So who will rain on who's parade?

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Stoly

Supreme [H]ardness
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With only a few days until both Vega and the 1080Ti are finally announced.

Who will take the lead? Will nvidia continue to dominate on the high end or wil AMD will make a comeback much as like it seems its doing with Ryzen vs intel.

My take is that Vega will meat or slightly beat the 1080Ti depending on the game (more so on Vulkan and DX12), but Titan X will still be the undisputed champion.

And if Ryzen pricing is any indication we could see a price war and we customers love those. So its a win win for us.

Then again Volta is apparently coming out really soon so even if Vega takes over, nvidia could still strike back.
 
I hope it is more AMD raining on Nvidia's parade because that can only mean one thing, lower prices for existing high end performance. I dont think anyone is expecting greater than Titan XP levels of performance here, just similar performance or slower for less.
 
I'm more hopeful for AMD in the CPU market. AMD gaining market share and building off of a hopefully strong foundation with Ryzen could be awesome for everyone.

I just don't 'trust' AMD GPU's right now even given the same performance. It's been a while for me (6 years, Radeon 5850 was last real GPU), but both my own and friends experience has encountered less issues, bugs, and artifacts from Nvidia GPUs than AMD/ATI.

I do hope Vega is in the 1070 to Titan XP range of performance (or more), to keep things interesting and competitive, but if I'm going to drop $600-$900 on a GPU it's going to be Nvidia.
 
I hope it's more like they're sharing one umbrella and are both taking turns getting wet, but one side is not completely soaked.

I'm biased towards AMD (Freesync monitor), but I'd like to get out of a situation where one company is so dominating at the high end. I'd like to be able to go out, make a purchase of a high end GPU from either vendor, and knowing that whatever I choose would be comparable to their competitors part. Plus pricing is always been with level competition.
 
I'm locked into nVidia for now with G-Sync, but I'd honestly love to see AMD clobber them. Give me a reason to want to go back to Team Red.
 
I'm surprised this thread exists. Lets be very honest, The RX4X0 series did not deliver what it should have. You asking, HEY GUYS THINK AMD (Who can't match the 1080 or Titan X (let alone the 1070)) WILL RAIN ON THE PARADE OF NVIDIA's 1080TI WITH VEGA?

No.

Hell No.

Here is why: The gap between the GTX1060 and the GTX1080 or Titan Series card is pretty significant in benchmarks, The Titan X(p) is almost twice the card as the GTX1060 in terms of raw performance. The RX480 trades blows with the GTX1060, it runs hotter and uses more power than the Green counterpart. Regardless of what fanboys say, the RX480's did not overclock well. Now, NVIDIA announces the 1080Ti, which means if competition is great enough we may just see the 1070Ti and 1060Ti as well. IF, and I mean IF, AMD manages to get Vega to the 1070/1080 performance, the Ti Series will be launched by NVIDIA like in the 7xx gen and will dethrone AMD from being the best performing card for the price tiers.

NVIDIA has deeper pockets and based off my thermal readings from my 1060, plenty of room to start tossing power and heat towards their chips to get more performance out of them. If a 1060Ti existed for $250ish that came out in a year, that had a TDP of 200watts, but performed like a 1070 or just shy of a 1080 of today, AMD would lose tons of sales to these cards and NVIDIA wouldn't have to do much to get it there.

Now, this is my opinion. I hope I'm wrong, my last AMD card in my system was called ATI, the X1900XTX, I really want to see them return to this market strong.
 
I hope the Vega mimics Ryzen's strategy. Vega may not beat a 1080Ti but hopefully cost much less. So if Vega can give better than GTX1080 performance for GTX 1070 price, well fine by me.
 
After the flop of Polaris I'm not expecting much from Vega. A 1080 catch-up at best. But by the time Vega gets onto shelves we'll be looking at Volta which will be a one sided slaughter and around and around it goes.
 
Considering nvidia may be bringing the 1080ti out way too soon shows they are concerned with the traction and attention AMD is getting. The only thing nvidia is doing is affecting their own lineup, shuffling things, prices around w/o a clear reason.
 
thesmokingman said:
Considering nvidia may be bringing the 1080ti out way too soon shows they are concerned with the traction and attention AMD is getting. The only thing nvidia is doing is affecting their own lineup, shuffling things, prices around w/o a clear reason.
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I don't think it's "too soon"...it's pretty much inline with the 980ti release. They do have Volta in the works, and they can't sit on the 1080ti too long or they'll cut into those sales.
 
Bandalo said:
I don't think it's "too soon"...it's pretty much inline with the 980ti release. They do have Volta in the works, and they can't sit on the 1080ti too long or they'll cut into those sales.
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They have no competitor so they don't even need to make a Ti. It's a fix for a problem that doesn't exist.
 
thesmokingman said:
They have no competitor so they don't even need to make a Ti. It's a fix for a problem that doesn't exist.
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Unless it's more based on available silicon...like Titan XP chips that didn't make the final cut.

And they DO have a pretty big gap in their lineup, from the 1080 to the Titan XP is a huge price gap. Might not be a HUGE problem, but there's probably an unexploited market there.
 
Bandalo said:
Unless it's more based on available silicon...like Titan XP chips that didn't make the final cut.

And they DO have a pretty big gap in their lineup, from the 1080 to the Titan XP is a huge price gap. Might not be a HUGE problem, but there's probably an unexploited market there.
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I still don't see the point. They're only doing "it" to themselves and annoying their own customers. And buyers who can afford $900-$1000 gpus would probably have been the same buyers who could afford $1.2k gpus.
 
thesmokingman said:
I still don't see the point. They're only doing "it" to themselves and annoying their own customers. And buyers who can afford $900-$1000 gpus would probably have been the same buyers who could afford $1.2k gpus.
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Well, I think the questions may be answered once we see the final price and how it shakes out with the existing product stack. I don't see the Titan getting cheaper, but I could see this come out as a $700-800 card and maybe shift some other prices as well. I'm sure Nvidia has done far more detailed market studies than my arm-chair efforts.
 
Bandalo said:
Well, I think the questions may be answered once we see the final price and how it shakes out with the existing product stack. I don't see the Titan getting cheaper, but I could see this come out as a $700-800 card and maybe shift some other prices as well. I'm sure Nvidia has done far more detailed market studies than my arm-chair efforts.
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Does it make sense to price the Ti at 700, 100 more than 1080? Clearly it doesn't, nor does make any damn sense to lower their prices when they have no competition. The obvious price point to not affect the rest of their lineup is 900 half way in between the 1080. Whatever they do, may make some happy customers but at the same time they are gonna piss off others. Thus there really is no clear point. Then it starts to look like they want to and are willing to get themselves some limelight.

Like Intel, I think Nv are concerned. If AMD can possibly bridge the gap with Intel in one fell swoop in their sorry condition, what will Vega bring?
 
Better be a big lead for team red. The company is bleeding cash like a stuck pig. Much as I want AMD to thrive, Ryzen and Vega success seems make or break for them going forward.
 
I still don't see the point. They're only doing "it" to themselves and annoying their own customers. And buyers who can afford $900-$1000 gpus would probably have been the same buyers who could afford $1.2k gpus.
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Unless it's a 800 dollar-ish gpu. For those willing to spring for sli to get 100fps avg and better in order to get any real motion clarity and motion definition increases at 144hz on a 1440p or 4k resolution - that would be $1600+ to 1700 vs 2400+ on the titans. Even single card I stubbornly waited through the titan tax period for the real gaming card of that tier to be released. I refuse to pay 1/3 more for the same gaming performance on titan bait just because Nvidia wants to milk titan prices from gamers first. I refused to buy a card or especially a monitor without dp 1.4 after a point too. Going forward I won't buy another display without FALD, 144hz, 1440 to 4k, HDR gsync for the next step. I'm just not willing to take short game bait anymore
 
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thesmokingman said:
Does it make sense to price the Ti at 700, 100 more than 1080? Clearly it doesn't, nor does make any damn sense to lower their prices when they have no competition. The obvious price point to not affect the rest of their lineup is 900 half way in between the 1080. Whatever they do, may make some happy customers but at the same time they are gonna piss off others. Thus there really is no clear point. Then it starts to look like they want to and are willing to get themselves some limelight.

Like Intel, I think Nv are concerned. If AMD can possibly bridge the gap with Intel in one fell swoop in their sorry condition, what will Vega bring?
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Lowering or changing prices, even with no competition, DOES sometimes make sense. It depends largely on the current demand and what their supply looks like. GPUs are a time-sensitive item, especially the high-end ones. They need to have all the levels of inventory cleared out before the next gen chips hit the market.

I don't think Nvidia has been nearly as complacent as Intel. There's been significant improvements at the top end each generation, not just a 5-10% bump. Lots of new tech, lower power, better VR support, etc, etc. I'd like to see more competition for sure, but I seriously doubt AMD will de-throne Nvidia anytime soon.
 
Susquehannock said:
Better be a big lead for team red. The company is bleeding cash like a stuck pig. Much as I want AMD to thrive, Ryzen and Vega success seems make or break for them going forward.
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They haven't been bleeding cash, what they are is holding onto a lot of debt which they've been reducing. Iirc they have actually posted a profit.
 
thesmokingman said:
They haven't been bleeding cash, what they are is holding onto a lot of debt which they've been reducing. Iirc they have actually posted a profit.
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Indeed. Almost 1.5 billion in debt last quarter. Further proof management has everything riding on these new releases. With shares short rising substantially in the last month, appears many are betting it won't pan out. We'll see.
 
Stoly said:
With only a few days until both Vega and the 1080Ti are finally announced.

Who will take the lead? Will nvidia continue to dominate on the high end or wil AMD will make a comeback much as like it seems its doing with Ryzen vs intel.

My take is that Vega will meat or slightly beat the 1080Ti depending on the game (more so on Vulkan and DX12), but Titan X will still be the undisputed champion.

And if Ryzen pricing is any indication we could see a price war and we customers love those. So its a win win for us.

Then again Volta is apparently coming out really soon so even if Vega takes over, nvidia could still strike back.
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You sure do live in a fantasy world.
 
Depends how much faster Vega is from vanilla 1080. If it's same level or about 5-10% faster then, if Nv "does Pascal" and cuts the 1080 price to 1070 level, then AMD can't call Ti prices for Vega

Also, if - from leaked benchmarks - 580 is at 1070 speed and 1070 price gets slashed too, it would mean that it would also have to be launched at a price not much higher.

It would look like NV is dictating prices to AMD. Because the whole lineup will be launching not at current price levels, for which they were properly preparing, but at new, cheaper ones - otherwise it will end up like Fury/Fury X - those were good cards, but FuryX costed as much as 980 ti, but was outperformed by it. Same with "vanilla" Fury, which was more expensive than 980.
 
I see Nvidia in great position to be very flexible with somewhat a mystery on Vega costs and performance. If Nvidia has a sufficient number of 3rd tier GP 102s which can compete decently with Vega or just plain out beat it - more importantly make money for Nvidia then yes. If yields are so good now that full enabled GP102s are plentiful and the rest are TitanXP tier - Nvidia could just shift down making the 2nd tier 1180Ti and a fully enabled faster DDR5x ram Titan Black, both new models and discontinue the Titan XP. Now you would have a TitanXP performance less then $1000 and a higher performing part over $1000.

Now if Vega is a super part and performs better then the TitanXP (no indication of this), Nvidia could bring GP100 with hbm into the picture for a Titan Ultimate version let say. Hard for me seeing AMD being top dog if Nvidia plays their GPUs as needed. AMD will be perf/$ options is what I see.

Plus I don't see AMD really hitting hard until this summer for the Vega Skews, basically giving away a year at the high end.

I expect top Vega to be 20%+ in general over the 1080, if not then I would say it will be sorta weak and will need a very good price like matching the 1080 price if it performs better more times then not.
 
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If Vega can match the 1080 for ~$500 I'm in. Anything less and I'll keep using the 295.
 
There is room for both, AMD just needs a solid product that is WORTH owning right now. Price to performance is what kicks it now. Yeah it needs to deliver to a certain extent and if it can deliver close to 1080 performance for less cost it will not beat NV, but at least steal back some customers.

My last Nvidia was an 8800 GTX (nuked upgrade to 9800). Whichever has the best performance for the cost and potential longevity in this race will be my next card.
 
HeavensCloud said:
If Vega can match the 1080 for ~$500 I'm in. Anything less and I'll keep using the 295.
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I'm sorry but that sounds really stupid to me. The 1080 will have been out for a whole freaking year by the time Vega launches so how the hell is that impressive at all to save a little over $100 for performance you could have already had during that whole year?
 
misterbobby said:
I'm sorry but that sounds really stupid to me. The 1080 will have been out for a whole freaking year by the time Vega launches so how the hell is that impressive at all to save a little over $100 for performance you could have already had during that whole year?
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I have a Freesync monitor and don't want to buy a different one. Any other questions friend?
 
misterbobby said:
I'm sorry but that sounds really stupid to me. The 1080 will have been out for a whole freaking year by the time Vega launches so how the hell is that impressive at all to save a little over $100 for performance you could have already had during that whole year?
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Product cycles have gotten so long that we've lost all sense of perspective.
"As long as AMD releases a GTX 1080 competitor before I die in the year 2080, I'll consider it a win for them."
We've been playing the Wait for Zen™ game for 2 years!

If Vega does have a good launch, a year after Pascal, people will still be like "AMD IS BACK! THEY CRUSHED PASCAL!" Well duh, I would fucking hope so. That's like one of those retard marathons where a guy takes an hour to run a mile and everybody cheers.

I'm getting old here, AMD.
 
Stoly said:
With only a few days until both Vega and the 1080Ti are finally announced.
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Only one of them gets announced as a card.

Stoly said:
My take is that Vega will meat or slightly beat the 1080Ti depending on the game (more so on Vulkan and DX12), but Titan X will still be the undisputed champion.
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Vega 10 has already been demoed. And it struggles against the regular GTX 1080. 1080TI/Titan is an entirely different league.
 
Okay originally I wrote a post here saying I don't think four SKUs (Vega 10 & 11) could fit between the 480 and the 1080 but it's definitely possible.
The 1080 is ~70% faster than the 480 on average which slices into four tiers of 17.5% perf difference.
 
TaintedSquirrel said:
Product cycles have gotten so long that we've lost all sense of perspective.
"As long as AMD releases a GTX 1080 competitor before I die in the year 2080, I'll consider it a win for them."
We've been playing the Wait for Zen™ game for 2 years!

If Vega does have a good launch, a year after Pascal, people will still be like "AMD IS BACK! THEY CRUSHED PASCAL!" Well duh, I would fucking hope so. That's like one of those retard marathons where a guy takes an hour to run a mile and everybody cheers.

I'm getting old here, AMD.
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Exactly, the Titan XP is a borderline 4K 60fps card so I need something faster than that.
If AMD doesn't have a card faster than Titan XP after almost a year (based on Vega release date), it's a failure to me and I'll stay with Nvidia.

Can't be nearly a year late, at the end of your competitors product cycles (Intel and Nvidia) and call it competition.
 
WorldExclusive said:
Exactly, the Titan XP is a borderline 4K 60fps card so I need something faster than that.
If AMD doesn't have a card faster than Titan XP after almost a year (based on Vega release date), it's a failure to me and I'll stay with Nvidia.

Can't be nearly a year late, at the end of your competitors product cycles (Intel and Nvidia) and call it competition.
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You might have a point if AMD was healthy and they just let the ball drop, except they were inches from bankruptcy with a bil and half of debt and fighting to stay afloat on two fronts. That they just came back on one of those fronts is astounding. Thus no one expects them to be able to stay step for step with the giants they compete with except maybe you?
 
My expectation is for the vega chip to be slightly ahead of a 1080, and nowhere close to a 1080 ti.


For me that is enough, but it won't change the dynamics. It will staunch the bleeding on the higher end where amd has nothing, but they need a win to actually gain marketshare.


The strategy of launching the 480 first to mop up the mid tier sales was a disaster, nvidia just upped its launch of the 1060 and now they have a full slate against amds half slate, and in the half it's behind in a lot of the games people want to play.


Not good enough for non fanboys like myself. If nothing else, they need to switch to a mode where they release mid to high end at the same time, not a year later where nvidia just gets to soak up all the sales.
 
thesmokingman said:
You might have a point if AMD was healthy and they just let the ball drop, except they were inches from bankruptcy with a bil and half of debt and fighting to stay afloat on two fronts. That they just came back on one of those fronts is astounding. Thus no one expects them to be able to stay step for step with the giants they compete with except maybe you?
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Profit is all that matters. I don't plan to buy if it's slower than 2016 tech.
I also don't plan to buy the 1080Ti because I consider that 2016 tech as well.

I'm very patient in waiting for the next card to beat the Titan XP.
Volta will come out probably late this year and AMD will only have a refresh of Vega to answer next year which still won't be enough.

AMD is in no position to compete that will earn enough money to increase R&D to match Nvidia.
People will be happy to buy 1080 performance for $400 or so but AMD's really needed to sell it for $600. That's AMD problem for the last 8+ years.
 
WorldExclusive said:
Profit is all that matters. I don't plan to buy if it's slower than 2016 tech.
I also don't plan to buy the 1080Ti because I consider that 2016 tech as well.
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Now here is a radical proposal. Imagine...buying due to performance metrics and features. But in your case it seems you have to wait for Volta.
 
HeavensCloud said:
I have a Freesync monitor and don't want to buy a different one. Any other questions friend?
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Same feelings, difference camp. Even If AMD would come with similar performance as 1080 and best cheaper, I'd still go with NV because cost of swapping g-sync for free-sync would eat the price difference.

Right now it's getting like with iOS/Android or Canon/Nikon. If you have large portfolio of apps or lenses in one system, you won't swap, because the cost of a migration would be too high.
 
MorgothPl said:
Right now it's getting like with iOS/Android or Canon/Nikon. If you have large portfolio of apps or lenses in one system, you won't swap, because the cost of a migration would be too high.
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It's almost as if they plan it that way. :eek:
 
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