Vega countdown has appeared

Ieldra said:
You have this backwards, the cards are worth what people will pay for them, arguing that the solution is for people to boycott the best products because they have no competition is absurd. AMD was unable to release products that cater to the high end, that is the problem.
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That is called having your cake and eat it. Which makes no sense , you want the best products in a capitalist society that means the demand for the product is high and the reason for the price is also high consumers keep buying the product. The only way the product would drop in price if no one is buying it. Not because of competition that is the biggest lie you keep telling yourself.

Nvidia created their own problem Nvidia users complaining about AMD only have themselves to blame not AMD.

Exclusive items have a high price and as soon as you can market them that way people will buy into it. Now why is another company responsible for a successful marketing of their competitor , that is the most absurd thing ever. When the consumer is only looking at one brand and not buying another there is no use for competing if it only helps to drive sales for the competition.
 
NKD said:
Where Nvidia won was in game development. As far as I can remember they were fuckin slapped on every damn video game. They just took over with stamping their logo on every game. That is where AMD failed, people do notice that. When a game is going to have a fuckin nvidia logo slapped all over it people tend to go that route. It matters big time. AMD seems to be doing a better job at that now. But boy they just let go off their involvement in games and pretty much let nvidia own that space. Nvidia didn't have to market much when most games had their name stamped on it.
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Does not work for me tho , but yeah it was a bit weird, but how would you feel if AMD just slaps their logo on top of every Vulkan and DX12 release with the message: AMD is Gaming , since they were instrumental in how the gaming universe is shaping today.
 
Pieter3dnow said:
Does not work for me tho , but yeah it was a bit weird, but how would you feel if AMD just slaps their logo on top of every Vulkan and DX12 release with the message: AMD is Gaming , since they were instrumental in how the gaming universe is shaping today.
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May not matter to informed but most people arent that informed. They go oh game I am gonna play has nvidia written on it so I should get nvidia. Most average games just go for that. I used to work retail it mattered alot where perception just became reality for these people.
 
NKD said:
May not matter to informed but most people arent that informed. They go oh game I am gonna play has nvidia written on it so I should get nvidia. Most average games just go for that. I used to work retail it mattered alot where perception just became reality for these people.
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We both get the sentiment :) Weird that no one at AMD is catching this ;) .
 
NKD said:
May not matter to informed but most people arent that informed. They go oh game I am gonna play has nvidia written on it so I should get nvidia. Most average games just go for that. I used to work retail it mattered alot where perception just became reality for these people.
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Well at least AMD is not flat out lying yet. :ROFLMAO:
 
Pieter3dnow said:
That is called having your cake and eat it. Which makes no sense , you want the best products in a capitalist society that means the demand for the product is high and the reason for the price is also high consumers keep buying the product. The only way the product would drop in price if no one is buying it. Not because of competition that is the biggest lie you keep telling yourself.
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The only way for people to stop buying said product at a given price is if a competing product stole its thunder... What an absurd notion man

Does amd have a 1070 competitor? No

Does amd have a 1080 competitor? No

Does amd have a Titan X competitor? No

Does amd have any say whatsoever in the pricing the aforementioned products? No!

This is like arguing that truffles are overpriced because people aren't buying enough mac and cheese. Different market
 
Ieldra said:
Since everyone is here anyway ill just post here, seems like early "leaked" reports point to zen hitting 4.2-4.4. I don't know if this is with normal cooling



I expect to see only FP64 units on the HPC cards, it would make sense given the performance of the announce volta soc and it being on the same node, 8packed int8 operations per clock on 64b wide units makes sense.

Curious what this entails for the 32b oriented consumer and CAD GPUs as the perf/w improvement must be gotten from elsewhere really :p



It's late relative to its competition
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It has to have FP32 as well, no HPC or GPU can work with just FP64 and so the most ideal ratio that can be used is 2:1, been like this forever although it is rare to achieve that ideal ratio; that was one advantage some Hawaii models had over Kepler (Maxwell-Fiji were FP32 focus only, which I appreciate you know).

And why Volta is looking to be one scary GPU architecture when one sees they hit the target for their FP64 in Volta at those watts, yeah this would be applicable to the 'V100', but we get a taste of how they structured the GPU model range in terms of silicon/cores-SMM by looking at GP100 down to GP104.
Cheers
 
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Pieter3dnow said:
That is called having your cake and eat it. Which makes no sense , you want the best products in a capitalist society that means the demand for the product is high and the reason for the price is also high consumers keep buying the product. The only way the product would drop in price if no one is buying it. Not because of competition that is the biggest lie you keep telling yourself.

Nvidia created their own problem Nvidia users complaining about AMD only have themselves to blame not AMD.

Exclusive items have a high price and as soon as you can market them that way people will buy into it. Now why is another company responsible for a successful marketing of their competitor , that is the most absurd thing ever. When the consumer is only looking at one brand and not buying another there is no use for competing if it only helps to drive sales for the competition.
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Seriously?

Do you even remember any nV product that wasn't competitively priced once competition was there?

Name one please.....

And you can go back 10 years if you like.

What kind of post like this? Seriously.
 
NKD said:
Where Nvidia won was in game development. As far as I can remember they were fuckin slapped on every damn video game. They just took over with stamping their logo on every game. That is where AMD failed, people do notice that. When a game is going to have a fuckin nvidia logo slapped all over it people tend to go that route. It matters big time. AMD seems to be doing a better job at that now. But boy they just let go off their involvement in games and pretty much let nvidia own that space. Nvidia didn't have to market much when most games had their name stamped on it.
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Hey that is marketing, and AMD tried and failed with their games programs more than once.
 
Anarchist4000 said:
Going by AMD's demonstration it's allegedly faster than a 1080 (with questionable drivers), but we have no idea just how large or expensive it is. It seems likely they added the tiled based rasterization that was the source of a lot of Nvida's gains. Going off those slides there are a "few" architectural changes that probably need some driver work. The design is also likely geared towards SM6 which isn't even out yet.

Bottom line we have no idea how many cores, what clocks, or even the die size. That could be a 200mm2, smaller than Polaris 10, die at which point competition would be a 1060. Unlikely, but there are a lot of key details we haven't seen to draw any conclusions.
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Actually please look at two websites to get more information 3d center and one WTF article about 6 months ago, there are tid bits there that can fill in most of what you think are still unknowns ;),

And Drivers would have been pretty much ready prior the the GPU being manufactured, by the time the GPU is up and running, Drivers are pretty much done. Tweaks yes, but don't expect a butt load of performance coming out of tweaks. Having stated that we don't know which Vega was used for demonstration, and it was "allegedly" faster by AMD, and "allegedly slower" by people that saw it. So pick and choose which one you want to pick up.

The Doom Vulkan demo was faster by 10% on Vega, which there is no question about that. But then again, If it wasn't faster then the 1080 in that game with Vulkan lol, they would be in deep trouble.
 
pendragon1 said:
some snippets of stuff I spotted in the background.

not sure what this is aboot...
View attachment 13749

Ruby was there!
View attachment 13750

lots of graffiti in the vid not sure what it all means, if anything... there is "k6op" or "k60p" repeated several times on one wall.
View attachment 13751


more stabs at nv and they better be right aboot the VR this time!
View attachment 13752
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It means Volta is DOA,
here is a read so you know what inspired the Vega architecture name.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vega
it means Volta will have unpredictable performance, it means they will some how botch the voltages, may fail to deliver what is promised, Reviewers In conjunction with Nvidia as always will hide it from users.
What I am gathering is that Vega will be kings of over clocking whilst Nvidia continues on their Higher Clocks more Volts Bruteforce Approach since Paxwell
 
MacLeod said:
I knew the release rumors for the last few months have been the first half of 2017. I was just saying that when I saw the thread I was hoping it was about a launch. And I just kinda think making a big countdown thing like this seems kind weird just for a preview that won't show us shit really. Maybe it's the norm, I don't know. Maybe the only reason I'm noticing this launch a little more is because AMD hasn't had a high end card out for a while (Fury X doesn't count cause it was slower and more expensive than its Nvidia counterpart) and Vega has been anticipated for a while.
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it will launch Jan 17 with Zen
 
Deathroned said:
It means Volta is DOA,
here is a read so you know what inspired the Vega architecture name.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vega
it means Volta will have unpredictable performance, it means they will some how botch the voltages, may fail to deliver what is promised, Reviewers In conjunction with Nvidia as always will hide it from users.
What I am gathering is that Vega will be kings of over clocking whilst Nvidia continues on their Higher Clocks more Volts Bruteforce Approach since Paxwell
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Wouldn't AMD like that to be true. How hilarious.

If anyone does a brute force approach it's AMD - maxed out voltages, no overclocking space, massive heat dissipation, i.e. see Fury lineup.
 
Deathroned said:
I don't know if this is true but I hears during Horizon Vega was running on the fury x microcode. and it would also make a good marketing tactic, buy Zen and Vega for 900 bucks
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LOL do you even know what microcode is, doesn't work that way....... the rest of your posts, are meh.... same old stuff....

Edit:

Now if you knew what microcode was, you would have been able to tell that person that told you that story to go hump a log lol, cause he didn't know WTF he was talking about. Instead you come here with his hearsay and spout it out, which makes you look like the.....

Which way is better, know you stuff and tell the guy that is BSing you off or make yourself the burden of jokes?

Microcode is the instruction level code of an ISA, if the ISA is different microcode has to be different, just the small changes going from Tonga to Fiji the ISA changed, Vega looks to be a quite a bit bigger of a change than that. So....... Get the picture, its impossible to use Fiji's microcode on Vega, it just would not work.
 
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pendragon1 said:
some snippets of stuff I spotted in the background.

not sure what this is aboot...
View attachment 13749
Click to expand...
latest
 
pendragon1 said:
I don't get it :(
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Valve's Source 2 getting AMD optimizations like the new FreeSync 2 which has game engine requirements for low latency HDR? Seems that Windows can't do HDR right without intervention from hardware vendors and game engines. Wonder if the HTC Vive 2 will have HDR if it doesn't already?

Pulling rabbits out da hat. ;) Trying to make it into a WCCFTECH story!
 
Ruoh said:
What do you have against tuna?
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cageymaru said:
I want to know also. I'll debate TaintedSquirrel all damn day long over tuna, catfish, bass, etc. Bet he's one of those girly allergic to seafood people. Like swollen glands or eyes ever stopped progress!
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Because I like tuna and I would celebrate Vega's launch with a delicious tuna sandwich.
What's wrong with you people...
 
CSI_PC I didn't mean it would lack FP32 support, just that they might go for packed FP32 on 64b units to save space on the HPC die
 
Ieldra said:
The only way for people to stop buying said product at a given price is if a competing product stole its thunder... What an absurd notion man
Does amd have a 1070 competitor? NoDoes amd have a 1080 competitor? NoDoes amd have a Titan X competitor? No Does amd have any say whatsoever in the pricing the aforementioned products? No!

This is like arguing that truffles are overpriced because people aren't buying enough mac and cheese. Different market
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Where does that mean that AMD has to have products out. It is just a rant of people thinking everything needs to have competition when there is competition it is something else. Then it is the drivers , it is another form of being petty.

If AMD had products would they have outsold Nvidia? NO!

Then why would you release products for the sake of releasing products, it makes no sense to dump whatever money into a card to appease the Nvidia only crowd.
If you are hell bent on buying expensive products there is a dual Fiji card out ?
 
Pieter3dnow said:
Where does that mean that AMD has to have products out. It is just a rant of people thinking everything needs to have competition when there is competition it is something else. Then it is the drivers , it is another form of being petty.

If AMD had products would they have outsold Nvidia? NO!

Then why would you release products for the sake of releasing products, it makes no sense to dump whatever money into a card to appease the Nvidia only crowd.
If you are hell bent on buying expensive products there is a dual Fiji card out ?
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IF AMD doesn't have products out, there is no competition to nV's products, then nV's products can be priced higher then normal, that is why the Titan X pascal is priced where it is. Pascal cards are priced similar to last gen, albeit a bit higher then normal in the Performance segment (no competition there right now), but in the mainstream where there is a competition they are priced where they should be.

Both the performance and enthusiast segment prices for Pascal is all due to no AMD cards available. Just as last gen, when the Titan X was launched no AMD cards, so its was priced 1k.

It was nice that nV didn't price gouge by increasing MSRP on the rest of the Maxwell and Pascal line ups outside of the enthusiast market, they could have done it if they wanted it, easily, gotten another 50 bucks extra for each card, but they didn't.

Dual Fiji is not competition to the gaming cards, its a hybrid card that is also for professionals and as you know multi gpu setups don't work most of the time. That is why no dual GPU card past or present were alternatives to a single large GPU on a card.
 
Pieter3dnow said:
Where does that mean that AMD has to have products out. It is just a rant of people thinking everything needs to have competition when there is competition it is something else. Then it is the drivers , it is another form of being petty.
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Where does AMD have to have products out? On the market...

You're the one complaining mate, you're complaining about the prices of the high end cards.
I replied to point out that they're expensive because AMD doesn't have any.

Nvidia can price them as high as people are willing to pay for them, and they're still outselling rx480.
If AMD had products would they have outsold Nvidia? NO!
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Why are you talking about who outsell s who now?

You bitched and whined about the pricing, AMD could influence the pricing if it had products to compete with 1070+.

Whether they outsell nvidia or not is irrelevant to the discussion you raised, plus wasn't AMD a benevolent company intent on providing the best value to the consumer and not focusing on amassing profits?

If you are hell bent on buying expensive products there is a dual Fiji card out ?
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I'm not hellbent on buying expensive cards, and if I were I'd rather buy an expensive card that wasn't a turd.
 
razor1 said:
IF AMD doesn't have products out, there is no competition to nV's products, then nV's products can be priced higher then normal, that is why the Titan X pascal is priced where it is. Pascal cards are priced similar to last gen, albeit a bit higher then normal in the Performance segment (no competition there right now), but in the mainstream where there is a competition they are priced where they should be.

Both the performance and enthusiast segment prices for Pascal is all due to no AMD cards available. Just as last gen, when the Titan X was launched no AMD cards, so its was priced 1k.

It was nice that nV didn't price gouge by increasing MSRP on the rest of the Maxwell and Pascal line ups outside of the enthusiast market, they could have done it if they wanted it, easily, gotten another 50 bucks extra for each card, but they didn't.

Dual Fiji is not competition to the gaming cards, its a hybrid card that is also for professionals and as you know multi gpu setups don't work most of the time. That is why no dual GPU card past or present were alternatives to a single large GPU on a card.
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Didnt Price gouge?
Do you not remember the FE scenario? Cause i remember looking all over for a damn AIB 1080 and could only find fucking FEs for like a month or two before I could get my Strix 1080.
We are not re-writing history about this now.
They launched the FE, made it expensive for no fucking reason, made it the only product you could buy for a month or two and then let the AIBs release the real cards. Thats gouging even if its not for the full duration of the products life its gouging.
 
{NG}Fidel said:
Didnt Price gouge?
Do you not remember the FE scenario? Cause i remember looking all over for a damn AIB 1080 and could only find fucking FEs for like a month or two before I could get my Strix 1080.
We are not re-writing history about this now.
They launched the FE, made it expensive for no fucking reason, made it the only product you could buy for a month or two and then let the AIBs release the real cards. Thats gouging even if its not for the full duration of the products life its gouging.
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FE was requested by the OEM's and system builders, and it didn't fly well with consumers, so no it wasn't price gauging by nV, not only that the MSRP wasn't even kept by AIB partners at launch with their base cards they price gauged to FE prices for basic cards. This was why nV dropped the FE for the 1060, they saw the back lash and changed.

The people that made more money on FE cards were AIB partners and OEM's and System builders.
 
{NG}Fidel said:
Didnt Price gouge?
Do you not remember the FE scenario? Cause i remember looking all over for a damn AIB 1080 and could only find fucking FEs for like a month or two before I could get my Strix 1080.
We are not re-writing history about this now.
They launched the FE, made it expensive for no fucking reason, made it the only product you could buy for a month or two and then let the AIBs release the real cards. Thats gouging even if its not for the full duration of the products life its gouging.
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It wasn't gouging. Gaming cards are a consumer luxury product. NV priced it right because they sold a ton of them. You had a purely luxury good decision to make and it didn't affect your livelihood at all. Move on and quit thinking either video card company owes you something as cheap as you want it.

Vote with your fucking wallet and quit crying over a fucking product that doesn't mean shit to your life.
 
its simple, people were willing to pay more than before for their cards, that is why we see the ridiculous 63% margins from nV, This is higher than Intel! Shit 10 years ago if any IHV had more than 40% it was awesome. Why did this change? People are upgrading to higher tier cards. AMD, no way did they miss this trend, they knew it, and they weren't able to get Vega out in their regular release cycle for what ever reason, money, timing due to issues, what ever. But something stopped them, and now we see the market affect of that.

Supply and demand and competition vs Price

When we have two companies making competitive products there is more supply and there is competition. Both of these drop prices. The third, demand, which is dropped due to both increased supply and competition (cause now there is choice)

Hence price will drop by the factors of all three.
 
See, this is why AMD fails so hard. They get the hype train going months in advance and it invariably gets out of control and off the rails. Then whatever it is comes out and no one can help but be disappointed. See: Polaris, Fury, etc, etc...
 
razor1 said:
FE was requested by the OEM's and system builders, and it didn't fly well with consumers, so no it wasn't price gauging by nV, not only that the MSRP wasn't even kept by AIB partners at launch with their base cards they price gauged to FE prices for basic cards. This was why nV dropped the FE for the 1060, they saw the back lash and changed.

The people that made more money on FE cards were AIB partners and OEM's and System builders.
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I don't remember oems and builders asking for it. I remember nv saying that that is what they had in mind and aiming for when they built it. and scalpers/fleabay d-bags selling them for $1K
 
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http://www.theverge.com/circuitbrea...nvidia-founders-edition-geforce-gtx-explained

Beyond the consumer aspect, Bennett also notes that PC vendors are also eager for such a Founders Edition, with Falcon Northwest chief Kelt Reeves having apparently lobbied for the present change. Reeves is said to appreciate the certainty of quality that comes with validating a card for use just once for its entire lifetime as a retail product. In other words, he doesn't like the fragmentation of having to deal with multiple suppliers of the same part, each of them employing different designs and adhering to different engineering standards.
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