The future does not have to repeat the past. Vega is looking to be very unique - I will just wait to see the actual product before judging.
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Vega countdown has appeared
- Thread starter TaintedSquirrel
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I gotten to the point of not paying much attention to marketing - seems like 90% of it is BS. Just show the goods and I take it from there.
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Or you could just note the article I wrote here on HardOCP before theverge stole my information and built an entire article around my look into the matter.
http://www.hardocp.com/article/2016/05/09/nvidia_founders_edition_cards_yea_or_nay
pendragon1
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ok what aboot the previous paragraph:
"As Bennett now reports, the Founders Edition turns Nvidia's reference line into its own profit driver, tacking on the extra cost as essentially a profit margin for the GPU designer. The reason why anyone should actually want to spend extra is something Nvidia hadn't mentioned in its graphics card launches before this week: craftsmanship. Bennett sounds reasonably satisfied that Nvidia's promise of crafting the best possible GeForce GTX card, with the most reliable components and cooling, has substance underpinning it. Prior reference cards have been, he says, widely accepted as the best versions, so it makes sense for consumers that want extra peace of mind to spend more and obtain Nvidia's own production rather than a variant from Asus, MSI, Zotac, or any of the other board customizers."
I think its more likely that nv designed it, showed to to Falcon(the only oem mentioned), told them "this is what you want" and they went "oh yeah I do like that idea! makes my life easier!"
edit: sorry kyle would have used yours!!
"Some of the big push for this product line seems to have come from Kelt Reeves, owner of Falcon Northwest. He was not shy at all in telling me that he had actively lobbied for this Founders Card product line. His position is this: he wants a video card product that does not change at all in terms of quality or specfication over the life of the GPU. Also Kelt explained that closed face coolers that only exhaust at the I/O shield end of the card are a must for all of his specialty SFF system builds. If you look at it from the perspective of FalconNW or the likes of Maingear, having a product that they can qualify once and sell for years is very important. Also, going back to the craftsmanship aspect, Kelt explained that he very much wanted Founders Edition quality builds in every one of his systems. It simply takes away a lot of concern about quality. Also, I would assume from our conversation that he will be purchasing these cards directly from NVIDIA and not an AIB partner."
the quote is from Kelt(SP?), maingear is an example.
cageymaru
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Tuna has never failed to appease me. The hype is real!
Whoa 90%, huh? Look out everyone, we got an optimist here.
pendragon1
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Ill wait for kyle to get his grubby hands on it. [H]'s opinion on things are my go to!
They didn't have to listen. It didn't matter who requested it, it's who did it. And who did it was nvidia, stop shifting blame for them.
Also without proof for the 1060fe claim you're just creating a story. They could have never planned on a 1060fe
And it's not crying.I own the fucking hardware that i would "vote for" and guess what, it's not the fucking FE. I make enough to afford it but I'm still allowed to bitch. We have threads railing on Vega before It's out but i can't point to a released product and call it the bullshit it is?
It's called, calling out a gouging marketing gimmick.
Excuse me? The general prevailing thought on all AMD cards since th 290 was "probably won't compete".
That doesn't change anything lmao. They requested something nvidia could say no to. And i don't see you defending AMD when AIBs gouge. You seem to directly blame AMD.
I could have sworn there was a 1060 FE. They even released an MSRP for it: 249 / 299 regular / FE. It was the 1050 / Ti that did not have an FE. But at the sub-200 price point who would want an FE?
And, yeah, the Founder's Edition was pure fail; nVidia only has themselves to blame for the customer fleecing that ensued. Third-parties had a field day with it, though. They could honestly point at the FE and say 'but our card price doesn't fuck you as hard!'
As to the subject at hand, I think AMD / RTG needs a new marketing group. It's painful to see in action.
And, yeah, the Founder's Edition was pure fail; nVidia only has themselves to blame for the customer fleecing that ensued. Third-parties had a field day with it, though. They could honestly point at the FE and say 'but our card price doesn't fuck you as hard!'
As to the subject at hand, I think AMD / RTG needs a new marketing group. It's painful to see in action.
nV did do things with the founder's edition that all manufactures have to follow if using that designation. They perceived a value in that, which that value did not appear. Outside of the aluminum shroud their AIB partners were not allowed to make those cards. AIB's had to buy it from nV and then resell them, That way all components were set by a certain standard by nV.
Things like what happened with EVGA card then would not happen.
Its called quality control and that is what they expected consumers to pay for.
That is not price gouging they gave a reason, which if you look back after the EVGA incident for the past 2 generations, is valid. But is it really worth the price to consumers? Nope it wasn't. Consumers spoke.
But for OEM's and system builders its extremely valid because their warranties are not just for the cards, its for ever component, so if they went with EVGA AIB cards (non referecne designs) and a fire started and burnt other components, who is now on the hook? The system builders.
Just look at failure rates for AMD vs nV cards.....
AMD's are higher why is that?
You think FE is the reason for stability versus AMD cards? I call bullshit without direct evidence citing that itself. Older nvidia cards did fine without FE.
Because Nvidia cards are thrown out quicker and updated quicker generation after generation due to performance issues as time goes on . AMD cards are like fine wine that continue to improve over time . . .I have never had a nV reference design and that is from any of the AIB partners (they were never allowed to change any components from the reference design) card never fail and that is over 20 years of getting cards from them.
AMD cards I have never had the cards fail but I have had other problems with other components because of them. But they were none reference cards. Reference cards from ATi that I have gotten from ATi were solid too but most of them were underclocked.
So you tell me?
AMD cards I have never had the cards fail but I have had other problems with other components because of them. But they were none reference cards. Reference cards from ATi that I have gotten from ATi were solid too but most of them were underclocked.
So you tell me?
I'll tell you that claiming something without evidence isn't what I'm doing right now it's what you're doing.
You back it up.
You want me to google this, cause I can say AMD's failure rate is 2 times higher than nV's.
http://www.hardware.fr/articles/947-5/cartes-graphiques.html
You can see from but IHV's when going away from the reference design there are ones that have increased failure rates, the reference design ones, have less, and nV's even less then AMD's.
Digital Viper-X-
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except all of the high failure rate cards , were populare mining cards.
Also, why are high powered NV cards missing from the list?
Where is the 780 and the 780ti? There are both 290 and 290x listed there for AMD.
Doesn't matter what they were used for, it still a failure. And when you take out the none ref. design the failure rates are lower.
Added to this, please miners are like 5% of total sales, even that is probably high? Do we still stick the notion that miners made any decent amount of sales for AMD? AMD marketshare gains did not show up due to miners, it was just AMD's inability to supply cards at that time.
fingerbob69
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Bet he wasn't lobbying for those cards to be $100 & $70 over msrp! [and you can be sure that FE mark up was reflected in the OEM bulk price just as it was there for retail customers].
Digital Viper-X-
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Umm, lets see, 100% load 24/7, in most of the time, overly usually warm or hot rooms, and you think a failure is still a failure? You're comparing a couple of hours of varrying load on NV cards, to what mining put a card through, not exactly apples to apples.
You're saying that only 5% of the 280 and 290 cards were sold for mining? I highly HIGHLY doubt that, those cards were sold out for months on end, because of mining. If their market share didn't go up, it's becuase miners probably don't run Steam.
They would have agreed on the price too, OEM's and system builder's knew they had to pass the extra cost to their consumers, pretty big part in asking for something to be validated prior to putting it into their systems.
lolfail9001
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The guy who lobbied it builds PCs on order. Higher price is higher mark up for him.
I have had numerous nV cards at 100% for years in different systems with different configs, doing AI prototype software for CS, and never had a failure, maybe I was lucky?
Nah, AMD starting using marketshare with those cards, keep that in mind, if miners were the reason they were sold out, there would have gained marketshare because that is a new market for them.
Digital Viper-X-
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Maybe, I ran over 8 cards at 100% for months, only 1 failed, I guess I was lucky too? or maybe your sample size is small, or your workload isn't as intense as you think. We can go over the maybes all day, or we can acknowledge that mining lead to higher failure rates on certain AMD cards, as you can clearly see, the models with the higher rates, were the models that were popular for mining, that can't be a coincidence.
8 cards 1 failed that is higher than a 10% failure rate,higher than what those numbers showed ya.
My work load was huge, CS Credit Suisse were were running AI models that mimicked the stock market on a day to day basis.
Digital Viper-X-
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well, I had a small sample size, again, why are we even argueing this? You have to be pretty dense or in denial to even argue that mining has no impact on failure rate.
Mining load is more intense than gaming load, and people often ran custom BIOSs to improve performance, with the fans also running at 100%, and I wonder how many of those failures were fan related? I had an MSI fan fail on me in less then a month, should we blame AMD cards for MSI's shitty fans?
Gotta blame MSI for that, they didn't go with ref design lol. That is why I pointed out EVGA's screw up.
PS my sample size was not small, think of GPU banks that handled hundreds of TF's of data.
Did you read the next page where it says Why We Can't Actually "Undervolt"'
Anyway by lowering the 'voltage' it reduces performance to that of a 390X with 980 close at times and the 980 is still far more efficient so not sure how that article adds to this discussion, especially as at 1080p the 980 is beating the undervolted Fury (they mention it in the article) and 980 was not a great card for 4k in the 1st place - why it was great for comparing the 390x to the 980 for AMD at that resolution.
Cheers
Did you read the next page where it says Why We Can't Actually "Undervolt"'
Anyway by lowering the 'voltage' it reduces performance to that of a 390X with 980 close at times and the 980 is still far more efficient so not sure how that article adds to this discussion, especially as at 1080p the 980 is beating the undervolted Fury (they mention it in the article) and 980 was not a great card for 4k in the 1st place - why it was great for comparing the 390x to the 980 for AMD at that resolution.
Cheers
I honestly didn't see that there was a page 2 haha. I never go on other sites
EDIT: But after reading the 2nd page...
Opps sorry
Yeah at some point they will be doing that, depends when they can overcome the register-BW pressure of doubling up same fp/integer maths into multiple different CUDA core types and power demand.
But we may see some kind of evolution even now with Volta, kinda expecting something on this tbh.
Cheers
Yeah, unfortunately to make it look an interesting exercise they had to ignore the 1080 resolution results and focus on 4k.I honestly didn't see that there was a page 2 haha. I never go on other sites
EDIT: But after reading the 2nd page...
And I doubt anyone is really using 390x level of performance at 4k.
It needed a balance check, which would had been a normal 390x and seeing the practical benefits of performance of a reduced 'voltage' Fury relative to that, and then everyone would say why am I buying such an expensive Fury card to make it slower than a 390X
It still is not really efficient (Polaris is better at truly undervolting and shows an improvement over Fiji for this kind of behaviour), and controlling Nvidia cards may had needed more work as they managed to get undervolting working after that article for a later 980ti one.
Here is the results for a 980ti/1080/1070 undervolted, and they have serious power draw drops for an already efficient design.
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/nvidia-geforce-gtx-1070-8gb-pascal-performance,4585-8.html
Not showing charts in the post as our chat is a bit digressing, but still interesting.
Cheers
Chaos Machine
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Unless your product is superior and you are trying to deflate the sails of your competition before its release, video cards are a major capex for a gamer and the upgrade cycle is typically 2 years. They are losing out on market share every day they continue to have inferior products. I'd talk shit too if I had the stuff to back it up and I was coming from the position of an underdog. Where it can go all "John Romero" on them is if Vega sucks harder than a Frenchman wanting to larp as Edward Scissorhands.