Recommendations needed: 2016 Cheap entry into surround sound?

Zarathustra[H]

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Hey all,

I've been toying with the idea of putting in a 5.1 receiver in my livingroom for oh - probably 15 years now, and never gotten around to it.

I'm not a huge surround sound enthusiast, but I know I want to get a proper receiver and speakers, not some desktop speaker 5.1 kit.

It can't be pricy though.

This speaker kit on Monoprice seems like it might do the trick for a surprisingly low price.

I've been googling around for budget priced receivers that might work well with them.

I'm thinking maybe the Sony STR-DH550 or maybe the The Onkyo TX-SR353 could do the trick, but I know very little about speaker and receiver compatibility. I don't need to wake the dead, just get decent quality surround sound

Also, what on earth is 5.2 sound? Dual subwoofers?

Both of these are about as much as I want to spend (~$150 for speakers, ~250 for receiver)

Are there any other better options in this price range I should be looking at?

Much obliged,
Matt
 
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Hey man! Now, it's my turn to give some advice. ;)

I'd avoid Onkyo. Their build quality ain't what it used to be. I'm a fan of Pioneer Elite and Yamaha. You can find some pretty sweet refurbs in your price range at Accessories4Less. These guys are really good with prices and customer service.

http://www.accessories4less.com/mak.../receivers-amps/home-theater-receivers/1.html

This Dayton 5.1 setup is worth a look: https://www.parts-express.com/51-home-theater-bundle-8-powered-subwoofer--300-692


That's a good link on the receivers, thank you. What are some things to look for in these? I'm a complete noob when it comes to this stuff.

I don't think I even need HDMI passthrough. I can just plug the HDMI straight in to the TV and run an optical cable from the TV to the receiver.

Are those automatic sound tuning features important or just a gimmick?

Also, what do you like about those Dayton's vs the Monoprice ones I found? Spec wise the Monoprice seem both cheaper and better, but as we all know there's more to sound than just specs.
 
Question: Why would I want my receiver to be able to connect to my network? What benefits does this add?
 
On the speaker system, I suggested the Dayton because they have a good reputation as solid bang-for-buck products. I've never listened to Monoprice speakers, so my input is a bit limited.

Network capabilities are useful if you listen to internet radio, stream from your PC or mobile devices, etc. For home theater, I'm not aware of any benefits. Maybe others can enlighten us?

I've had mixed results with MCACC and Audyssey. Many others find them very useful, however. I think more complex home theater systems and room setups may benefit more than basic systems.
 
Fyi with hdmi pass through you can pass more digital info than with an optical cable. So dolby digital bitstream magic HD (7+ un compressed channels) vs 5.1 or DTS PCM compressed streams. Also if you get the right receiver you can run video with it powered down to the tv. Maybe another plus is if your tv has CEC you can do the audio volume with a single remote.

The one benefit I can find with network connectivity is maybe the ability to do firmware updates over the wire. All the interfaces for media I have messed with are pretty gimmicky.
 
Question: Why would I want my receiver to be able to connect to my network? What benefits does this add?

I can send my music straight to my Onkyo from my computer.
Whether or not that would be beneficial to you.
Also as rhansen5_99 stated, firmware updates.

Not sure what other network-related capability might be available though.
 
You wouldn't want to plug your hdmi into your tv and optical back to the receiver. Cable Box HDMI --> Receiver --> HDMI to TV. You will run everything into the receiver and one cable to the TV and switch between the sources with the receivers remote. If you are using a smart tv instead of a HTPC for youtube or Netflix then your tv should pass the audio back to the receiver via HDMI ARC(Audio Return Channel).

The only time I've used the network for my receiver is for firmware updates. I have my HTPC hooked up to my receiver via HDMI so I can access anything on my network and just play it through the HTPC.
 
Thanks for the suggestions all.

Is it worth getting a 7 channel receiver over a 5 channel one? If I only have space for 5 satellites to begin with, can a typical 7 channel receiver be used as a 5 channel receiver, leaving options for future upgrades by adding two speakers?
 
Thanks for the suggestions all.

Is it worth getting a 7 channel receiver over a 5 channel one? If I only have space for 5 satellites to begin with, can a typical 7 channel receiver be used as a 5 channel receiver, leaving options for future upgrades by adding two speakers?

They can, you just have to configure the receiver correctly which is pretty easy with most of them.
 
Question: Why would I want my receiver to be able to connect to my network? What benefits does this add?

Streaming straight from the receiver. Mine has Pandora, Tidal, TuneIn, Spotify, AirPlay, plus a couple of others, and also streams from my phone, USB or a music server. All of this can be controlled by a (rather nice) smartphone app without having to turn on a display, PC, etc. I thought I'd never use it, but once I set it up it allows a degree of freedom that's hard to replicate.

~Nicodemus
 
What is the opinion regard 5.1 kits vs separates in here?

What I neglected to originally mention was that my house came with some built in older KLH 980 speakers in the rear satellite locations. I've been told they function well, but haven't been used in a very long time.

IMG_20170112_201925.jpg

Would I be better off just using these speakers that are already installed (less trouble for me) and picking up some other speakers piecemeal? Maybe for the front two speakers I could use the well regarded (and surprisingly dirt cheap) Dayton Audio B652's? What - then - would I get for a center channel and sub? I've heard really good things about the Monorpice 12" sub... Center channel speakers I know nothing about.

Does it matter at all that the rear satellites aren't matched to the front left and rights, which in their turn won't be matched to the center channel? With all of them being of differing difficulty to drive, etc. how big of a deal is it to tune the system so that the volume winds up even throughout?

Heck, if I were to go with the B652's for the front left and right, I'd need Speaker stands to get them up to the right height. Since speaker stands are so expensive, maybe it would just be a better idea to buy a pair of Dayton Audio T652 tower speakers and stand them on the floor. At 30" tall, they are about the right height, and if I'm going to spend the money, I'd rather put it into speakers than stands...
 
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From what I've seen the kits don't typically save much money. I would get 2 towers and a center channel and use the rears that are already there, you can change them later to see if they're adequate. Subwoofers are nice, but you can always add those later too.
 
My recommendation is get the 7 channel receiver

Those speaker kits are fine but they will cost more in the long run. How far away you sit will be big plus this smaller speakers don't produce bass very well so you'll need a sub.

One thing they allow you to do is up your L/R later and still have speakers for your other channels. Big towers with good sensitivity can give you much better resolution and great mid bass. I upgraded to Klipsch RP280's and when my sub was out of commission due to a faulty voice coil (parts express was a pleasure to work with btw) I still had great bass presence.
 
Thanks everyone,

So here is my preliminary plan:

Speakers:
  • Front LR: Dayton Audio T652 tower speakers. A steal at $98 for the pair. I was originally going to go with the cheaper B652 or maybe B652-AIR but when I added the cost of the stands needed to lift them into the equation, I got very close to floor speaker prices, and I'd rather spend money on speakers than stands. They are only 30" tall though, so I may still need a few cinderblocks or something to raise them up so the tweeters are at the right height. Maybe I can put a spray-on rubber sealant coating on the cinderblocks to make them look nicer, not scratch anything, and not get crap everywhere. I appreciate some suggestions of good things to use to raise the speakers without significant cost.
  • Center Channel: Dayton Audio C452. Another steal at $25
  • Rear LR: KLH 980's that came with the house. Cheaper, easier, no reinstallation needed.
  • Subwoofer: Monoprice 9723 12" 150W active sub. It reviews better than the Dayton audio Sub-1200, and costs about the same
I have no idea where to set the crossover for the sub for a system like this, so I'll be asking for help here :p



As far as the receiver goes, I'm less sure. I went to the site recommended by Commander Shepard and sorted by channel. Looking through the receivers I was quickly impressed by the Denon models. Picking which one - however - is difficult.


At first I was trying to be budget conscious, and liked the Denon AVR-S720W at $299, but then I saw all the higher end models at $329, and thought, what's an extra $30 for something I am going to be using for many years? So I started comparing the Denon AVR-S910W and Denon AVR-X1200W.

They seem very similar. I get the impression that the S910W is newer mid-level, and the X1200W is older higher end, but I am not sure.

The S910W has more inputs (which I don't think I need, this is going to sit in the living room under my TV, and probably only use two HDMI inputs, and nothing else) as well as higher output (95W vs 80W), but the X1200W seems to have a higher end auto speaker calibration, which may be useful in a setup like I am planning with an unholy mix and match of speakers.

Which would you guys choose? I don't know why, but something immediately drew me to the Denon's. Are these a wise choice? Are there others I would be looking at at this price before I pull the trigger?

Again, appreciate all the suggestions thus far.
 
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Denon is a good choice, the power difference between the two is very marginal. Personally I'd go with the X1200 for the better room calibration. The additional "15watts" in stereo wont be a noticeable increase.

I don't know much about those speakers but Dayton makes great drivers for the price. I'm sure you will be happy.
 
I'd avoid Onkyo. Their build quality ain't what it used to be. I'm a fan of Pioneer Elite and Yamaha.

FYI, while I agree about Onkyo- you should know that Onkyo owns Pioneer now (O & P Corporation) Pioneer sold their AVR and Elite line to Onkyo in 2014. That being said I upgraded over the holidays to a Pioneer VSX-1131- an 7.2 channel receiver w/ Dolby Atmos / DTS-X and a first-gen AVR under the new O&P ownership. So far very happy.

Zara, If you can save up a few more beans, I'd wait til you could afford an Atmos AVR. The tech is pretty damn impressive, and I've had home theatre rigs for over 20 years (Dolby ProLogic and LaserDiscs in 1991)
 
Z - Denon's got a big following and their receivers garner a lot of praise. Trimlock nailed it with his preference for the 1200. You'll get more from its speaker calibration than the extra wattage of the 910. Your speaker choices are sound (couldn't resist :p). I like Dayton for budget audio. You scored some really good prices. Good call on sticking with those KLH speakers for surrounds, too.

FYI, while I agree about Onkyo- you should know that Onkyo owns Pioneer now (O & P Corporation) Pioneer sold their AVR and Elite line to Onkyo in 2014. That being said I upgraded over the holidays to a Pioneer VSX-1131- an 7.2 channel receiver w/ Dolby Atmos / DTS-X and a first-gen AVR under the new O&P ownership. So far very happy.
Didn't know about the O & P merger. My last Pioneer Elite AVR was from 2011.

EDIT: I just noticed this is my 1,000th post :D:cigar:
 
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I have no idea where to set the crossover for the sub for a system like this, so I'll be asking for help here :p

Connect the sub to the receiver with an rca cable and set the sub crossover on the back of the sub to the maximum, you can control the crossover on your receiver.

Your receiver might have an auto-setup that comes with a microphone that will set the ideal crossover frequency for you, along with all the other settings.
 
Connect the sub to the receiver with an rca cable and set the sub crossover to the maximum, you can set it with your receiver. Your receiver might have an auto-setup that comes with a microphone that will set the ideal crossover frequency for you, along with all the other settings.

Ahh, excellent. I didn't realize this. I expected to have to set it on the sub itself.

Do the refurbished units usually come with the microphone or can they be missing? If they are missing, can they be replaced easily?
 
Ahh, excellent. I didn't realize this. I expected to have to set it on the sub itself.

Do the refurbished units usually come with the microphone or can they be missing? If they are missing, can they be replaced easily?
I just looked up the 1200 on A4L and saw this:



You're covered!
 
Ahh, excellent. I didn't realize this. I expected to have to set it on the sub itself.

Do the refurbished units usually come with the microphone or can they be missing? If they are missing, can they be replaced easily?
They are normally missing, yes you can find them from PE and other places. Just ask if the microphone works well with your receiver and I'm sure a PE service member will help.

Also most subs cross at 80hz if you didn't want to fuss. Is this the sub you want?
https://www.monoprice.com/mobile/product/details/9723?gclid=CKC8vNWQwNECFU6VfgodNKsB4A

With those towers you wouldn't need to cross higher. Keep the sub close to you for better effect. Or let Audussey tell you.
 
They are normally missing, yes you can find them from PE and other places. Just ask if the microphone works well with your receiver and I'm sure a PE service member will help.

Also most subs cross at 80hz if you didn't want to fuss. Is this the sub you want?
https://www.monoprice.com/mobile/product/details/9723?gclid=CKC8vNWQwNECFU6VfgodNKsB4A

With those towers you wouldn't need to cross higher. Keep the sub close to you for better effect. Or let Audussey tell you.

Yep, that's the one, thanks!

Connect the sub to the receiver with an rca cable and set the sub crossover on the back of the sub to the maximum, you can control the crossover on your receiver.

Your receiver might have an auto-setup that comes with a microphone that will set the ideal crossover frequency for you, along with all the other settings.

Hmm. The receiver has two mono RCA pre-amp outputs (for connecting multiple subs if needed). The sub - on the other hand - has two stereo RCA inputs (presumably it sums the two channels for its own use, and passes the stereo signals through to the outputs, if you use it that way).

What would be the best way to connect the sub to the receiver?

Connect the two mono outputs to the one sub as if they were stereo?

Connect just one of them to either the left or right input on the sub?

Use a splitter and connect one to both the left and the right?

Much appreciated,
Matt
 
Also, hwo woudl you guys go about raising the speakers a little bit. To get the tweeters up to ear height when sitting on the couch, I probably need about an added foot of height.

Could I stand them on top of something like this, or would the cavity below create resonance problems?





I know that people often recommend cinder blocks, but they are ugly, they crumble and leave a mess, they scratch things (like the speakers, and/or my hardwood floors) etc. etc. I was considering getting cinder blocks and coating them with one of those spray-on rubberizing paints, but that's a pain in the butt.

(I apologize for the noob questions, but while I have plenty of headphone experience, I've actually never owned real speakers, just desktop computer speakers)
 
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Doubt it, resonance comes from lack of bracing in the tower. I'd be more worried about how much weight they can hold. Those towers will weigh a few lbs.

If they do work out and cause awkward effects in your sound then try putting a blanket in them.

Also not sure about your connection questions with your sub, I'd say connect just one RCA to one LFE out and see how it sounds. For testing download some bass test mp3's so you can dial in your own tastes.
 
Doubt it, resonance comes from lack of bracing in the tower. I'd be more worried about how much weight they can hold. Those towers will weigh a few lbs.

If they do work out and cause awkward effects in your sound then try putting a blanket in them.

Also not sure about your connection questions with your sub, I'd say connect just one RCA to one LFE out and see how it sounds. For testing download some bass test mp3's so you can dial in your own tastes.

Apparently they use something called Z-board which is supposedly pretty strong.

They rate them as being able to support 50 lb and use this image. (Apparently they know.lots of people who way less than 50lb)


standhold._V391348530_.jpg

Dayton audio lists the shipping weight as 30 lb. Unclear if this is each or for the pair, but either way it's under the 50lb those boxes are rated at.
 
Apparently they use something called Z-board which is supposedly pretty strong.

They rate them as being able to support 50 lb and use this image. (Apparently they know.lots of people who way less than 50lb)


View attachment 14648

Dayton audio lists the shipping weight as 30 lb. Unclear if this is each or for the pair, but either way it's under the 50lb those boxes are rated at.
I'll funny picture, kind of misleading though! Lol

If they don't work out then just stack some 2x4's or build a stand using some dowels.
 
Also not sure about your connection questions with your sub, I'd say connect just one RCA to one LFE out and see how it sounds. For testing download some bass test mp3's so you can dial in your own tastes.

Thanks for your replies.

Turns out they actually describe what to do on the product listing page:

Monoprice said:
Additionally, the subwoofer has a set of right/left Line Level inputs. If using a standard stereo system, without a special subwoofer output, you can connect these to the left and right line level outputs on the amp. The subwoofer will then combine the signals to process the mono bass signal it needs to drive the speaker. If you are using an amplifier with a single mono subwoofer line level output, simply use an RCA "Y" cable to split the output and send it to the two line level inputs on the subwoofer. The Line Level outputs can be used to daisy chain additional subwoofers to provide even more room-filling bass!
 
Question...

If I set up 5.1 in my room with my TV, and use the left over "surround back" chanels for a Zone 2 for music in a different room....

How can I adjust the volume in that other room? Do I need to walk into the first room, grab the remote, and walk back?

Or is there something I'm missing?
 
I'm not sure if it has separate volume levels. Sorry I can't help you there.
 
So, I deviated from plan a little, due to a craigslist deal I couldn't pass up on.

I am the happy new owner of three Infinity speakers.

2x Primus 360's
1x Beta C250 center channel

Click for larger:





Wow, panorama's can be trippy!

I wish my receiver were here already!

That being said, the seller used a Denon AVR-1905 which is rated at 80w per channel at 8ohm, and he felt the amp was underpowered for the speakers. I'm wondering if I should rush and cancel my AVR-X1200W, as it hsa the exact same rating, and go for the AVR-s910w which is rated at 95w, so I have a little more power...

Anyway, now I'm looking for a sub and a set of decent surround speakers.
 
I haven't looked up the general specs on your speakers and I don't know your room size but I have doubts they will be under powered.

In order to get double the loudness at the same db (spl) rating you need to double the power. 15 theoretical watts over 80 won't give you 1db higher using the same speakers in the same room at the same listening position.
 
These are rated at 93db, haven't seen a sweep on them but that's a decent rating. I doubt you go above 50watts at 8ft listening distance.
 
These are rated at 93db, haven't seen a sweep on them but that's a decent rating. I doubt you go above 50watts at 8ft listening distance.

But is that 93db at its max power of 200w? Does it scale linearly? If so is that ~37db at the max of the receiver of 80w?

And I wonder when it starts clipping? I may not be able to run it all the way up to 80w?

Forgive my likely.many mistakes above, but I am new to this stuff....
 
I haven't looked up the general specs on your speakers and I don't know your room size but I have doubts they will be under powered.

In order to get double the loudness at the same db (spl) rating you need to double the power. 15 theoretical watts over 80 won't give you 1db higher using the same speakers in the same room at the same listening position.


I sketched up this drawing of the room last night. As you can see it is a little odd, with hard reflective stone in some places and gaping holes into other rooms in other places. I'm sure I'll need Audyssey for this one...

(click for bigger):



I know that when you have a larger room you need more output, but what do the calculations look like?
 
But is that 93db at its max power of 200w? Does it scale linearly? If so is that ~37db at the max of the receiver of 80w?

I'm going to be a bit lazy and assume here, in this case it should be 1 watt @ 1 meter in neutral space. How well it scales, no idea, this is usually what a sweep would help with and I doubt the speakers will have issues with power scaling. The db rating depends on how far away you are sitting from the speakers and how much power they are getting.

And I wonder when it starts clipping? I may not be able to run it all the way up to 80w?

The receiver is rated at 80watts per channel in stereo mode, I don't think that's RMS and is most likely max so its a guessing game as to what you will get for RMS (maybe 65??). No I don't think you'd get them up to 80watts, but you probably don't want them to get up to 80 watts either. You might be using 60% of the volume but with 15 more watts that won't change much. I have my set (rated 99db, generously rated at that) at 40-50 for movies and I sit 10 feet from them. I also have the X1200w, had it for a while now and it was ment as a stop gap until I got either a pre-amp or a nicer receiver.

Forgive my likely.many mistakes above, but I am new to this stuff....

The best thing to do is listen to everything first, but in your case you are going into it blind which is fine, you are limiting your purchases so if you do make mistakes the sting won't be that bad. If you are wondering, these new towers should be quite a bit better than your older selection, rated at 88db. I still wouldn't worry with those and this receiver. But I don't know your room or your listening preference.
 
I'm going to be a bit lazy and assume here, in this case it should be 1 watt @ 1 meter in neutral space. How well it scales, no idea, this is usually what a sweep would help with and I doubt the speakers will have issues with power scaling. The db rating depends on how far away you are sitting from the speakers and how much power they are getting.



The receiver is rated at 80watts per channel in stereo mode, I don't think that's RMS and is most likely max so its a guessing game as to what you will get for RMS (maybe 65??). No I don't think you'd get them up to 80watts, but you probably don't want them to get up to 80 watts either. You might be using 60% of the volume but with 15 more watts that won't change much. I have my set (rated 99db, generously rated at that) at 40-50 for movies and I sit 10 feet from them. I also have the X1200w, had it for a while now and it was ment as a stop gap until I got either a pre-amp or a nicer receiver.



The best thing to do is listen to everything first, but in your case you are going into it blind which is fine, you are limiting your purchases so if you do make mistakes the sting won't be that bad. If you are wondering, these new towers should be quite a bit better than your older selection, rated at 88db. I still wouldn't worry with those and this receiver. But I don't know your room or your listening preference.

The room is... complicated.. see post above.
 
I sketched up this drawing of the room last night. As you can see it is a little odd, with hard reflective stone in some places and gaping holes into other rooms in other places. I'm sure I'll need Audyssey for this one...

(click for bigger):



I know that when you have a larger room you need more output, but what do the calculations look like?

That looks similar to my distances.

well for your LCR it shouldn't matter much, they are directional so as long as you have them pointed at the "sweet" spot (your spot) you are going to be fine with the space. Bass on the other hand, being non-directional depends hugely on room size. I can pressurize my room (similar to yours) with a single Dayton um18 and an inuke3000dps, you double my room size or increase the ceilings and you'd need to add another but my mains would still be fine.
 
Granted my mains are more sensitive so I'm unable to make a fair comparison.
 
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