Ghost In The Shell Official Trailer

Ducman69 said:
Is it like country music where its something you'll never truly get until you pine for the love of a first cousin?
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? I don't much like country music, but I doubt its all about that lol
 
Chunder said:
Perhaps the older generations aren't anime fans, but I know there's a lot of younger people (35 and younger) that love anime. The size and growing number of conventions, and the ever increasing content, including imported anime with English audio, proves how popular it is. Especially works by Hayao Miyazaki.

As for fans not watching the movie due to them butchering the characters or story. I'm not entirely sure what the producers were thinking. Classics like Ghost in the Shell have a deep fan base, if you're going to make a movie for them based on a beloved series, you better make the actors and costumes look as identical as possible, not waste resources on name brand actors. It wasn't even so much about the white washing, which is a small problem in the industry, but the fact the costumes, and even the actors themselves, weren't remotely true to the characters! This is the sole reason why it flopped, just as the live action dragon ball movie did a few years ago.
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Sorry, but even if anime isn't as fringe as it once was, it's still a long way from being mainstream. Even within animedom, there aren't *that* many GitS fans. Even if they all had gone to see it, I doubt the numbers would've been a heck of a lot greater than they ended up being. In other words, the movie was bound to flop because it couldn't reach out to mainstream viewers -- not in large enough numbers, anyway. That also covers my view of the "whitewashing" topic: the number of people who cared enough about that to not see the movie was far from significant -- the movie wouldn't have done a whole lot better if everyone who boycotted it had gone to see it instead.

Personally, I think the movie was poorly timed. It may also have suffered from insufficient marketing, but I couldn't say that for sure. But timing... it may have done better if it had been released at some other time of the year, though probably not enough to stop it from flopping. This movie may well have been doomed from the beginning.
 
I think the whitewashing hurt it- not in terms of putting of moviegoers directly, but if you offend movie reviewers political 'sensibilities', they'll dump on you.
 
IdiotInCharge said:
I think the whitewashing hurt it- not in terms of putting of moviegoers directly, but if you offend movie reviewers political 'sensibilities', they'll dump on you.
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Reviewers have never had a big problem with this in the past and the reviews I read didn't dislike it because of the actress. They didn't like the writing.

Madoc said:
Sorry, but even if anime isn't as fringe as it once was, it's still a long way from being mainstream. Even within animedom, there aren't *that* many GitS fans. Even if they all had gone to see it, I doubt the numbers would've been a heck of a lot greater than they ended up being. In other words, the movie was bound to flop because it couldn't reach out to mainstream viewers -- not in large enough numbers, anyway. That also covers my view of the "whitewashing" topic: the number of people who cared enough about that to not see the movie was far from significant -- the movie wouldn't have done a whole lot better if everyone who boycotted it had gone to see it instead.

Personally, I think the movie was poorly timed. It may also have suffered from insufficient marketing, but I couldn't say that for sure. But timing... it may have done better if it had been released at some other time of the year, though probably not enough to stop it from flopping. This movie may well have been doomed from the beginning.
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I think it's a combination of the white washing issue (which is just as stupid, in this particular case, as it was with the force awakens and Finn...plenty of peeps on this forum were white raged over Finn being black). Oddly, outside of the U.S., it's not a huge issue and in Japan it's barely an issue at all. It's important to note that the movie did OK worldwide. If it'd been the usual 50/50 (ish) split, the movie would be at roughly 100 million, which isn't far from making back it's budget (before marketing costs).
 
nilepez said:
Reviewers have never had a big problem with this in the past and the reviews I read didn't dislike it because of the actress. They didn't like the writing.
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The subjectivity of the medium allows them the flexibility to complain about the writing (especially if there's something to complain about) and then use that to support a penalty in final scoring that's not necessarily revealed, but I do see your point.
 
Why's it not doing well? Okay, here's a view from someone who is not part of the GiTS fan base, but enjoys sci-fi: the trailers got my attention. But Scarjo brings her SJW odor with her. Does that matter to me? Yes, when it is my money she wants. Plus, as a Hollywood action flick, I'm pretty sure I'll see a lot of high tempo scenes with a lot of CGI, held together by some sort of thin thread of a plot. In sum, an actress with whom I disagree on about everything, starring in a movie I view as predictable. Not worth my time or money.

Hollywood is in a rut.

That's my view.
 
c3k said:
Why's it not doing well? Okay, here's a view from someone who is not part of the GiTS fan base, but enjoys sci-fi: the trailers got my attention. But Scarjo brings her SJW odor with her. Does that matter to me? Yes, when it is my money she wants. Plus, as a Hollywood action flick, I'm pretty sure I'll see a lot of high tempo scenes with a lot of CGI, held together by some sort of thin thread of a plot. In sum, an actress with whom I disagree on about everything, starring in a movie I view as predictable. Not worth my time or money.

Hollywood is in a rut.

That's my view.
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That's a shame, I think you're missing out. Saw it last week and honestly thought it was one of the best surprises I've seen at the cinema since Dredd.

It's a good film. It's just been piss poorly marketed and released at a bad time. Unfortunately, people just don't seem to care for this kind of story right now. Certainly at the cinema.

But I expect it'll do really well on DVD.
 
Didn't go to see it because I found the original anime to be a big
dissapointment and way overrated. S.J.'s films tending to be meh didn't help.
 
Ducman69 said:
In all honesty, it probably would have been more appealing if it were rated-R with some nudity and hyper-violence.
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If only because it would have been more true to the source material. I don't even care about real nudity, implied would have been fine and certainly enough, but the violence didn't come close and that is one of the series' hallmarks.
 
I was really stoked to see this movie but after watching a 10 minute sneak peek I immediately wrote it off. For starters it looks like this movie was aiming for an R-rating and then got sanitized for a PG-13 rating likely at the behest of some studio suit n' tie jackasses to milk more profits from a wider audience. The trailer itself has much more brutal violence showing blood flying out of peoples bodies when they get shot whereas the actual movie has removed all of this. I've also heard numerous other cuts were made to satisfy a kid friendly PG-13 rating. Hopefully a "directors cut" makes the release so I can just save myself for that.

But beyond that, even the parts that werent cut just seemed bad. The dialogue was forced, the actors were campy, the whole thing just seems poorly implemented. From the introduction of Major on the roof set the tune of techno music, that stupid cheesy x-ray vision, the geisha robot begging for mercy before giving her an ominous threat, the bad acting between the Hanka rep and the African diplomat, I knew this movie would land around the 40% RT mark.
 
nilepez said:
I think it's a combination of the white washing issue (which is just as stupid, in this particular case, as it was with the force awakens and Finn...plenty of peeps on this forum were white raged over Finn being black).
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I don't care much for SJW crocodile tears, but I wouldn't compare this to The Force Awakens. If you read the official Dark Horse English translation of the Ghost in the Shell manga, the first page says very clearly that the comic is set in 'a strange corporate conglomerate-state called "Japan."'

Sure, it also says "it is the near future," and in fact that's the opening sentence. But two sentences later, we have "the nation-state and ethnic groups still survive."

I grant that the author doesn't care about the whitewashing and has praised ScarJo, but IMO, it takes some mental gymnastics to argue with a straight face that the Major is a white woman in a futuristic Japan (a country that's 98.5% Japanese, and the next largest minority is 0.5% Korean).
 
alexyang said:
I grant that the author doesn't care about the whitewashing and has praised ScarJo, but IMO, it takes some mental gymnastics to argue with a straight face that the Major is a white woman in a futuristic Japan (a country that's 98.5% Japanese, and the next largest minority is 0.5% Korean).
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Thankfully, the movie doesn't present that argument.
 
alexyang said:
I don't care much for SJW crocodile tears, but I wouldn't compare this to The Force Awakens. If you read the official Dark Horse English translation of the Ghost in the Shell manga, the first page says very clearly that the comic is set in 'a strange corporate conglomerate-state called "Japan."'

Sure, it also says "it is the near future," and in fact that's the opening sentence. But two sentences later, we have "the nation-state and ethnic groups still survive."

I grant that the author doesn't care about the whitewashing and has praised ScarJo, but IMO, it takes some mental gymnastics to argue with a straight face that the Major is a white woman in a futuristic Japan (a country that's 98.5% Japanese, and the next largest minority is 0.5% Korean).
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She's a cyborg. She could look like a smurf and still be in Japan. And I'll add, that when studios plop down 100 million (200 million if you believe the article), they want a big name star to prop up the tent. I can't think of any Japanese American actress that could do that today. Now you can argue that that's because not enough are cast in roles, and that's probably a fair statement, but that's really a supporting role issue and perhaps lead roles in smaller films. IME, actors start off small and work their way up. There are exceptions, but most are like Daniel Craig who'd been acting for almost 15 years before he got the lead in James Bond.

Scarlett's break out role was in Lost in Translation...a movie with 4 million dollar budget and it's only been in the last 6 or 7 years (maybe less) that she's started getting leading roles in big budget movies. It's the first 10 or 15 years prior to that where the system is failing non-white actors.
 
Well, failing white and black actors. Black actors are over represented, and while that's not a huge problem, if you're not white or black, you're not very likely to break into larger roles.

At the same time, I'm seeing it change and I'm loving it- at least, on the periphery where my tastes lie (largely Sci-Fi).
 
nilepez said:
She's a cyborg. She could look like a smurf and still be in Japan.
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She's also constantly "in the field" (i.e. the streets of Japan). Now, if the country is 98.5% all the same ethnic group, don't know about you, but to me, looking like a smurf or a white person causes you to stand out. Maybe that's not ideal if you want to blend in when you're doing police work.

And I'll add, that when studios plop down 100 million (200 million if you believe the article), they want a big name star to prop up the tent.
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Oh not this argument again. Studios said the same about The Last Airbender, which had a budget of $150 million. How well did that work out for them?
 
alexyang said:
I don't care much for SJW crocodile tears, but I wouldn't compare this to The Force Awakens. If you read the official Dark Horse English translation of the Ghost in the Shell manga, the first page says very clearly that the comic is set in 'a strange corporate conglomerate-state called "Japan."'

Sure, it also says "it is the near future," and in fact that's the opening sentence. But two sentences later, we have "the nation-state and ethnic groups still survive."

I grant that the author doesn't care about the whitewashing and has praised ScarJo, but IMO, it takes some mental gymnastics to argue with a straight face that the Major is a white woman in a futuristic Japan (a country that's 98.5% Japanese, and the next largest minority is 0.5% Korean).
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If you saw the movie you'd actually realize they use her being White as a part of the story and imo it actually helps drive home part of the morality of the themes it sets fourth that'd be missing if it were a Japanese actress.
 
alexyang said:
I grant that the author doesn't care about the whitewashing and has praised ScarJo, but IMO, it takes some mental gymnastics to argue with a straight face that the Major is a white woman in a futuristic Japan (a country that's 98.5% Japanese, and the next largest minority is 0.5% Korean).
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So if a blue eyed cacausian person with obviously caucasian bone structure were to live in say, africa, their race would be considered african?
 
Stiler said:
If you saw the movie you'd actually realize they use her being White as a part of the story and imo it actually helps drive home part of the morality of the themes it sets fourth that'd be missing if it were a Japanese actress.
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I brought up the comic to dispel the oft-repeated claim that the original sources never said anything about where the setting is etc.

nysmo said:
So if a blue eyed cacausian person with obviously caucasian bone structure were to live in say, africa, their race would be considered african?
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I don't see how that question relates to what you quoted from me.
 
alexyang said:
She's also constantly "in the field" (i.e. the streets of Japan). Now, if the country is 98.5% all the same ethnic group, don't know about you, but to me, looking like a smurf or a white person causes you to stand out. Maybe that's not ideal if you want to blend in when you're doing police work.
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If her raceless cyborg body was supposed to be asian looking in the anime, then it was a freakishly tall, giant breasted, and doe-eyed asian and would have certainly stood out in any mostly normal-looking asian crowd. Being super attractive, hyper-sexuallized, and often scantily clad probably didn't help much either.
 
GaryJohnson said:
If her raceless cyborg body was supposed to be asian looking in the anime, then it was a freakishly tall, giant breasted, and doe-eyed asian and would have certainly stood out in any mostly normal-looking asian crowd. Being super attractive, hyper-sexuallized, and often scantily clad probably didn't help much either.
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Ugh, the "Asian looking" argument. You know, if you want to go there, I can easily argue that the DC Animated Universe versions of Bruce Wayne, Superman, and Dick Grayson are actually Asian men. They all have black (not brown) hair. Superman's eyes are even smaller than most other characters'. Prior to the animation change, Bruce Wayne looked like this.

I bet you'd think that's a ridiculous argument. And it is. Because we know that Bruce Wayne and Dick Grayson are white. But we know that based on background information, not based on how they're drawn.
 
alexyang said:
She's also constantly "in the field" (i.e. the streets of Japan). Now, if the country is 98.5% all the same ethnic group, don't know about you, but to me, looking like a smurf or a white person causes you to stand out. Maybe that's not ideal if you want to blend in when you're doing police work.
Oh not this argument again. Studios said the same about The Last Airbender, which had a budget of $150 million. How well did that work out for them?
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That's how it goes. It's why Stallone got to make 1 bad movie after another, because no matter how bad each First Blood sequel was (and every one other than the original was crap) did great, because it had Stallone in it.

alexyang said:
Ugh, the "Asian looking" argument. You know, if you want to go there, I can easily argue that the DC Animated Universe versions of Bruce Wayne, Superman, and Dick Grayson are actually Asian men. They all have black (not brown) hair. Superman's eyes are even smaller than most other characters'. Prior to the animation change, Bruce Wayne looked like this.

I bet you'd think that's a ridiculous argument. And it is. Because we know that Bruce Wayne and Dick Grayson are white. But we know that based on background information, not based on how they're drawn.
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And I couldn't care less if Bruce Wayne is played by a white, Japanese, Black or Indian actor. Completely irrelevant. What WB cares about is that the person playing him will likely bring in a huge first weekend. You'd never have Michael Keeton play batman today, but 30 years ago, he was a top draw and it made sense. You wouldn't have made Ben Affleck Batman in 1995 for the same reason.

Sorry if you don't like that movies are a business, but that's what it is. Again, if you want to win this fight, you take it to the smaller films, where ethnic actors can build a resume and become marquee actors. It's an issue, but you will never win this fight on movies with a 9 figure budget.
 
nilepez said:
That's how it goes. It's why Stallone got to make 1 bad movie after another, because no matter how bad each First Blood sequel was (and every one other than the original was crap) did great, because it had Stallone in it.
...
Sorry if you don't like that movies are a business, but that's what it is. Again, if you want to win this fight, you take it to the smaller films, where ethnic actors can build a resume and become marquee actors. It's an issue, but you will never win this fight on movies with a 9 figure budget.
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Of course. That's why The Last Airbender had a $150 million budget and cast marquee actors like Noah Ringer and Jackson Rathbone. Wait.

  • Airbender was Ringer's first role.
  • Rathbone was a background supporting cast member in the Twilight series.
  • Airbender flopped. It was supposed to be the start of a series, and the sequel never happened.

The problem with your argument is that studios pull it constantly. They pull it for big budget films and low budget films. They pull it for marquee actors and for nobodies. That tells me that it's not a valid argument. It's just an excuse.
 
If this was a new Star Wars movie, it would have banked billions of dollars and get rave reviews and people would go on how brave Scarlette J is for taking the role of an iconic anime character.
 
I don't care about the whole whitewashing. But the script. The script was bad. This is a rental, maybe.
 
alexyang said:
I brought up the comic to dispel the oft-repeated claim that the original sources never said anything about where the setting is etc.



I don't see how that question relates to what you quoted from me.
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Err, did you quote the right person?

What I said had nothing to do with trying to claim it wasn't set in Japan....

I was pointing out that they use ScarJo's race in the story to drive home part of the theme and morality of the storyline that you wouldn't get if she was played by a Japanese actress.
 
Stiler said:
I was pointing out that they use ScarJo's race in the story to drive home part of the theme and morality of the storyline that you wouldn't get if she was played by a Japanese actress.
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If you're talking about how ScarJo's Major is actually a Japanese woman, and this aids the theme and morality of the storyline, well, I guess this is one of those interpretation things. That's not part of the comic and to me feels like a cheap handwave to the whitewashing critics. But I can agree to disagree on this.
 
alexyang said:
Of course. That's why The Last Airbender had a $150 million budget and cast marquee actors like Noah Ringer and Jackson Rathbone. Wait.

  • Airbender was Ringer's first role.
  • Rathbone was a background supporting cast member in the Twilight series.
  • Airbender flopped. It was supposed to be the start of a series, and the sequel never happened.

The problem with your argument is that studios pull it constantly. They pull it for big budget films and low budget films. They pull it for marquee actors and for nobodies. That tells me that it's not a valid argument. It's just an excuse.
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I don't think many people will understand outside of us Asians who constantly see caucasians getting casted into a traditionally Asian role (anime to live action). It is pretty frustrating, I rather it be at least a bit closer to the source material when it comes to the characters.
 
Damar said:
Just wait until the live action Akira hits the theaters!! ;)
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It was an independent release, not bad really:
pdc_Akirafanmadeposter.jpg
 
refraxion said:
I don't think many people will understand outside of us Asians who constantly see caucasians getting casted into a traditionally Asian role (anime to live action). It is pretty frustrating, I rather it be at least a bit closer to the source material when it comes to the characters.
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I agree, but not because of "traditionally Asian role", but because I understood the character is meant to be and look Japanese.

I do hate when we have a long history of a character being a certain look, and then they change it entirely... that's annoying, as the race/look of the character is already established. If spiderman's boss is a white guy with a gray mustache and shaved top haircut, and all of a sudden in the new movie he's a bald black guy, no sir, not cool.

But otherwise, I would ask you, are you outraged that in Chinese language films that there aren't more white and black actors in "traditionally white or black roles"? In China recently a movie released called "The Mermaid", and this is taken from white mythology, as it comes from European culture. Is it wrong that they have an all Chinese cast, or is it OK because just as Western civilization is culturally and primarily ethnically European, Chinese civilization is culturally and primarily ethnically Chinese?
 
Saw it this past weekend. The first 30 minutes or so feel like they're showing off the visuals more than anything, but eventually the story picks up and it becomes pretty engaging.

In my opinion this is one of the most impressive live-action adaptations of an anime ever, and hell, the story is pretty on-point. I think this does really well as a stand-alone movie, anime aside.

As for the actors cast, it was a movie produced by American production companies and therefore produced for an American market. If they cast <insert-Japanese-actors-here>, it arguably wouldn't have done as well as it did, and while I can attest that the acting wasn't top notch, it wasn't awful either.
 
refraxion said:
I don't think many people will understand outside of us Asians who constantly see caucasians getting casted into a traditionally Asian role (anime to live action). It is pretty frustrating, I rather it be at least a bit closer to the source material when it comes to the characters.
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I get that not everyone cares. But it's one thing to say you don't care. It's another thing to actually give excuses for whitewashing, because then you obviously do care enough to give an opinion.

Ducman69 said:
But otherwise, I would ask you, are you outraged that in Chinese language films that there aren't more white and black actors in "traditionally white or black roles"? In China recently a movie released called "The Mermaid", and this is taken from white mythology, as it comes from European culture. Is it wrong that they have an all Chinese cast, or is it OK because just as Western civilization is culturally and primarily ethnically European, Chinese civilization is culturally and primarily ethnically Chinese?
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If you want to go here, mermaids originated in the Middle East, not in Europe. But that's pedantic, and of course people can draw influence from wherever they want.

Truthfully, this is a red herring. GitS is an American-produced film. So we should be talking about America, not China, and Asian Americans are 5.6% of America. So why shouldn't Asian American actors and actresses star in American films?
 
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