Star Citizen Alpha 3.0 Detailed: "It's the Most Ambitious Game Ever"

Stiler said:
The comment you replied to first was talking about Vulkan being the savior of pc gaming, it has nothing to do with Linux. It's an API which works just fine on windows and comes with your video card drivers.

I don't know why you're bringing up Linux when no one brought it up...
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There is little to no reason to use Vulkan when you can use DX on Windows. The major advantage of Vulkan is that you can use it on a non-MS OS. Plus, if you know DPI's post history, his (rough) position is that Vulkan + Linux = the savior of PC gaming.

The only advantage I can see it providing is if MS puts future DX releases behind some awkward wall, like only supporting games that run via their weird app store. In which case, Vulkan on Windows will be worthwhile.
 
Flogger23m said:
There is little to no reason to use Vulkan when you can use DX on Windows. The major advantage of Vulkan is that you can use it on a non-MS OS. Plus, if you know DPI's post history, his (rough) position is that Vulkan + Linux = the savior of PC gaming.

The only advantage I can see it providing is if MS puts future DX releases behind some awkward wall, like only supporting games that run via their weird app store. In which case, Vulkan on Windows will be worthwhile.
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You've got that backwards. There is no reason to use DirectX when you can use Vulkan. The latter is open and platform agnostic, unbound by the fluctuating marketing whims of a platform and API dictator whose priorities have been everything *but* PC gamers for the past 17 years.

Obviously DX11 will reign supreme for now due to inertia, but as developers make design decisions for new pipelines, they're coming to the same conclusion the Star Citizen devs did: Why limit potential sales by handcuffing a game to an API that only works on one version of one platform (DX12/Windows10), when Vulkan works on any version of any platform, including Windows 7, 8, 8.1, 10, Linux and Android (and independently tested compatible with PS4)?

As for Linux, don't put words in my mouth - I never said Linux is the savior of PC gaming, but it's great that Vulkan also supports it, and it's a great hedge and the only leverage gamers have to keep Microsoft from continuing to take them completely for granted, especially as MS is hellbent on accelerating the platform's demise into a locked down, force-updated, telemetry cloud shitshow of UWP-jailed store apps.
 
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I'm a fan and I like what I see. Ultimately as long as the check boxes for my desires of what this game will deliver, then I'm down with it. There is so much to this game that it can be or appear to be overwhelming and people not thinking they can come through. I'm just taking a wait and see attitude. If it doesn't happen, then no worries.
 
DPI said:
You've got that backwards. There is no reason to use DirectX when you can use Vulkan. The latter is open and platform agnostic, unbound by the fluctuating marketing whims of a platform and API dictator whose priorities have been everything *but* PC gamers for the past 17 years.

Obviously DX11 will reign supreme for now due to inertia, but as developers make design decisions for new pipelines, they're coming to the same conclusion the Star Citizen devs did: Why limit potential sales by handcuffing a game to an API that only works on one version of one platform (DX12/Windows10), when Vulkan works on any version of any platform, including Windows 7, 8, 8.1, 10, Linux and Android (and independently tested compatible with PS4)?

As for Linux, don't put words in my mouth - I never said Linux is the savior of PC gaming, but it's great that Vulkan also supports it, and it's a great hedge and the only leverage gamers have to keep Microsoft from continuing to take them completely for granted, especially as MS is hellbent on accelerating the platform's demise into a locked down, force-updated, telemetry cloud shitshow of UWP-jailed store apps.
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You just did again. Platform agnostic is great, but what do you plan to use Vulkan based games on? Android? A PS4? And this helps with what? The only advantage this offers, since you're now claiming Linux is a moot point, is to run across older versions of Windows. Which is nice, but other programs will eventually drop supporter for older versions of Windows and you'd have to upgrade anyways to get the best support out of them. One of the major reasons to game on a PC is to do PC like functions, and that means using well supported, popular software. Something Linux struggles with.

Well I suppose we can always play Vulkan games on Android. Not like Google doesn't collector all kinds of info on you anyways. May as well use the far superior Windows alternative.
 
Flogger23m said:
You just did again. Platform agnostic is great, but what do you plan to use Vulkan based games on? Android? A PS4? And this helps with what? The only advantage this offers, since you're now claiming Linux is a moot point, is to run across older versions of Windows. Which is nice, but other programs will eventually drop supporter for older versions of Windows and you'd have to upgrade anyways to get the best support out of them. One of the major reasons to game on a PC is to do PC like functions, and that means using well supported, popular software. Something Linux struggles with.
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Windows 10 wont breach 30% of the desktop market until the 2020s at the current rate, if ever. Microsoft certainly does own the desktop for the time being, but Windows 8 and 10 have put them in a very weak position. I could see Google coming in with a Linux-based Chrome Pro OS around the time Windows 7 gets end-of-lifed and completely flipping things around.

I don't have particularly high hopes for Star Citizen, but its clearly part of a trend of game developers going with Vulkan rather than DX.
 
DeathFromBelow said:
Windows 10 wont breach 30% of the desktop market until the 2020s at the current rate, if ever. Microsoft certainly does own the desktop for the time being, but Windows 8 and 10 have put them in a very weak position. I could see Google coming in with a Linux-based Chrome Pro OS around the time Windows 7 gets end-of-lifed and completely flipping things around.

I don't have particularly high hopes for Star Citizen, but its clearly part of a trend of game developers going with Vulkan rather than DX.
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Huh? It's at 25% now and most businesses are just starting the migration process. I suspect it will be over 50% within 2 years. Source
 
Hisshadow said:
There is no reason they cant charge a monthly fee as World of Warcraft has done. I paid mine for 8yrs playing Warcraft, would be happy to pay a monthly sub for star citizen.
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Except they promised they wouldn't and took peoples money on the condition that they wouldn't.
 
Flogger23m said:
We don't know if it will be pay to win yet. If you spend $300 on a freighter you supposedly will get blown away by a combat oriented starter ship. But, maybe said freighter will end up having defenses so strong that no starter ship can take it down alone...

We'll see how it turns out.
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It's already P2W and will only become moreso. You think player x that wants to go mining and player y that loves being a space trucker aren't going to have massive advantages if they buy the top shelf $500+ dollar mining/trucker ships? Come on.
 
Lizard Testes said:
It's already P2W and will only become moreso. You think player x that wants to go mining and player y that loves being a space trucker aren't going to have massive advantages if they buy the top shelf $500+ dollar mining/trucker ships? Come on.
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I think *MY* who problem is this.....

Having a ship that can *mine* or *transport* defines a win?
Everyone saying it is P2W... can you please define the Winning Conditions you speak of?

(BTW - The starting ships -Aurora/Mustang- have both Combat and Trucker capability)
 
Axehandler said:
I think *MY* who problem is this.....

Having a ship that can *mine* or *transport* defines a win?
Everyone saying it is P2W... can you please define the Winning Conditions you speak of?

(BTW - The starting ships -Aurora/Mustang- have both Combat and Trucker capability)
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How do you "win" EverQuest? You can't. It's right in the name. You're supposed to play it forever. That doesn't mean it can't be P2W. If the word win offends you just translate it to "Pay 2 Massive Advantage."

I didn't say having a ship that can mine and transport defines a win. Having a ship that can do it 10 or 20 or 100x more efficiently for $500 would though.
 
Lizard Testes said:
How do you "win" EverQuest? You can't. It's right in the name. You're supposed to play it forever. That doesn't mean it can't be P2W. If the word win offends you just translate it to "Pay 2 Massive Advantage."

I didn't say having a ship that can mine and transport defines a win. Having a ship that can do it 10 or 20 or 100x more efficiently for $500 would though.
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Not sure why you think I'm offended.. Just honestly asking questions and stating my opinion.

You keep saying "Pay to win.. or Pay for a bigger advantage"
What advantage when you fully think about it.. does a Bigger Ship get you? (Remember... there are no character stats)
Respectfully, other then bragging rights.. I think the opposite is true..

Dig-In....

*IF* I Owned the Biggest ship IN-Game when the game starts.. (I don't BTW)...
Lets Breakdown whats needed.

A Large *PAID* crew.
A Huge Fuel Tank
Lots of ammo.
Lots of Missiles.
Repairs.
A HUGE target on you (who wouldn't want to try to take you down?)
You already own the best ship.. What do you aim for now?
Getting Bored Since you don't have any Goals.
Can't fly this LARGE ship since I can't afford to.....
.....

I have a starter ship, yea I need to make money (everyone does) but at least it's affordable to fly my ship around and I have goals,
I can try to earn the money for that next large ship with a goal of that larger ship someone tossed 500$ at.
Heck I could probably visit that ship and decide I don't really like it and then I didn't waste my money on it!

Axe

P.S... Loved My druid in Everquest..
 
It's been nothing but scripted demos, for years now. They swear all this shit will be usable, but it never will be.

There are a lot of people who design crap software, but swear they are geniuses. With no management oversight, you are left to wonder how many of these people really know what they are doing.

Trust me, I know I DON'T know what I'm doing, as far as large-scale software design goes. I know in my software development group project, our course reservation system was so buggy it crashed during our final presentation because someone went off-script. We weren't the only group with such issues - good software design is a rare skill that takes years to perfect.

But CIG has it easy, because they don't publish the videos until it's perfect. So every fucking demo looks like it's flawless, even if the software itself is a buggy pile of shit. This is the reason I poke fun at you idiots who are constantly posting "Around the verse" bullshit. HELL, you don't even know if that in-engine, or just panning about the model in Maya.

Pretty 3D renders just mean they have good artists. It takes a helluva lot more brainpower than that to put it all together nicely in a real 3D universe, with real physics and real game-play. More likely, it's a hackjob like my software engineering project...and every time you fix something, you break two other things.
 
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Xaeos said:
I've been a backer of Star Citizen since pretty close to the beginning and am happy with its progression. The release of this roadmap and the soon-to-arrive (Pre-) Alpha 3.0 is a significant step forward in this progression and one that will introduce a number of features that to date have not been in any public builds such as space-to-planetary landings (on in this case, moons), traversal of "open world" planetoids on foot, and the first iteration of the Cargo system. If this sounds interesting to anyone and wants more info on the game, would like some help getting started so they can play the Alpha now and be ready for 3.0 when it arrives, or has some questions, I'd be happy to assist. There are a lot of misconceptions about the game itself, its development, and especially its monetization
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Serious Questions:
Is it a game now/will it be a game then?
It sounds like a plays more like a technical demo of sorts.
Is it a game in the sense of you play around and interact with people at least?
I mean maybe doesn't have an 'economy' (I get why it wouldn't yet) but can you do stuff around even it it doesn't count so to speak?
 
Lizard Testes said:
It's already P2W and will only become moreso. You think player x that wants to go mining and player y that loves being a space trucker aren't going to have massive advantages if they buy the top shelf $500+ dollar mining/trucker ships? Come on.
Click to expand...

First of all unlike most "P2W" or even "F2P" titles, those same exact ships will be available in-game. It isn't like those mining ships and space trucks will not be able to be acquired by play; and by that I don't mean the normal F2P swindle of "Hurrdurr you can buy it exclusively from another player that paid real money for it if they put it up on the auction house" nonsense . If you want a Hull E (the biggest pure "space truck" cargo hauler around, which is probably better compared to a massive container ship at that point) and/or Orion (the large, multi-crew mining ship) you can buy them in-game with exclusively in-game funds. Let me take a moment to mention how rare this is with regards to general MMO (even some crowdfunded) development. With the exception of a handful of cosmetic items granted to a small amount of early backers, just about everything is available for game currency, from capital ships to rarely granted "fluff" or cosmetic items.

Secondly, as has been stated in the past that when the game releases with a release version of the public universe (that will not be wiped etc)., the plan is no longer to sell ships directly at all (aside from perhaps the starters that may come with a game key) If CIG goes back on this ardent fans and critics alike will, will good justification, lambast them. Besides, I don't think CIG will do so because of design reasons. It isn't possible to build the kind of game they want if person X can simply pay for the best ships - it will literally destroy the in-game economy which is unlike any other MMO to date in its depth. For instance, there is a completely simulated material custody chain that branches out into everything from the economy to the quest opportunities. This means that for there to be ships sitting at the ship dealer showroom, those ships need to be built in a factory, out of components that are built in different factories, out of materials that are crafted in refineries, which are stocked with raw materials that are gathered from various sources. If some pirate group basically locks up the shipping lanes that stops the cheapest (or worst, only) source of ore X from being delivered to the refineries significantly, that will affect every step down the line like jacking up prices of refined materials which may mean that there may be fewer ships available for sale at higher prices at that original dealership! Not to mention this will create missions from bounties from the refinery to figure out who's impeding the delivery, cargo run commissions that grow in size to entice people to run the blockade, and much more. All of this can't happen properly if they have to figure some amount of the population will simply be able to "magically" pull ships out of the ether because they spent real money on it post launch. The only way to possibly compensate for this would be even more egregious and would be unlikely to work such as A) having real money pricing affected by these in game things and B) forcing people to wait for a ship to be available "properly" by in game mechanics being built even if they just paid real money for it. - and either or both of these would be disasters for a number of reasons.

This is to say nothing for the fact that CIG knows that if they take these kinds of steps or maintain sales post-launch in this way, much of the faith the community has in them will disappear overnight. I would be a horrific blow to the long term viability of their title - and a game like this is meant for the long haul. The fact is they have plans for post-launch monetization that are in no way pay-to-win. Last I checked it breaks down like this... First, they will sell game keys and accounts. Self explanatory. You need a key to play. Second, they will sell traditional expansion packs, especially for Squadron 42 the single player/small-group-co-op experience, not unlike Wing Commander and LucasArts flight sims had expansions back in the day. Public universe "expansion packs' haven't been ruled out, but there hasn't been much discussion as to how they could work, but its still worth mentioning. Third, they'll sell account services, not unlike how World of Warcraft sells transfers, renames and whatnot. One we know of is the ability to buy "custom" NPC slots. There will be tons of free NPCs in the world with their own stats, specs etc.. but if you want to build one from scratch to be the gender, appearance, and general background (their skills will be no better than any other NPC,) and to be able to set this NPC as a "successor" identity when your current avatar goes through permadeath (instead of creating a successor after the fact - read "Death of A Spaceman" for the original idea of how SC's death system will work), that will be an inexpensive "custom, able to be a full player character almost" slot. Lastly, the only "direct' in-game resource purchased with real money discussed was a heavily regulated and capped currency purchase system. That is to say, users could buy a certain limited amount of in-game credits with real money, as a way to stave off external (ie goldspammer) sale platforms. Last I read anything about this, it will be heavily capped on a monthly or weekly basis, the currency will not be available to trade in certain ways but only to be used for "gold sink" transactions (to keep people from exploiting the system, such as setting up dummy accounts and having them buy currency, then pool it on the main account), and is designed to be a relatively meager purchasing power; the kind of thing that will let you take care of your in-game bills even if you decided not to play that month and didn't have any savings (ie hangar fees, insurance fees and all the other game systems that require in-game money), but not make a major purchase like a ship etc. So ultimately they have some diverse plans for revenue post launch, but none of these are "pay to win" and so far they don't even seem to be the kind of "Pay 2 look different" cosmetic item mall nonsense I hate in other MMOs.

For a great many reasons, Star Citizen won't "work" if it is pay-2-win (or pay for a massive advantage). All evidence thus far suggests they're trying to do something different and it won't be possible to make that happen, much less deal with the PR fallout, if they make a monetization system that is just like everyone else's, much less one that is pay-for-advantage. The entire point of Star Citizen is to push the boundaries of immersion and fulfill the vision that continues to compel so many players to contribute. Their funding has always been derived from doing something different than the rest of the marketplace and I can't imagine they would be willing to risk the success of such a momentous project by allowing a "Pay-for-advantage" or even a "Pay for exclusivity" system.
 
Xaeos said:
First of all unlike most "P2W" or even "F2P" titles, those same exact ships will be available in-game. It isn't like those mining ships and space trucks will not be able to be acquired by play; and by that I don't mean the normal F2P swindle of "Hurrdurr you can buy it exclusively from another player that paid real money for it if they put it up on the auction house" nonsense . If you want a Hull E (the biggest pure "space truck" cargo hauler around, which is probably better compared to a massive container ship at that point) and/or Orion (the large, multi-crew mining ship) you can buy them in-game with exclusively in-game funds. Let me take a moment to mention how rare this is with regards to general MMO (even some crowdfunded) development. With the exception of a handful of cosmetic items granted to a small amount of early backers, just about everything is available for game currency, from capital ships to rarely granted "fluff" or cosmetic items.

Secondly, as has been stated in the past that when the game releases with a release version of the public universe (that will not be wiped etc)., the plan is no longer to sell ships directly at all (aside from perhaps the starters that may come with a game key) If CIG goes back on this ardent fans and critics alike will, will good justification, lambast them. Besides, I don't think CIG will do so because of design reasons. It isn't possible to build the kind of game they want if person X can simply pay for the best ships - it will literally destroy the in-game economy which is unlike any other MMO to date in its depth. For instance, there is a completely simulated material custody chain that branches out into everything from the economy to the quest opportunities. This means that for there to be ships sitting at the ship dealer showroom, those ships need to be built in a factory, out of components that are built in different factories, out of materials that are crafted in refineries, which are stocked with raw materials that are gathered from various sources. If some pirate group basically locks up the shipping lanes that stops the cheapest (or worst, only) source of ore X from being delivered to the refineries significantly, that will affect every step down the line like jacking up prices of refined materials which may mean that there may be fewer ships available for sale at higher prices at that original dealership! Not to mention this will create missions from bounties from the refinery to figure out who's impeding the delivery, cargo run commissions that grow in size to entice people to run the blockade, and much more. All of this can't happen properly if they have to figure some amount of the population will simply be able to "magically" pull ships out of the ether because they spent real money on it post launch. The only way to possibly compensate for this would be even more egregious and would be unlikely to work such as A) having real money pricing affected by these in game things and B) forcing people to wait for a ship to be available "properly" by in game mechanics being built even if they just paid real money for it. - and either or both of these would be disasters for a number of reasons.

This is to say nothing for the fact that CIG knows that if they take these kinds of steps or maintain sales post-launch in this way, much of the faith the community has in them will disappear overnight. I would be a horrific blow to the long term viability of their title - and a game like this is meant for the long haul. The fact is they have plans for post-launch monetization that are in no way pay-to-win. Last I checked it breaks down like this... First, they will sell game keys and accounts. Self explanatory. You need a key to play. Second, they will sell traditional expansion packs, especially for Squadron 42 the single player/small-group-co-op experience, not unlike Wing Commander and LucasArts flight sims had expansions back in the day. Public universe "expansion packs' haven't been ruled out, but there hasn't been much discussion as to how they could work, but its still worth mentioning. Third, they'll sell account services, not unlike how World of Warcraft sells transfers, renames and whatnot. One we know of is the ability to buy "custom" NPC slots. There will be tons of free NPCs in the world with their own stats, specs etc.. but if you want to build one from scratch to be the gender, appearance, and general background (their skills will be no better than any other NPC,) and to be able to set this NPC as a "successor" identity when your current avatar goes through permadeath (instead of creating a successor after the fact - read "Death of A Spaceman" for the original idea of how SC's death system will work), that will be an inexpensive "custom, able to be a full player character almost" slot. Lastly, the only "direct' in-game resource purchased with real money discussed was a heavily regulated and capped currency purchase system. That is to say, users could buy a certain limited amount of in-game credits with real money, as a way to stave off external (ie goldspammer) sale platforms. Last I read anything about this, it will be heavily capped on a monthly or weekly basis, the currency will not be available to trade in certain ways but only to be used for "gold sink" transactions (to keep people from exploiting the system, such as setting up dummy accounts and having them buy currency, then pool it on the main account), and is designed to be a relatively meager purchasing power; the kind of thing that will let you take care of your in-game bills even if you decided not to play that month and didn't have any savings (ie hangar fees, insurance fees and all the other game systems that require in-game money), but not make a major purchase like a ship etc. So ultimately they have some diverse plans for revenue post launch, but none of these are "pay to win" and so far they don't even seem to be the kind of "Pay 2 look different" cosmetic item mall nonsense I hate in other MMOs.

For a great many reasons, Star Citizen won't "work" if it is pay-2-win (or pay for a massive advantage). All evidence thus far suggests they're trying to do something different and it won't be possible to make that happen, much less deal with the PR fallout, if they make a monetization system that is just like everyone else's, much less one that is pay-for-advantage. The entire point of Star Citizen is to push the boundaries of immersion and fulfill the vision that continues to compel so many players to contribute. Their funding has always been derived from doing something different than the rest of the marketplace and I can't imagine they would be willing to risk the success of such a momentous project by allowing a "Pay-for-advantage" or even a "Pay for exclusivity" system.
Click to expand...
Regardless of all that, which sounds like arguments for the future.. how does it play now?
Does it play like a series of tech demos, or is there more like a game already there?
Honestly I'm thinking if this thing right now plays like a series of tech demos, I would tend to think this is a long con.
I've tried to get an idea of that is there right now, by googling it, but didn't get anything that gives me an idea, I guess I would have to buy some ships or something and look into it myself, but I don't think I will do that.
 
Uvaman2 said:
Serious Questions:
Is it a game now/will it be a game then?
It sounds like a plays more like a technical demo of sorts.
Is it a game in the sense of you play around and interact with people at least?
I mean maybe doesn't have an 'economy' (I get why it wouldn't yet) but can you do stuff around even it it doesn't count so to speak?
Click to expand...

At this point, it is in a continuously developed and updated Alpha (or technically, pre-alpha by some definitions) state. It is nowhere near the "full" game as of yet, as many game systems are still being implemented. Even when Patch 3.0 arrives, it will not be a full, complete game either but it will be another alpha iteration forward, adding more game systems including some of the greatly anticipated ones I noted like planetary (moon, in this case) landing, the Cargo system ( check this out for an early design document of Cargo to get an idea for some features on the way. - https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/engineering/14677-Cargo-Interaction - note this was written a long time ago so things of course may change in the process ), and more. However, this doesn't mean that there isn't a playable "game" there at the moment.

At the moment there are a variety of ways to play, both single and multiplayer. You can start in your Hangar (single player), in which you can customize, configure and explore your ships (even some that are hangar ready, but not flight ready). From there, "Arena Commander" and "Star Marine" modes are designed as virtual "games within the game world", which offer space flight and on-foot FPS combat respectively. In Arena Commander it is a good place to practice space flight and combat, learning how each (currently available) ship flies and the flight model for SC in general. There are also various "bot matches" you can set up against varying waves of CPU opponents getting more aggressive as time goes on. There is even a ship racing course you can play if you wish. Note all of these modes can be played cooperatively (ie co-op vs the bot swarm) and competitively ( PVP dogfighting). Star Marine offers FPS style combat on the other hand, and can be played with and against other players in a variety of match types. There is also what some call 'Crusader" or the "Mini Public Universe" - this is a tiny slice of the game that allows testing of core dynamics, multiplayer and online. There's lots to do here and its always expanding, from walking through shops on the starbase for new weapons, equipment, or clothing, to places to pick up missions/contracts, to actually flying off into the local systems. One time you'll need to dogfight against smugglers perhaps, another time you'll need to find and fix a satellite (which requires an EVA to get into it), sometimes you'll be in combat on foot versus pirates, or perhaps you just want to joyride around the base crewing one of the duty stations on a friend (or random playerr, who invites you)''s multi-crew ship. This is just a very limited overview but there's really quite a good amount to do especially for a true pre-alpha. So long as you can understand and tolerate things one expect of an alpha in development title (ie unfinished systems, lack of polish and optimization) you can enjoy playing immediately.

So yes, there is certainly stuff to play. Many game systems are not yet in as of yet (ie stellar cartography and jump point scanning, mining, and the full experience of non-gunnery duty stations on multi-crew ships for instance), but they will be added in patches like we've seen thus far and bigger jumps like the coming 3.0. In addition, the frequent updates (both in terms of communication/announcement and the game itself) provides evidence of progress which should be comforting to many. Right now if you want to play around and interact with people you're in a great place - that's what everyone is doing because it doesnt' "count" so to speak, so you don't have to worry that that crashing your big Starfarer fuel ship into a friendly dock will result in game-system penalties and having to wait for it to be replaced through the Insurance system;; you just spawn one and away you go! Playing online is encouraged and in the "mini public universe" it is the only setting, so worry not! Remember it is still technically testing an incomplete project but there's the potential for a lot of enjoyment alone or with others, if the game systems and features are to your liking.

Uvaman2 said:
Regardless of all that, which sounds like arguments for the future.. how does it play now?
Does it play like a series of tech demos, or is there more like a game already there?
Honestly I'm thinking if this thing right now plays like a series of tech demos, I would tend to think this is a long con.
I've tried to get an idea of that is there right now, by googling it, but didn't get anything that gives me an idea, I guess I would have to buy some ships or something and look into it myself, but I don't think I will do that.
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All that previous explanation was in reference to another poster and sought to provide some info to those who think the game "Pay to Win" which, at least as of current business plans as I am aware of them, is a misconception. Sometimes its an understandable one because people see others spending lots of money on game items and in the past this is usually because the game is structured in a way to benefit "whales" (ie most Korean MMORPGs ), but Star Citizen is quite a bit different instead. That said...

As I posted above, it plays now as a well progressing alpha and with each content patch shows a little more of the total picture of what the game is becoming. It shows as more than tech demos in my experience, especially with the institution of the "mini public universe", as well as the Arena Commander + Star Marine match-based game modes giving an alternate experience. There are Leaderboards on the site by the way, showcasing some of the most successful individuals and Organizations (ie "guilds") in various game modes and illustrating that many enjoy the game at its current state.

As I said, there is still a lot to add to the game before it reaches "1.0 ready" or even "1.0 feature/system complete", but I think there is enough evidence to show it isn't a scam/con etc. The reason I personally am so interested in Star Citizen is the depth and intricacy of the game systems - I like the idea that someone could literally take a job as a long-haul civilian transport pilot (or even start a a flight attendant to pay for flight certification to become a pilot etc) for instance - https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/14804-Design-Civilian-Passenger-Transport . Now realize that is all going on as one part of a shipboard experience, where there are plenty of other NPCs and players onboard, and now consider that this is all happening alongside a pitched space battle against a pirate fleet in another system, a crew scooping fuel from a gas giant to refine onboard and sell somewhere else, a hacker stealing VIP data etc... and I know that it is going to take awhile to build. As long as I continue to see progress I'm content because to me getting it done right is more important than done fast. So when I play/test the alpha, I look at it that way and think back to how far it has come since I first sat in the Hangar Module 1.0 way back when; there is a ways to go, but from this point on there is a lot of fun to be had in the meantime on the journey!

Note you don't need to buy any ships to play it for yourself. There are frequent "Fly Free" promotions where CIG allows even those without a game account key to test/play. Create a free account now if you like and then you'll be ready when one starts. Oh and let me reiterate you don't need to "buy ships" in order to get into the game, or even own the "full game". All you really need is to have a single Game Package (which comes with a starter ship right now) that has an account key for Star Citizen (listed as "Star Citizen digital download" in package concepts ) to have full access to the alpha test. Packages that include account keys cost around $45 to start (there are also promotions and specials sometimes) and serve as the only required purchase you need to have full access to Star Citizen, including post release.

Note that if you want the single player / small-co-op game "Squadron 42", which is akin to a more in depth Wing Commander or old LucasArts (Xwing, TIE Fighter, etc..) story mode campaign - an independent game yet linked with the Star Citizen public universe (ie Play SQ42, your pilot comes into SC with reserve pay from the military you served in SQ42, along with some other benefits etc)., you'll need a key for it too, which you can buy as an add-on if you already have a basic game package.

Hope this helps so far... will edit again...
 
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Xaeos said:
At this point, it is in a continuously developed and updated Alpha (or technically, pre-alpha by some definitions) state. It is nowhere near the "full" game as of yet, as many game systems are still being implemented. Even when Patch 3.0 arrives, it will not be a full, complete game either but it will be another alpha iteration forward, adding more game systems including some of the greatly anticipated ones I noted like planetary (moon, in this case) landing, the Cargo system ( check this out for an early design document of Cargo to get an idea for some features on the way. - https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/engineering/14677-Cargo-Interaction - note this was written a long time ago so things of course may change in the process ), and more. However, this doesn't mean that there isn't a playable "game" there at the moment.

At the moment there are a variety of ways to play, both single and multiplayer. You can start in your Hangar (single player), in which you can customize, configure and explore your ships (even some that are hangar ready, but not flight ready). From there, "Arena Commander" and "Star Marine" modes are designed as virtual "games within the game world", which offer space flight and on-foot FPS combat respectively. In Arena Commander it is a good place to practice space flight and combat, learning how each (currently available) ship flies and the flight model for SC in general. There are also various "bot matches" you can set up against varying waves of CPU opponents getting more aggressive as time goes on. There is even a ship racing course you can play if you wish. Note all of these modes can be played cooperatively (ie co-op vs the bot swarm) and competitively ( PVP dogfighting). Star Marine offers FPS style combat on the other hand, and can be played with and against other players in a variety of match types. There is also what some call 'Crusader" or the "Mini Public Universe" - this is a tiny slice of the game that allows testing of core dynamics, multiplayer and online. There's lots to do here and its always expanding, from walking through shops on the starbase for new weapons, equipment, or clothing, to places to pick up missions/contracts, to actually flying off into the local systems. One time you'll need to dogfight against smugglers perhaps, another time you'll need to find and fix a satellite (which requires an EVA to get into it), sometimes you'll be in combat on foot versus pirates, or perhaps you just want to joyride around the base crewing one of the duty stations on a friend (or random playerr, who invites you)''s multi-crew ship. This is just a very limited overview but there's really quite a good amount to do especially for a true pre-alpha. So long as you can understand and tolerate things one expect of an alpha in development title (ie unfinished systems, lack of polish and optimization) you can enjoy playing immediately.

So yes, there is certainly stuff to play. Many game systems are not yet in as of yet (ie stellar cartography and jump point scanning, mining, and the full experience of non-gunnery duty stations on multi-crew ships for instance), but they will be added in patches like we've seen thus far and bigger jumps like the coming 3.0. In addition, the frequent updates (both in terms of communication/announcement and the game itself) provides evidence of progress which should be comforting to many. Right now if you want to play around and interact with people you're in a great place - that's what everyone is doing because it doesnt' "count" so to speak, so you don't have to worry that that crashing your big Starfarer fuel ship into a friendly dock will result in game-system penalties and having to wait for it to be replaced through the Insurance system;; you just spawn one and away you go! Playing online is encouraged and in the "mini public universe" it is the only setting, so worry not! Remember it is still technically testing an incomplete project but there's the potential for a lot of enjoyment alone or with others, if the game systems and features are to your liking.

Edit: Saw your second post, working on an update to address it...
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Don't worry you already gave me more than what I found on google.
It does sound like much more than tech demos, so I wouldn't think its a long con.
I may buy a ship after all.
BTW I was serious in asking, Its fun to see the crossfire among supporters and non supporters to be honest.
But, I decided to look into the game, I mean like seriously.. the concerns that are presented it being like vaporware or whatever, I guess are serious too, but it sounds like there are plenty of key parts there.. simulators that actually works means the mechanics are really there already and such.
 
Uvaman2 said:
Don't worry you already gave me more than what I found on google.
It does sound like much more than tech demos, so I wouldn't think its a long con.
I may buy a ship after all.
BTW I was serious in asking, Its fun to see the crossfire among supporters and non supporters to be honest.
But, I decided to look into the game, I mean like seriously.. the concerns that are presented it being like vaporware or whatever, I guess are serious too, but it sounds like there are plenty of key parts there.. simulators that actually works means the mechanics are really there already and such.
Click to expand...

Happy to be of help!

If there's anything else you wish to know please don't hesitate to ask, here on via private message. There's a lot of discussion and info on the game out there, much of which is outdated, incorrect, or focused on controversy/clickbait (created by both supporters and opposition) . Some of the better places to get frequently updated info and community conversation are the official website - https://robertsspaceindustries.com/ - Including its Forums and Chat (Fun fact: they have an amazing built in guild/Organization hosting system and integrated social system For instance their chat is based on XMPP so you can use any Jabber/XMPP client you wish to connect.), the Star Citizen sub-Reddit at https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/, and a few others (I'm blanking on the location of an unofficial "guidebook" that is really comprehensive), not to mention there is a thread right here on [H] in the PC Games forum where locals discuss the title. There are some very knowledgeable regulars who may be able to assist.

I'd advise to create an account on the official site listed above - its completely free ; you'll need one to use the forums/community and play the game no matter if that is during a fly free promo or if you end up buying the game. When you sign up, feel free to use my referral code - STAR-NFTL-9K7P - it will grant you 5000 UEC (aka the main in-game currency used for what will one day be persistent items, as opposed to REC which is used for temporary "virtual" items). Disclaimer: The only benefit I gain from use of my referral code is in-game widgets and whatnot, no financial compensation etc

Oh and if you decide you want to purchase an account key, we on [H[ may be able to save you a little money. I can't guarantee because I have to check my personal packages, but I know there are several of us with long-standing accounts that at some time in the past, may have purchased a Starter Package or similar back in 2012 - 2015 when it included both SQ42 and SC keys at a lower price aka "Legacy" packages. Buying from another player like this is simple, rather similar to sending a Steam Gift, and from a [H] member you have Heatware and reputation to validate the transaction. If I don't have anything available, I'll see if I can point you to some of the others on the site who might have one. Just let me know if this seems worthwhile!

P.S. - It may be helpful to know that at time of this writing, the Star Citizen alpha 2.6.3 take up about 30gb of installed space, for anyone who wants to play and needs to make room on their SSDs.
 
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Uvaman2 said:
Don't worry you already gave me more than what I found on google.
It does sound like much more than tech demos, so I wouldn't think its a long con.
.
Click to expand...

It's not a long-con. Chris Roberts is thoroughly convinced he can create this universe, and he has hired people who are convinced of the same. You know, like the idiots who worked for Theranos and their massive number of investors who believed every word out of the mouth of the charismatic CEO. In this money-flooded market, you don't need a business plan, only hopes and dreams.

Even though he has yet to show he has that capacity for game management, people like Xaeos give him blind faith. While Chris Roberts has shown recently that he doesn't care about the players, by simultaneously releasing the incredibly broken 2.6.2 update, and closing the Star Citizen Forums and forcing everyone to move to a new broken messaging system.

This combination has cut-down their daily game players to only a few hundred, which is nowhere near enough to maintain a persistent universe. But hey, the true believers are still there, trying to convince you that the ship hasn't been sinking for years.

I'd wait for a free play weekend so you can find out just how buggy the game is, before you invest. They already had one in February.
 
whateverer said:
It's not a long-con. Chris Roberts is thoroughly convinced he can create this universe, and he has hired people who are convinced of the same. You know, like the idiots who worked for Theranos and their massive number of investors who believed every word out of the mouth of the charismatic CEO. In this money-flooded market, you don't need a business plan, only hopes and dreams.

Even though he has yet to show he has that capacity for game management, people like Xaeos give him blind faith. While Chris Roberts has shown recently that he doesn't care about the players, by simultaneously releasing the incredibly broken 2.6.2 update, and closing the Star Citizen Forums and forcing everyone to move to a new broken messaging system.

This combination has cut-down their daily game players to only a few hundred, which is nowhere near enough to maintain a persistent universe. But hey, the true believers are still there, trying to convince you that the ship hasn't been sinking for years.

I'd wait for a free play weekend so you can find out just how buggy the game is, before you invest. They already had one in February.
Click to expand...
See for me it's even more simple. How many times has a game promised to basically cure cancer and when it comes out it actuality gives you cancer? We've all been burned by games either through publishers or shit games themselves. Why in this one case is it going to be different. Feature creep is mentioned with this game a lot.

I've been told too many times that a game will make me breakfast, cut inches off my waistline and even fold my laundry. When they deliver the product they promised with the features they've decided on I'll be a believer. The problem going forward I imagine is that if features get cut or aren't released with the launch of the game we'll have two major issues.
1) it'll piss off core supporters who wanted that feature
2) the fans and Roberts will promise to put it into a patch or expansion So realistically these arguments will never end.

Shit, I may have just roadmapped SC threads for the next 2 years, if the game ever gets released.

Also I loved Everquest too Prexus was the best and I loved multi boxing. That's a sad memory road to walk down.
 
Does anyone know of a company that builds these electric cars, tunneling equipment, power cells, spaceships, and photo-voltaic panels. Sure they don't always work the best, nor are they very popular, but the company is making "groundbreaking" technological advances. They have a huge customer, almost cult like, following and are a demonstrative company that is as forward thinking as it gets. Have you seen those exponential graphs of (time x technology) these are the companies that are responsible for this growth in humanity, a change toward progress from tradition. Those that make the claims of an apples to oranges analogy, I must direct you to the quote, "Art challenges technology, technology inspires art" - John Lasseter, "A Pixar Story" These are both directly related to each other and must not be easily dismissed as frivolity.

Of course the companies can go belly up, or just take the money and run in a cash grab, living a life of luxury, but why would they? This is CIG's first IP, and only IP, their baby, their "Half-Life", their "Roadster". Should they do something wrong, they would never live it down, and will surely (Delta) patch until the problems are rectified. Should they do something that lasts decades in the industry with this IP, they would be the next gold standard in development. This is the answer to EA, COD, Ubisoft, Assassins's Creed, Nintendo, Mario, and all of the other Pump-and-Dump cyclical games/studios/developers out there. Let's return to the good old days of innovation, lets go back to before we began regressing, lets learn from the past, and improve what needs improvement, like Crowbar Collective's BlackMesa to Valve's Half-Life, Nightdive Studios' System Shock remake of the same title. I am just saying, Let's Do It Right, and let's Do It Right Now.

Yes the game is a pay to win, you can pay a group of people from some overseas country to play the other 20 people to pilot/crew you'r own personal squadron. I'm sure the Korean's would love nothing more than for the popularization of Star Citizen, "Power Players" to get you through whatever GoonSwarm equivalent org there will be, and yes this option is only available to the very rich and thus a Pay to Win. If this is what is stopping you from getting in your own Aurora/Mustang, trying a free flight, or even going shipless and naked in the game crewing a friend's ship, then yes this is not the game for you, and I'm (not) sorry to say, you'r probably not going to do that well in the real world either until you understand a little more as this goes beyond Psychological Depression and Victimization. For the rest of us progressive's, spend what you want, save the rest, and let's make this verse our reality until CIG or their followup independent developer lets us know where they will be taking us next, because I for one am excited to be in this exact moment of history in the making.

Who else is with me, and if you happen to not be, please make your arguments favoring more Logos than Pathos in the future so I may more effectively form a rebuttal and we can all avoid an arbitrary squabble.
 
No one needs this game. At it's core, people just want to have fun when playing a game, not live a second life.
These people are trying to build an alternate reality. No wonder the entire company is detached from reality.

Money pledged: $0
Time in game: 0

I don't buy a game until it's released and reviewed.
 
opfreak said:
SC is like a cult church for geeks. Or those TV preachers that claim then can heal all your ills, just send them some money.
Click to expand...
Not once have they applied for tax exempt status, nor have they said they can faith heal you. However, for the game to fulfill it's promises, it has mandated a fee of $45.00 (USD) to play, unless you want to play for limited duration when they run the, "Free Fly" specials, and in those cases, they aren't asking for any money. If you do want to wait until all of these criticisms are forgotten and the game releases before you purchase, you would be far wiser than most of the people on this thread making grand declarations of negativity, and you will always be free to wait until the game is released before you feel compelled to make an entry into the verse. The biggest thing right now, is that most modern games you can buy have a terrible quality of game play, with the majority of them being console/mobile exclusives. I don't think I purchased a single game in the last two years because none of them were worth it for me. (I take it back, I did buy Overwatch when it was on pre-release sale for $10 off) I must have gotten lucky on that one too for some reason.
 
Tactical_Strike said:
Does anyone know of a company that builds these electric cars, tunneling equipment, power cells, spaceships, and photo-voltaic panels. Sure they don't always work the best, nor are they very popular, but the company is making "groundbreaking" technological advances. They have a huge customer, almost cult like, following and are a demonstrative company that is as forward thinking as it gets. Have you seen those exponential graphs of (time x technology) these are the companies that are responsible for this growth in humanity, a change toward progress from tradition. Those that make the claims of an apples to oranges analogy, I must direct you to the quote, "Art challenges technology, technology inspires art" - John Lasseter, "A Pixar Story" These are both directly related to each other and must not be easily dismissed as frivolity.

Of course the companies can go belly up, or just take the money and run in a cash grab, living a life of luxury, but why would they? This is CIG's first IP, and only IP, their baby, their "Half-Life", their "Roadster". Should they do something wrong, they would never live it down, and will surely (Delta) patch until the problems are rectified. Should they do something that lasts decades in the industry with this IP, they would be the next gold standard in development. This is the answer to EA, COD, Ubisoft, Assassins's Creed, Nintendo, Mario, and all of the other Pump-and-Dump cyclical games/studios/developers out there. Let's return to the good old days of innovation, lets go back to before we began regressing, lets learn from the past, and improve what needs improvement, like Crowbar Collective's BlackMesa to Valve's Half-Life, Nightdive Studios' System Shock remake of the same title. I am just saying, Let's Do It Right, and let's Do It Right Now.

Yes the game is a pay to win, you can pay a group of people from some overseas country to play the other 20 people to pilot/crew you'r own personal squadron. I'm sure the Korean's would love nothing more than for the popularization of Star Citizen, "Power Players" to get you through whatever GoonSwarm equivalent org there will be, and yes this option is only available to the very rich and thus a Pay to Win. If this is what is stopping you from getting in your own Aurora/Mustang, trying a free flight, or even going shipless and naked in the game crewing a friend's ship, then yes this is not the game for you, and I'm (not) sorry to say, you'r probably not going to do that well in the real world either until you understand a little more as this goes beyond Psychological Depression and Victimization. For the rest of us progressive's, spend what you want, save the rest, and let's make this verse our reality until CIG or their followup independent developer lets us know where they will be taking us next, because I for one am excited to be in this exact moment of history in the making.

Who else is with me, and if you happen to not be, please make your arguments favoring more Logos than Pathos in the future so I may more effectively form a rebuttal and we can all avoid an arbitrary squabble.
Click to expand...
Logos and then outright tried to state that you won't do well in the real world without supporting star citizen. Someone drank the koolaid.

Who has the strongest punch in the world?
Jim Jones, he knocked out 900 people.
 
I pledged this forever ago for $25-$40 (honestly can't remember). I've installed it a few times to see what the progress looks like but not spent more than 30min on it. Hoping 3.0 alpha will be enough of a "game" to be worth putting time into. The people throwing hundreds at the game are fools though. The other projects I've backed from KS / similar models I've been mostly happy with (except Ouya, I just wanted a damn stream box when I backed it...couldn't even do that effectively, POS).
 
Tactical_Strike said:
Not once have they applied for tax exempt status, nor have they said they can faith heal you. However, for the game to fulfill it's promises, it has mandated a fee of $45.00 (USD) to play, unless you want to play for limited duration when they run the, "Free Fly" specials, and in those cases, they aren't asking for any money. If you do want to wait until all of these criticisms are forgotten and the game releases before you purchase, you would be far wiser than most of the people on this thread making grand declarations of negativity, and you will always be free to wait until the game is released before you feel compelled to make an entry into the verse. The biggest thing right now, is that most modern games you can buy have a terrible quality of game play, with the majority of them being console/mobile exclusives. I don't think I purchased a single game in the last two years because none of them were worth it for me. (I take it back, I did buy Overwatch when it was on pre-release sale for $10 off) I must have gotten lucky on that one too for some reason.
Click to expand...

I understand if you'd rather be a full-time whale. There's no convincing you otherwise, I just wish you'd stop proselytizing like Chris Roberts is the Second Coming ®. He hasn't delivered anything aside from a buggy tech demo yet. At least when they preach about Jesus, they say "he died for your sins." What has Chris Roberts done for you lately, aside from releasing a broken patch and officially breaking the official RSI Forums "for your own good," so you come here to vent?

I'll happily play Star Citizen once Chris satisfies the list of goals on his original kickstarter, which Chris has conveniently buried from his original kickstarter page. This "helpful" link goes nowhere, but the True Believers don't complain since real measurement of progress is sacrilege.

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comprehensive-stretch-goals/

We might be waiting another decade. that's all I'm saying. I think I'd die of boredom before then.
 
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whateverer said:
I understand if you'd rather be a full-time whale. There's no convincing you otherwise, I just wish you'd stop proselytizing like Chris Roberts is the Second Coming ®. He hasn't delivered anything aside from a buggy tech demo yet. At least when they preach about Jesus, they say "he died for your sins." What has Chris Roberts done for you lately, aside from releasing a broken patch and officially breaking the official RSI Forums "for your own good," so you come here to vent?

I'll happily play Star Citizen once Chris satisfies the list of goals on his original kickstarter, which Chris has conveniently buried from his original kickstarter page. This "helpful" link goes nowhere, but the True Believers don't complain since real measurement of progress is sacrilege.

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comprehensive-stretch-goals/

We might be waiting another decade. that's all I'm saying. I think I'd die of boredom before then.
Click to expand...

Nah, they will eventually ran out of funds, or excuses. The business organization as a whole is a complete disaster without clear focus and, thus, it will never succeed. Or will do so at 20x the cost had they planned anything before hand.

Huuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuge ponzi scheme.
 
There is no way that he will deliver on all of the Kick Starter goals on initial release, the 100 systems I can't see coming about for at least 2 years from now. In the mean time, a couple of planets this year, 20 next year, probably 50 and then 100 the following years. We have proven that the infinite planets thing is not working with games, and as long as CR isn't going to dump paid DLC on us for a planet bundle, I consider it a success on the content front. The biggest hurdle will be the gameplay and balance. Balancing the grind and ease of the game is going to take a while especially as they begin to bring in game play mechanics and mini games for the repair suite, exploration, refining etc. as we all can't live with the golf swing. I am just excited for a game of this caliber, and I can't see where all the cynicism comes from. They are a full blown studio, they do so much in house. The have a Mo-Cap rig and could do a better Smaug if they wanted to with the man Benedict himself. They have the technology, they have the talent, and it's all under one roof. I don't know how you can't see the potential when you play Star Marine, find the pirate base. Don't you'r minds go toward a dragonfly on the dunes, controlling The Spice, walking a Bengal? This isn't some little strip mall studio, they span continents to get the artistic disparity that comes with cultural stratification. Besides, what else comes close in the making as of now?
 
Tactical_Strike said:
Not once have they applied for tax exempt status, nor have they said they can faith heal you. However, for the game to fulfill it's promises, it has mandated a fee of $45.00 (USD) to play, unless you want to play for limited duration when they run the, "Free Fly" specials, and in those cases, they aren't asking for any money. If you do want to wait until all of these criticisms are forgotten and the game releases before you purchase, you would be far wiser than most of the people on this thread making grand declarations of negativity, and you will always be free to wait until the game is released before you feel compelled to make an entry into the verse. The biggest thing right now, is that most modern games you can buy have a terrible quality of game play, with the majority of them being console/mobile exclusives. I don't think I purchased a single game in the last two years because none of them were worth it for me. (I take it back, I did buy Overwatch when it was on pre-release sale for $10 off) I must have gotten lucky on that one too for some reason.
Click to expand...

yup, you took it. hook, line, and sinker.
 
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