Microsoft Kills The Ability To Uninstall Stock Apps From Windows 10

I am the same way. When I hear people talk about the start screen or start menu I have to ask them what the hell they are doing searching for their programs. Like you said, window key, start to type the name and enter. and the program is launched. for anything that I need every day I have pined to the task bar. I might see the start menu for about 15 seconds combined for an entire day. If people are searching through their start menu still for programs I consider that using the pc incorrectly. But that could just be me.

Personally, searching for stuff is a nuisance -- it means I have to move my hands to/from the mouse to the keyboard, and I generally use the mouse for 99% of operations unless I am actually typing something. I also typically have everything I use segregated out by functionality of the program, so I can drill down to it much faster than I can type in the name of it. This is especially true for stuff I don't use all that often -- where I may remember what it DOES but have no clue as to the name of the program (which makes search useless). Stuff I use every day I keep in Quick Launch (yes, QL, I don't pin stuff to the taskbar -- when I click on something, it is because I want another instance of it to launch, I don't want the icon to behave differently because it is already running). I find the Windows 10 Start Menu and Start Screen totally obnoxious and annoying -- which is why I keep Classic Shell installed.
 
So does windows 7 and 8.1 with classic shell for a lot of people. MS just seems to pissing more and more people off. I think it's their new business plan.

Windows 8.1 + StartIsBack or ClassicShell + WSUSOfflineUpdate = updated kernel with the most amount of what's good about 7 with the least amount of what's bad about 10. MS has to support it for 6 more years, while WSUSOffline means never having to worry about windows update sneaking anything in.

DX12? Developers aren't touching it since it's more work than DX11 and would limit their sales to only one version of Windows.
 
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Oh, it works for you? Then it must work for every person on the planet. Thanks!

As I clearly stated that is me personally. As pointed out by heatlessun, by your logic since you don't like something none of us should like it or be able to use it.

"I" personally don't get what people babysit because of the way that "I" decide to use my computer.
 
I find the Windows 10 Start Menu and Start Screen totally obnoxious and annoying -- which is why I keep Classic Shell installed.

The thing I probably like most about the Creators Update coming this spring that's in the insider builds are tile folders. Not something that will probably make many Windows 10 opponents happy but ability to create even just one level on folders on a 2D launch app surface allows for a LOT of stuff to be arranged in a compact space, and in arbitrary order of priority. Something that was on Windows Phone 8.1 years ago that really made a lot more sense on a desktop but took years to get to the desktop. I think this tile setup is just a better way forward than the old Start Menu but it's taking them too long to make improvements. The tile folders should have been there when that were on the phone.
 
Personally my only issue with Windows 10 is the change to VPN. I don't like how I now go from the icon by the clock to a selection my VPN which then takes me to the settings app where I can then connect. Outside of that I don't have to fight Windows 10 to do work or play games or anything.

You do realize you can use WinAero Tweaker to change Windows 10's systray network icon behavior to go back to the Windows 8.1 style pop-up on the right side? This works MUCH better for connecting/disconnecting VPN connections. If I had to use the new Windows 10 method all the time I'd pull my hair out -- as I probably have a good 20+ VPN connections listed and am often logging into and out of remote systems I manage several times per hour.

And, from a business standpoint, Windows 10 has taken MUCH more baby-sitting than any other version of Windows we have ever had to deal with -- because they keep breaking/changing GP behaviors, they keep changing the start menu, they keep changing the settings options, etc. Windows 10 is a constantly moving target and, even when we are on the Deferred path, things still get updated way too often (and drastically). Since we have loaded Classic Shell onto every machine we deploy and setup GPO logon scripts to forcibly and continuously uninstall almost all universal apps (especially including the Store app), things have been much better and easier to live with and we have had lots less complaints from users about things changing all the time.
 
DX12? Developers aren't touching it since it's more work than DX11 and limits their sales to only one version of Windows.

Right, because a year and half into Windows 7 all games were on DX 11. Oh, wait, nope. Indeed Windows XP still had more market share than XP overall, though 7 IIRC was doing much better with gamers and had over taking XP at that time though XP still had a large gaming presence. At any rate, you're just ignoring the history of how this has always worked, DX version adoption takes years since it takes years to develop top games now.
 
Windows 8.1 + StartIsBack or ClassicShell + WSUSOfflineUpdate = updated kernel with the most amount of what's good about 7 with the least amount of what's bad about 10. MS has to support it for 6 more years, while WSUSOffline means never having to worry about windows update sneaking anything in.

DX12? Developers aren't touching it since it's more work than DX11 and would limit their sales to only one version of Windows.

I second this 100%. Windows 8.1 is almost all of the good of Windows 10 without all the headaches.
 
And, from a business standpoint, Windows 10 has taken MUCH more baby-sitting than any other version of Windows we have ever had to deal with --

Not if you're on the Enterprise version which 18 months later is now going out of support for the original 1507 version. It's a much different game for enterprise users.
 
I second this 100%. Windows 8.1 is almost all of the good of Windows 10 without all the headaches.

I guess I don't get the point about 8.1. It's done, Windows 8.x wasn't popular, it's got no path forward, it's market share has collapsed in both general use and especially gaming.
 
I removed all of MS's shit then locked them out of my gaming boot partition. I use Mint most of the time, only use windows for games and VMware vSphere.

MS can go eat a dick if they think I'm going to let them push changes to my PC. The first two policies solve the issue, though I have the third one turned on because why not?


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As I clearly stated that is me personally. As pointed out by heatlessun, by your logic since you don't like something none of us should like it or be able to use it.

"I" personally don't get what people babysit because of the way that "I" decide to use my computer.

Again, what are the alternatives that don't all have major problems be it Windows 7, Windows 8.1, macOS, a Linux distro or Chromebooks. Windows 10 is the only path for all of the latest and greatest gaming. Windows 7 and 8.1 will support most all of that but not everything. And that support isn't going to get better, it's going to get worse.
 
So does windows 7 and 8.1 with classic shell for a lot of people.
MS just seems to pissing more and more people off. I think it's their new business plan.

Yep. We are in the process of deploying a hefty new build and testing machine for the software development staff at one location I work for -- and the developers specifically requested it have Windows 7 on it.
They plan to do our software testing on it, but intend to run Windows 10 in a VM and keep Windows 7 as the host OS, just so that the underlying platform remains stable and doesn't get forced upgrades.

One of the primary complaints with Windows 10 I have heard from a lot of developers has been that every time they things setup and working with their development tools, Microsoft comes along with a "major upgrade" (aka "major pain in the arse"), like TH2 and AU, and totally fubars things.
Essentially, many tools which have to be hand installed don't get transferred over to the new install of the OS (which is in effect what the "upgrades" actually are), and each revision has continued to break other tools and/or required version updates (some of which have required spending money to update -- which is NEVER popular).

I'm deploying Windows 10 in lots of places (with Classic Shell and some serious scripts that remove annoyances), but the general feedback I hear is that almost everyone wishes Microsoft would simply quit changing things and go back to a 3-4 year release cycle on major updates that actually alter the UI and how things work.
 
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So you never accepted a Windows Update ever? Microsoft has been pushing updates to PCs for two decades now?

I stopped updates with windows 10.

I don't accept the permission for MS to irreversibly change shit on my PC at their whim, such as removing policies from user access, or like in this case mandating that you are unable to install software you don't want.
 
I guess I don't get the point about 8.1. It's done, Windows 8.x wasn't popular, it's got no path forward, it's market share has collapsed in both general use and especially gaming.

I know a lot of businesses still deploying it heavily -- and I deal with very few users who ever run any games on their PC's. At one of my larger supported businesses, they are purchasing every new machine with Windows 10 Pro and then exercising downgrade rights to Windows 8.1 Pro on every single one of them.
 
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Again, what are the alternatives that don't all have major problems be it Windows 7, Windows 8.1, macOS, a Linux distro or Chromebooks. Windows 10 is the only path for all of the latest and greatest gaming. Windows 7 and 8.1 will support most all of that but not everything. And that support isn't going to get better, it's going to get worse.
I play the latest and greatest on 7 and 8.1 just fine as well.
 
Not if you're on the Enterprise version which 18 months later is now going out of support for the original 1507 version. It's a much different game for enterprise users.

That may be true, but I don't deal with or support any businesses that are using the Enterprise version -- even the largest (around 100 users) are strictly running Pro and strictly purchase retail copies of Office, et al, because they have no intention of ever paying any recurring licensing fees for SA, etc.

Additionally, 18 months is not sufficient. We would like to see major releases supported with security updates, but without forced upgrades, for far longer than that (i.e. Windows 7 RTM without SP1 was supported from July 2009 until April 2013, and Windows 7 SP1 will effectively be supported from 2011-2020).

Microsoft really needs to slow down the major version updates and also allow businesses to standardize on a a specific version, without accepting ANY other updates except for security updates -- i.e. they should continue releasing security updates for 1507 for at least 4-5 years.

I'm sorry, but a desktop computer in an office is NOT a cell phone and doesn't need to be getting UI upgrades that often -- and, for the most part, we not only do not care about the new features they are rolling out, but actively block about 90% of them from being run on the computers.
 
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Again, what are the alternatives that don't all have major problems be it Windows 7, Windows 8.1, macOS, a Linux distro or Chromebooks. Windows 10 is the only path for all of the latest and greatest gaming. Windows 7 and 8.1 will support most all of that but not everything. And that support isn't going to get better, it's going to get worse.

You mean to tell me that the first two aren't perfect compared to the third? ;)

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You mean to tell me that the first two aren't perfect compared to the third? ;)

Excellent example. That said, I despise Unity almost as much as the old Windows 8.1 tiles Start Screen. I'll take KDE any day of the week.
 
I play the latest and greatest on 7 and 8.1 just fine as well.

You are doing VR and that's well supported under 7 and 8.1. But not everything that was released last year for the PC. At this point, 10 is the only OS that's going to get support for EVERTYHING going forward. 7 and 8.1 will get support for almost everything but that will continuously drop. Small dribbles here, larger dribbles over time. I said from the start that 10 would have a different set of problems that 8.x. I think one of those problems is the disparity of experience. 10 is just working perfectly for almost everything I'm doing now. In the last 15 months I've dropped more money on PCs, both on the hardware and software side than I've ever done in that time frame in my 25 years of dealing with PCs. At this point with Windows 10, everything just works as well as I've ever seen personally on Windows devices.

So that's just me, what works for you works for you but all of this Windows 10 hate, I get a lot of it, don't disagree with it but again, no one really get alternatives for this amount of stuff. Not that you care, not that you should, it's just that people screaming over Windows 10 are now putting people using Windows 10 that aren't having any problems and are happy with in a position of ok, so want me to do? Is it impossible to believe that many people are fine with 10 and that you have no alternative?
 
So you never accepted a Windows Update ever? Microsoft has been pushing updates to PCs for two decades now?

Have you never rejected an update? I certainly have. These day on Windows 7, I only accept security updates, especially after Microsoft demonstrated it's willingness to abuse/misuse updates by putting Windows 10 Malware/Adware on Windows 7 machines.

The point is with the older Windows versions, we have the option to accept or reject them. Not so with Windows 10. If Microsoft wants to make abusive use of updates in the future, Win10 users can't stop that.

I don't want Microsoft with the power to keep changing the OS on me. It's my software on my computer. I should be the one to control what it does.

This is a line in the sand for me.

For now I will just keep happily using Windows 7. But I am not sure what the future holds, with Microsoft's continuing direction of alienating customers.
 
I think its time for another investigation by the EU, for any bullshit reason, so long as it results in a several billion dollar fine to MS for pulling shit like this. In the meantime, we are seriously contemplating moving to Ubuntu the moment the hardware is not compatible with Windows 7 (then keeping W7 in a VM for legacy application needs). After all the crap they pulled with W7 updates to W10, all the pushes for W10, phoning home, reduction in QA processes(?), updates that break PCs or revert settings, etc ... W7 will likely be my last MS operating system.
 
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You mean to tell me that the first two aren't perfect compared to the third? ;)

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if only there was some kind of menu that had programs and files sorted in to groups....

somewhere you could... you know.... Start.

a um..... Start Menu.

what an idea!
 
Have you never rejected an update? I certainly have. These day on Windows 7, I only accept security updates, especially after Microsoft demonstrated it's willingness to abuse/misuse updates by putting Windows 10 Malware/Adware on Windows 7 machines.

The point is with the older Windows versions, we have the option to accept or reject them. Not so with Windows 10. If Microsoft wants to make abusive use of updates in the future, Win10 users can't stop that.

I don't want Microsoft with the power to keep changing the OS on me. It's my software on my computer. I should be the one to control what it does.

This is a line in the sand for me.

For now I will just keep happily using Windows 7. But I am not sure what the future holds, with Microsoft's continuing direction of alienating customers.

My view of updates, what we call change control at the bank, is a very complex thing. The idea that one has complete control over change is a myth. Lots of changes introduced into systems are because others changed something that you now have to fix. Microsoft changed its development model from an essentially waterfall to agile/iterative with Windows 10. Smaller updates quicker amounting to larger changes over time. That's not how Windows was done before. 3+ years of multiple beta cycles. Then production then much smaller changes over the life of that version.

Whatever people want to think of it, that's kind of how most software is developed these days. And when you do it that way, changes become cumulative on that branch of code. I'm not trying to defend Microsoft here but what they are doing is how you get changes out faster. And I think that's much of the issue. Some people simply don't want changes out faster. And they only want certain changes or none at all.

At this point all I'd like is for someone to develop a desktop OS or anything and everyone is happy. A lot of the problems with Windows is that I think it's probably trying to do too much for too many people. From idiot proof to I want full control. From small monitors to huge touch screens, to VR/AR, to whatever. Maybe it is time for Windows to take the Linux approach with 50 different versions for whatever you want. But I think that would destroy one of Windows' great strengths, software compatibility and overall simplicity.
 
I think its time for another investigation by the EU, for any bullshit reason, so long as it results in a several billion dollar fine to MS for pulling shit like this. In the meantime, we are seriously contemplating moving to Ubuntu the moment the hardware is not compatible with Windows 7 (then keeping W7 in a VM for legacy application needs). After all the crap they pulled with W7 updates to W10, all the pushes for W10, phoning home, reduction in QA processes(?), updates that break PCs or revert settings, etc ... W7 will likely be my last MS operating system.

Actually though, this was only about Insider Builds. You can't uninstall these apps in production versions. I do think that one should.
 
Of course, hitting the Windows key for things implies you have a keyboard that HAS a Windows key.....

They can have my 1991 AT mechanical key switch 101-key when they pry it out of my cold dead hands!
It's been in HEAVY use for 25 years and every key still works fine on it and none stick and none of the letters have worn off (they were actually inset into the surface of the plastic).

(my AT DIN5 to PS/2 adapter tied to an IoGear PS/2 to USB adapter works just fine thank you!)

I am not sure you know this or not but you probably weren't even considered when they created the start screen. Glad you enjoy your keyboard though. I don't think I have any piece of technology that is 25 years old anymore at this point.
 
I've had a ton of customers who were very frustrated with Windows 10 until I installed Classic Shell for them..

To Kyle's point, because that's what they were trained to do for 20 years.

You can launch a program in Windows 10 via the following methods.

1. You can point and click or tap via the Start Menu in All Apps or a pinned tile on the right.
2. You can pin an app in the task bar, point and click or tap.
3. You can use WinKey and type out the app name.
4. You can pin it to the desktop, point and click or tap.
5. You can use voice and say "Hey Cortana, open" app name.
 
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To Kyle's point, because that's what they were trained to do for 20 years.
Ahh you're right.... we're kind of idiots for still putting round wheels on cars too.

I mean, just because we've been using round wheels for so long doesn't
mean we shouldn't be embracing changing to square wheels.

Thanks for pointing out we are just trained monkeys. It's so nice to have
smart people like you around when the rest of us are so stupid.

Lol..... point and click.... what the fuck are we thinking?


.
 
to be able to use windows 10 i had to install start10 best 5 bucks i ever spent the start menu that comes with 10 and 8 drove me nuts, befor long ms is going to make sure you cant change anything at all.
 
I have yet to meet anyone IRL who can actually use Windows 8/10 for work without a start menu replacement.

Yep, that's what I'm seeing IRL as well.

I've been in the IT business a long time, I know that it's not just my opinion that counts, it's the customers I serve.
The overwhelming feedback I get from my customers is that Windows 10 Metro/Start menu sucks hard.

It doesn't matter that there's a dozen different ways to do things and you can search for menu items. All irrelevant.
If I sat a customer down and showed them them the dozen ways to get what they want, I'd get nothing but a blank stare.

The "old skool" Windows 7 Start menu and desktop icons are simple, user friendly, and work well. Customers don't
want to search for things and have a dozen more difficult methods to get what they want.

The MS push to make their desktop OS look like a phone or tablet was horribly misguided.
Right up there with "Microsoft Bob" and "Clippy".

.
 
I have yet to meet anyone IRL who can actually use Windows 8/10 for work without a start menu replacement.

Everyone at my work does it. Same applies to a good percent of our customers. I only know of one person that uses a replacement and that is because they were never able to get use to the redesign with XP and has always needed to get everything back to how it was with windows 9X. He is one of our IT people and every person that he tried to force a start menu replacement on has had it removed and went back to the normal start menu.

I also would like to point out there is a different between can't and won't. If you CAN'T operate a computer running windows 8 or above because you can't figure out how to launch a single program then you have serious issues. If you don't like to use it that is something else. You are saying that you have not meet a single person ever that can launch a single program in windows 8 or above because the start menu has a slight change to it of not being in categories but instead is a long list that you scroll through?
 
I also have customers who don't use Start menu replacements, and some office managers who have
said don't install replacements on any of our machines.

That comes from wanting to be "up to speed" with technology and learning new tech.

The thing is, Metro and the Windows 10 Start menu are not really "new technology" at all.
They are just new and different and they suck.

And the new long menu that you have to scroll through..... how is that better?
I'm not getting that one.

ETA: I also meant to say that my customers who do use Windows 10 as is generally
don't like it. It's just that they feel under pressure to use it and learn it because it's new.

.
 
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Maybe it is time for Windows to take the Linux approach with 50 different versions for whatever you want.

Yeah, it's great!

The OS still operates the same and uses the same applets but you can run any interface you want, stuff being locked down to one basic look that can only be changed via third party hacks. :)

[Edit] Sorry, Windows 10 actually has two UI's in one OS - Now that's stupidly confusing!
 
So their thinking is:

- People don't use the built in apps enough!
- I know, let's make them uninstallable, that should convince the people trying to remove them to actually use them!

And another few percent went to another OS that day.
 
Annoyingly, that works only ~60% of the time on my laptop. The other ~40% of the time, it just sits there doing nothing. It doesn't matter how I opened the start menu (click or windows key), it just will not respond to any further input.

Do you have the latest version of Windows 10? Also, what AV or Security Center Software do you have installed? It may be also that a repair install of Windows will fix that without issue. However, if you used a 3rd party program to disable and otherwise change things, it may very well have broken something.
 
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