Tesla Reveals How Much Using Its Supercharger Network Will Cost

Megalith

Megalith

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This is irrelevant to those of you who already have a Tesla, but anyone who purchases one after January 15th will have to pay to use the company’s Supercharger network. The good news is that it should still be cheaper than gas. The company’s main reason for making owners pay up is so they can expand the network.

Most users will pay a set price per kilowatt-hour, while the rest will be charged per minute. This is due to state regulations that affect electricity sales by non-utility companies. You can check out Tesla's site to see the pricing structure for your own state. Same goes in other regions like Europe, in which local regulations will affect pricing. Bear in mind, the ultra-fast Supercharger network isn't meant to be an unlimited fuel source during a regular commute. These chargers are designed to support long-distance driving. Tesla gives some cost examples on its site -- Supercharging from Los Angeles to New York will cost about $120 (roughly £100 and AU$160), while a shorter trip between LA and San Francisco will cost about $15 (roughly £10, AU$20). This is just for cars ordered after January 15. All cars ordered prior to this date will be grandfathered into the unlimited free Supercharging program.
 
Los Angeles to San Francisco is around 383 miles (per google maps)

Using the Supercharger network, the cost to drive that is around $15 (from Tesla's web site)

Taking the same drive in my Camry Hybrid
$2.53/gal (Fountain Valley Costco I'd pass on my way to LA)
45 MPG (Mileage I get if I don't go too much over the speed limit)
That's 8.51 gallons of gas for a total of $21.53

When gas was $1.99 / gallon it would have been slightly cheaper in my Camry.
If I was driving a Prius @ 53 mpg the numbers would be even better.

Not much of a savings, and you don't have to wait 30+ minutes for a partial recharge.
With my Camry Hybrid I could turn around and I might just make it all the way back to Los Angeles on a single tank of gas.


You don't buy a Tesla to save money. Most buyers in this area buy them so show off, or so they can use the car pool lanes with a single driver during rush hour.
 
nutzo said:
Los Angeles to San Francisco is around 383 miles (per google maps)

Using the Supercharger network, the cost to drive that is around $15 (from Tesla's web site)

Taking the same drive in my Camry Hybrid
$2.53/gal (Fountain Valley Costco I'd pass on my way to LA)
45 MPG (Mileage I get if I don't go too much over the speed limit)
That's 8.51 gallons of gas for a total of $21.53

When gas was $1.99 / gallon it would have been slightly cheaper in my Camry.
If I was driving a Prius @ 53 mpg the numbers would be even better.

Not much of a savings, and you don't have to wait 30+ minutes for a partial recharge.
With my Camry Hybrid I could turn around and I might just make it all the way back to Los Angeles on a single tank of gas.


You don't buy a Tesla to save money. Most buyers in this area buy them so show off, or so they can use the car pool lanes with a single driver during rush hour.
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Yeah, it seems slightly expensive. But I guess makes sense.

I'm surprised they didn't get around the "utility" rules by saying the power is free, you're just paying membership to access the lot.
 
Not a big fan of this change. There's just no way to justify spending 100k+ if I have to also pay for charging my car on trips, which is actually typically inconvenient since many chargers are out of the way. They say you get the first 400kwh free, which is roughly 1000miles, but I can beat that easily in one summer. I expect to keep my car around for a long time now since I'm grandfathered into free supercharging. They should have limited this to the Model 3 owners.
 
Sufu said:
Not a big fan of this change. There's just no way to justify spending 100k+ if I have to also pay for charging my car on trips, which is actually typically inconvenient since many chargers are out of the way. They say you get the first 400kwh free, which is roughly 1000miles, but I can beat that easily in one summer. I expect to keep my car around for a long time now since I'm grandfathered into free supercharging. They should have limited this to the Model 3 owners.
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Yeah but like, you're saving the planet dude, like it makes you feel like better and stuff.
 
nutzo said:
Los Angeles to San Francisco is around 383 miles (per google maps)

Using the Supercharger network, the cost to drive that is around $15 (from Tesla's web site)

Taking the same drive in my Camry Hybrid
$2.53/gal (Fountain Valley Costco I'd pass on my way to LA)
45 MPG (Mileage I get if I don't go too much over the speed limit)
That's 8.51 gallons of gas for a total of $21.53

When gas was $1.99 / gallon it would have been slightly cheaper in my Camry.
If I was driving a Prius @ 53 mpg the numbers would be even better.

Not much of a savings, and you don't have to wait 30+ minutes for a partial recharge.
With my Camry Hybrid I could turn around and I might just make it all the way back to Los Angeles on a single tank of gas.


You don't buy a Tesla to save money. Most buyers in this area buy them so show off, or so they can use the car pool lanes with a single driver during rush hour.
Click to expand...

i can definitely tell you the prius can not do SF to LA at 53mpg from personal experience, it's usually around 35-40 mpg. just don't run out of gas because it costs you 800 dollars to take it to toyota to have everything re-calibrated and it's a required service otherwise the car stays in limp mode.

as far as the money savings goes it really depends on where you live and whether those regions have discounts for owning an electric car.. for example here in spokane electricity is dirt cheap and on top of that there's deals with the electricity provider where you save money for owning one on top of tax breaks from the state and so on. also avista(electricity provider) is doing a deal to test the grid and infrastructure where you can get a charging station installed for free and not be charge for using it. so the savings is there in some places.

Sufu said:
Not a big fan of this change. There's just no way to justify spending 100k+ if I have to also pay for charging my car on trips, which is actually typically inconvenient since many chargers are out of the way. They say you get the first 400kwh free, which is roughly 1000miles, but I can beat that easily in one summer. I expect to keep my car around for a long time now since I'm grandfathered into free supercharging. They should have limited this to the Model 3 owners.
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ultimately it depends on you, electric cars won't suit everyone but eventually we'll get to the point where it might or a better technology comes out where it does, we just aren't there yet. but if you want stations in better places you need to demand it from your state. but i think the big change will be when you start seeing restaurants and malls and other places installing them which makes a lot of sense given you're usually there long enough for a full charge.
 
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Wait it's cheaper than gas and you guys are still complaining. It cost me 10c a mile in my current car and that's since gas started dropping. It used to be 20c. This is waaaay cheaper. Also a model s will smoke almost any car on the market in performance. If this were a GPU it be a god damned Titan XP using 1050 power and you guys would complain. Get hard or go home ffs.
 
nutzo said:
Los Angeles to San Francisco is around 383 miles (per google maps)

Using the Supercharger network, the cost to drive that is around $15 (from Tesla's web site)

Taking the same drive in my Camry Hybrid
$2.53/gal (Fountain Valley Costco I'd pass on my way to LA)
45 MPG (Mileage I get if I don't go too much over the speed limit)
That's 8.51 gallons of gas for a total of $21.53

When gas was $1.99 / gallon it would have been slightly cheaper in my Camry.
If I was driving a Prius @ 53 mpg the numbers would be even better.

Not much of a savings, and you don't have to wait 30+ minutes for a partial recharge.
With my Camry Hybrid I could turn around and I might just make it all the way back to Los Angeles on a single tank of gas.


You don't buy a Tesla to save money. Most buyers in this area buy them so show off, or so they can use the car pool lanes with a single driver during rush hour.
Click to expand...

Jesus Christ, I wish I lived in the States. Right now I am paying $4.14 a US gallon.
 
So the super-weathy, who could afford to buy tesla's high-end sports cars brand new, get free fuel for the life of the car, but the rest of us will have to pay (in order to subsidize the super-wealthy getting it for free).
 
sir-gold said:
So the super-weathy, who could afford to buy tesla's high-end sports cars brand new, get free fuel for the life of the car, but the rest of us will have to pay (in order to subsidize the super-wealthy getting it for free).
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The day you stop making minimum wage is the day you will see how foolish this comment is.
 
I'm sure we'll get real sweet deals on power in the future when more than 1% of cars on US roads are electric.
 
sirmonkey1985 said:
i can definitely tell you the prius can not do SF to LA at 53mpg from personal experience, it's usually around 35-40 mpg. just don't run out of gas because it costs you 800 dollars to take it to toyota to have everything re-calibrated and it's a required service otherwise the car stays in limp mode.
Click to expand...

How do you only get 35-40 mpg out of a Prius? I can drive my Camry like I stole it and still get that kind of mileage.

My Camry is rated 40/38 (city/highway), which is over 10 mpg less than a Prius.
The only time I get less than 40 mpg on the highway is when I'm driving 80+ MPH most the way.
There have been times when I was stuck in slow/heavy traffic where the average speed was closer to 40mph where I've managed 50 MPG.

sirmonkey1985 said:
as far as the money savings goes it really depends on where you live and whether those regions have discounts for owning an electric car.. for example here in spokane electricity is dirt cheap and on top of that there's deals with the electricity provider where you save money for owning one on top of tax breaks from the state and so on. also avista(electricity provider) is doing a deal to test the grid and infrastructure where you can get a charging station installed for free and not be charge for using it. so the savings is there in some places.
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And here in Southern California, cost are high and my electric rate is tiered. Even without an electric car to charge we hit the top tier at $.29/kwh
Only way to avoid the expensive rate to charge a car is to install a 2nd meter on it's only night time plan which will cost big $$ to install.
They do have a couple other plans for charging cars that don't require a separate meter, but they double the daytime rate which will cost you even more if you have someone at home during the day (like I do).
 
auntjemima said:
Jesus Christ, I wish I lived in the States. Right now I am paying $4.14 a US gallon.
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Even though that's one of the lower priced station where I live in Southern California, we still have some of the highest gas prices in the country.
I just did a quick price check in Texas and it's less than $2/gallon.
 
sir-gold said:
What does this have to do with minimum wage? Even at $20 an hour I still can't afford a new car, let alone a Tesla
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Then why are you worrying about it? Don't buy a Telsa if you can't afford it. Most Tesla owners charge at their house or at work anyway. The superchargers are for long haul trips, and those that happened to pay $80K+ for a luxury vehicle paid for that privilege of 'free' use. Hell, they are still 'free' for people that buy them after the deadline for 4-5 full charges.

I don't see why you're getting your panties in a wad when free superchargers are basically part of the package deal.


And even at $40k a year you could afford a new car if you made good money decisions (though buying a brand new car probably isn't one of them) unless you have multiple children. At which point you have established you are a poor decision maker by having more kids than you can likely afford.
 
Grahamkracka said:
Then why are you worrying about it? Don't buy a Telsa if you can't afford it. Most Tesla owners charge at their house or at work anyway. The superchargers are for long haul trips, and those that happened to pay $80K+ for a luxury vehicle paid for that privilege of 'free' use. Hell, they are still 'free' for people that buy them after the deadline for 4-5 full charges.

I don't see why you're getting your panties in a wad when free superchargers are basically part of the package deal.


And even at $40k a year you could afford a new car if you made good money decisions (though buying a brand new car probably isn't one of them) unless you have multiple children. At which point you have established you are a poor decision maker by having more kids than you can likely afford.
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If it was part of the package, then it should be limited to only the superchargers that currently exist. But they will also get access to a bunch of new superchargers that they didn't pay anything for.

If Tesla keeps expanding the super charger network, and they become the standard for quick-charging electric cars, then people who didn't even buy a Tesla will be subsidizing free charging for early Tesla owners.

Why should we be paying extra for someone else to get something perpetually free, just because they were first? (we do this far too much in every other aspect of life as it is)
 
sir-gold said:
What does this have to do with minimum wage? Even at $20 an hour I still can't afford a new car, let alone a Tesla
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A new car... bottom of the bbl is maybe 14k -- anyone making $20/hr that doesn't have a messed up finances can afford that easily. I make $21/hr and I just bought a 2017 Volt.

The thing few people realize before they start complaining about people having nice things... your past life choices dictate what you can and cant afford. There are people who make $50/hr who are broke as shit and still living paycheck to paycheck. No matter what your income level, smart choices lead to smart rewards. Debt it seen as something casual these days when it's really not... work and save and you can have nice things.

The one thing people who haven't really expereienced electrics yet don't realize is how damn nice it is never having to go to the gas station. Even with me driving 1500-2000 miles a month, I only actually gas up my car once ever 4 or 5 weeks. Most people don't think about it, but it's so nice I'm happy to pay a premium for that sort of luxury .
 
sir-gold said:
Why should we be paying extra for someone else to get something perpetually free, just because they were first? (we do this far too much in every other aspect of life as it is)
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The early adopters for Tesla helped lay the groundwork for desirability and "cool" that makes them the iphone of the car world. Despite their problems getting off the ground everyone still thinks they are cool and awesome (me included) Early adopters in many other industries are rewarded with perks down the road. Risk vs reward, very prevalent in the stock/investment world.

The tax credits given to electric vehicle purchase and the cost for tesla to provide supercharging for early adopters are two completely different things. There are so many things that are incentivizied (sp?) these days. We as a country want to nudge electric adoption along and this is how it's done. No different than any other emerging industry.

Personally I hate going to the store and seeing people buying junk food with their EBT (welfare) card and then getting into a much nicer car than mine. Our paying taxes allows them to shuffle their money around and afford things they don't need... but if I start complaining about that I'm an asshole racist.
 
nutzo said:
How do you only get 35-40 mpg out of a Prius? I can drive my Camry like I stole it and still get that kind of mileage.

My Camry is rated 40/38 (city/highway), which is over 10 mpg less than a Prius.
The only time I get less than 40 mpg on the highway is when I'm driving 80+ MPH most the way.
There have been times when I was stuck in slow/heavy traffic where the average speed was closer to 40mph where I've managed 50 MPG.



And here in Southern California, cost are high and my electric rate is tiered. Even without an electric car to charge we hit the top tier at $.29/kwh
Only way to avoid the expensive rate to charge a car is to install a 2nd meter on it's only night time plan which will cost big $$ to install.
They do have a couple other plans for charging cars that don't require a separate meter, but they double the daytime rate which will cost you even more if you have someone at home during the day (like I do).
Click to expand...

yeah where the prius falls on it's face is long stretches of highway where you aren't having to brake as often you just sit there and watch the mileage plummet.. in the city or heavy traffic the prius is awesome though.. but yeah i moved out of northern california before everything hit the fan about 8 years ago so i'd have to ask my parents if they have a tiered system there as well but i know when my mother bought her leaf they got some kind of deal on their electricity bill so the bill only went up like 10 dollars a month after getting it. if gas wasn't so cheap here i'd probably lease a leaf or wait for the model 3 to come out and lease that for a couple years.

but god damn 29 cents a kwh.. i'll stick with my 3 cents per for the first 650 and 6 cents per for 651-1500kwh. but then again gas is only $2.59/gal anyways.. where we get screwed is natural gas which is way higher than most places.

sir-gold said:
What does this have to do with minimum wage? Even at $20 an hour I still can't afford a new car, let alone a Tesla
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you do know that most states have deals setup when buying electric cars where you get money back right? either way leasing is the best option for electric cars so you can get the next best model after 2-3 years.

sir-gold said:
If it was part of the package, then it should be limited to only the superchargers that currently exist. But they will also get access to a bunch of new superchargers that they didn't pay anything for.

If Tesla keeps expanding the super charger network, and they become the standard for quick-charging electric cars, then people who didn't even buy a Tesla will be subsidizing free charging for early Tesla owners.

Why should we be paying extra for someone else to get something perpetually free, just because they were first? (we do this far too much in every other aspect of life as it is)
Click to expand...


lol yes lets make the early adopters that had to deal with order wait times and software bugs before everyone else suffer even more.. early adopters are always the ones that get screwed in everything so for once they actually benefit from it so i'm fine with that. it's called paying back to the customers/people that trusted your company and product to risk being the first ones to use it. for all they knew tesla could of completely failed and collapsed within the year and they would of been stuck with a 50k+ dollar paper weight of a car, but they didn't.
 
mullet said:
Yeah but like, you're saving the planet dude, like it makes you feel like better and stuff.
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Which is a big lie also. The electricity is largely produced by fossil fuels (coal, oil) or power that's heavily dependant on fossil fuel like nuclear power. Although nuclear power will be efficient in the long run once the huge investment of building it is turned over.
 
nutzo said:
Los Angeles to San Francisco is around 383 miles (per google maps)

Using the Supercharger network, the cost to drive that is around $15 (from Tesla's web site)

Taking the same drive in my Camry Hybrid
$2.53/gal (Fountain Valley Costco I'd pass on my way to LA)
45 MPG (Mileage I get if I don't go too much over the speed limit)
That's 8.51 gallons of gas for a total of $21.53

When gas was $1.99 / gallon it would have been slightly cheaper in my Camry.
If I was driving a Prius @ 53 mpg the numbers would be even better.

Not much of a savings, and you don't have to wait 30+ minutes for a partial recharge.
With my Camry Hybrid I could turn around and I might just make it all the way back to Los Angeles on a single tank of gas.


You don't buy a Tesla to save money. Most buyers in this area buy them so show off, or so they can use the car pool lanes with a single driver during rush hour.
Click to expand...

Damn, if I convert the price where I live it's $4.8/gal. It's like we're subsidizing your cheap gas.
 
B00nie said:
Which is a big lie also. The electricity is largely produced by fossil fuels (coal, oil) or power that's heavily dependant on fossil fuel like nuclear power. Although nuclear power will be efficient in the long run once the huge investment of building it is turned over.
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You could argue all day about the exact numbers on how much it saves. But it does make a difference, even if it hurts you to admit it.
I hate this attitude of "Hey let's do nothing instead, because that's not perfect either!"
 
M76 said:
You could argue all day about the exact numbers on how much it saves. But it does make a difference, even if it hurts you to admit it.
I hate this attitude of "Hey let's do nothing instead, because that's not perfect either!"
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Once you factor in the huge ecological impact of manufacturing the batteries in China (and replacing them relatively frequently) it's questionable if electric cars actually save anything but the owners imago.
 
Sometimes I wonder if HardOCP was mistaken for a plumbing site and ended up getting populated by anti-technology old geezers lol.

So looking at the $120 for the NY to Cali trip, my car would probably cost me around $350 in gas. Not bad.

I'm not sure if an American company such as Tesla can compete with China in the long run though, they already produce 400k affordable EVs in their market by around 20 Tesla-like startups, the biggest one already double the size of Tesla currently, only behind on battery chemistry at this point.

There's good odds they'll be the ones selling the cars some day if we continue to trail them in future planning due to some misguided addiction to the 1950s.
 
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sirmonkey1985 said:
but god damn 29 cents a kwh.. i'll stick with my 3 cents per for the first 650 and 6 cents per for 651-1500kwh. but then again gas is only $2.59/gal anyways.. where we get screwed is natural gas which is way higher than most places.
Click to expand...

This is from my November bill:

16 cents for the 1st 300kwh
23 cents for the next 291kwh
29 cents for anything over that

And you wonder why I laugh when people who live near me talk about the cost savings of an electrical car?

FYI: due to the high costs I've tried to make the house as energy efficient as possible. But since I have a Wife/kids at home all day there is only so much I can do.
The November bill was 591kwh, which came out to $115.
Based on your pricing it would have only been $18 :eek:

What state do you live in... I might need to move.
 
Wierdo said:
So looking at the $120 for the NY to Cali trip, my car would probably cost me around $350 in gas. Not bad.
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How much is your time worth? In order to maintain a higher average speed, you'll need to charge about 30 minutes for every 2 hours of driving. The gas savings will probably end up being eaten by hotel bills.
 
SLee said:
How much is your time worth? In order to maintain a higher average speed, you'll need to charge about 30 minutes for every 2 hours of driving. The gas savings will probably end up being eaten by hotel bills.
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My health is worth more, they say health is wealth after all. I stop every ~3 hours anyway as recommended by doctors so this is a non-issue.

I always stretch and grab a bite or coffee on the way to stay fresh. So for me personally stopping at such intervals is quite sensible and even ideal.
 
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B00nie said:
Once you factor in the huge ecological impact of manufacturing the batteries in China (and replacing them relatively frequently) it's questionable if electric cars actually save anything but the owners imago.
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Except for you being full of crap - Tesla/Panasonic are not making those EV batteries in China - they are made in Japan with pretty small environmental impact, which will be even lower once production moves to Gigafactory1 in USA. There is also no indication that Tesla would need to replace those batteries "very often" - I have seen Model S with 150k miles and its battery still hold 93-94% of original charge. Recyclying EV batteries is also not all that hard (and profitable to do for battery maker)
 
nutzo said:
This is from my November bill:

16 cents for the 1st 300kwh
23 cents for the next 291kwh
29 cents for anything over that

And you wonder why I laugh when people who live near me talk about the cost savings of an electrical car?

FYI: due to the high costs I've tried to make the house as energy efficient as possible. But since I have a Wife/kids at home all day there is only so much I can do.
The November bill was 591kwh, which came out to $115.
Based on your pricing it would have only been $18 :eek:

What state do you live in... I might need to move.
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i live in eastern washington so all our power is hydro/waste incinerators. but yeah i know what you mean, my bill is around 145 a month this winter 60 electric 75 gas from the furnace which will be my project this summer replacing the crappy 1950's insulation. wasn't expecting it to be this bad when i bought the house 6 months ago.
 
Rebel44 said:
Except for you being full of crap - Tesla/Panasonic are not making those EV batteries in China - they are made in Japan with pretty small environmental impact, which will be even lower once production moves to Gigafactory1 in USA. There is also no indication that Tesla would need to replace those batteries "very often" - I have seen Model S with 150k miles and its battery still hold 93-94% of original charge. Recyclying EV batteries is also not all that hard (and profitable to do for battery maker)
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Except that China has the majority of Lithium deposits so the raw material is almost certainly mined there and then shipped to Japan. Oh, and the trucks and ships used don't work with electricity. Same thing when the production is switched to the US - all the raw material is shipped across the globe to the factory lol. The ships apparently work with holy spirit so no oil is burned in the process.

As far as recycling goes, the vast majority of corporate recycling is done through the cheapest bidder. This means that the material is shipped (you guessed it), back to China where it's being manually and hazardously treated in chop-shops. The recycling business counts for much of the toxic pollution found in China.

The batteries are going to degrade at a much faster pace in cold climates. At -20c the batteries have only 50% of their original storage capacity and even more is wasted on cabin heating.
 
B00nie said:
Except that China has the majority of Lithium deposits so the raw material is almost certainly mined there and then shipped to Japan. Oh, and the trucks and ships used don't work with electricity. Same thing when the production is switched to the US - all the raw material is shipped across the globe to the factory lol. The ships apparently work with holy spirit so no oil is burned in the process.

As far as recycling goes, the vast majority of corporate recycling is done through the cheapest bidder. This means that the material is shipped (you guessed it), back to China where it's being manually and hazardously treated in chop-shops. The recycling business counts for much of the toxic pollution found in China.

The batteries are going to degrade at a much faster pace in cold climates. At -20c the batteries have only 50% of their original storage capacity and even more is wasted on cabin heating.
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Wrong (again) - https://www.statista.com/statistics/268790/countries-with-the-largest-lithium-reserves-worldwide/

Reserves in metric tons
Chile 7,500,000
China 3,200,000
Argentina 2,000,000
Australia 1,500,000

As for shipping, same is true about 99% of everything you can buy.

Only low value recycling is moved to Chin/Africa - Tesla is setting up recycling facility for its batteries as a part of Gigafactory - because by recycling batteries at the same location where they make batteries, they will lower their own cost (no need to ship things around).

And wrong again - you are mixing together capacity when battery is cold (for which Tesla and other EV makers provide heating elements, so that battery can be kept at reasonable temperature and so can be charged to its normal capacity) and battery capacity degradation. Car I mentioned in my example spends most of the year in Norway and Sweden - not exactly warm places....
 
Rebel44 said:
Wrong (again) - https://www.statista.com/statistics/268790/countries-with-the-largest-lithium-reserves-worldwide/

Reserves in metric tons
Chile 7,500,000
China 3,200,000
Argentina 2,000,000
Australia 1,500,000

As for shipping, same is true about 99% of everything you can buy.

Only low value recycling is moved to Chin/Africa - Tesla is setting up recycling facility for its batteries as a part of Gigafactory - because by recycling batteries at the same location where they make batteries, they will lower their own cost (no need to ship things around).

And wrong again - you are mixing together capacity when battery is cold (for which Tesla and other EV makers provide heating elements, so that battery can be kept at reasonable temperature and so can be charged to its normal capacity) and battery capacity degradation. Car I mentioned in my example spends most of the year in Norway and Sweden - not exactly warm places....
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Well boo-hoo ok China is the second largest - but the cheapest. I highly doubt Tesla is going to use a gram of their own recycling in the new products. Recycling is an energy intensive and expensive process that's practically never feasible in western countries due to high labour cost and environmental rules which again raise cost.

Tesla may promise the moon from the sky now - but once the share holders meet the accountants and cold figures are displayed on how much cheaper it is to recycle in China, the local recycling gets outsourced without publicity. Mark my words.

You do know that much of the 'legal' recycling companies in the western world have been caught shipping the waste directly to China despite advertising of local and environmentally concious processing? Sure, it doesn't pollute the local nature when it's shipped to China lol.

Do you know what happens to tree huggers in the real corporate world? They have nothing to hug because the tree is chopped up, processed and printed as dollar bills.

So you think heating elements do not eat battery power? Heat or no heat, your battery gets degraded at multiple speed when it's freezing. Electric cars are also just a toy for the rich. If you have to actually work for a living you can't afford to wait for hours for your batteries to load in the middle of your work trip.
 
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B00nie said:
Well boo-hoo ok China is the second largest - but the cheapest. I highly doubt Tesla is going to use a gram of their own recycling in the new products. Recycling is an energy intensive and expensive process that's practically never feasible in western countries due to high labour cost and environmental rules which again raise cost.

Tesla may promise the moon from the sky now - but once the share holders meet the accountants and cold figures are displayed on how much cheaper it is to recycle in China, the local recycling gets outsourced without publicity. Mark my words.

You do know that much of the 'legal' recycling companies in the western world have been caught shipping the waste directly to China despite advertising of local and environmentally concious processing? Sure, it doesn't pollute the local nature when it's shipped to China lol.

Do you know what happens to tree huggers in the real corporate world? They have nothing to hug because the tree is chopped up, processed and printed as dollar bills.

So you think heating elements do not eat battery power? Heat or no heat, your battery gets degraded at multiple speed when it's freezing. Electric cars are also just a toy for the rich. If you have to actually work for a living you can't afford to wait for hours for your batteries to load in the middle of your work trip.
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1. China isnt the cheapest - price for buyers is the same (global market etc.)

2. Musk and his allies have 50+% (IIRC Musk alone has over 30%) of shares, so they can do whatever they like + recycling can be done in accordance with western environmental standards without big extra cost, if you have dedicated highly automated facility for specific materials (which they do since they know exactly what they put into those batteries) - they also save by not shipping things around and avoiding multiple middleman (who are involved if you export things for recycling and processing raw materials only to buy processed materials later).

3. Sure heating elements consume energy, but that has nothing to do with capacity degradation and extra power consumption is usually acceptable for owner in order to protect battery from effects of cold.
 
Rebel44 said:
1. China isnt the cheapest - price for buyers is the same (global market etc.)

2. Musk and his allies have 50+% (IIRC Musk alone has over 30%) of shares, so they can do whatever they like + recycling can be done in accordance with western environmental standards without big extra cost, if you have dedicated highly automated facility for specific materials (which they do since they know exactly what they put into those batteries) - they also save by not shipping things around and avoiding multiple middleman (who are involved if you export things for recycling and processing raw materials only to buy processed materials later).

3. Sure heating elements consume energy, but that has nothing to do with capacity degradation and extra power consumption is usually acceptable for owner in order to protect battery from effects of cold.
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Do you really think that they're going to take a hit in profitability to save the environment? I don't. It's a pipe dream. Sooner or later costs are going to be cut. If they manage to cut the combustion engine dominance all bets are off. Prices will rise and the high demand for electricity is going to make every day living much more expensive (while at the same time coal is burned more and more to run those cars).

The 'hit' is not acceptable especially when you consider that you're going to be range limited to begin with. Instead of having to stop for refuel and a coffee for 10 minutes you have to spend potentially 3-4 hours IF you're lucky enough to find a gas station that allows you to use their 16 amp plug lol. Super stations are about as rare as hydrogen refill stations as we speak.

In the worst case you're stranded in the middle of nowhere at -30c and having to wait for a diesel flatbed to come and pick your car up.
 
Wierdo said:
Sometimes I wonder if HardOCP was mistaken for a plumbing site and ended up getting populated by anti-technology old geezers lol.

So looking at the $120 for the NY to Cali trip, my car would probably cost me around $350 in gas. Not bad.

I'm not sure if an American company such as Tesla can compete with China in the long run though, they already produce 400k affordable EVs in their market by around 20 Tesla-like startups, the biggest one already double the size of Tesla currently, only behind on battery chemistry at this point.

There's good odds they'll be the ones selling the cars some day if we continue to trail them in future planning due to some misguided addiction to the 1950s.
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I think we should subsidize the pc gaming industry with tax dollars. Its a cultural benefit!

I swear, some of my fellow nerds cannot let go of their tech-lust to deal with reality.

Also, I doubt those Chinese EV's are up to the oh so wonderful US safety standards.
 
nutzo said:
This is from my November bill:

16 cents for the 1st 300kwh
23 cents for the next 291kwh
29 cents for anything over that

And you wonder why I laugh when people who live near me talk about the cost savings of an electrical car?

FYI: due to the high costs I've tried to make the house as energy efficient as possible. But since I have a Wife/kids at home all day there is only so much I can do.
The November bill was 591kwh, which came out to $115.
Based on your pricing it would have only been $18 :eek:

What state do you live in... I might need to move.
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Allow me to show off :cool:

Switched last summer to a new provider and prices have been just swell

tADwicZ.jpg
 
Ranulfo said:
I think we should subsidize the pc gaming industry with tax dollars. Its a cultural benefit!

I swear, some of my fellow nerds cannot let go of their tech-lust to deal with reality.

Also, I doubt those Chinese EV's are up to the oh so wonderful US safety standards.
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While electric vehicles are not practical for my families usage, I absolutely look forward to the day of not ever having to do an oil change or timing belt change again!
 
Ranulfo said:
I doubt those Chinese EV's are up to the oh so wonderful US safety standards.
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That's a shade of 70s deja vu right there, Japanese autos considered a joke the few years before they almost ran Detroit out of business, with heavy import tariffs rushed in to save them from their complacency, how embarrassing.

We can write the Chinese EV makers off for skimping on an airbag today, but without motivation and initiative internally it may only be a matter of time before history repeats itself.

http://wardsauto.com/news-analysis/foreign-invasion-imports-transplants-change-auto-industry-forever
 
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