heatlesssun
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There's something in the Creators Update that even he noted may make him have to rethink that: https://www.thurrott.com/windows/wi...-biggest-windows-10-insider-preview-build-yet
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Microsoft Waves “Early Goodbye” To Windows 7, Pushes Windows 10 Upgrades
- Thread starter Megalith
- Start date
There's something in the Creators Update that even he noted may make him have to rethink that: https://www.thurrott.com/windows/wi...-biggest-windows-10-insider-preview-build-yet
Shotglass01
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Not buying this. I already have Win 10 updates disabled by disabling the Windows Update Service. When I want to update it'll have no problem finding which updates need to be installed and the order in which to install them. Yes, they should not be installed out of order, but the service already figures this out. They've been doing that since XP days. Although I do remember a few, very few, instances during XP's run that a patch or manual update needed to be applied before using MS updates. Monkey God is correct though. There's no reason, whatsoever, that updates can't be chosen by the user of when to install.
heatlesssun
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Again they are cumulative, the last one depends on the prior ones. Yes, you could stop them but can't pick and choose them. And that's really not how it's worked before. It's a property of how iterative development works.
Whether you like it or not, Windows 7 is supported for 3 more years, and Windows 8.1 is supported for 6 more. So where's the fire? The fact Microsoft marketing decided they would rebrand Windows 8.2 as Windows 10 and infest it with malware levels of telemetry and advertisements, plus forced updates that can't be avoided without resorting to hacks, has not created in me a sense of obligation. And since they didn't bother to create any must-have new features in Windows 10, doubly so. Seriously - want to see the closet MSFT employees/investors have a meltdown, ask them for a list of new features. Deflect-deflect-deflect.
Anyhoo, 6 years is plenty of time for Microsoft to pull their heads out of their asses and either create a proper successor to 7, or make some concessions in Windows 10. Meantime? 8.1 with a start menu replacement is actually pretty good - best of both worlds as it stands now.
But hey, if you like 10, by all means.. enjoy your OS level advertisements, and the possibility of waking up any morning to all your settings reset to MS defaults, your drivers replaced by older ones and your programs uninstalled.
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good Lord, I tried to do a reformat of my Windows 7 machine last week and it was a disaster...Windows Update would not work and was stuck on 'Checking for Updates' for over 24 hours before I gave up...I heard about this issue before but never experienced any problems until now...there are apparently a few workarounds involving installing a few base updates first...I might try again next week
heatlesssun
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If you're a large orginazation like us, the fire starts about now. It takes pretty much three years to migrated our desktop fleet of 200k, that's what it took moving from XP to 7. And as much as you like 8.1, 10 is where businesses will be going next. We skipped 8.x.
What is an easy to use, well documented front-end for Postgres? I've tried and tried and tried to use it, but after spending hours making sure everything is installed correctly, still can't input a basic entry through a graphical system. Access just works. And it's what we use at work, so I'm already familiar with it and don't need to spend hours learning a new system to do what I already know how to do.
/dev/null
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Ran into the Same. Thing. Look for SvenBrents thread on this in OS forum. It helped me immensely.
Shotglass01
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This is truth. I've got to image one for myself by the end of the month. First image left me unimpressed. They've chosen Pro here so I expect we're going to have a little more difficulty. But, they've since re-done the image.
ZLoth
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I have been involved with computers for several decades... first as a hobby, and now earning a paycheck. During this time, I have seen many nasty religious wars between different computers and operating systems (e.g. Amiga vs MS-DOS, Windows vs Mac, etc). I just didn't think I would see a nasty fight between two different versions of Windows.
I ran Windows 8 on a test box at work back when it was a insider preview. I did see the performance improvements between Windows 7 and Windows 8. The single biggest failure was that TETRIS (or was it Metro) interface for the start menu which caused the negative User Experience, and I feel it went in the opposite direction of good, productive workflow in a efficient manner. Unlike Windows XP and their start menu by crayons, there was no way to switch batch to an older start menu without using a program such as Classic Shell. Still, if people asked my opinion about upgrading to Windows 10, my answer was, "From Windows 8? Definitely! From Windows 7? It depends on your circumstance."
I don't remember seeing said advertising on my Windows 10 at home. It may be because I had switched off that option, or used Ultimate Windows Tweaker for Windows 10 to turn off that option. (There is also a Ultimate Windows Tweaker for Windows 7 and Windows 8). I do see it on my two test boxes at work, one running Windows 10 Slow Ring, one running Windows 10 Fast Ring. My main computer is still Windows 7.
Now, going back to why this thread is going on in the first place.... the announcement was that Windows 7 in extended support, and would be end-of-lifed in three years. Who was the target of that message? Personal, at home users? No. It was directed towards the big major corporations and government agencies whose deployments number from the thousands to the hundred-of-thousands, if not millions. If you are a [H]ardReader, you are able to quickly adapt to change. For these corporations, you are dealing with people who treat the computer as "that infernal machine" and/or who are resistant to change. So, you have to schedule classes to educate the people on the changes. Imagine the screaming from the sales people who work on commission, stating that if they are sitting in class, they are losing money. Did I mention the attitude of many corporate execs who treat IT as an expense that has to be reduced, and are so resistant to change until it affects a CxO or a major VP?
Even been though software validation process for a corporation? I've been through several of them as a senior support for a Software-as-a-Service vendor. For one particular customer, they have a locked-down environment where software cannot be installed without admin permission on most computers. Sound typical? Did I mention that this is a mixed-enviroment with several different machine configuration depending on your job role, plus they were running Citrix Xen desktop for certain use cases where the users log into a remote desktop. As a result, any piece of software has to go through a six-month software validation period prior to being deployed. Oh, did I mention that the corporation is in one of those heavily regulated industries?
The biggest concern that people have with upgrading from an older operating system to a newer operating system is, "Will my applications and peripherals run with the newer OS?" People aren't that anxious to fork over money to replace perfectly-good equipment or software upgrades that bring minimal improvement. I saw that ten years ago when Vista was first released with it's then-new driver model verses XP driver model. That caused a lot of incompatibility and hurt feelings to the point where people were asking, "Where can I get a new computer with Windows XP installed instead of Windows Vista?"
If you are running Windows 8.1 with modification and that makes you happy, so be it. The ultimate question is, "Does it allow you to get what you need to get accomplished?" For you, it appears that Windows 8.1 fits the bill.
Whether you like it or not, Windows 7 is supported for 3 more years, and Windows 8.1 is supported for 6 more. So where's the fire? The fact Microsoft marketing decided they would rebrand Windows 8.2 as Windows 10 and infuse it with all sorts of consumer-hostile crap like telemetry and advertisements, plus forced updates that can't be avoided without resorting to hacks, has not created in me a sense of obligation. And since they didn't bother to create any must-have new features in Windows 10, doubly so. Seriously - want to see the closet MSFT employees/investors have a meltdown, ask them for a list of new features. You've never seen the bottom-of-barrel scraped as hard.
Anyhoo, 6 years is plenty of time for Microsoft to pull their heads out of their asses and either create a proper successor to 7, or make some concessions in Windows 10. As it turns out, 8.1 with a start menu replacement is actually pretty good - best of both worlds as it stands now.
But hey if you like 10, by all means.. enjoy your OS level advertisements, and the possibility of waking up any morning to all your settings reset to MS defaults, your hardware drivers replaced by older ones and your programs uninstalled.
I ran Windows 8 on a test box at work back when it was a insider preview. I did see the performance improvements between Windows 7 and Windows 8. The single biggest failure was that TETRIS (or was it Metro) interface for the start menu which caused the negative User Experience, and I feel it went in the opposite direction of good, productive workflow in a efficient manner. Unlike Windows XP and their start menu by crayons, there was no way to switch batch to an older start menu without using a program such as Classic Shell. Still, if people asked my opinion about upgrading to Windows 10, my answer was, "From Windows 8? Definitely! From Windows 7? It depends on your circumstance."
I don't remember seeing said advertising on my Windows 10 at home. It may be because I had switched off that option, or used Ultimate Windows Tweaker for Windows 10 to turn off that option. (There is also a Ultimate Windows Tweaker for Windows 7 and Windows 8). I do see it on my two test boxes at work, one running Windows 10 Slow Ring, one running Windows 10 Fast Ring. My main computer is still Windows 7.
Now, going back to why this thread is going on in the first place.... the announcement was that Windows 7 in extended support, and would be end-of-lifed in three years. Who was the target of that message? Personal, at home users? No. It was directed towards the big major corporations and government agencies whose deployments number from the thousands to the hundred-of-thousands, if not millions. If you are a [H]ardReader, you are able to quickly adapt to change. For these corporations, you are dealing with people who treat the computer as "that infernal machine" and/or who are resistant to change. So, you have to schedule classes to educate the people on the changes. Imagine the screaming from the sales people who work on commission, stating that if they are sitting in class, they are losing money. Did I mention the attitude of many corporate execs who treat IT as an expense that has to be reduced, and are so resistant to change until it affects a CxO or a major VP?
Even been though software validation process for a corporation? I've been through several of them as a senior support for a Software-as-a-Service vendor. For one particular customer, they have a locked-down environment where software cannot be installed without admin permission on most computers. Sound typical? Did I mention that this is a mixed-enviroment with several different machine configuration depending on your job role, plus they were running Citrix Xen desktop for certain use cases where the users log into a remote desktop. As a result, any piece of software has to go through a six-month software validation period prior to being deployed. Oh, did I mention that the corporation is in one of those heavily regulated industries?
The biggest concern that people have with upgrading from an older operating system to a newer operating system is, "Will my applications and peripherals run with the newer OS?" People aren't that anxious to fork over money to replace perfectly-good equipment or software upgrades that bring minimal improvement. I saw that ten years ago when Vista was first released with it's then-new driver model verses XP driver model. That caused a lot of incompatibility and hurt feelings to the point where people were asking, "Where can I get a new computer with Windows XP installed instead of Windows Vista?"
If you are running Windows 8.1 with modification and that makes you happy, so be it. The ultimate question is, "Does it allow you to get what you need to get accomplished?" For you, it appears that Windows 8.1 fits the bill.
heatlesssun
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Let me see, when did we EVER hear Microsoft push its new Windows OS as more secure than prior versions? Oh, EVERY ONE INCLUDING WINDOWS 7! How many XP fans were going on with "It's FUD, XP is just as secure as 7!" and "XP had years of support left!" ? And then how many businesses come down to the wire to move after YEARS of being told the end was coming?
Oh I think you're wrong. They REALLY give a shit that people DON'T have this option.
Ugh, that's insane that basic functionality like that should be so different between the two versions.
I take it you're a "glass half full" kind of person.
Apple is an absolutely terrible model in terms of planned obsolescence. The company went from being the gold standard for long-term support (look at the Mac Plus and all the versions of Mac OS it supported) to being the worst. However, I have to say that Mavericks (10.9.5) is a far better OS than Windows 10 — except for playing demanding games since Apple hasn't put any effort into getting beyond an outdated version of OpenGL. Unfortunately, Apple, like Microsoft, wants to force-feed everyone its latest cruft so it stopped providing security updates.
The only thing I use Windows for is to play the occasional video game. I have a machine running 7, a machine running 8.1 (just for benchmarking/testing/tweaking), and one running 10. Of all of them, 7 is the least irksome and 10 is definitely the worst. The UI is a mess, even if we ignore the clear fact that the OS is one big steaming pile of spyware.
I have found Linux to have an even worse UI than Windows so I'm sticking with Mac for now, even though I'm less than impressed with Tim Cook's UI vision.
I wouldn't terribly mind dual booting W10, but my hardware has no official support or drivers. And unless they want to pay the cost to upgrade my hardware (Which is plenty competent and powerful enough), it's not happening any time soon.
Plus, they just haven't given me any incentive from a gaming stand point to want to upgrade. DX12 hasn't been impressive at all, and Vulkan supports just about any OS. And they haven't ported the Halo games yet(Halo Wars is a start, but based on what I heard, doesn't sound like the HW1 port is going to be supporting arbitrary resolutions. ;srs microsoft?
, so there's not much incentive.
Plus, they just haven't given me any incentive from a gaming stand point to want to upgrade. DX12 hasn't been impressive at all, and Vulkan supports just about any OS. And they haven't ported the Halo games yet(Halo Wars is a start, but based on what I heard, doesn't sound like the HW1 port is going to be supporting arbitrary resolutions. ;srs microsoft?
, so there's not much incentive.Gaming companies should unite around Vulkan and dump DX12. Of course, that won't happen. Consumer-friendly actions, like freeing us from the clutches of MS, aren't compatible with "the market" apparently.
BulletDust
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Really? My Linux desktop operates and looks far better than my macOS Sierra desktop IMO.
I'm using Mavericks. I'll take your word for it. Every time I've tried Linux distros I haven't been at all impressed by the UI.
DeathFromBelow
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ManofGod
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Does NextPVR support the Windows Media Center remote control?
heatlesssun
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I've not used a WMC remote in some time opting for mini-Bluetooth keyboards for a while but I have several still around and can test that out.
heatlesssun
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Funny thing is, for a lot of Windows tablet folks, this is true. For keyboard and mouse users, no way.
the_servicer
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I wonder if Google's success is convincing Microsoft that it's okay not to support an OS for a whole decade. Chrome OS end of life occurs after only five years.
On the contrary. For KB/M users, it's two clicks to download and install StartIsBack, ClassicShell or any number of start menu replacements, and 8.1 gives you the best of both worlds: the post-7 kernel improvements that MS carried forward to Windows 8.2 aka Windows 10, minus all the headaches and gotchas of 10 like forced updates, telemetry, app bloatware, settings reset to defaults without permission, and intrusive OS level advertisements.
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heatlesssun
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You're conflating like everything you don't like about Windows 10 into a simple point about on thing, OBE for keyboard and mouse use. Any case, your points about Windows 8.1 are superfluous at best, no significant groups are looking at Windows 8.1 as the replacement for 7 because you don't like 10. Next stop for us at the bank, Windows 10, it's pretty much a done deal. I know that 2020 seems like way off for you but when you have 200k machines to convert and countless apps to certify and test, 3 years isn't really enough time to do the work.
heatlesssun
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If you or anyone else can provide an alternative to Windows 10 that supports all the things I do without losing thousands in hardware and software that works well, I'd be more than happy to use it.
heatlesssun
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A lot of it is because there's worse listeners than Microsoft. Surface sux. VR sux. The Windows Store sux. Nobody wants an OS that works across desktops and tablets. On and on and on. The PCs I have in my personal life, I think their awesome. And yeah, they all run Windows 10 but so what, that's not the thing I care about. I care about all that this kind of stuff can do. And the haters, they don't listen. From use Windows 8.1, that pretty much had been abandoned to stick with an 8 year old OS in Windows 7 that would work well on a Surface as is anyway to Linux is fantastic because it runs 33% of their games. So like losing 66% of the stuff you paid thousands over the years is like fantastic.
Everything has it's problems. For me personally, Windows 10 has far fewer problems that the alternatives. I gave up one thing moving to Windows 10 and only one thing specifically, CableCare support that was barely using anyway because of how cumbersome it can be. 99.9% of the people bashing Windows 10 have probably never seen a CableCard setup.
ZLoth
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How many businesses could not be bothered to upgrade from Windows XP after not only Windows XP EOL, but also vendor support for Windows XP for the product that they were using had also ended? I got several screaming calls from customers because we ended support for Windows XP, and they demanded that they be downgraded to the previous version or they would cancel. (Sigh)
Nie mój cyrk, nie moje małpy.
Per this Microsoft page, retail end of sale for Windows 8.1 is September 1, 2015. End of sales for PCs with Windows preinstalled was October 31, 2016. Yes, I'm sure you can get a key, but why bother.
If you are happy running Windows 8.1, and I am happy running Windows 10, why can't we just repect the fact that we agree to disagree and move along. It's not like Microsoft really cares about what we say here anyways.
That's nice. From what I can see, Microsoft makes their money off the corporate user, not the individual user. And, the de-facto standards in the workworld is Microsoft Windows and Microsoft Office, not Ubuntu Linux and LibreOffice.... unfortunately. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
BulletDust
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You have to understand that Heatlesssun represents the billions of computer users globally, if he states that Windows 10 is the only OS capable of allowing him to achieve what he wants to achieve on a PC than that fact applies to everyone.
You have to understand that Heatlesssun represents the billions of computer users globally, if he states that Windows 10 is the only OS capable of allowing him to achieve what he wants to achieve on a PC than that fact applies to everyone.
I want his free time.
ManofGod
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You have to understand that Heatlesssun represents the billions of computer users globally, if he states that Windows 10 is the only OS capable of allowing him to achieve what he wants to achieve on a PC than that fact applies to everyone.
Oh, I completely understand, if we are not beating the Linux is wonderful drum all the time, what we have to say is not relevant. No surprise there but, you may want to consider the fact that people just want their stuff to work and move on. Linux on the Desktop is fun but, it is dead based upon DeathfromBelow's criteria.
D
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You folks do realize this is a thread about Windows 7 and Windows 10, right? Right?
This is sorta-kinda like the scene in Jurassic Park where the chaos theorist Malcolm is commenting on how the scientists that brought the dinos back to life don't seem to understand that life itself - when given the chance - will find a way to stay alive.
"Linux... finds a way... to creep into every discussion about Windows just because..."
But seriously, my god people, it's been a few decades now, move along.
This is sorta-kinda like the scene in Jurassic Park where the chaos theorist Malcolm is commenting on how the scientists that brought the dinos back to life don't seem to understand that life itself - when given the chance - will find a way to stay alive.
"Linux... finds a way... to creep into every discussion about Windows just because..."
But seriously, my god people, it's been a few decades now, move along.
heatlesssun
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You have to understand that Heatlesssun represents the billions of computer users globally, if he states that Windows 10 is the only OS capable of allowing him to achieve what he wants to achieve on a PC than that fact applies to everyone.
I don't represent billions of PC users anymore than you do.
Shotglass01
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That was gold! Although I have to admit, slow times here for me too now. Needs to pick up!
If you do manage to get a fresh install done, use something like Reflect and snapshot the install and save it so you just need to re-image to that than the install tricks.
It's pretty blatant sabotage when a crude work around exists but it hasn't made it to a rolled out fix over 6 months later.
It says a lot when the main reason to upgrade a 7 years old Windows version to a new one is that you have to because of EOL support.