Thinking About Windows 10 Alternatives

BulletDust said:
You're entitled to your opinion.
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Again, this isn't about opinion. I asked a question. What can I expect of this sig rig running under Linux? That has not one Microsoft branded component involved besides and Xbox One controller I'd throw in the trash if Linux were as capable on a desktop machine as you say. What can I expect? I asked this question on this forum when building this rig. Got some great answers.
 
BulletDust said:
Not interested mate. I've stated my opinion and it still stands.
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Again, no one here is challenging your opinion. We're asking for answers that I've pointed out, are readily answered by forum members. Like the NVMe vs SATA III Raid thing you mentioned. NVMe all the way in this forum. And others. You get all mad when I mention what I spent on this rig, you think I didn't research it well? LOL!
 
heatlesssun said:
Again, this isn't about opinion. I asked a question. What can I expect of this sig rig running under Linux? That has not one Microsoft branded component involved besides and Xbox One controller I'd throw in the trash if Linux were as capable on a desktop machine as you say. What can I expect? I asked this question on this forum when building this rig. Got some great answers.
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Well it's obvious that you believe an expensive PC is only good for gaming, so I guess Windows is the OS best suited to yourself.

Sadly, it's doubtful your usage scenario in any way reflects the masses, even on [H]OCP. Stuffed if I can imagine what they used all that computing power for back in the 70's and 80's with the DEC PDP range of minicomputers, they didn't even have a GPU, all they had was an RS-232 port and a terminal capable of decoding ASCII.
 
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heatlesssun said:
Again, this isn't about opinion. I asked a question. What can I expect of this sig rig running under Linux? That has not one Microsoft branded component involved besides and Xbox One controller I'd throw in the trash if Linux were as capable on a desktop machine as you say. What can I expect? I asked this question on this forum when building this rig. Got some great answers.
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Well VR aside. If you where not a gamer... but a digital artist. Your system would rip in blender, it would rock Maya if you where looking for a low cost 3d workstation.

If you where a Developer... the VR hardware you have does work with Linux your system would be a good development workstation, you could code us that VR software. kidden

I think the point is... not everyone is playing games. Assuming the only people using high end GPUs CPUs and good boards with lots of ram are gamers is simply wrong. Every piece of hardware you own would work in Linux.

For the 30th post if your console ported "AAA" games are that important then yes you should be running Windows 10. For others who are more likely to be burning their time in programs like Blender and Krita ect ect there is no less a need for high end hardware and yes it works in Linux very well.
 
ChadD said:
Well VR aside. If you where not a gamer... but a digital artist. Your system would rip in blender, it would rock Maya if you where looking for a low cost 3d workstation.

If you where a Developer... the VR hardware you have does work with Linux your system would be a good development workstation, you could code us that VR software. kidden

I think the point is... not everyone is playing games. Assuming the only people using high end GPUs CPUs and good boards with lots of ram are gamers is simply wrong. Every piece of hardware you own would work in Linux.

For the 30th post if your console ported "AAA" games are that important then yes you should be running Windows 10. For others who are more likely to be burning their time in programs like Blender and Krita ect ect there is no less a need for high end hardware and yes it works in Linux very well.
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I don't think he knows Cuda exists?
 
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ChadD said:
Sure and when Nintendo adds it at some point... as they have hinted. The industry will target the switch and android day dream 3 to 1... seeing as I just read a Hard article about how Samsung + Google are currently outselling either of the PC VR options by at least that margin.
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LOL! Well duh. PCVR right now, thousands in hardware, drill holes in the wall for the tracking sensors and have at least 7' x 7' space for room scale.
 
heatlesssun said:
LOL! Well duh. PCVR right now, thousands in hardware, drill holes in the wall for the tracking sensors and have at least 7' x 7' space for room scale.
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So I think you understand then... most of the games your likely to get are going to be daydream ports. ;)
 
BulletDust said:
Well it's obvious that you believe an expensive PC is only good for gaming, so I guess Windows is the OS best suited to yourself.
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LOL! Be serious for a moment, you can't honestly believe that I built the rig in may sig just for gaming? That said, games will push it beyond its limits like nothing. The weirdest thing, a simple VR free throw shooting game seems to spin up the GPUs like little else. Love that thing for some reason.

BulletDust said:
Sadly, it's doubtful you're usage scenario in any way reflects the masses, even on [H]OCP. Stuffed if I can imagine what they used all that computing power for back in the 70's and 80's with the DEC PDP range of minicomputers, they didn't even have a GPU, all they had was an RS-232 port and a terminal capable of decoding ASCII.
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LOL! When it comes to x86 devices, sure, not anywhere near the masses. For this forum I think I'm at best average overall. You really should look at the sigs people here have. Dual Titan XPs abound.
 
BulletDust said:
Or you could just go outside.
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And shoot aliens and zombies? You're far from the first I've seen this kind of answer, well before I even had a VR setup. Seriously, I think VR is game changing. If Linux were to supplant Windows on the desktop, this is one of those moments. But, yeah, no big deal.

Time and time and time again, desktop Linux has an opportunity to change the landscape and you guys do give a shit.
 
heatlesssun said:
And shoot aliens and zombies? You're far from the first I've seen this kind of answer, well before I even had a VR setup. Seriously, I think VR is game changing. If Linux were to supplant Windows on the desktop, this is one of those moments. But, yeah, no big deal.

Time and time and time again, desktop Linux has an opportunity to change the landscape and you guys do give a shit.
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In my opinion Desktop Linux is awesome. Yes, I give a shit about Linux. I don't, however, give the slightest shit about your opinion.
 
heatlesssun said:
LOL! Be serious for a moment, you can't honestly believe that I built the rig in may sig just for gaming? That said, games will push it beyond its limits like nothing. The weirdest thing, a simple VR free throw shooting game seems to spin up the GPUs like little else. Love that thing for some reason.



LOL! When it comes to x86 devices, sure, not anywhere near the masses. For this forum I think I'm at best average overall. You really should look at the sigs people here have. Dual Titan XPs abound.
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Good for you!
 
BulletDust said:
In my opinion Desktop Linux is awesome. Yes, I give a shit about Linux. I don't, however, give the slightest shit about your opinion.
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I dunno after 16 pages of you two going at it, it seems to have mattered at some point haha! Just sayin'

Has been entertaining to follow
 
Darunion said:
I dunno after 16 pages of you two going at it, it seems to have mattered at some point haha! Just sayin'

Has been entertaining to follow
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Well, after all, Heatlesssun is the centre of the universe.
 
ChadD said:
If you where a Developer... the VR hardware you have does work with Linux your system would be a good development workstation, you could code us that VR software. kidden
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LOL! I am a developer. Not in the realm of games or VR, I'm mostly a database guy these days. Given what's been said about VR from Linux folks around here though, I would waste my time on anything exclusive to Linux. If you look at Steam and it's Linux VR offerings compared to Windows, you'd understand.

ChadD said:
I think the point is... not everyone is playing games. Assuming the only people using high end GPUs CPUs and good boards with lots of ram are gamers is simply wrong. Every piece of hardware you own would work in Linux.
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We all get that not everyone is playing games on PCs. But it looks like gaming on PCs has a bright of a future as there is on PCs. You've been preaching about how PCs are dying. And I don't disagree except that they are not dying where the power of a PC trumps all.

ChadD said:
For the 30th post if your console ported "AAA" games are that important then yes you should be running Windows 10. For others who are more likely to be burning their time in programs like Blender and Krita ect ect there is no less a need for high end hardware and yes it works in Linux very well.
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And what have you mentioned here that works better under Linux? Really, do you think that all Indie games come to Linux? Pretty much all of the VR titles coming to Windows currently are indie.
 
BulletDust said:
Well, after all, Heatlesssun is the centre of the universe.
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Never forget, all in good fun. Really from an applications and support standpoint, what would be the freeking big deal about Linux vs. Windows? Click or tap this button vs. that? I mean really, that's ultimately all the hell this about, so long as Linux has support for those applications. It's not a big deal, Linux folks have said for many, many years it's not a big deal. And I completely agree. What is a big deal is having spent a lot money of stuff, not Microsoft branded for the overwhelming majority and then being told something like "VR is about people waving their hands in the air."

Nope. Not going to throw out everything for an OS that's all about some political agenda while I'm spending tons of money on things I like and Linux folks don't even understand at a basic level. Free, open, secure, I get that and respect that. I don't think desktop Linux get choice as well as they think they do however.
 
heatlesssun said:
Never forget, all in good fun. Really from an applications and support standpoint, what would be the freeking big deal about Linux vs. Windows? Click or tap this button vs. that? I mean really, that's ultimately all the hell this about, so long as Linux has support for those applications. It's not a big deal, Linux folks have said for many, many years it's not a big deal. And I completely agree. What is a big deal is having spent a lot money of stuff, not Microsoft branded for the overwhelming majority and then being told something like "VR is about people waving their hands in the air."

Nope. Not going to throw out everything for an OS that's all about some political agenda while I'm spending tons of money on things I like and Linux folks don't even understand at a basic level. Free, open, secure, I get that and respect that. I don't think desktop Linux get choice as well as they think they do however.
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Why do you always claim that I'm specifically talking about you? I'm talking in general, I don't really care about your needs.
 
BulletDust said:
I'm talking in general, I don't really care about your needs.
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You have no reason to care about my needs, that's never crossed my mind because you don't even seem to get my needs. And that goes both ways, I'm sure I don't get yours. When it comes to gaming, in place like this though, you don't have a clue IMO. Have you even gone through a GPU benchmarking thread around here? It makes the argument we're having look like the Lord's Payer.
 
heatlesssun said:
You have no reason to care about my needs, that's never crossed my mind because you don't even seem to get my needs. And that goes both ways, I'm sure I don't get yours. When it comes to gaming, in place like this though, you don't have a clue IMO. Have you even gone through a GPU benchmarking thread around here? It makes the argument we're having look like the Lord's Payer.
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Here we go, degrading into a personal attack through frustration. I've stated it before, and I'll state it again as you appear to have forgotten.

...You do not know me at all, do not pretend that you know anything about me whatsoever.

I understand every single little bullshit point you've raised, thing is....I don't care for your opinion - I just don't care, you aren't important enough for me to give a shit.
 
BulletDust said:
Here we go, degrading into a personal attack through frustration. I've stated it before, and I'll state it again as you appear to have forgotten.

...You do not know me at all, do not pretend that you know anything about me whatsoever.

I understand every single little bullshit point you've raised, thing is....I don't care for your opinion - I just don't care, you aren't important enough for me to give a shit.
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In a thread about Windows 10 alternatives you keep talking about how great Linux gaming is. But you constantly talk about how AAA titles suck, VR sucks, etc. The only thing that's good about PC gaming is when it's Linux compatible. Which of course excludes AAA games and VR.
 
heatlesssun said:
In a thread about Windows 10 alternatives you keep talking about how great Linux gaming is. But you constantly talk about how AAA titles suck, VR sucks, etc. The only thing that's good about PC gaming is when it's Linux compatible. Which of course excludes AAA games and VR.
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You know, there are AAA titles under Linux.
 
BulletDust said:
You know, there are AAA titles under Linux.
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Not many at release. There was XCOM 2, Deus Ex: MD last year months after. Linux folks right now are pushing the HELL out of Doom 2016 running well on Wine even more than those two native Linux titles as examples of AAA Linux gaming.

What I don't get about this debate with Linux folks. Even a Windows loving zealot like me can easily admit that typical; PC users on Windows would probably be fine on Linux. But then Linux folks seem to go nuts over than, going on and on about how "superior" Linux is to Windows, then a Windows user will say something like "OneNote" and then the Linux guy will day "Never heard of it, don't know anyone that uses it, pointless."

So you understand all there is to know about PCs, understand all needs and wants, you understand it all. Then complain about me thinking I know who you are? And you never heard of OneNote before I mentioned it to you? LOL!
 
heatlesssun said:
Not many at release. There was XCOM 2, Deus Ex: MD last year months after. Linux folks right now are pushing the HELL out of Doom 2016 running well on Wine even more than those two native Linux titles as examples of AAA Linux gaming.

What I don't get about this debate with Linux folks. Even a Windows loving zealot like me can easily admit that typical; PC users on Windows would probably be fine on Linux. But then Linux folks seem to go nuts over than, going on and on about how "superior" Linux is to Windows, then a Windows user will say something like "OneNote" and then the Linux guy will day "Never heard of it, don't know anyone that uses it, pointless."

So you understand all there is to know about PCs, understand all needs and wants, you understand it all. Then complain about me thinking I know who you are? And you never heard of OneNote before I mentioned it to you? LOL!
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A Linux user wouldn't have heard of MS made software ? Sounds crazy. Whats next are you going to tell me Mac Users don't know every useless MS program either. ;)

Oh an Linux is not just a political thing. It is the most expensive OS ever created... and open source means COMPANIES are free to use the code even if they never contributed a dime to its development. Every company that uses it makes it better by contributing their bit if required to the Kernel team. Long term Windows won't be able to compete with the pace of its development. Unless they open source their kernel instead of useless things like .net and dx and somehow convince a ton of competitors to develop the windows kernel for them. :) I still stand by what I said 10+ pages ago... at some point MS is likely to adopt the Linux Kernel. There isn't anything stopping them ... its free to use. They are free to develop their own Windows DE close it as tight as they would like as google has done. At some point MS is going to be forced to make major changes to windows such as finally dumping NTFS, I would imagine that would be the perfect time to switch as everyone will be clean installing anyway. (especially if they can push a good number of users to things like Windows Cloud... by forcing UWP software usage they make backwards compatability a non issue, as they could easy have the required code added to the kernel) I know I sound crazy again... but think about it. It means MS can take any money they spend on kernel development right now and hack and slash staff.
 
I never stated I've never heard of One Note, I stated that I don't know a single sole that uses it - And I deal with a lot of people. I still stand by that claim, as to state otherwise would be an outright lie. Doesn't matter anyway as if you really need it it's available in Office online.

I'm also fairly certain I never outright claimed that Linux was superior to Windows. Windows 10 is an outright mess compared to W7 and I believe Linux does have some security advantages, I believe to claim that all of Windows infection issues are related solely to it's popularity is slightly generalised - But I have nothing against Windows with the exception of the obvious updater issues, fragmented UI issues, touch issues on desktop machines, that odd thing with the microphone and privacy issues. As stated, I have three Windows machines here, two of those are running Windows 10, so I can't think it's that bad.

But I by far prefer Linux and the statistics highlight that it's popularity is growing, that pleases me.

AAA titles piss me off as they're overpriced, full of bullshit DLC and usually half finished on release. Nvidia tries to cover up the issues with a driver update, at times that breaks something else (Call Of Duty - Advanced Warfare anyone?). I have a right as a consumer to be pissed at that, as a result I don't care for such titles anymore.
 
ChadD said:
at some point MS is likely to adopt the Linux Kernel. There isn't anything stopping them ... its free to use.
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There actually is something stopping them. GNU licencing specifies that they have to make their code available to the public, hence the reason Apple went to BSD.
 
BulletDust said:
There actually is something stopping them. GNU licencing specifies that they have to make their code available to the public, hence the reason Apple went to BSD.
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They don't have to open source the DE and other software that runs on the kernel. If you change the kernel you have to give back the code... but why wouldn't they, its not like they run on propritary hardware or something. The windows kernel is well known its how Wine works... they have no secrets at the kernel level.
Having said that... would it matter if they did open source it ? They could still make the same $ selling all the web services they like to manufacturers as google does. They can still sell all their cloud and server goodies as Red Hat does. What would it matter if people tried to fork it... if they stop using W32, and lock down their UWP software to their store, what would be the harm. They are going to do all those things anyway so why continue paying to develop a kernel.

Apple went BSD cause its apple and they want to build their own strange hardware and not share. No seriously not really.... at the time frankly the BSD kernel was likely a better starting point, Linux wasn't nearly as well tended in 1997. When apple started work on OSX Linux was what 5 or 6 years old and the first few years it wasn't much of much it was just an odd BSD fork.

More recently Sony did go with BSD on the PS4 for the reasons your talking about. They didn't want to share their low level API code... and in that case I can't blame them, MS would have taken it added 2 lines and called it DX 12.1 :)
 
ChadD said:
They don't have to open source the DE and other software that runs on the kernel. If you change the kernel you have to give back the code... but why wouldn't they, its not like they run on propritary hardware or something. The windows kernel is well known its how Wine works... they have no secrets at the kernel level.
Having said that... would it matter if they did open source it ? They could still make the same $ selling all the web services they like to manufacturers as google does. They can still sell all their cloud and server goodies as Red Hat does. What would it matter if people tried to fork it... if they stop using W32, and lock down their UWP software to their store, what would be the harm. They are going to do all those things anyway so why continue paying to develop a kernel.

Apple went BSD cause its apple and they want to build their own strange hardware and not share. No seriously not really.... at the time frankly the BSD kernel was likely a better starting point, Linux wasn't nearly as well tended in 1997. When apple started work on OSX Linux was what 5 or 6 years old and the first few years it wasn't much of much it was just an odd BSD fork.

More recently Sony did go with BSD on the PS4 for the reasons your talking about. They didn't want to share their low level API code... and in that case I can't blame them, MS would have taken it added 2 lines and called it DX 12.1 :)
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Don't quote me on it, but I don't think that's the case with the GNU licence and the only reason why I state that is because of Apple. I'm fairly confident that Apple based OSX on BSD as the licencing terms in the BSD licence don't state that you have to open source the code, I also think it's part of the reason that Android AOSP exists as that's based on the Linux kernel. I'll have to do more research on the topic to be sure though.
 
ChadD said:
They don't have to open source the DE and other software that runs on the kernel. If you change the kernel you have to give back the code... but why wouldn't they, its not like they run on propritary hardware or something. The windows kernel is well known its how Wine works... they have no secrets at the kernel level.
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I think you'll find they protect the NT kernel quite well, the Wine project is a reverse engineered abstraction layer done in a way as to avoid copyright issues.
 
BulletDust said:
Don't quote me on it, but I don't think that's the case with the GNU licence and the only reason why I state that is because of Apple. I'm fairly confident that Apple based OSX on BSD as the licencing terms in the BSD licence don't state that you have to open source the code, I also think it's part of the reason that Android AOSP exists as that's based on the Linux kernel. I'll have to do more research on the topic to be sure though.
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AOSP is multi licence.
https://source.android.com/source/licenses.html
Quoted from there;
"For example, the Linux kernel patches are under the GPLv2 license with system exceptions, which can be found on kernel.org."
"We are sometimes asked why Apache Software License 2.0 is the preferred license for Android. For userspace (that is, non-kernel) software, we do in fact prefer ASL2.0 (and similar licenses like BSD, MIT, etc.) over other licenses such as LGPL.

Android is about freedom and choice. The purpose of Android is promote openness in the mobile world, and we don't believe it's possible to predict or dictate all the uses to which people will want to put our software. So, while we encourage everyone to make devices that are open and modifiable, we don't believe it is our place to force them to do so. Using LGPL libraries would often force them to do just that."

So although AOSP releases all the code companies are free to take android and close everything ACCEPT the kernel. Which is exactly what say Amazon does with the Fire OS.

Apple chose BSD because even though they released the first beta in 1997 while Linux was 6 years old... it was based on the NextOS which also used BSD. The NextStep (jobs Next computer company OS) launched in 1989 and was based on the Mach Kernel created at Carnegie Mellon University with some parts pulled from BSD. OSX was a direct continuation of the NextStep os, really they bought Next brought in Jobs and a few months later boom MacNext Errr I mean OSX. So the core of OSX predates Linux... therefore they couldn't have used it. :)
 
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BulletDust said:
I think you'll find they protect the NT kernel quite well, the Wine project is a reverse engineered abstraction layer done in a way as to avoid copyright issues.
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I know it is. They haven't seen the code... and yet they can guess at exactly how it works is my point. There isn't anything in the code that is a secret from anyone. The issues with software in wine aren't with how to handle basic W32 calls.

I really don't see the downside to MS doing the same thing Google does with Android. Use the Linux Kernel with the GPL... send anything you add to the Linux foundation. After that its up to them... Google has all out and made the rest of the code free to use as well, its just under the Apache licence which means companies like Amazon and Mozilla can take the code and mod it close it and sell it.

Granted perhaps MS doesn't have the confidence in their cloud offerings to be enough to keep them in the $. lol If they tried to take google on they would most likely get a clock cleaning. Having said that they aren't required to give away anything. They could keep everything else a closed licence.

Of course its M$ and they still want to be able to enforce old patents on things like file systems on usb sticks ect... so who knows. lol
 
As far as I'm aware there's two versions of UNIX, one is modified by Berkeley Software Distribution and the raw version as developed by AT&T. Due to the fact that AT&T own UNIX the licencing of BSD is considerably different to Linux. I'm also fairly certain that no changes happen to the Linux Kernel without the approval of Linus Torvalds himself, people and large corporations can contribute, but Linus has the final say on what makes it's way into the Kernel.

I took a look at Wikipedia and found this snippet of information:

Licensing terms[edit]
Initially, Torvalds released Linux under a license which forbade any commercial use.[35] This was changed in version 0.12 to the GNU General Public License (GPL).[19] This license allows distribution and sale of possibly modified and unmodified versions of Linux but requires that all those copies be released under the same license and be accompanied by the complete corresponding source code.

Torvalds has described licensing Linux under the GPL as the "best thing I ever did."
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The fact that UNIX runs two slightly different versions was one of the ways a hacker stealing US secrets to sell to the Russians was caught in the 80's, they knew roughly where he was from due to his code using standard UNIX as opposed to BSD UNIX.
 
BulletDust said:
As far as I'm aware there's two versions of UNIX, one is modified by Berkeley Software Distribution and the raw version as developed by AT&T. Due to the fact that AT&T own UNIX the licencing of BSD is considerably different to Linux. I'm also fairly certain that no changes happen to the Linux Kernel without the approval of Linus Torvalds himself, people and large corporations can contribute, but Linus has the final say on what makes it's way into the Kernel.

I took a look at Wikipedia and found this snippet of information:
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Your not wrong... and its not an issue.
https://kernel.org/category/about.html
https://www.linuxfoundation.org
The Linux Foundation is the entity that controls the kernel yes they still employee Linus.

If you scroll to their about pages you will find this;
"The membership of The Linux Foundation includes companies that are leaders in the delivery and strategic use of open source technologies. With hundreds of members, including Amazon, Cisco, eBay, Facebook, Google, HP, IBM, Intel, Microsoft, NEC, Oracle, and Red Hat, as well as the startups and mid-market enterprises, we are driving innovation worldwide. "

Notice a key company listed there. They became platinum members in November 2016 giving them a seat on the board of the Linux foundation. lol yes hell may freeze over... or I'm not as crazy as I sound if you look into everything MS has been doing open sourcing things like DX .Net and not just joining the Linux foundation, but buying themselves a seat at the table.
 
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In the early days Microsoft had Xenix, which was a Microsoft operating system based on UNIX. As far as I can tell it was quite popular.

It is a shame MS DOS won out on the PC platform as UNIX was a vastly superior OS.
 
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ChadD said:
Your not wrong... and its not an issue.
https://kernel.org/category/about.html
https://www.linuxfoundation.org
The Linux Foundation is the entity that controls the kernel yes they still employee Linus.

If you scroll to their about pages you will find this;
"The membership of The Linux Foundation includes companies that are leaders in the delivery and strategic use of open source technologies. With hundreds of members, including Amazon, Cisco, eBay, Facebook, Google, HP, IBM, Intel, Microsoft, NEC, Oracle, and Red Hat, as well as the startups and mid-market enterprises, we are driving innovation worldwide. "

Notice a key company listed there. They became platinum members in November 2016 giving them a seat on the board of the Linux foundation. lol yes hell may freeze over... or I'm not as crazy as I sound if you look into everything MS has been doing open sourcing things like DX .Net and not just joining the Linux foundation, but buying themselves a seat at the table.
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I believe MS is up to something, I'm just not too sure what. Adding bash to Windows, open sourcing various items of proprietary software. Things are changing and I believe Microsoft are feeling the heat.
 
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BulletDust said:
I believe MS is up to something, I'm just not too sure what. Adding bash to Windows, open sourcing various items of proprietary software. Things are changing and I believe Microsoft are feeling the heat.
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Well this is where we all do the embrace extend extinguish chant. :)
I joke Linux is to big for that and even if those people where still in charge at MS I think even they would know it.

It could just be them trying to keep Windows server relevant and trying to find a way to properly run android apps... or worm their way into the google ecosystem. I don't know... my guess is they simply realize they are going to have to take to the kernel if they want real robust support form hardware manufacturers in the mobile sector ect.

The next few years will be interesting. Last year saw them open source a ton of stuff that no one would have expected... and they have been updating development code and folding in community built code patches. They are acting like an actual honest to goodness open source company. At this point I wouldn't be shocked to see them open source almost all of windows at some point in the next few years and keep their store code locked down just like Google does. It almost makes to much sense... put companies like Samsung to work on hardware running a mobile version of Windows that looks a lot like Android under the hood. If they where up to anything sneaky I would say that would be it. Trying to out do Android by pretty much copying it and replacing all the Java bits with .net bits.
 
I don't know whether the extend, embrace, extinguish method MS used in the past will work this time. MS usually outspends it's opponents before crushing them, you can't outspend an opponent that's free let alone financed by some of the biggest players in the I.T industry.
 
BulletDust said:
I don't know whether the extend, embrace, extinguish method MS used in the past will work this time. MS usually outspends it's opponents before crushing them, you can't outspend an opponent that's free let alone financed by some of the biggest players in the I.T industry.
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No It wouldn't work against the kernel.. its just what we are supposed to say. ;)

No if its "nefarious" intentions my guess would be they are planning a one up on Android. We know they have already been playing with everything from conversion tools to right out running android apps.
There is nothing stopping them from doing what I have been saying for the desktop only for mobile. Use the Linux Kernel... built the Desktop with .net... make it either compatible with Android apps or offer an easy way for developers to convert them. Then release the entire thing with the same licencing Google uses. GPL for Kernel Apache or something like it for the rest.... then all the android hardware companies make MS phones for nothing perhaps MS even give them free access to the Official MS cloud OS webstore. (you can charge them later if you can push Android over).

I mean how else does MS get back into the mobile sector really ?
 
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