Companies Start Implanting Microchips into Workers' Bodies

Bandalo said:
They're not implanting it against your will. You had to agree to it. Involuntary implants would be a completely different story.
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Just like seatbelts where voluntary, and credit cards where voluntary.

Now, in most states you will get a ticket if you don't have your seatbelt on, and good luck renting a car or hotel room if you don't have a credit card.

This is how it starts, voluntary, fun thing to do.
Then you job will require you to get an implant, if you want to keep your job.
Then the state will require it if you want to fly, buy a gun, or drive a car.

Eventually you won't be able to buy anything or go anywhere without a chip to identify yourself. And the government will have scanner setup everywhere to track your every movement.

Might make it easier to solve crimes, assuming the criminals are not smart enough to block the chips signal so they are not tracked.
 
Nah, there is no way this could ever go wrong or be a bad thing.

It won't be too long before you have to have one of these embedded in the palm of your hand or your forehead and without one you won't be able to buy or sell anything........hmmm......now where have I heard that before????? (R13:16-17)
 
So the company claims that it will only be used in the office. Uh-huh. What about when it's quitting time and you leave work. Does the chip magically stop working? What kind of data can be obtained from an RFID chip? Will the person have to resort to wearing special RFID shielded clothing to hide the chip on their way home to prevent someone from "accidentally" bumping into them and obtaining all the data on the chip?

Ok, I'll stop there before I get too carried on. It's late and I'm tired. I do not think I would be the type of person to voluntarily subject myself to having a chip inserted anywhere on my body. With an RFID card, I can choose to not carry it if I do not wish to carry it (such as when off work). With a chip, there is no option to not carry it when you are at home. Ok, I've had my say. :p
 
Sweden..'nuff said. Notice how they said the employees where "happy" to have the implants? That's to con us all into going easy when it is our turn to get implanted.
 
Hahaha, people are willing to be chipped like their pet dogs and cats
 
Employee: Hi, my chip isn't working properly...

ServiceDesk: You aren't holding your hand right
 
Bandalo said:
Well, what creepy ways would they abuse it? If it's similar to a typical access badge, then you'd have to wave your hand near a reader for it to work. It's not like it's broadcasting your GPS location 24/7. My work can't track me by my badge/ID right now, other than to look at when I opened certain doors, and what computers I logged into. If this new scanner was in effect, it'd be the same. The only difference is I wouldn't be able to claim someone stole my badge.

I see a lot of technical issues (broken chips, multiple protocols, etc), but I don't see this as any "big brother" type thing.
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I do.
When it becomes "required", that's my problem.
I don't think I should have to have something impregnated in me to work somewhere.
Then you will need one for the bank.
Then for college.
Then a small, free RFID implant for "free" coffee for customers at 7/11.
One for Kroger's.
One for Wal*Mart.
If all those fucking swipe cards in our wallets are evidence of how badly a company wants you tattooed with you becoming their brand, it will become Orwell's Big Brother or however you want to think distopian about corporation's owning your ass.
 
Damn man, after reading this thread I need to buy stock in tin foil

Seriously people, it's a tiny RFID chip, not some super secret NSA implant with 7 external GPS antennae and a wifi connection. I'm all for drawing lines on where things go too far, but it's like the fucking dark ages in here. New idea? Fuck no, it's the evil guberment tracking and targeting me! Dey comin for me!

You do realize that you walk past on average over 100 cameras a day. And lets not even think about satellites. If someone wants to build a pattern of life for you they can do it with you walking around wearing nothing but 30 lbs of tin foil.

What if they target ads to you based on what you buy at lunch? You do realize they can already do that, either off your current card info or by just using the good old standard issue face balls of vision

What if they track you at home? Do you realize how RFID's work? You have to have the chip damn near a reader, within a few inches, to have it read, then that reader needs to be connected back to the company. As long as you don't put readers every 12-16 inches in your house you'll be fine. And if someone wants to know your location and movement patterns again, they can use thermal cameras or just the good old face balls again.

But, but, ma privasy!!! Seriously, anyone who thinks privacy exists anymore is the fool, not the one getting an RFID door code in your hand. You keep your door chip on you all the time at work anyways, you have it on your keys at home, your phone and car likely have GPS in them, you have cameras in your house somewhere and walk past dozens or hundreds every day, you live on a a planet surrounded by satellites, you use the internet in your life on a daily basis, you leave your fingerprints and DNA littered everywhere with zero concern about who can use that to frame you for any sort of crime, you complain about the big evil guberment or corporation that you think is coming to take over you in a public space (if you were truly worried wouldn't you be in a barrel in the ground naked somewhere?). I mean shit, people can talk in their sleep for god sakes, you can betray you're deepest secret and not even be awake! And lets not forget the things you say and do while drinking, or the things you'll say to get some snatch.

You live this life every single day and you think the linchpin to being sheeple is a door key in your hand?
 
Bandalo said:
There's reasons to keep things separate, but there's also plenty of good reasons to change things up too. The "old generation" didn't have rampant identity theft either. They had massive check fraud instead. Don't get me wrong, I do agree things should have "off" switches, and there's NO reason for most of the internet-connected devices that exist. I don't think THIS particular example is of the same calibre though, since, if properly used, it would solve a very big problem.



They're not implanting it against your will. You had to agree to it. Involuntary implants would be a completely different story.


While I appreciate the insults to my intelligence, and your assumptions about my age and experience, I have to disagree. The use of this technology in this story isn't violating anyone's privacy any more than using an ID card to access the building would. I don't brush aside the abuse, I don't see this as any kind of abuse at all. I've worked in secure buildings and facilities my entire life. If I could use the same damn device to access the building and my desktops, and not need 3 different cards with different PINs, I'd appreciate it and I don't feel my privacy would be invaded any more. The security forces already track who goes through what doors, and who logs on to what workstations. Is that a violation of privacy, or basic security?
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While you take offense to what he said, everyone knows this is the first step to involuntary "chipping". Once other companies look at this and say hey thats a great idea....."you can no longer work here unless you accept the chip in your skin." or "You have to be chipped first before we can hire you". That's what the issue is here its never about whether or not its voluntary its about the precedent set and then the following action from then on. Something that ALWAYS need to be considered. What ramifications this will have for the future. Some people may be up for it but i don't want a microchip shoved under my skin so they can track you. I have an RFID badge at work that i wear around my neck and thats pretty much where my comfort level ends with that tech. I have an RFID blocking wallet so my crap doesn't get stolen by a passer by with ill intentions.
 
Vaulter98c said:
Damn man, after reading this thread I need to buy stock in tin foil

Seriously people, it's a tiny RFID chip, not some super secret NSA implant with 7 external GPS antennae and a wifi connection. I'm all for drawing lines on where things go too far, but it's like the fucking dark ages in here. New idea? Fuck no, it's the evil guberment tracking and targeting me! Dey comin for me!

You do realize that you walk past on average over 100 cameras a day. And lets not even think about satellites. If someone wants to build a pattern of life for you they can do it with you walking around wearing nothing but 30 lbs of tin foil.

What if they target ads to you based on what you buy at lunch? You do realize they can already do that, either off your current card info or by just using the good old standard issue face balls of vision

What if they track you at home? Do you realize how RFID's work? You have to have the chip damn near a reader, within a few inches, to have it read, then that reader needs to be connected back to the company. As long as you don't put readers every 12-16 inches in your house you'll be fine. And if someone wants to know your location and movement patterns again, they can use thermal cameras or just the good old face balls again.

But, but, ma privasy!!! Seriously, anyone who thinks privacy exists anymore is the fool, not the one getting an RFID door code in your hand. You keep your door chip on you all the time at work anyways, you have it on your keys at home, your phone and car likely have GPS in them, you have cameras in your house somewhere and walk past dozens or hundreds every day, you live on a a planet surrounded by satellites, you use the internet in your life on a daily basis, you leave your fingerprints and DNA littered everywhere with zero concern about who can use that to frame you for any sort of crime, you complain about the big evil guberment or corporation that you think is coming to take over you in a public space (if you were truly worried wouldn't you be in a barrel in the ground naked somewhere?). I mean shit, people can talk in their sleep for god sakes, you can betray you're deepest secret and not even be awake! And lets not forget the things you say and do while drinking, or the things you'll say to get some snatch.

You live this life every single day and you think the linchpin to being sheeple is a door key in your hand?
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Thats the problem.....its now invading into your life even further do you not understand that? Its one step closer to being a complete slave to the system. They already invade you privacy to much now, this just takes it further into your physical realm and literally placing something inside you. This is where people start having problems with the idea.
 
Bandalo said:
There's reasons to keep things separate, but there's also plenty of good reasons to change things up too. The "old generation" didn't have rampant identity theft either. They had massive check fraud instead. Don't get me wrong, I do agree things should have "off" switches, and there's NO reason for most of the internet-connected devices that exist. I don't think THIS particular example is of the same calibre though, since, if properly used, it would solve a very big problem.



They're not implanting it against your will. You had to agree to it. Involuntary implants would be a completely different story.


While I appreciate the insults to my intelligence, and your assumptions about my age and experience, I have to disagree. The use of this technology in this story isn't violating anyone's privacy any more than using an ID card to access the building would. I don't brush aside the abuse, I don't see this as any kind of abuse at all. I've worked in secure buildings and facilities my entire life. If I could use the same damn device to access the building and my desktops, and not need 3 different cards with different PINs, I'd appreciate it and I don't feel my privacy would be invaded any more. The security forces already track who goes through what doors, and who logs on to what workstations. Is that a violation of privacy, or basic security?
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The key factor is that this scenario is voluntary. If the end user is uncomfortable with it, they can leave the company and find a different job. This is getting twisted into a particularly slippery slope, perhaps with good intentions, because we have all seen plenty of sci-fi movies where this kind of technology gets abused, forced upon unwilling participants, etc.
 
They can tell if you are rubbing one out it has an Accelerometer in it.
 
SomeoneElse said:
Thats the problem.....its now invading into your life even further do you not understand that? Its one step closer to being a complete slave to the system. They already invade you privacy to much now, this just takes it further into your physical realm and literally placing something inside you. This is where people start having problems with the idea.
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And you've brought absolutely nothing to the conversation except more paranoia. Who's this big bad "they"? "They" already have everything they want from you or already have the means to get it. There is only one difference between this article and the fob I have on my key chain right now. It's in my hand. Period. Besides that, 100% the exact same. I want you to list to me how this RFID door chip is any different then the RFID door chip that I have to take everywhere is already. I'll wait. Then I want you to describe the huge RFID network that my employer has blanketed this nation with about every 16 inches or so, including in my house. Hell, I want to see a picture of that, because I swear I can't see it, maybe "They" are using super future tech invisible paint!

Like I said I'm fine with drawing a line, but this isn't the line. This isn't some future tech tracking system from a sci fi movie. This is a RFID door chip. Stop playing the "They" card, this is the exact same as crap that's already out there for years and years, some just said hey, I can't forget it if it's in my hand.

Welcome to modern life. If you are so afraid of "being a slave to the system" or "Them" then I suggest you get offline (where you are giving away WAY MORE info in one forum post then that RFID chip ever will) and go live in some crappy hole in Africa. I can tell just from one post what your PC is, that you are a gamer, and clicking one button I can see all your post history and put together a pretty compelling description of you. Way more info then I can get from "Bobby opened the same 5 doors at work that he does everyday, but we already knew that because he used his key card to do the same thing for the last 12 years"

Stop trying to fear monger this, it's a simple rfid chip and it's voluntary.

Plus, any smart company uses 2FA anyways, so no, no one is going to steal your hand to break in somewhere. If for some reason the "They" that you work for doesn't provide this, I have a box full of RFID enabled pin pads I can sell you on Ebay, I even offer a damn good price to them compared to the normal Ebay sales.

Be careful though, if you log into Ebay "They" may know that you like to buy things, with money! OH NOES!!
 
Vaulter98c said:
And you've brought absolutely nothing to the conversation except more paranoia. Who's this big bad "they"? "They" already have everything they want from you or already have the means to get it. There is only one difference between this article and the fob I have on my key chain right now. It's in my hand. Period. Besides that, 100% the exact same. I want you to list to me how this RFID door chip is any different then the RFID door chip that I have to take everywhere is already. I'll wait. Then I want you to describe the huge RFID network that my employer has blanketed this nation with about every 16 inches or so, including in my house. Hell, I want to see a picture of that, because I swear I can't see it, maybe "They" are using super future tech invisible paint!

Like I said I'm fine with drawing a line, but this isn't the line. This isn't some future tech tracking system from a sci fi movie. This is a RFID door chip. Stop playing the "They" card, this is the exact same as crap that's already out there for years and years, some just said hey, I can't forget it if it's in my hand.

Welcome to modern life. If you are so afraid of "being a slave to the system" or "Them" then I suggest you get offline (where you are giving away WAY MORE info in one forum post then that RFID chip ever will) and go live in some crappy hole in Africa. I can tell just from one post what your PC is, that you are a gamer, and clicking one button I can see all your post history and put together a pretty compelling description of you. Way more info then I can get from "Bobby opened the same 5 doors at work that he does everyday, but we already knew that because he used his key card to do the same thing for the last 12 years"

Stop trying to fear monger this, it's a simple rfid chip and it's voluntary.

Plus, any smart company uses 2FA anyways, so no, no one is going to steal your hand to break in somewhere. If for some reason the "They" that you work for doesn't provide this, I have a box full of RFID enabled pin pads I can sell you on Ebay, I even offer a damn good price to them compared to the normal Ebay sales.

Be careful though, if you log into Ebay "They" may know that you like to buy things, with money! OH NOES!!
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It's voluntary NOW. THAT is the problem. Sure, they'll always say it's voluntary. Like "This is a voluntary implant if you want to work for our company." Yes, you can find another job, but how long before it catches on with other companies, then becomes "voluntary" there too. You're not thinking ahead about this. This isn't fearmongering. It's a logical progression that's occurred with MANY other technologies. Some beneficial, some not. Also, just because "they" can already obtain information on just about anyone, how does it make it ok to get the foot in the door for one that's exponentially more invasive? Just because my info is already out there doesn't mean that I should be fine with ten new ways for it to be obtained. It's a choice now. It may not be at some point, and just because it's a simple key to a door at your work now, doesn't mean they won't quietly add more "features" to these devices, and slowly progress what it does over time. If this catches on, they can say it's voluntary all they want, but eventually if you want to work ANYWHERE, you'll need to do it. How is that voluntary? No, in it's current form, nobody is going to steal your hand, unless maybe you work for a top-secret organization or something, and it's a planned act of espionage. (even that is a big stretch I know :D ) BUT, things progress these days before people even know what hit them. Should we not offer a little bit of resistance to things we're not completely comfortable with?
 
katanaD said:
>operate printers

ok, this one is puzzling, how does an implant help you operate a printer?
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A lot of places, the DoD for example, have token or 2FA based printing. There are card readers on all of the printers now, so you need to use your card and pin to log in, then pull your card, go to the printer, put your card and your pin in again, then the document actually prints, then you have to take the card back and log in. If you forget your card you can't get in to the bulding, can't get into certain doors, can't get on any computer, can't print anything, the list goes on.
 
Vaulter98c said:
A lot of places, the DoD for example, have token or 2FA based printing. There are card readers on all of the printers now, so you need to use your card and pin to log in, then pull your card, go to the printer, put your card and your pin in again, then the document actually prints, then you have to take the card back and log in. If you forget your card you can't get in to the bulding, can't get into certain doors, can't get on any computer, can't print anything, the list goes on.
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Granted. And that is a giant pain. What happens when you walk by something that erases/damages your implant?
 
umm-no.jpeg
 
Bandalo said:
Well, what creepy ways would they abuse it? If it's similar to a typical access badge, then you'd have to wave your hand near a reader for it to work. It's not like it's broadcasting your GPS location 24/7. My work can't track me by my badge/ID right now, other than to look at when I opened certain doors, and what computers I logged into. If this new scanner was in effect, it'd be the same. The only difference is I wouldn't be able to claim someone stole my badge.

I see a lot of technical issues (broken chips, multiple protocols, etc), but I don't see this as any "big brother" type thing.
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No it's not like big brother would tap into data you always carry with you *cough*google*cough*facebook*cough* and use it against you. I mean you can just pull the implant out before you approach any randomly network connected RFID readers right? I mean RFID readers only exist at your workplace right?
 
MrSteel74 said:
Anyone else think of the Futurama career chips?
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But I don't want to be a career delivery boy.

DigitalGriffin said:
No it's not like big brother would tap into data you always carry with you *cough*google*cough*facebook*cough* and use it against you. I mean you can just pull the implant out before you approach any randomly network connected RFID readers right?
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I think this part is where one would wear stylish RFID blocking gloves. :D
 
J3RK said:
It's voluntary NOW. THAT is the problem. Sure, they'll always say it's voluntary. Like "This is a voluntary implant if you want to work for our company." Yes, you can find another job, but how long before it catches on with other companies, then becomes "voluntary" there too. You're not thinking ahead about this. This isn't fearmongering. It's a logical progression that's occurred with MANY other technologies. Some beneficial, some not. Also, just because "they" can already obtain information on just about anyone, how does it make it ok to get the foot in the door for one that's exponentially more invasive? Just because my info is already out there doesn't mean that I should be fine with ten new ways for it to be obtained. It's a choice now. It may not be at some point, and just because it's a simple key to a door at your work now, doesn't mean they won't quietly add more "features" to these devices, and slowly progress what it does over time. If this catches on, they can say it's voluntary all they want, but eventually if you want to work ANYWHERE, you'll need to do it. How is that voluntary? No, in it's current form, nobody is going to steal your hand, unless maybe you work for a top-secret organization or something, and it's a planned act of espionage. (even that is a big stretch I know :D ) BUT, things progress these days before people even know what hit them. Should we not offer a little bit of resistance to things we're not completely comfortable with?
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When you get to the point of where things could actually become a problem then yes, you can resist all you want. But it is fear mongering because we are no where near that level yet and people are pretending this tech has abilities it does not and can not have just to justify trying to block it and remain ignorant.

You can't make the flawed argument that because it is potentially a step along the way to something way far down the road that "could be bad if used improperly" that we must resist it.

I mean math eventually led to nuking 2 cities in Japan. Math, if used improperly (not that I'm saying that was the wrong call, we had to) we can already see that Math killed tens of thousands of people.
Discovering flight eventually led to drones, resulting in less risk to pilots, but if used wrong could lead to unmanned attacks on innocents.
The space race led to a million things, one of which is satellites that give us GPS, global weather monitoring and more accurate predictions, leading to better crop yields and less starving people, they also allow for better storm prediction saving untold numbers of lives, help us explore the universe as far as we can see, but if used wrong we can use them to track someone (or if used right we can use them to track someone needing tracked, see how that works?).
Genetics research has led to amazing discoveries in treatment, prevention, and understanding of many diseases and other health issues, but if used wrong it could literally create FOXDIE, so should we abandon all knowledge of genetics and resist any further progress to prevent that?
Lasers can perform extremely precise functions and operations, and even shoot down missiles attacking our Navy, but what if someone attached them to sharks? Does that mean we should stop research into lasers?

Humans are imaginative and exploration by nature, we've already had one point in history where people stopped all progress for the fear of what it may lead to (religion didn't like where science was going). We can't stop progress because well someone could use it wrong.

It's the same argument for rights to posses something physically. Do we ban the sale of hammers and bats, because when used wrong they killed more Americans then AR-15's did? Cars kill way more then guns every year, do we stop selling them because what could happen if used wrong?

Broken argument logic is broken.
 
J3RK said:
Granted. And that is a giant pain. What happens when you walk by something that erases/damages your implant?
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Short of actually being destroyed, I've worked a bunch with RFID chip enabled devices, can't recall more then 2 in the laast 8 years or so that actually stopped working.
 
Vaulter98c said:
When you get to the point of where things could actually become a problem then yes, you can resist all you want. But it is fear mongering because we are no where near that level yet and people are pretending this tech has abilities it does not and can not have just to justify trying to block it and remain ignorant.

You can't make the flawed argument that because it is potentially a step along the way to something way far down the road that "could be bad if used improperly" that we must resist it.

I mean math eventually led to nuking 2 cities in Japan. Math, if used improperly (not that I'm saying that was the wrong call, we had to) we can already see that Math killed tens of thousands of people.
Discovering flight eventually led to drones, resulting in less risk to pilots, but if used wrong could lead to unmanned attacks on innocents.
The space race led to a million things, one of which is satellites that give us GPS, global weather monitoring and more accurate predictions, leading to better crop yields and less starving people, they also allow for better storm prediction saving untold numbers of lives, help us explore the universe as far as we can see, but if used wrong we can use them to track someone (or if used right we can use them to track someone needing tracked, see how that works?).
Genetics research has led to amazing discoveries in treatment, prevention, and understanding of many diseases and other health issues, but if used wrong it could literally create FOXDIE, so should we abandon all knowledge of genetics and resist any further progress to prevent that?
Lasers can perform extremely precise functions and operations, and even shoot down missiles attacking our Navy, but what if someone attached them to sharks? Does that mean we should stop research into lasers?

Humans are imaginative and exploration by nature, we've already had one point in history where people stopped all progress for the fear of what it may lead to (religion didn't like where science was going). We can't stop progress because well someone could use it wrong.

It's the same argument for rights to posses something physically. Do we ban the sale of hammers and bats, because when used wrong they killed more Americans then AR-15's did? Cars kill way more then guns every year, do we stop selling them because what could happen if used wrong?

Broken argument logic is broken.
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There's a fallacy in your argument as well. What is being referred to is breaking down through attrition. Keep attacking by slowly removing rights until you reach the desired goal. After all it's just one small step more. Same thing happens with people who attack gun rights and abortions, as well as privacy. No flash muzzles. No clips more than 7 bullets....abortion clinics have to be within 5 miles of a class I trauma hospital.

I mean we're just going to use your RFID tag when you enter a gentlemen's club to see if you aren't dangerous and we'll give you preferred seating as a reward. It's convenient because you already have it installed right? I mean how could that data be abused right? Don't worry about how we connect up to the cloud to track your activity. It's all private we assure you.

Not like an potential employer would buy that data and discriminate against you for where you go outside of work.

I mean the government will protect us from abuses right? It's not like we removed privacy restrictions from ISP's, who would never sell out data for marketing purposes to the highest bidder.

You're wearing rose colored glasses Polyanna.

You MUST draw the line and say it isn't acceptable in ANY FORM to prevent attrition from happening.

BTW: Body implants are not a fool proof way to prevent identity theft. You're are sadly mistaken if you believe that. You can forge any RFID number and recreate it.
 
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How many places today already have their claws into you. "Install our app!...get free stuff" and when you install that app, they want your contact info, your mic access, your stored pictures, network access, GPS info, etc.

They claim it's a benefit. Make it easier to manage your router! ummm I need to access my router maybe 4 times a year...and you want me to install your big ass app with a 1,000,000 permissions for that? If your router was a quality product in the first place you wouldn't need a big ass app to maintain it constantly.

Even your insurance company wants you to install an app. Progressive, install our app so you can have easy access to your documents. They also don't clearly tell you that app tracks your driving habits and where you go and when.

Now companies are tracking your behavior without telling you and making it hard to get out. http://www.tomshardware.com/news/carrier-user-tracking-android-devices,34038.html


YOU HAVE TO DRAW A LINE.
 
Show me where I said it was fool proof. quote me. please.

And tell ya what, you get rid of all of your devices, all of your internet connected things, never log on to a PC or the web again. since you must draw the line I know that means you'll never buy a new piece of tech again right? you are drawing your line right? not just going online and beating your chest like the oh so enlightened person you are. I mean if you clearly know of all the dangers tech could provide you are getting rid of it right? or are you just blowing smoke out of your ass? that's what I thought.

And the example you came back with does not work. ooo what if someone discriminates against you and doesn't hire you because of something they know? that's their right, they don't owe you a job. make better choices or accept the consequences of your decisions. but what if they discriminate?!?! there are already laws against that and they are already broken and obeyed everyday, this changes nothing.

If you know you're job would not like you going to a strip club then find a new job or don't go to a strip club. is a strip club a constitutionally protected right? nope. is it a requirement to survive? it sounds like maybe for you it is, but there are much easier and cheaper ways to get a boner.

And yet again your other example is wrong too, you use laws as a basis to compare to a voluntary program. until this is required you have zero ground to stand on. period. you're comparing apples to WW2 U-boat's. right now it's just progress and new things that scare you and you already drank all the kool-aid. don't want it, don't get it, but nothing you said is even worth reading until it's required by law. then at least you can try to make your argument.

Too bad you have to draw your line, I guess I'll never know your reply since I'm on the evil internet filled with "them" watching our every move. have fun with that line of yours. I'm going to keep enjoying all sorts of new cool tech, and strangely I bet you will too...
 
Vaulter98c said:
And tell ya what, you get rid of all of your devices, all of your internet connected things, never log on to a PC or the web again. since you must draw the line I know that means you'll never buy a new piece of tech again right? you are drawing your line right? not just going online and beating your chest like the oh so enlightened person you are. I mean if you clearly know of all the dangers tech could provide you are getting rid of it right? or are you just blowing smoke out of your ass? that's what I thought.

And the example you came back with does not work. ooo what if someone discriminates against you and doesn't hire you because of something they know? that's their right, they don't owe you a job. make better choices or accept the consequences of your decisions. but what if they discriminate?!?! there are already laws against that and they are already broken and obeyed everyday, this changes nothing.

If you know you're job would not like you going to a strip club then find a new job or don't go to a strip club. is a strip club a constitutionally protected right? nope. is it a requirement to survive? it sounds like maybe for you it is, but there are much easier and cheaper ways to get a boner.

.
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Actually I haven't gone to a club in 15+ years and that was for my friends bachelor party. I have since outgrown such childish ways to stupidly blowing money. But I do believe in protecting all people's rights. We have a programmer here that loves strip clubs. And he's hell ass talented. He might not have a job if the HR department knew that about him in the first place.

And you are showing your ignorance. It is against the law to discriminate against someone for information that is not pertinent to their job. But it hasn't stopped tons of companies from using 3rd parties to mine social media for information about potential candidates.

and for your information...I do have a second network...completely air gapped for development. I do have a few ROKU's and devices dedicated to the net. They are tied to a smart switch and firewall to limit traffic direction, I tie them to dud accounts specific for that device full of false information. I review and clean my security settings and history on a regular basis on facebook and google. I go through it with a fine tooth comb. And I never install apps I don't need. You know what apps my phone has on it? Mail, calendar, my moto wear apps (no body tracking), and my anti virus.

Dudding and firewalling a built in RFID is near impossible without it being a pain in the ass. (ie: Wear copper mesh and aluminum mesh gloves)

But you know how many in the general public have this kind of skill? <<1%
 
So if something was so worthwhile to steal and you need an RFID chip, you'd just need to amputate someone's finger or hand?

Sounds like California's gloriously smart Microstamping for bullets, which they want all the states to follow with them. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microstamping
No one will be able to get away with a handgun crime. Right?
Unless of course they use a revolver or $10 brass catcher.
But hey, criminals wouldn't do that either.
 
Vaulter98c said:
Show me where I said it was fool proof. quote me. please.

And tell ya what, you get rid of all of your devices, all of your internet connected things, never log on to a PC or the web again. since you must draw the line I know that means you'll never buy a new piece of tech again right? you are drawing your line right? not just going online and beating your chest like the oh so enlightened person you are. I mean if you clearly know of all the dangers tech could provide you are getting rid of it right? or are you just blowing smoke out of your ass? that's what I thought.

And the example you came back with does not work. ooo what if someone discriminates against you and doesn't hire you because of something they know? that's their right, they don't owe you a job. make better choices or accept the consequences of your decisions. but what if they discriminate?!?! there are already laws against that and they are already broken and obeyed everyday, this changes nothing.

If you know you're job would not like you going to a strip club then find a new job or don't go to a strip club. is a strip club a constitutionally protected right? nope. is it a requirement to survive? it sounds like maybe for you it is, but there are much easier and cheaper ways to get a boner.

And yet again your other example is wrong too, you use laws as a basis to compare to a voluntary program. until this is required you have zero ground to stand on. period. you're comparing apples to WW2 U-boat's. right now it's just progress and new things that scare you and you already drank all the kool-aid. don't want it, don't get it, but nothing you said is even worth reading until it's required by law. then at least you can try to make your argument.

Too bad you have to draw your line, I guess I'll never know your reply since I'm on the evil internet filled with "them" watching our every move. have fun with that line of yours. I'm going to keep enjoying all sorts of new cool tech, and strangely I bet you will too...
Click to expand...

You're presenting a circular argument that just because people have other devices and items that companies can use to track and use / misuse personal data that it's ok for EVERYONE else to as well. No, it isn't. That choice SHOULD be up to the individual. If I don't care what Google does with my browsing info, but I DO care what my company does with my lunch and entry point info (possibly more, and who's to say how secure the small amount of data on the device is, or even what that device DOES actually do) that's MY decision. Just because someone else has data on me, doesn't mean that I have to let everyone else. That is a really stupid argument.

As far as your argument about what the device does, HOW DO YOU KNOW? Someone tells you it only contains security codes to the doors that you need access to, and will interface to an account where you can load funds for lunch purchases. Sure THAT sounds fine. How do YOU know that that's what it's actually doing? Sure, you can opt out now. But that doesn't mean it will always be like that.

As far as your argument about math causing nukes, and other causal effects. No. Those are not good arguments. This isn't decades away. This could catch on and be standard issue among many large corporations, where they say it's voluntary but it really isn't if you want to get a job there in the next couple of years if it catches on. I'm not saying it will. I'm not saying that it's a sure thing that it gets abused, but it is ENTIRELY possible. This isn't a freedom that I want to bestow on a company that I work for. Plain and simple. If they can access information on me in other ways, fine. They better jump through those hoops, because I don't feel like giving them one more. I don't have anything to hide and I STILL don't like this. It's not a stretch of the imagination to see where this very specific technology can go. You want to track this info with a card? Fine. I can leave that card home. I can choose how I use it at work. It's not embedded in my fucking hand. There is a difference.
 
Bandalo said:
Being "chipped" in this fashion would be no different than carrying an ID card that you can't drop or lose. I'd imagine that if properly implemented, it could seriously reduce identify theft. That's not a normal problem for livestock, but it is for humans.

Could this be abused? Sure. But all current methods of ID are abused too, so how would this be any different?
Click to expand...

Considering how prevalent rfid credit card theft is in most of the world, how exactly is rfid identity theft going to be reduced by constantly broadcasting your ID's to the world?!?!
 
KarsusTG said:
Considering how prevalent rfid credit card theft is in most of the world, how exactly is rfid identity theft going to be reduced by constantly broadcasting your ID's to the world?!?!
Click to expand...
Meh, just get it surgically removed and a new chip surgically impregnated once in a while.
 
J3RK said:
I don't see it like that right off the bat. Odds are good that they start off doing simply the work of a badge, and tie into your lunch account, etc. What's to stop more functionality from being added quietly though? Not broadcasting necessarily, but maybe collecting and storing data beyond which door you just went through. Maybe they start targeting ads at you based on the things you buy for lunch. I don't know. The biggest thing for me, is that the things they're trying to replace for convenience really aren't THAT inconvenient in the first place, and now you have a company owned chip embedded in your hand. Just seems stupid, but possibly worse than stupid depending on how the general tech can be exploited down the road. Like I said, maybe that sort of thing never happens. I'm not trying to cast gloom. I like progress. This just doesn't seem to progress anything for any good reason (to me at least).

Also, ask Snake Plisken about company implants. :p
Click to expand...

The "chip" doesn't collect anything. The "chip" is like the current ones used in dogs and cats. It's just a tiny antenna and a tiny generator. You wave your hand in front of a reader, and it powers on the chip, which just transmits a unique ID number. There's not a lot of room for adding megabytes of data, and you have to be within range of the reader for it to work, like a couple inches or less. All of the functionality (which doors it opens, which computers it unlocks) is done by the building's computer systems. EXACTLY like it's done now with your ID badge.

They could do ANY of the things you mentioned above with the company ID badge around your neck. Or the ID card in your wallet.

nutzo said:
Now they just steal your wallet and you have to call and have your cards replaced.
In the future they will simply clone your chip (and you will have to get a new chip implanted for the 20th time) or they will steal your hand.
Click to expand...

There's always the possibility for abuse, but I'd imagine this would be considerably more complex then stealing your wallet, which means it's far less likely to occur. Credit card theft is a good example...99% of it is from stealing unsecured magnetic strips or copying down the numbers.

I think there's plenty of arguments AGAINST this type of tech, but there's also some good arguments FOR it, and not just from the "invasive government/evil corporation" side. Properly done something like this couple eliminate ID theft, improve security, solve all sorts of problems that come from losing your ID or having a wallet stolen.
 
Bandalo said:
The "chip" doesn't collect anything. The "chip" is like the current ones used in dogs and cats. It's just a tiny antenna and a tiny generator. You wave your hand in front of a reader, and it powers on the chip, which just transmits a unique ID number. There's not a lot of room for adding megabytes of data, and you have to be within range of the reader for it to work, like a couple inches or less. All of the functionality (which doors it opens, which computers it unlocks) is done by the building's computer systems. EXACTLY like it's done now with your ID badge.

They could do ANY of the things you mentioned above with the company ID badge around your neck. Or the ID card in your wallet.



There's always the possibility for abuse, but I'd imagine this would be considerably more complex then stealing your wallet, which means it's far less likely to occur. Credit card theft is a good example...99% of it is from stealing unsecured magnetic strips or copying down the numbers.

I think there's plenty of arguments AGAINST this type of tech, but there's also some good arguments FOR it, and not just from the "invasive government/evil corporation" side. Properly done something like this couple eliminate ID theft, improve security, solve all sorts of problems that come from losing your ID or having a wallet stolen.
Click to expand...

Cards don't have to identify where you work. You lose it, no big deal. You call security the next day and problem solved. But you can put an portable RFID reader anywhere. I've seen them in those bill folds that restaurants give you. In fact they are now selling wallets with RF shielding to prevent "bump and take" schemes on places like metros.

And yes you can have megabytes of data collected on you. the RFID # acts like a web browsing cookie. It can be tied back to a central server that tracks everything you do.
 
DigitalGriffin said:
Cards don't have to identify where you work. You lose it, no big deal. You call security the next day and problem solved. But you can put an portable RFID reader anywhere. I've seen them in those bill folds that restaurants give you. In fact they are now selling wallets with RF shielding to prevent "bump and take" schemes on places like metros.

And yes you can have megabytes of data collected on you. the RFID # acts like a web browsing cookie. It can be tied back to a central server that tracks everything you do.
Click to expand...

They can also be secured to only release their ID code to authorized readers via an encryption scheme. Or have public and private codes, or business and personal. Or require a PIN in addition to the ID number. It's no more risky IMO than any of the current security methods out there, and probably a damn sight more secure, since the device itself can't be stolen or lost.

Your credit card is tied to a "central server that tracks everything you do". Your cell phone is tied to a "central server that tracks everything you do". Your driver's license is "central server that tracks everything you do". So is your SSN and your Gmail address.
 
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