Apple Slams PCs in New iPad Pro Ad Campaign

Surface Pro is substantially better for stylus functionality as it is.

Also, the fact that you can run a normal full-blown desktop OS on the Surface Pro gives it far more value over the stupid iPad 'Pro'.

Guess which one runs a normal office suite, and the normal applications a professional needs?

It's not the iPad.

My wife uses a Surface Pro at school and tells me stories constantly about all the dumb kids using iPad's in classes versus normal laptops / a surface and they basically aren't as efficient getting school work done for obvious reasons.
 
Mchart said:
Surface Pro is substantially better for stylus functionality as it is.

Also, the fact that you can run a normal full-blown desktop OS on the Surface Pro gives it far more value over the stupid iPad 'Pro'.

Guess which one runs a normal office suite, and the normal applications a professional needs?

It's not the iPad.

My wife uses a Surface Pro at school and tells me stories constantly about all the dumb kids using iPad's in classes versus normal laptops / a surface and they basically aren't as efficient getting school work done for obvious reasons.
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According to who? Artists generally prefer the iPad Pro for less lag, accuracy, pressure sensitivity etc. Which is what a stylus is designed for...

Running a full desktop OS... LOL yes a desktop OS that was never designed to be touch based. We were going to roll out Surface Pro's at work, half the digitizers died on the trial machines and the others had to be calibrated... seriously who the hell has to calibrate a touch screen these days...

You just want a desktop OS because you want Windows, it has nothing to do with functionality. iOS is capable of most stuff you need to do on a daily basis if you actually set it up with the correct apps the same you would have to do with windows.
 
aokman said:
According to who? Artists generally prefer the iPad Pro for less lag, accuracy, pressure sensitivity etc. Which is what a stylus is designed for...

Running a full desktop OS... LOL yes a desktop OS that was never designed to be touch based. We were going to roll out Surface Pro's at work, half the digitizers died on the trial machines and the others had to be calibrated... seriously who the hell has to calibrate a touch screen these days...

You just want a desktop OS because you want Windows, it has nothing to do with functionality. iOS is capable of most stuff you need to do on a daily basis if you actually set it up with the correct apps the same you would have to do with windows.
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The Surface Pro 4 is across the board pretty highly rated, I can't imagine the failures you're describing are widespread. A lot has been added to Windows 10 to help with using that used to be only desktop OS on tablets and a lot of desktop apps these days have touch and ink support build into them now.

As I said earlier, a couple of these ads are touting features, like ink support in Word that's been available for Word on Windows for 15 years, long before even the original iPad. And Windows 10 supports both the desktop version of Office, which has a lot of ink and touch features along with mobile version which is essentially the same app the iPad Pro runs. And you can still use both versions with a mouse, try that on an iPad.

The iPad Pro may suit some folks better, the pencil might be a bit better than the Surface Pen, but it's not a night and day thing and in a app like Word, ink support in the full desktop version has a lot of options you would haven't in the mobile version, like add-ins, macros, etc.
 
heatlesssun said:
The Surface Pro 4 is across the board pretty highly rated, I can't imagine the failures you're describing are widespread. A lot has been added to Windows 10 to help with using that used to be only desktop OS on tablets and a lot of desktop apps these days have touch and ink support build into them now.

As I said earlier, a couple of these ads are touting features, like ink support in Word that's been available for Word on Windows for 15 years, long before even the original iPad. And Windows 10 supports both the desktop version of Office, which has a lot of ink and touch features along with mobile version which is essentially the same app the iPad Pro runs. And you can still use both versions with a mouse, try that on an iPad.

The iPad Pro may suit some folks better, the pencil might be a bit better than the Surface Pen, but it's not a night and day thing and in a app like Word, ink support in the full desktop version has a lot of options you would haven't in the mobile version, like add-ins, macros, etc.
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Saying the surface is better because you can use a mouse is like saying it sucks as a tablet so you can use a mouse anyway.

My opinion is tablets and laptops were never meant to cross over. They have completely different usages that favour different features such as the iPads instant on and off and long battery life. Not to mention touch ID etc.

Laptops are for setting up and getting real productivity done, tablets are for quick access, convenience and a compromise providing the pen interface isnt the primary use for artists etc.

Yes the pro can be used as a pro device for specific usages such as artists and content creators. With the right apps it can handle office work if you so desire and setup workflows accordingly.

I personally hope Apple never incorporate the touch into their laptops, i dont want to be forced to put fingerprints on my screen because of UI design. I have never been out in the field on my laptop and though, gee this would be so much easier on a tablet...
 
aokman said:
Saying the surface is better because you can use a mouse is like saying it sucks as a tablet so you can use a mouse anyway.
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You can run a mobile version of Office on a Windows 10 tablet and it's pretty much exactly the same version of Office that runs on the iPad Pro, touch works pretty much the same. If you wanted to work with multiple documents on larger and/or multiple screens, you hook a Surface up to a dock and then you can run Office just like on a desktop. To that with an iPad Pro, all you have to do is buy a MacBook.

aokman said:
My opinion is tablets and laptops were never meant to cross over. They have completely different usages that favour different features such as the iPads instant on and off and long battery life. Not to mention touch ID etc.
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Battery life on Windows devices if getting pretty good now. Windows supports instant on and off and there's Windows Hello, just look at the machine to log in.


aokman said:
Laptops are for setting up and getting real productivity done, tablets are for quick access, convenience and a compromise providing the pen interface isnt the primary use for artists etc.
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The Surface Book is a great laptop and can be used as big ass tablet for spats. Pretty terrific machine and looking for to the next version. I think a lot of people are arguing the concept of a hybrid UI and fail to recognize that it actually is working pretty well on Windows now.
 
heatlesssun said:
You can run a mobile version of Office on a Windows 10 tablet and it's pretty much exactly the same version of Office that runs on the iPad Pro, touch works pretty much the same. If you wanted to work with multiple documents on larger and/or multiple screens, you hook a Surface up to a dock and then you can run Office just like on a desktop. To that with an iPad Pro, all you have to do is buy a MacBook.



Battery life on Windows devices if getting pretty good now. Windows supports instant on and off and there's Windows Hello, just look at the machine to log in.
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I would love to know what makes the Surface so special at instant on and off because my Windows 10 desktop and laptop constantly fail to go to sleep and in a couple of cases have frozen completely and cooked my laptop in its bag. As opposed to hitting an iPad's power button and just turning the screen off and nothing else.

Windows 10 battery life is not even comparable to a lightweight iOS device like an iPad pro, it is simply too heavy as an OS to be power efficient. Not to mention the iPad Pro runs cool, has no active cooling / moving parts etc. Things only get much worse once you install apps, noobs antivirus etc and Windows starts bogging down.

Aside from that the surface and iPad Pro are priced completely different... in Aus there is a $500 difference in the base models at 128gb and it only gets more and more insane the higher you go.
 
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aokman said:
I would love to know what makes the Surface so special at instant on and off because my Windows 10 desktop and laptop constantly fail to go to sleep and in a couple of cases have frozen completely and cooked my laptop in its bag. As opposed to hitting an iPad's power button and just turning the screen off and nothing else.
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I'll be the first to admit that power management in Windows is very flaky. The insane amount of hardware and software combinations add complexity that no mobile OS has to deal with. However there are devices that do it well. My Surface Book had a lot of issues with it for the first months but about a year ago Microsoft and Intel seemed to finally figure it out.

aokman said:
Windows 10 battery life is not even comparable to a lightweight iOS device like an iPad pro, it is simply too heavy as an OS to be power efficient. Not to mention the iPad Pro runs cool, has no active cooling / moving parts etc.
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It's not the OS that kills the battery, it's the applications. If I stick to UWAs like the Edge web browser, Netflix or Hulu apps, battery life on a Surface Book can hit 12 hours, start compiling apps, playing PC games, video encoding, running multiple things concurrently, things an iPad can't do, and sure you kill battery life.

aokman said:
Aside from that the surface and iPad Pro are priced completely different... in Aus there is a $500 difference in the base models at 128gb and it only gets more and more insane the higher you go.
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The iPad Pro 256 GB and Surface Pro 4 i5 8GB/256GB model in the US are both the same price at $999 USD.
 
Verge said:
Where are you getting this information man? Where do you work?

Most corporations are BYOD these days. I know for a fact Fortune 1 is.
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Come on Verge! I'm here for the entertainment...Not for factual arguments. Bleh...
 
aokman said:
According to who? Artists generally prefer the iPad Pro for less lag, accuracy, pressure sensitivity etc. Which is what a stylus is designed for...

Running a full desktop OS... LOL yes a desktop OS that was never designed to be touch based. We were going to roll out Surface Pro's at work, half the digitizers died on the trial machines and the others had to be calibrated... seriously who the hell has to calibrate a touch screen these days...

You just want a desktop OS because you want Windows, it has nothing to do with functionality. iOS is capable of most stuff you need to do on a daily basis if you actually set it up with the correct apps the same you would have to do with windows.
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The stylus/touch on my wifes surface pro 3 works great. The only downside is that the AAAA battery in the stylus runs out every couple months. Never had any digitizer issues or anything. Not sure how you can say the iPad Pro has a better stylus. I've used the stylus on both and they both work great.

The difference being that Windows 10 works in both touch and desktop mode, and my wife has the keyboard cover as well.

The level of productivity that can be done on an iPad Pro is basically nothing given that you don't have a standard OS to use. Sure - You can open word files, powerpoints, PDF's, etc. in iOS.. But it's a crappier experience and you can't get work done as fast.

The only way I could see the iPad pro being the better buy is if you use it only for drawing or something like that. That or an environment where you don't need to multitask much and are basically productive using whatever App is on iOS that you need.. For everyone else needing to do standard office/school work the Surface has way more value.

Seriously, just thinking about the logistics of making a powerpoint presentation, doing spreadsheets, or even doing simple stuff like writing a paper on the iPad Pro would be such a shitty experience.

Sure - You COULD do it, but why in fuck would you want to put yourself through that when you could have just bought a laptop or surface instead w/ a normal OS?

And again you're about the first person I've seen give a bad rating to the Surface Pro's touchscreen/stylus. I know personally after using it myself that as long as the stylus has battery power it works great. No input lag, very accurate, and generally works like i'd expect an active stylus..

Oh - And good luck using a number of work or higher education websites designed 5+ years ago using Java/Flash on iOS.

Some of us live in the real world. I love my iPhone, and iOS is very capable for what it is.. But I can only laugh at the person who wants to replace their main productivity device with an iOS based device.
 
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My professor tried using an iPad Pro to do her lecture...let's just say she went back to using the white board after about 10 minutes. I see tablets as something to consume media with, therefore they aren't essential to me. The iPad Pro is just an oxymoron IMO. While I don't really care for the surface either, I would take that over an iPad Pro any day of the week and like Mchart, I love my iPhone and MacBook.
 
Mchart said:
And again you're about the first person I've seen give a bad rating to the Surface Pro's touchscreen/stylus. I know personally after using it myself that as long as the stylus has battery power it works great. No input lag, very accurate, and generally works like i'd expect an active stylus..

Oh - And good luck using a number of work or higher education websites designed 5+ years ago using Java/Flash on iOS.
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Again it comes down to usage, I only see a stylus as a creative tool for artists / fine photo editing etc which the iPad Pro's pencil offers superior control and integration. I am sure the surface pro's pen is fine for poking and navigiating around the OS but I am with Steve jobs on this part that if you need a pen to use the OS naturally, you made a bad touch OS from the beginning.

The pencil on the iPad is a creative tool, not a tool to get around OS deficiencies.

I cant believe that anyone would let Flash play any part in a purchasing decision these days... anyone still using it should be shot.
 
Faster than most laptops? I'd like to see them prove that...

Also, is MS word free on the Apple store? because it said you just have to download it, no mention of paying for it
 
aokman said:
The pencil on the iPad is a creative tool, not a tool to get around OS deficiencies.
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And that's not what the pen is for on a modern Surface device running Windows 10 is for either. Plenty of people are using the pen on Surface devices for art. I'm not an artist but I use the hell out of the pen in OneNote. If there is a killer app for pens in Windows, it's OneNote. For that matter is a killer app for desktops with only keyboards and mice. Of all the applications I use on Windows, OneNote is something I MUST have, or something close to it.

One may install certain apps that just aren't touch capable that work better with an accurate pointing device like a pen, but there's pretty much nothing in Windows 10 on devices as small as 8" that would require a pen outside of these kinds of apps. Hell, you can install Windows 10 on an 8" tablet using only touch these days.

aokman said:
I cant believe that anyone would let Flash play any part in a purchasing decision these days... anyone still using it should be shot.
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Flash is still a big deal, at least for Windows and desktop class devices. I can watch TV, using only touch just fine on an 8" Windows 10 tablet. But it requires Flash. A shitload of the apps for phones and tablets are simply about not using Flash, Flash is easy to use on Windows devices and it doesn't even kill battery though native apps and HTML 5 video are better.
 
BloodDonor said:
Also, is MS word free on the Apple store? because it said you just have to download it, no mention of paying for it
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I think this is tied to screen size. Office is free on phones and small screen tablets at or under 8" I believe. I think that an Office 365 sub is required for full capability on devices the size of the iPad Pro.
 
heatlesssun said:
Flash is still a big deal, at least for Windows and desktop class devices. I can watch TV, using only touch just fine on an 8" Windows 10 tablet. But it requires Flash. A shitload of the apps for phones and tablets are simply about not using Flash, Flash is easy to use on Windows devices and it doesn't even kill battery though native apps and HTML 5 video are better.
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Flash is a resource hog and chews power (not to mention security holes galore), hence why Apple dug a grave for it many years ago, now Firefox and Chrome are following suit also. The only companies still using flash are ones with shitty design / coders who won't learn HTML 5. Hell even Adobe are decommissioning it...
 
Verge said:
Huh?

You said more viruses would come if they got more popular. iPhone is the most popular phone in the world.


So why aren't there more viruses exactly? How popular does something need to be? Basically, I'm calling bs on your comment.
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Re-read the second part of my comment. I wasn't just referring to percentage of the market, I was also referring to units sold. Would it help you understand what I was referring to if I chose to say "more widespread" rather than "popularity"?
 
aokman said:
Flash is a resource hog and chews power (not to mention security holes galore), hence why Apple dug a grave for it many years ago, now Firefox and Chrome are following suit also. The only companies still using flash are ones with shitty design / coders who won't learn HTML 5. Hell even Adobe are decommissioning it...
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I'm not disagreeing with what you're saying. Indeed when it comes to video content, UAWs, which don't use Flash are very efficient. However there's still a lot of Flash content out there, and much of it isn't video. Flash is going away, that really was more about HTML 5 than Apple but it's not gone entirely and it may still be needed for certain things.

In the debate over Windows 10 these days much is said about options and control. So when Apple says "Don't use Flash" or whatever, that's fine. If Microsoft had said "Don't use Flash", it's a conspiracy. And I can just about how many people would screen murder is Microsoft totally disabled Flash in Windows. No one would be saying "Good job."
 
Look; Everyone agrees Flash is a piece of shit.

That doesn't change the FACT that it is heavily used still on a lot of higher education online tools.

So go ahead and buy an iPad Pro to use as a student at College. Hope you still have a normal laptop, because you aren't going to be able to access your course material at many major public universities.
 
heatlesssun said:
And that's not what the pen is for on a modern Surface device running Windows 10 is for either. Plenty of people are using the pen on Surface devices for art. I'm not an artist but I use the hell out of the pen in OneNote. If there is a killer app for pens in Windows, it's OneNote. For that matter is a killer app for desktops with only keyboards and mice. Of all the applications I use on Windows, OneNote is something I MUST have, or something close to it.

One may install certain apps that just aren't touch capable that work better with an accurate pointing device like a pen, but there's pretty much nothing in Windows 10 on devices as small as 8" that would require a pen outside of these kinds of apps. Hell, you can install Windows 10 on an 8" tablet using only touch these days.



Flash is still a big deal, at least for Windows and desktop class devices. I can watch TV, using only touch just fine on an 8" Windows 10 tablet. But it requires Flash. A shitload of the apps for phones and tablets are simply about not using Flash, Flash is easy to use on Windows devices and it doesn't even kill battery though native apps and HTML 5 video are better.
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Have you even used a Surface Pro? The pen on the Surface pro isn't a piece of shit, and is a standard N-Trig pen that is generally agreed to be a pretty good technology.



EDIT - Sorry; Quoted the wrong guy. Meant to quote the other guy who seems to think the Surface Pro touchscreen / pen are like a Palm Pilot or something.

The iPad Pro is not some huge leap over what the Surface Pro offers when it comes to the stylus quality.
 
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heatlesssun said:
In the debate over Windows 10 these days much is said about options and control. So when Apple says "Don't use Flash" or whatever, that's fine. If Microsoft had said "Don't use Flash", it's a conspiracy. And I can just about how many people would screen murder is Microsoft totally disabled Flash in Windows. No one would be saying "Good job."
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I think you understate how much flak Apple have copped for it lol. My god it was so bad when they first announced it even though they made their reasons very clear (same reasons as today). Problem is other companies arent willing to take a PR hit and harden up.

If everyone banded together and said we stop on so and so date, we would see it die much faster.
 
aokman said:
I think you understate how much flak Apple have copped for it lol. My god it was so bad when they first announced it even though they made their reasons very clear (same reasons as today). Problem is other companies arent willing to take a PR hit and harden up.
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You really just don't get it. It doesn't matter what company x or y does when making a purchasing decision in the -present-.

Does everyone agree that Flash is a pile of shit and all companies should drop support?

Yes.

None of that changes the fact that many large corporations and education in general still heavily uses web apps built in Flash. If you are a student entering college today you'd be an idiot to have nothing but an iPad as you'll have difficulty accessing your coursework.

This is why Apple touting the iPad 'Pro' as 'THE solution' is just laughable. It's a device that can't run a multitude of different things that a student, educator, professional, etc need in February of 2017.
 
Mchart said:
Have you even used a Surface Pro? The pen on the Surface pro isn't a piece of shit, and is a standard N-Trig pen that is generally agreed to be a pretty good technology.



EDIT - Sorry; Quoted the wrong guy. Meant to quote the other guy who seems to think the Surface Pro touchscreen / pen are like a Palm Pilot or something.

The iPad Pro is not some huge leap over what the Surface Pro offers when it comes to the stylus quality.
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Yes i have used the surface pro... the touch response was decent but not good enough to beat the iPad for precise work, not to mention the screen flexed and felt like crap / draggy. I only found it useful for navigating the UI because everything is so hard to bloody click with your finger when moving files etc.
 
aokman said:
Yes i have used the surface pro... the touch response was decent but not good enough to beat the iPad for precise work, not to mention the screen flexed and felt like crap / draggy. I only found it useful for navigating the UI because everything is so hard to bloody click with your finger when moving files etc.
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So then buy a device made for drawing.

Just because the iPad Pro may be better for drawing doesn't change the objective fact that it can not do what a standard laptop / surface pro are capable of doing given that an iPad Pro is running iOS and not a desktop OS.
 
Mchart said:
EDIT - Sorry; Quoted the wrong guy. Meant to quote the other guy who seems to think the Surface Pro touchscreen / pen are like a Palm Pilot or something.
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No problem. I have three Surface devices and am well aware of their strengths and weaknesses. The pen is a strength in my experience for note taking.
 
Mchart said:
Look; Everyone agrees Flash is a piece of shit.

That doesn't change the FACT that it is heavily used still on a lot of higher education online tools.

So go ahead and buy an iPad Pro to use as a student at College. Hope you still have a normal laptop, because you aren't going to be able to access your course material at many major public universities.
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I never understood this, I know so many people who sit there and bitch about how their schools website doesn't work on their iPad. Nothing wrong with the iPad inherently but if you bought one for education then you aren't very prepared.
 
heatlesssun said:
No problem. I have three Surface devices and am well aware of their strengths and weaknesses. The pen is a strength in my experience for note taking.
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I'm also liking how they went n trig over typical WACOM for their device.
 
aokman said:
I think you understate how much flak Apple have copped for it lol. My god it was so bad when they first announced it even though they made their reasons very clear (same reasons as today). Problem is other companies arent willing to take a PR hit and harden up.

If everyone banded together and said we stop on so and so date, we would see it die much faster.
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Sure. Because there'd never be any conspiracy theories about Microsoft banning a tech from Windows. Because, well, Flash is Win32 tech and if Microsoft banned that the next step is having to obtain all Windows software from Microsoft and Win32 would be dead.

Sometimes Microsoft might actually listen better than some think. Sure, Apple can get away with banning a flawed tech from their walled garden. Microsoft would NEVER get away from banning a Win32 tech as prolific as Flash. At least not 7 years ago. And maybe not ever.
 
Mchart said:
So then buy a device made for drawing.

Just because the iPad Pro may be better for drawing doesn't change the objective fact that it can not do what a standard laptop / surface pro are capable of doing given that an iPad Pro is running iOS and not a desktop OS.
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So if you shouldnt use it for drawing, what else do you use the pen for? Do you write everything instead of typing? Because if you dont need it to navigate the UI then why use it at all.

I wish people would stop treating mobile OS's as inferior to desktop OS's. They both have strengths and weaknesses, one isnt superior to the other at everything which is the point i am trying to make.
 
heatlesssun said:
Sure. Because there'd never be any conspiracy theories about Microsoft banning a tech from Windows. Because, well, Flash is Win32 tech and if Microsoft banned that the next step is having to obtain all Windows software from Microsoft and Win32 would be dead.

Sometimes Microsoft might actually listen better than some think. Sure, Apple can get away with banning a flawed tech from their walled garden. Microsoft would NEVER get away from banning a Win32 tech as prolific as Flash. At least not 7 years ago. And maybe not ever.
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Oh I forgot Apple are the only company that is allowed to have bad PR for the better good because Apple hate is trendy... God forbid people have a reason to hate Microsoft lol.
 
Trimlock said:
I'm also liking how they went n trig over typical WACOM for their device.
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Microsoft bought N-trig. Good idea. Wacom is very good but not perfect. But it does seem like everyone wants to spin up their own pen tech. It's amazing how Microsoft is criticized for not accepting standards, then accepts every standard and then it's too complicated.
 
aokman said:
So if you shouldnt use it for drawing, what else do you use the pen for? Do you write everything instead of typing? Because if you dont need it to navigate the UI then why use it at all.

I wish people would stop treating mobile OS's as inferior to desktop OS's. They both have strengths and weaknesses, one isnt superior to the other at everything which is the point i am trying to make.
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Dude.

There is nothing wrong with iOS. I have an iPhone; I also have an iPad.

It's fine for what it is made for.

This thread is about Apple claiming the iPad Pro is a desktop/laptop replacement. They are claiming you need nothing else. This is an absurd statement. Further anyone who considers themselves a professional could in no way use nothing but an iPad Pro for productivity/work due to the facts I've outlined.

And what does my wife use the pen on her Surface Pro for?

Taking notes, drawing outlines, drawing out presentations, etc..

What happens when she needs to type? She flips over the typecover and whala - She has a keyboard.

And guess what? It's running Windows 10. She can access the shitty Flash content that major universities still use. She has the full gamut of full featured Office products. She can run any standard Windows executable and the oddball science applications for her higher-level coursework.

If Apple had sold the iPad Pro as just a higher-end iPad no one would be laughing at them. Instead they are trying to sell it as an all-in-one solution to replace your workstation. It's fucking laughable.
 
aokman said:
Oh I forgot Apple are the only company that is allowed to have bad PR for the better good because Apple hate is trendy... God forbid people have a reason to hate Microsoft lol.
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Microsoft would never get the pass for banning Flash on the desktop that Apple got for banning it on iOS. That's just how it works for Windows. If Windows isn't infinitely backwards compatible with everything, if Microsoft locks down anything, it's consider evil by certain folks. Because that's Microsoft taking over your PC and making decisions about knowing what's best for PC users.
 
heatlesssun said:
Microsoft would never get the pass for banning Flash on the desktop that Apple got for banning it on iOS. That's just how it works for Windows. If Windows isn't infinitely backwards compatible with everything, if Microsoft locks down anything, it's consider evil by certain folks. Because that's Microsoft taking over your PC and making decisions about knowing what's best for PC users.
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Nor would it make any sense. If Microsoft banned Flash from their latest OS no one would upgrade because people still have work to do. We can't just stop doing work and wait for everyone to convert all their webapps to something else. The real world has shit to get done, and that's why Apple is losing business..
 
Mchart said:
What happens when she needs to type? She flips over the typecover and whala - She has a keyboard.
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While it's a simple idea and nowhere near new, the way Microsoft executed this on the Surface Pro was kind of ingenious. The keyboard cover, free range kickstand and high-res 3:2 screen with a great touchscreen and pen put the Surface line over the top. The idea of the Tablet PC predates Android and iOS, many seem to forget this because previous convertible and 2 in 1 PCs failed. While Microsoft failed in phones, the Tablet PC idea was a pretty damned good idea that's had a niche following for years. One device and UI that can do everything a person needs. It's far from a bad idea, but the tech needed to get there and it finally has.

People commenting in this thread haven't seemed to bother with what Apple is promoting here. Ditch that old PC for a device with touchscreen and pen? That's much of what Apple is promoting in these ads.
 
My Nexus 9 supports Flash, I deliberately disable it. In regards to Surface Pro 4 reliability, I've seen a couple now with dead power supplies at delivery brand new out of the box.

The fact remains that Microsoft have to provide an OS that incorporates both touch and desktop functionality as people associate Windows with desktop operating systems, which really isn't overally ideal from a touch perspective and their touch interface has always been fairly sub par hence the failure of their mobile handsets. Microsoft are trying to promote this mishmash of interfaces as a good thing, allowing for some form of continuity between desktop and touch devices, the realistic issue is that they now have an OS that's a literal mess! Necessary operating system controls are now duplicated between UI's, the addition of the touch interface pisses off desktop users that have a perfectly good, and usually superior physical keyboard and mouse interface, and the addition of desktop OS confuses the Mum and Dad, Grandma and Grandpa and non technically inclined individuals that struggle with a PC in general and thus would by far prefer to spend in excess of $1000.00 on a massive iPad to surf the internet, check email, check their calendar, pay bills, check Facebook and watch YouTube as ironically enough the sheer simplicity of the iPad sells - A great many people just love the fact that the iPad is literally idiot proof and cannot be totally messed up by clicking one wrong icon.

As a techie, if I had to choose between any mobile device I prefer Android by far over anything else on the market. If I had to choose between iOS and Windows on a mobile device, I'd pick Windows for sure - But the average user loves simplicity.
 
heatlesssun said:
While it's a simple idea and nowhere near new, the way Microsoft executed this on the Surface Pro was kind of ingenious. The keyboard cover, free range kickstand and high-res 3:2 screen with a great touchscreen and pen put the Surface line over the top. The idea of the Tablet PC predates Android and iOS, many seem to forget this because previous convertible and 2 in 1 PCs failed. While Microsoft failed in phones, the Tablet PC idea was a pretty damned good idea that's had a niche following for years. One device and UI that can do everything a person needs. It's far from a bad idea, but the tech needed to get there and it finally has.

People commenting in this thread haven't seemed to bother with what Apple is promoting here. Ditch that old PC for a device with touchscreen and pen? That's much of what Apple is promoting in these ads.
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And for 90% of people, thats is all they need as a mobile device when away from workstations. People seriously overestimate how much shit they need to carry around these days. Hell i can get most of my work done on an iPhone if i really had to.

Is it a workstation replacement? No.
Is a surfacebook a workstation replacement? No.

They are mobile devices but the iPad can replace a computer when out and about.
 
aokman said:
And for 90% of people, thats is all they need as a mobile device when away from workstations. People seriously overestimate how much shit they need to carry around these days. Hell i can get most of my work done on an iPhone if i really had to.

Is it a workstation replacement? No.
Is a surfacebook a workstation replacement? No.

They are mobile devices but the iPad can replace a computer when out and about.
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If I have to haul around something the size of an iPad i'd rather have a smaller form factor laptop / Surface.

The iPad is a consumption device; Not a get shit done device.

Also I really take issue with you saying 'No' to workstation replacement. A Surface Pro 4 w/ workstation dock .. Is a workstation. Do work at your office, and take it on the road to and do work as well.

You can't do that with an iPad; Further, no one is saying a Surface is an iPad, iPhone, or Android phone.

Again; The point here is that Apple is selling the iPad Pro as a device which can replace everything you own. This is silly, and if it were true they wouldn't still be selling Mac's.

I also further point to the education environment where idiot 18 year olds bring their iPad's to a lecture, lab, or presentation and can't complete even trivial tasks with it as iOS only does so much.
 
I know people that only have iPads and they cover all their computing needs perfectly.

You can install productivity software on an iPad so I have no idea where you get the idea that they're purely a consumption device.
 
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BulletDust said:
I know people that only have iPads and they cover all their computing needs perfectly.

You can install productivity software on an iPad so I have no idea where you get the idea that they're purely a consumption device.
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You assume everything has 'an app for that' or a person doesn't need to do much of .. anything.

Have fun running spreadsheets, building powerpoint presentations, or even accomplishing more basic tasks such as writing a bullet background paper on iOS.

Square peg meet round hole.

Sure - My 91 year old grandmother's only computing device is an iPad. Works great. She reads some emails, does some basic text input, and browses the web. She doesn't use it for /work/.

Humor everyone and buy your kid going off to college nothing but an iPad. Let us know how it works out. Either way you/them have wasted money and now they need a device which can run a full blown OS regardless. They have shit to do. They can't waste hours fucking around with a sub-optimal Office solution to write their paper, and god forbid they need to access their online portion of the course work which in higher education is almost all Java (As in, full blown Java, not javascript) and Flash.

It really makes you wonder WTF Apple is thinking. They are quickly making themselves irrelevant in the education market; A market they dominated back when I was going to school.
 
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