Netflix Is “Killing” DVD Sales, Research Finds

Megalith

Megalith

24-bit/48kHz
Staff member
Joined
Aug 20, 2006
Messages
13,000
This is a conclusion you could have made yourself, but researchers now have empirical data to confirm that Netflix does, in fact, affect disc sales: any titles that are removed from the streaming service get a noticeable bump in sales. Now the industry gets to blame Netflix for hurting the industry when they get tired of blaming piracy.

The experiment took place when the Epix entertainment network, which distributes movies and TV-shows from major studios including Paramount and Lionsgate, left Netflix for Hulu in 2015. Since Hulu has a much smaller market share, these videos no longer reached a large part of the audience. At least not by default. The researchers used difference to examine the effect on DVD sales, while controlling for various other variables. The results, published in a paper this week, show that DVD sales increased significantly after the content was taken off Netflix, almost by a quarter.
 
Last edited:
Jorona said:
MORE CONVENIENT COMPETITOR KILLING LESS CONVENIENT PLATFORM IN SALES!
Click to expand...

Until the owner of the content only lets it be on the less convenient platform. That's the Netflix problem in a nutshell. They don't own most of the content so it can disappear at the whim of the owner. Which is supremely inconvenient if you happen to be in the middle of a TV series when it suddenly goes away and you don't know when or if it will be coming back.
 
Dwango said:
Until the owner of the content only lets it be on the less convenient platform. That's the Netflix problem in a nutshell. They don't own most of the content so it can disappear at the whim of the owner. Which is supremely inconvenient if you happen to be in the middle of a TV series when it suddenly goes away and you don't know when or if it will be coming back.
Click to expand...

Very true. The thing is, I could (and do) have other streaming services for less than the cost of two or three new ultra HD Blurays per month. It would take years for my personal library to even be half of what's available streaming. Combine that with being a cord cutter, and you can have nearly every streaming service for less then a cable bill and those couple of blu rays. SlingTV, Netflix, Hulu, and Amazon are what I run, and I couldn't be happier.
 
Netflix isn't even that good of a platform. I cancelled my subscription when it went up to $10 a month. I don't watch a lot of movies, so it's cheaper for me to just rent movies using either my cable provider's On Demand, or else Amazon, Google, or Microsoft streaming services. Netflix has a terrible selection, and they're constantly getting rid of movies I watch. It's $10 a month for access to a mixed bag of stuff that's mildly appealing to a large number of people, and if you end up using it an average of once a month... it doesn't pay off. There were months when I didn't even use it.

I never understood the appeal of cord cutting, unless you just do it on principle. ISPs tend to also be cable providers, and jack up your rates if you cut off the cable to the point that you only save about $20 a month if you cancel your cable anyway... plus, they tend to not count their own services against any data caps you might have, while you have to worry more about going over with streaming. Maybe in the future, it will be a good deal... but right now, cable company ISPs are in a position to make cord cutting very, very painful.

I buy DVDs if I can't get the movie I want on any streaming service... especially if it's something I know I'll want to watch over and over again. Older movies and foreign films that weren't very popular tend to fall between the cracks.
 
Last edited:
That is why Netflix and other streaming services are pushing so hard to become content creators, not just content aggregateors.

I used to buy a good number of DVDs (maybe 15 a year?) In the past 5 years, I think I've bought one, and it was for my kid to watch. I have bought a few electronic copies (iTunes/Amazon/etc, not the streaming service) of movies, but even that is down to around 3-5 a year. I do still subscribe to Netflix's DVD service.

If a movie is pulled from Netflix, I certainly don't go out and buy the DVD, I watch it through Netflix's DVD mail service, which has a lot more titles than their streaming service does, or I buy it online and download it if it's something I am certain I'll enjoy.
 
It could be argued both ways, right?

any titles that are removed from the streaming service get a noticeable bump in sales.
Click to expand...
If the movie stayed on store shelves with no Netflix, sales might continue to decline. Taking it off might be giving them a boost because people say "Hey, I saw that on Netflix and it was good! I should buy that!"


Movies suck. I don't even have Netflix, Hulu, or any other streaming service. I cut the cable a couple years ago, and I essentially just survive off local broadcast channels in the rare instances that I actually want to watch something.

I go to the movie theaters once or twice a year, typically out of boredom and rarely because there is a movie I urgently want to see.

How about you stop making stupid movies like Fast & Furious after the 4th try of trying to milk the franchise dry? When I see things like that it just screams "Our millenial story team sucks so we just recycle what people previously came up with and try to create side stories"
 
Why are we talking about movies? Its all about TV shows now. a movie doesn't have nearly enough time to develop characters have a proper climax, and ultimately is too much and not enough of a time sink. Shows like game of thrones, walking dead, west world -- etc each episode is shorter then a movie so its easier to swallow if you have a busy day -- but have 10+ episodes + multiple seasons. Its soo much content compared to a movie that the replay value is even better -- you might remember the plot but you will not remember word for word like i do with my favorite movies.

I would argue with anyone, netflix is worth its weight in gold. I have discovered many tv shows on there that i actually enjoyed -- that i would not have given the time of day otherwise. $10 -- thats the price of two movie rentals from your on demand service / google or amazon without promotion. Why they charge $5 for a single rental is beyond me -- i buy blurays for $7-10 generally -- i find myself wanting to buy movies, but then put it back and say -- i probably wont even watch it anyway. I have probably 80 bluray movies -- watch maybe 10 a year. The ones of high replay value in my family or usually pixar stuff for the kids. toy story, wreck it ralph, wall-e, etc.
 
Ducman69 said:
Comcast: "Hmmm, how much do you think it would bug them out if we capped their data so they would have to go back to mailing physical disks for 40GB BluRay movies and TV seasons..." *rubs nipples*
Click to expand...

Ha HA. I don't have comcast!
 
All eggs in one basket, streaming over internet. Still not a fan and putting bandwidth providers far too much in the power seat. Internet should be considered a basic utility now, so many companies/services only have internet correspondence now.

Brave new world...
 
If they are talking about shitty movies then their conclusions are correct.
 
athenian200 said:
Netflix isn't even that good of a platform. I cancelled my subscription when it went up to $10 a month. I don't watch a lot of movies, so it's cheaper for me to just rent movies using either my cable provider's On Demand, or else Amazon, Google, or Microsoft streaming services. Netflix has a terrible selection, and they're constantly getting rid of movies I watch. It's $10 a month for access to a mixed bag of stuff that's mildly appealing to a large number of people, and if you end up using it an average of once a month... it doesn't pay off. There were months when I didn't even use it.

I never understood the appeal of cord cutting, unless you just do it on principle. ISPs tend to also be cable providers, and jack up your rates if you cut off the cable to the point that you only save about $20 a month if you cancel your cable anyway... plus, they tend to not count their own services against any data caps you might have, while you have to worry more about going over with streaming. Maybe in the future, it will be a good deal... but right now, cable company ISPs are in a position to make cord cutting very, very painful.

I buy DVDs if I can't get the movie I want on any streaming service... especially if it's something I know I'll want to watch over and over again. Older movies and foreign films that weren't very popular tend to fall between the cracks.
Click to expand...


Well, I can't say, perhaps I live somewhere where the rules don't apply.

I have had Cable Internet (Cox), since it was first available in my area, around 2005 or so maybe? And it was about $50 then and it's still about $50 or $60 bucks now. I have bounced between Cox Cable, to DirectTV, to cutting the cord. I do not miss my $160 DirectTV bill at all. In the mean time I have run NetFlix for many years, but I mostly exhausted much of their content a year or so ago, and switched to Amazon Prime and HBO Now. When I get tired of one or the other I'll drop them for something else, and eventually roll back to NetFlix or some new service. I have been exceedingly pleased with this option and on those rare occasions when I do end up watching TV somewhere cause that is just what is available for a captive audience, It doesn't take long to reinforce for me the wisdom of my decision.

Now this was my decision, I am not saying it's a good move for anyone else. But it is working for me and your mileage may very.
 
buttons said:
Why are we talking about movies? Its all about TV shows now. a movie doesn't have nearly enough time to develop characters have a proper climax, and ultimately is too much and not enough of a time sink. Shows like game of thrones, walking dead, west world -- etc each episode is shorter then a movie so its easier to swallow if you have a busy day -- but have 10+ episodes + multiple seasons. Its soo much content compared to a movie that the replay value is even better -- you might remember the plot but you will not remember word for word like i do with my favorite movies.

I would argue with anyone, netflix is worth its weight in gold. I have discovered many tv shows on there that i actually enjoyed -- that i would not have given the time of day otherwise. $10 -- thats the price of two movie rentals from your on demand service / google or amazon without promotion. Why they charge $5 for a single rental is beyond me -- i buy blurays for $7-10 generally -- i find myself wanting to buy movies, but then put it back and say -- i probably wont even watch it anyway. I have probably 80 bluray movies -- watch maybe 10 a year. The ones of high replay value in my family or usually pixar stuff for the kids. toy story, wreck it ralph, wall-e, etc.
Click to expand...


Amazon Prime is $120 + a year, a little over $10 a month, and it comes with all those other "Prime" benefits like free shipping. Now I'll admit, it's not a gimme, but it's a good buy if you already order a couple products from Amazon each month and I do. My wife's orders for Make Up alone covers the costs. I just wanted to bring it up since you mentioned Amazon.
 
athenian200 said:
It's $10 a month for access to a mixed bag of stuff that's mildly appealing to a large number of people,
Click to expand...
Thats the point, drop your expectation to a reasonable level. Don't expect to watch new, out of the gate block busters for $10.
 
Jorona said:
Very true. The thing is, I could (and do) have other streaming services for less than the cost of two or three new ultra HD Blurays per month. It would take years for my personal library to even be half of what's available streaming. Combine that with being a cord cutter, and you can have nearly every streaming service for less then a cable bill and those couple of blu rays. SlingTV, Netflix, Hulu, and Amazon are what I run, and I couldn't be happier.
Click to expand...

I would assume most people who are cord cutters in the US have at the very least Amazon Prime video, Netflix and Hulu. Between the three (and maybe Crackle's free service) you can cover most older TV shows and all the original "streaming only" content they provide. If you were hell bent on getting the premium cable channels you can now get Starz, Showtime and HBO sans cable too. But you still have to know where those shows went to when they leave one service for another and they don't always resurface right away. Of course nothing short of owning the whole collection on DVD/Bluray will solve that for you. And I personally prefer the inconvenience of a show disappearing from a streaming service to having bookshelves full of discs I only watch once in a blue moon (not that I don't have some of those anyway and that irks the hell out of me).
 
Well, any service that runs M.A.S.H. will give you your money's worth.

The series, which depicted events occurring during a three-year military conflict, spanned 256 episodes and lasted 11 seasons.
Click to expand...

I watched one or more episodes a day and it lasted a very long time. And it was worth it to see it all over again and in proper order.
 
I have Netflix and I buy Blu-rays on occasion still. If it's a movie I want to watch repeatedly, I want it permanently (could leave the streaming library eventually) and I want maximum video and audio quality.

As for DVD sales specifically...well, I'm surprised DVDs are selling at all given the fact that they are 480p and 4K TVs are being pushed these days.
 
I've been off cable TV for something like 15 years now and like others here say, series are where it's at.
In the last week, I watched all of the BBC's Sherlock episodes and they were top-notch. I did have to tune my TV into PBS for the season finale on Sunday as well as a bit of grey-legality torrenting for season 4.
 
I buy Blu-rays when they are cheap due to the higher quality. I have no problems watching Netflix (Travelers is a great new show, too... just throwing it out there).

I'm fine with shitty movies. I've found some good shitty movies (3/10, easily) that were great. Not a good movie by any critics point of view, nor from an artistic pov. But, good story or something that makes it a better movie in my opinion. Good selection with Netflix. I'll watch a lot of mediocre or shit movies no problem on Netflix. I wouldn't buy them on DVD/Blu... If I did, it would be on sale. I have bought movies/TV series when they weren't on Netflix anymore. Once by accident but with the best timing. Chuck. Went off Netflix the same day I got my complete series on Blu. No idea it was leaving Netflix, either. It was willed by the Universe and Xenu and Paul that I finish watching that series (and I did).

I think Netflix/Hulu/Amazon have really started to go from good to great due to their original series.
 
One of the best things about Netflix (and any unlimited On-Demand service) is that you can "shop around" very very quickly. Not sure if you want to watch something? Just pop on and watch the first 5 minutes. If it sucks, it's no sweat - just find something else. You simply can't do that with disks. When I'm jogging, I just pull up random stand-up performances or stupid conspiracy TV shows...because I can. Best case, they occupy my time for 20 minutes and entertain me. If they suck, I bail in 5 minutes and choose one of the dozens of other ones. I love it.
Video quality isn't always the best, but then again...does that really matter that much? When you factor in the film grain and even mild letterboxing for most movies, it's not even obvious most of the time. Especially if you aren't on a big TV. I think my one gripe about most online streaming is the audio. Dolby Digital Plus is absolutely horrible with dialogue.
 
I don't buy anything on DVD anymore... A few things on BluRay but mostly rent from Redbox.
 
Uncle said:
Thats the point, drop your expectation to a reasonable level. Don't expect to watch new, out of the gate block busters for $10.
Click to expand...

This is exactly what's killing the traditional model. They're going to have to shift their expectations to allow blockbuster rentals for $10 near theatrical release day. It's just a matter of when.
 
Discs are an obsolete distribution method for movies if you have a fast, modern internet connection. Hollywood is stuck in the past.

Gigantic, affordable 1080p and 4K TVs have also made theaters mostly obsolete. No reason to go to a theater when you can have a similar high resolution big screen experience at home. I maybe see one movie a year in the theater now.
 
Last edited:
Shotglass01 said:
This is exactly what's killing the traditional model. They're going to have to shift their expectations to allow blockbuster rentals for $10 near theatrical release day. It's just a matter of when.
Click to expand...

Yes, they will. I still go to the theater. It's just a LOT less than it used to be.

Allow $10 rentals and I'll watch all the big movies. I'd watch 10x the theatrical release movies if I could do it in my own home.
 
They have it the cost/licensing fee curve worked out well in advance.

Back in the old days (VHS) studies calculated ahead of time which movies would sell well versus rent well. They maximized their dollar on the movies that would rent well over sell well, by cranking the price of the movies to $80 or more. (This is in the 80's remind...$80 for a movie was a fortune)

Same thing happens today. But instead of a physical $8i0 tape that gets rented out over and over, they have a licensing fee which gets watched over and over for a small fortune.

Case in point: Disney realizes that the older star wars films would make a fortune so they pulled them from Netflix so people would be forced to buy them. (Best time to raise interest in the older films is when a new one is released.)

So why is any one surprised? The bubble people and money pigs know what they are doing.
 
Ok. But what's the net profit from the Netflix deal versus the net profit from the increased DVD sales over the same length of time?

If Netflix is paying you $1mil for 10 movies over a 3 month window, you're making $333k per month net profit, or $33.3k per movie/month.

If DVD sales at a 25% increase sale rate, don't outpace that number, you're losing money. Also, keeping in mind that DVD sales have other costs (manufacturering, distribution, retail-margin), so a $20 DVD may only yield $3 profit (example).
 
33333
Cmdrmonkey said:
Discs are an obsolete distribution method for movies if you have a fast, modern internet connection. Hollywood is stuck in the past.

Gigantic, affordable 1080p and 4K TVs have also made theaters mostly obsolete. No reason to go to a theater when you can have a similar high resolution big screen experience at home. I maybe see one movie a year in the theater now.
Click to expand...
I agree - I took my kids to see the movie Sing (not my choice!) the other day. The cinema is actually pretty nice - recliner seats, ok screen, ok sound. The concession stand is the ever present rip-off. My kids received gift cards for the concessions (normally I ninja snacks and drinks in) - $11 for 2 large water downed Cokes and popcorn. They ate about half the popcorn, and drank less than half the Coke.
At home, I have a projector in my basement with about an 8' diagonal screen. It's 1080p - not the best projector in the world, but gets the job done. I can pause, rewind, and $11 has me more food and drinks than I could get through in a movie. Besides having new movies, I don't really see the advantage of going to a cinema vs my basement. Oh yeah, I don't have annoying people (except my kids I suppose) in my house bothering me while watching a movie.
 
I have a large collection of music CD's and DVD's. These take up a lot oh physical room in my basement. Not too mention, when I want to use one of these (which I don't since I ripped all of them and use Plex), I'd have to hunt the disc down, load it, and hope it still works/doesn't scratch/etc.
Compare this to an on demand service like Netflix - you go to the Search button and see if they have it. You might even browse. I don't have to worry about my disc going bad or storing it.
For me it wasn't really the money, it is the convenience. Anyone remember the players that let you load up like 80 discs? Crazy shit!
 
Frankly, any disk I buy now is digital. That way I just watch it through VUDU and my Roku. That and Netflix have me covered.
 
DigitalGriffin said:
They have it the cost/licensing fee curve worked out well in advance.

Back in the old days (VHS) studies calculated ahead of time which movies would sell well versus rent well. They maximized their dollar on the movies that would rent well over sell well, by cranking the price of the movies to $80 or more. (This is in the 80's remind...$80 for a movie was a fortune)

Same thing happens today. But instead of a physical $8i0 tape that gets rented out over and over, they have a licensing fee which gets watched over and over for a small fortune.

Case in point: Disney realizes that the older star wars films would make a fortune so they pulled them from Netflix so people would be forced to buy them. (Best time to raise interest in the older films is when a new one is released.)

So why is any one surprised? The bubble people and money pigs know what they are doing.
Click to expand...


Not sure the Star Wars thing is relevant - I don't remember Star Wars ever being streamed on Netflix.

And future SW movies will be hitting Netflix at the same time as they hit DVD thanks to the new deal they have together - same for Marvel movies.
 
For me, it's more like there's a bunch of movies out there that are great to watch, but I wouldn't consider myself a fan of many enough to actually own them on DVD/Blu-Ray. I plan on buying every movie set in the Marvel Universe, and a few other series I like, but beyond that? Not really motivated to own a crapton of movies that I'm only going to watch maybe once or twice at most, and then catch it on television sometime and go "oh yeah, I have this on disc." Really no different than seeing it on Netflix and going "Oh yeah, I have this on disc."
 
I used to couldn't wait until my internet was fast enough to stream (back in my 768k DSL days). Now we have 12 so we're always streaming.

I spent years building Media Center PCs around the house and had a PC running 24/7 just to hold ripped DVDs. My youngest son was always watching something on Media Center. Now he's always watching a Disney show on Netflix. It was fun back then, and I miss it. I bought a WD 4TB My Cloud last summer to replace the file server, and we hardly ever use it.
 
The thing I don't like though, and many here have said it, is the "acceptability" of something inferior. I've always been a fan of new technology, and although I might not be one of the first wave of early adopters I was maybe around the 2nd, so to speak. Now we've seen mp3's basically replace CDs. I've seen people here not support Bluray. People ignored 3D. Now we have Ultra HD Bluray, and no one really seems to be that interested in that. Streaming is "good enough". I don't like the trends.
 
If you can't find something interesting on Netflix you either are limiting your interests or you haven't tried to watch anything.

It's like walking into library and seeing they don't have your favorite book and proclaiming they just have shit.

You may not realize your favorite book IS there, you just didn't know it was your favorite yet.


athenian200 said:
Netflix isn't even that good of a platform. I cancelled my subscription when it went up to $10 a month. I don't watch a lot of movies, so it's cheaper for me to just rent movies using either my cable provider's On Demand, or else Amazon, Google, or Microsoft streaming services. Netflix has a terrible selection, and they're constantly getting rid of movies I watch. It's $10 a month for access to a mixed bag of stuff that's mildly appealing to a large number of people, and if you end up using it an average of once a month... it doesn't pay off. There were months when I didn't even use it.

I never understood the appeal of cord cutting, unless you just do it on principle. ISPs tend to also be cable providers, and jack up your rates if you cut off the cable to the point that you only save about $20 a month if you cancel your cable anyway... plus, they tend to not count their own services against any data caps you might have, while you have to worry more about going over with streaming. Maybe in the future, it will be a good deal... but right now, cable company ISPs are in a position to make cord cutting very, very painful.

I buy DVDs if I can't get the movie I want on any streaming service... especially if it's something I know I'll want to watch over and over again. Older movies and foreign films that weren't very popular tend to fall between the cracks.
Click to expand...
 
Streaming sucks. I still buy discs...but I do stream some stuff.

I've got a fiber optic line to the house. Yeah, it's some sort of fast speed. Way better than my TWC coax. Having said that, Amazon Prime and Netflix share similar streaming drawbacks:
- They clip frames. You can see action "jump" when it should be smooth.
- They compress color. There is obvious banding with sky scenes, or other scenes with minor color gradient across a large area. It's almost like 8 bit color is being used. Don't even start with blacks.
- The audio is not fully 5.1. Sometimes it is, sometimes it isn't. It -should- be 5.1 ALWAYS when the movie is 5.1. They strip it down to stereo, or drop a channel. (My amp shows the audio channels being received, and then converts it to 5.1 using whichever codec I've selected. No, upconvert is NOT the same as native.)

Finally, any streaming service can be terminated at any moment, whether it is content, the overall service, or the cable/fiber system. I've got a generator. With a disc and power, I can always watch when I want.

The benefits to streaming are convenience and low cost per movie/episode compared to disc.

The drawbacks are too large for me to accept streaming as a quality substitute. The compression artifacts (both visual and audio) are too noticeable.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top