Not Warning Kid About Piracy Makes Father Liable, Court Rules

Megalith

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In Germany, a father is taking the heat for his kid downloading an audiobook after his defense of limiting the child’s Internet usage to school-related stuff failed. The court basically argued that he should have taught his boy how it was wrong to download or share copyrighted content. I wonder if they thought about fining the mother too for birthing a pirate.

…the father argued that he’d asked his son to keep any Internet activity limited to school purposes, a statement that was backed up by the man’s partner. In addition, the 11-year-old was warned not to download random things or do anything dangerous. However, according to the court’s verdict, this doesn’t count as an adequate instruction since it lacks a specific explanation as to what illegal downloads are. In her order the judge writes that for proper parental supervision, it’s required to “instruct a child on the illegality of participating in illegal file-sharing exchanges, and to explicitly prohibit this behavior.”
 
The mom gets sent to the factory just for being the parent, oh wait thinking about something else.
Yeah this is crazy
 
Add another thing to teach your child:

1. Don't enter white vans.
2. Don't blindly believe anything anyone tells you.
3. Google everything. Except at school, or work.
4. Watch all the episodes of Battlestar Galactica, Star trek and Star Wars (movies).
5. Preorder all the games. Wait to redeem them or open the package. You know you want that shiny DLC and I don't blame you.
6. If you have enough money, you can do no wrong.
7. It's always about who you know.
8. Sit in the front row and raise your hand. Even if you don't know the answer. The teacher will most likely stop calling on you, or you answer wrong - and it'll be funny for everyone.
9. There's ego everywhere. From blue collar to white collar, to Industry to Academia.
10. Always have a plan B, C, D. Even if you don't like the plans.
11. While on the internet, don't click on buttons that say "Download" or "From the Web"
12. Think about what you know and then throw it out the window. Dare to be the person that'll question "Truths".
13. History is only stupid in school. History is quite fun and will provide a gateway to learn from others' mistakes.
14. Don't think you can't pay your taxes. See Section 6.
15. Gay or not, your significant other can still be a asshole. You can't escape this truth by playing for the other team.
16. Learning to motivate others into doing what you want them to do is the best skill you'll ever have. Learn to see what makes people tick quickly and use that for good.
17. Always act like someone is watching you.
18. Cover your Ass. Document everything.
19. Delete my harddrive when I die.
20. Your mom loves you very much. I love you slightly less. But still enough to wipe your overflowing poo bum and forgive you for all those open mouth throwups (into my mouth) as a child. I gave up my dreams of a expensive sports/muscle car for your education. Appreciate this.
21. Blood doesn't make a family. It's the people that will be there for you when you're down, that make you family. Those are the people you want in your life. Keep them close.
22. People will love you for your success. People will hate you for it too.
23. Don't go into debt. Do not go into debt. No debt. You'll spend a lot of time and effort into thinking about it.
24. Your appearance and mannerisms is a direct reflection of me. Act like a young man or woman.
25. Goto the gym often.
26. Always goto the doctor for a small problem, before it grows into a large problem.
27. VPNs are your friend.
 
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Have to wonder what age is young enough to be exempt from the piracy training? Childhood is about learning things. Can't learn everything at once or kids would only need kindergarten, after which they would be ready to move out and get jobs as judges.

I think that many adults forget all the stupid, illegal, and risky stuff they did when they were young and we get rulings like this.
 
I'm living in germany right now and I am not surprised, they have some stupid rules over here, can't wait to get back to the states.
 
This is a ridiculous finding. I'm not sure what the appeals process is like in Germany, but this sure looks like a lower level judge going off the deep end, and needing an appeals court to set him straight.

You can't hold people liable for crimes their family commits.
 
Looking back, my parents had no clue over the stuff I used to do as a teenager. Some of it they wouldn't even understand the concept! I used to pirate games on the C64. They wouldn't have known about this at all - I was just hanging out with my computer friends. What about some of the phone phreaking and other things? Not even a concept for them. Stupid rule.
 
The stuff I did as a kid would of landed me in jail today, and that was back in the 80s. Things are just beyond ridiculous now
 
This is a ridiculous finding. I'm not sure what the appeals process is like in Germany, but this sure looks like a lower level judge going off the deep end, and needing an appeals court to set him straight.

You can't hold people liable for crimes their family commits.

Not that I agree with this ruling AT ALL.... but sorry, if your kids grab a baseball bat and beat the neighbors car... guess who is liable?
 
You can't hold people liable for crimes their family commits.
They do hold people liable for other family members especially if those family members live with them in the USA. If your kid becomes a dealer even without your knowledge the DEA can come arrest them, seize your house (for evidence) and make you homeless. They can also not return your property but auction it off and keep the proceeds for themselves.
 
They do hold people liable for other family members especially if those family members live with them in the USA. If your kid becomes a dealer even without your knowledge the DEA can come arrest them, seize your house (for evidence) and make you homeless. They can also not return your property but auction it off and keep the proceeds for themselves.


Yes, this is a major controversy. Many argue they are incorrectly applying laws intended to fight organized crime.

IMHO, on the topic of civil asset forfeiture police are illegally and unconstitutionally abusing these laws and victim.izing innocent people.
 
This is a ridiculous finding. I'm not sure what the appeals process is like in Germany, but this sure looks like a lower level judge going off the deep end, and needing an appeals court to set him straight.

You can't hold people liable for crimes their family commits.

But you are responsible for your children are you not? If your 5 year old steals a candy bar from the store and eats it, can you claim that you shouldn't have to pay for the candy bar since you didn't steal it and your 5 year old has no money? You did a bad job as a parent there for not reaching your 5 year old that things cost money and that you just can't take and eat a candy bar in the store without paying for it. In this case the 11 year old can't be sued for his action as he has no money to pay such as fine, so it would fall to the parents who are financially responsible for him.
 
But you are responsible for your children are you not? If your 5 year old steals a candy bar from the store and eats it, can you claim that you shouldn't have to pay for the candy bar since you didn't steal it and your 5 year old has no money? You did a bad job as a parent there for not reaching your 5 year old that things cost money and that you just can't take and eat a candy bar in the store without paying for it. In this case the 11 year old can't be sued for his action as he has no money to pay such as fine, so it would fall to the parents who are financially responsible for him.

No that is true.

While it was clear from the article we were talking about a little kid, in my mind it was still an adult child.

I guess the question is, at what point does that responsibility end?

There are clear cut cases. When a young child grabs a candy bar in a store, the parents are responsible and should pay for it (or return it if unopened)

Similarly, and adult child, 18 years or older are responsible for themselves.

The grey area I know very little about is about things that happen during the adolescent years. If you have a troubled teen who runs away and steals a car or sells drugs, is the parent responsible?

I'd be curious how the law typically treats cases like they. I don't have any knowledge about these things.
 
No that is true.

While it was clear from the article we were talking about a little kid, in my mind it was still an adult child.

I guess the question is, at what point does that responsibility end?

There are clear cut cases. When a young child grabs a candy bar in a store, the parents are responsible and should pay for it (or return it if unopened)

Similarly, and adult child, 18 years or older are responsible for themselves.

The grey area I know very little about is about things that happen during the adolescent years. If you have a troubled teen who runs away and steals a car or sells drugs, is the parent responsible?

I'd be curious how the law typically treats cases like they. I don't have any knowledge about these things.

All of those things depend on the severity of the crime and the case surrounding the crime. Some crimes they still get treated as a juvenile while others they are go to trial as an adult. When they are tried as a juvenile some states have laws in place that make the parents responsible as they view it as until your child is an adult you are responsible for them and as such should be keeping them from committing crimes. If you have a troubled teen like in your example, I would imagine that your role in everything would play into if you are responsible or not. If you tried to teach them right from wrong, tried to get them help and called the police on them. I could see you not being charged, if you are selling drugs yourself, or living a life that teaches them that is how to act, then you are responsible. If it is in the middle and you didn't teach them that kind of a life, but you also didn't do anything to stop it and allowed them to act how they were without any action being taken, then again I could see you being responsible as you putting no effort into correcting the behavior is the same as supporting and encouraging the behavior.

http://www.legalmatch.com/law-library/article/parental-responsibility-for-juvenile-crime.html

This site gives some examples of where parents can be held responsible. One of those listed for the USA is internet crimes.

Now yes, if the "child" is over 18 then that is a different case and anything done to the parents normally would be considered excessive then. But in the case here of the 11 year old, that ruling is no different than how it would be viewed in the USA with the current laws in many states.
 
Add another thing to teach your child:

1. Don't enter white vans.
2. Don't blindly believe anything anyone tells you.
3. Google everything. Except at school, or work.
4. Watch all the episodes of Battlestar Galactica, Star trek and Star Wars (movies).
5. Preorder all the games. Wait to redeem them or open the package. You know you want that shiny DLC and I don't blame you.
6. If you have enough money, you can do no wrong.
7. It's always about who you know.
8. Sit in the front row and raise your hand. Even if you don't know the answer. The teacher will most likely stop calling on you, or you answer wrong - and it'll be funny for everyone.
9. There's ego everywhere. From blue collar to white collar, to Industry to Academia.
10. Always have a plan B, C, D. Even if you don't like the plans.
11. While on the internet, don't click on buttons that say "Download" or "From the Web"
12. Think about what you know and then throw it out the window. Dare to be the person that'll question "Truths".
13. History is only stupid in school. History is quite fun and will provide a gateway to learn from others' mistakes.
14. Don't think you can't pay your taxes. See Section 6.
15. Gay or not, your significant other can still be a asshole. You can't escape this truth by playing for the other team.
16. Learning to motivate others into doing what you want them to do is the best skill you'll ever have. Learn to see what makes people tick quickly and use that for good.
17. Always act like someone is watching you.
18. Cover your Ass. Document everything.
19. Delete my harddrive when I die.
20. Your mom loves you very much. I love you slightly less. But still enough to wipe your overflowing poo bum and forgive you for all those open mouth throwups (into my mouth) as a child. I gave up my dreams of a expensive sports/muscle car for your education. Appreciate this.
21. Blood doesn't make a family. It's the people that will be there for you when you're down, that make you family. Those are the people you want in your life. Keep them close.
22. People will love you for your success. People will hate you for it too.
23. Don't go into debt. Do not go into debt. No debt. You'll spend a lot of time and effort into thinking about it.
24. Your appearance and mannerisms is a direct reflection of me. Act like a young man or woman.
25. Goto the gym often.
26. Always goto the doctor for a small problem, before it grows into a large problem.
27. VPNs are your friend.
^The real lesson the father should have taught.

 
But you are responsible for your children are you not? If your 5 year old steals a candy bar from the store and eats it, can you claim that you shouldn't have to pay for the candy bar since you didn't steal it and your 5 year old has no money? You did a bad job as a parent there for not reaching your 5 year old that things cost money and that you just can't take and eat a candy bar in the store without paying for it. In this case the 11 year old can't be sued for his action as he has no money to pay such as fine, so it would fall to the parents who are financially responsible for him.

I do agree with this but even the judge knew that the father had instructed the boy to use the computer for only school purposes and not to do anything illegal. At eleven years old a child knows about taking/stealing at this point, this should have been handled differently in my opinion especially, as just mentioned, the father told him not to do such things. Also, a 5 year old kid doesn't understand laws and thievery yet, the age gap does matter.
 
So the birds and the bees... and piracy. Man, they are always changing the parenting handbook.
 
I do agree with this but even the judge knew that the father had instructed the boy to use the computer for only school purposes and not to do anything illegal. At eleven years old a child knows about taking/stealing at this point, this should have been handled differently in my opinion especially, as just mentioned, the father told him not to do such things. Also, a 5 year old kid doesn't understand laws and thievery yet, the age gap does matter.

Yes there is a difference in the age gap, however how does that 11 year old know about that if you haven't taught them about what is and isn't theft?

We all know that piracy is that huge gray area, one that most adults don't even seem to understand is considered illegal. My sister was asking me last week was Kodi was as her friend told her to install that and then they could help her get every movie out in the theater or that will be coming out to theaters in the next few weeks. When my sister told her friend that she didn't think that was legal the response she received was that it has to be legal since you can download them off the internet. So agree or disagree with copyright laws and if piracy should be a crime or not, your kids have to be taught that you are not supposed to do that and that it could get them in trouble. Yes the father told him not to do anything other than school work, but never told him that watching videos on YouTube when he isn't supposed to is much different from downloading every new movie playing in every major country from piratesbay. Without proper teaching both are equally as bad if you aren't supposed to be watching videos since you don't know that one is illegal and one is just something you were told not to do.
 
Yes there is a difference in the age gap, however how does that 11 year old know about that if you haven't taught them about what is and isn't theft?

We all know that piracy is that huge gray area, one that most adults don't even seem to understand is considered illegal. My sister was asking me last week was Kodi was as her friend told her to install that and then they could help her get every movie out in the theater or that will be coming out to theaters in the next few weeks. When my sister told her friend that she didn't think that was legal the response she received was that it has to be legal since you can download them off the internet. So agree or disagree with copyright laws and if piracy should be a crime or not, your kids have to be taught that you are not supposed to do that and that it could get them in trouble. Yes the father told him not to do anything other than school work, but never told him that watching videos on YouTube when he isn't supposed to is much different from downloading every new movie playing in every major country from piratesbay. Without proper teaching both are equally as bad if you aren't supposed to be watching videos since you don't know that one is illegal and one is just something you were told not to do.

It kind of is a grey area honestly, you do make a good points though, I reread the article and it says he (the child) was not told it was illegal. I guess you are right there, I think he should have to pay court costs and the price of the audiobook since it was done out of ignorance (of it being illegal). Like the candybar comparison you had given, like you wouldn't pay the storeowner 20 bucks for the "stolen" candybar. Almost a thousand dollars for a book is a little ridiculous.
 
all of this is none-sense. Its simple, if it exist on the web then so be it, just go after the people that makes it available, not the people that finds the stuff and downloads it. We don't have time to parent this shit, there so much we can do with our children, they will continue doing whatever with or without our consent. Its like going to the store that sells illegal material, don't stop the people that visits and buys? that makes no sense, just go after the owner who sells it, only that person is accountable.
 
But you are responsible for your children are you not? If your 5 year old steals a candy bar from the store and eats it, can you claim that you shouldn't have to pay for the candy bar since you didn't steal it and your 5 year old has no money?.
As long as you're OK with your 5 year old child going to jail, sure. Somebody pays for the crime. If mommy or daddy don't want the responsibility, they give up their kid. Simple. Then when they want their kid back, they can go serve the time, or penalty, with interest of course, as well as costs for incarcerating the kid.
 
This is a ridiculous finding. I'm not sure what the appeals process is like in Germany, but this sure looks like a lower level judge going off the deep end, and needing an appeals court to set him straight.

You can't hold people liable for crimes their family commits.

Not for crimes, but you can hold them civilly liable which is not the same thing by half.
 
I do agree with this but even the judge knew that the father had instructed the boy to use the computer for only school purposes and not to do anything illegal. At eleven years old a child knows about taking/stealing at this point, this should have been handled differently in my opinion especially, as just mentioned, the father told him not to do such things. Also, a 5 year old kid doesn't understand laws and thievery yet, the age gap does matter.

Actually the Judge said that the Father might have been lying about having told his kid about only using the computer for school stuff.
 
all of this is none-sense. Its simple, if it exist on the web then so be it, just go after the people that makes it available, not the people that finds the stuff and downloads it. We don't have time to parent this shit, there so much we can do with our children, they will continue doing whatever with or without our consent. Its like going to the store that sells illegal material, don't stop the people that visits and buys? that makes no sense, just go after the owner who sells it, only that person is accountable.

So I'm not accountable if I go to a pawn shop and buy a fully automatic weapon?

Just throwing it out there?

Can I get away with buying a 14 year old girl?
 
So I'm not accountable if I go to a pawn shop and buy a fully automatic weapon?

Just throwing it out there?

Can I get away with buying a 14 year old girl?

well damn, what kind of pawn shops do you live around? haha :p
 
Maybe the court overeacted because the kid downloaded 'Mein Kampf'? :p

I'm glad I'm not a German and have to carry that inherited baggage.

It's bad enough that I'm responsible for the genocide of the American Indians, Slavery, the Phu Bai Massacre, and Furbies
 
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