Star Citizen Dev Asks For More Money

My biggest gripe with how this game is looking so far is the ground based infantry combat looks absolutely plain and boring and you need to drop a dozen or two of bullets in the chest. Hopefully that gets sorted out, gameplay is always much better when it's high damage output. That or a hardcore mode must exist.
 
TaintedSquirrel said:
I've been calling this game VAPORWARE since day one.
I will call it VAPORWARE once more today. See you guys in a few months when I get to call it VAPORWARE again.

(Some people get really pissed off when you call this game VAPORWARE)
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I would call this Scamware. Vaporware is more of something that is promised and never delivered usually without people paying for stuff. Idiots are forking out tons of cash into this.
 
FearTheCow said:
Shall I link the Kickstarter that stated the game would be released by now WITH all its features and with a much smaller budget?
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This is a common argument, but people forget (or ignore) the event timeline that led up to today.
Back when the KS campaign started, Chris Roberts had no idea how much money he would get from Kickstarter so the design of the game was much simpler to keep costs in check. The dates given were for a much simpler game and game design.
When the KS campaign was over, the amount backed was much higher than anyone had anticipated. Then the RSI website brought in more money, so the game was expanded to reflect the additional money.

Due to the extremely high level of funding received so far, Chris is taking a gamble that he can build the back-end infrastructure and core services and gameplay elements that he originally envisioned as "very long term goals" (and never mentioned in the KS campaign) into the "first release product", instead of adding those goals to the original game as described in the KS campaign over a longer time period as funds allowed. The alpha releases are ways to show backers how parts of the game are coming together and to get feedback.

You can argue that this was a stupid decision or not, but his thinking is that spending the extra time and money now to build these elements into the game is better in the long term (development efficiency) than building the simple (as-promised Kickstarter) game now and adding features over time.
 
Does this public test of Squadron 42 include the whole game or just a small region to pew pew at each other?
 
Sonicks said:
I have to admit, I never heard of this game until just now and that gameplay video did look fishy to me but now I've read up on it a bit, I applaud them for even have a playable 'game' to show off currently. So kudos to them.

But the games you listed have the backing of huge, established, and near limitless resource game studios and funding. My guess is that people are not very trustworthy of a kickstarter-type game coming up with ambitions as high as this. And it makes sense. A startup game this ambitious has everything working against it. High expectations, low funding, no established backing, and lofty promises. It's natural for people to feel the way they have been. I mean look no further than No Man's Sky to see why gamers have become so jaded.
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It's not just what you mentioned, but Chris Roberts has a history of never being "satisfied" with his games. In fact, back in his origin days, the only reason he ever released his wing commander and strike commander games was because his publisher demanded a finished product to be let loose. If it weren't for an overseer, the wing commander games would have ended up in eternal limbo like star citizen has become. Roberts is only living up to his history, which is sad to say it has not changed.
 
This whole kick starter crap for games amazes the crap out of me. So many people have hundreds of dollars invested into this attempt at a game that's not even out. What the hell?
 
Backed the game during the KS phase. Every few months I log on to see if there's been any significant progress. So far each time has been met with a resounding 'meh'. So far I can walk around my hangar, walk around a space station, and fly my ship around a space arena.

I've got hopes that the game will eventually live up to Roberts' promises, but those hopes fade with each delay. I appreciate the new attempt at transparency and we'll see if the situation improves.
 
TaintedSquirrel said:
I've been calling this game VAPORWARE since day one.
I will call it VAPORWARE once more today. See you guys in a few months when I get to call it VAPORWARE again.

(Some people get really pissed off when you call this game VAPORWARE)
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Probably because it doesn't fit the definition. There are playable segments of the game already available, albeit in "early access" as it were.
 
FearTheCow said:
Shall I link the Kickstarter that stated the game would be released by now WITH all its features and with a much smaller budget?
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.......You do realize that the scope of the game changed DRASTICALLY as it was being built and new funds/stretch goals were added right?

Things like fps combat, atmospheric flight, planet landing, etc were NOT originally planned, definitely not for launch either.

Also they intended to develop the sp first before mp, but found out it'd be much better to co-dev both the sp/multiplayer as the tech and things they build can be better utilized between them.

Also on top of all of this, there's not one, not ONE game that doesn't change estimated dev time when it's first revealed internally (before the public reveal). There's always something unexpected or a hiccup here and there. They simply didn't have the luxury of normal games that have a huge publisher behind them to build to "alpha" and THEN announce the game. They had to announce it and estimate a time frame before they even STARTED working on it, which is virtually impossible.
 
EODetroit said:
The livestream was an embarrassment.

As for "asking for more money", that's another clickbait headline. They have developers working on new ships constantly, as that's their job, what they're good at, what they do. As ships reach milestones, they're made available for sale. This doesn't equate to "asking for more money" with the implication that they can't finish the game without it. They can and will finish the game without another pre-release cent, if need be. Until they lay off the ship designers, there will be new ships for sale. After the game is released, you'll have to buy them with in-game currency, but as a bonus for funding development before the game is released, you have the chance to buy ships with RL money now, if you want.

Nowhere is it implied that they don't have the money to finish the game. If you suggest that, you're an idiot, a troll, or both.

Oh by the way, the FPS module (Star Marine) is now on the test server and everyone is saying it is awesome. So if you think there really isn't a game behind all this, you're being willfully ignorant.
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SO how many ships do you own for the game you can't play?
 
I paid the $45 for SQ42. They can take their time, I don't really care and I have no interest in the MMO part or the extra ships. All I wanted was to put some money down on a space sim so publishers would know there's actually a market for them and I can only hope we'll start to see some good ones now that SC has generated so much money. I want a Freespace 3 (or at least its spiritual successor, lol).
 
Got in this for $28 during the kickstarter. Tried the very first alpha and haven't touched it since. Probably won't touch it till Squadron 42 is released (if it ever is). For me I am a pretty big pessimist when it comes to this game. Nothing gives more confidence in a project than constant weekly fundraising emails in the guise of updates for game progress that more than exceeded it's funding goals by a factor greater than 10x IIRC. Yeah you can argue about how the goals changed cause they got more funding than they needed so they need more time now, but it still doesn't change the fact that they NEVER offered to early backers a full refund due to the change in scope. That would have been the right thing to do but they were more worried the whale backers would pull out if given that chance. I would not have gotten a refund if offered since I am only in it for $28, but full refunds should have been offered regardless for anyone who backed it during the kickstarter period, even those that backed directly from RSI website, as soon as the goal posts were moved as a show of good faith. Their horrible take a vote on their forum poll to decide if they should continue with the kickstarter goals or go to vision 2.0 that seemingly only got voted on by zealots that are on their forums was IMHO invalid. FYI even though I have gotten pretty much every email I somehow never got that one about a vote on the change of direction the game was going to take.

Well whatever happens doesn't really affect me. Hoping for the best but still expecting it to be a loss. They definitely won't get a penny more from me, but I still feel real bad about the ones that have thousands spent on this game if it ends up tanking with no finished product ever released.
 
Guys, the 2.6 update is pretty good progress. I'm telling you, I played it last night. You can't sit here talking about a game you have not backed and call it vaporware... when it's not vaporware. Nor is it a scam. I'm not stupid. The project could fail anywhere along the way if they run out of money. Fine. I was prepared for that.

But what I'm telling you is that where they are in the process now, there is a game being made and what is shaping up looks GOOD.

Full disclosure: I have fed them a little here and there and am into it for about $250. That sounds terrible right? For me, no. I loved the game's concept. And I viewed it exactly like this: I'm willing to risk the game not getting done, and I'm paying in advance for a little under 2 years worth of MMO monthly fees. (WoW wouldn't cost me any less to play) and this is a game concept I actually WANT to be made.

So how do I lose? Only if it never gets done.

Right now, it's getting done. Slowly, but it's happening.

The FPS play last night was pretty damn fun. Once that's all fleshed out and balanced it'll be pretty unique for an MMO universe.
 
I've got about $150 in Star Citizen. I have no problem with them taking their time and even if it does turn out to fail, I'm sure all the assets they've created will be sold and incorporated into something.
 
Stiler said:
GTA V
Fallout 4
Red Dead Redemption
Skyrim

Know what all of these games have in common? They are HUGE open world games, which all took at least 5+ years of development time.
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The difference between Star Citizen and the games you've listed are that the games listed didn't suffer from perpetual scope creep, had deadlines the devs were forced to stick to and had publishers breathing down their neck to release a working product in a specific timeframe. Star Citizen does not have those checks in place. In fact, doesn't Chris Roberts have a history of having issues with publishers because of issues of scope creep in projects he worked on in the past?
 
Fix Me said:
I paid the $45 for SQ42. They can take their time, I don't really care and I have no interest in the MMO part or the extra ships. All I wanted was to put some money down on a space sim so publishers would know there's actually a market for them and I can only hope we'll start to see some good ones now that SC has generated so much money. I want a Freespace 3 (or at least its spiritual successor, lol).
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Same here, I think I have around $40 total into it and all I really care about is SQ42. So while I'm disappointed we haven't seen any of that yet, I've played the PTU and can acknowledge the work that's gone into the game there.
 
EODetroit said:
Nowhere is it implied that they don't have the money to finish the game. If you suggest that, you're an idiot, a troll, or both.
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If you suggest they do have enough money, you must know when the game is going to be released. By Roberts' own admission they're burning $3m+ per month which, given the current funding total, is just under 4 years of development time. It's over 4 years since the Kickstarter (5 since Roberts claims to have started working on it), so even allowing for the gradual ramp up in running costs as staff were hired and offices opened (and ignoring potentially huge one-time costs like motion capture), they're on borrowed time. They can't keep going forever, especially if, as you and Chris Roberts claim, they already have enough money to finish the games.

So when is the game going to be released? Their current roadmap covers at least another year until alpha 4, but they also claimed we'd have 3.0 by the end of this year, and they still haven't finished 2.6.

Anyone who claims CIG have enough money to continue indefinitely is the idiot or the troll.
 
It's not like they ever stopped asking for more money.

I'm not interested in Star Citizen. All I wanted was SQ42, and they promised to deliver that first. But instead all they seem to be working on is star citizen. So I feel cheated. And I have very little actual faith left that there ever will be a finished single player game.

I just hope they don't run out of the fresh supply of gullible people, so they can deliver at least half a game before they file for bankruptcy
 
Advil said:
Guys, the 2.6 update is pretty good progress. I'm telling you, I played it last night. You can't sit here talking about a game you have not backed and call it vaporware... when it's not vaporware. Nor is it a scam. I'm not stupid. The project could fail anywhere along the way if they run out of money. Fine. I was prepared for that.

But what I'm telling you is that where they are in the process now, there is a game being made and what is shaping up looks GOOD.

Full disclosure: I have fed them a little here and there and am into it for about $250. That sounds terrible right? For me, no. I loved the game's concept. And I viewed it exactly like this: I'm willing to risk the game not getting done, and I'm paying in advance for a little under 2 years worth of MMO monthly fees. (WoW wouldn't cost me any less to play) and this is a game concept I actually WANT to be made.

So how do I lose? Only if it never gets done.

Right now, it's getting done. Slowly, but it's happening.

The FPS play last night was pretty damn fun. Once that's all fleshed out and balanced it'll be pretty unique for an MMO universe.
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"Guys, I'm telling you, Crystal is making real progress on her singing, dancing and acting career. She won prizes in school for her horse drawings! Yeah she's a stripper but that's only for now, and the money I keep giving her every week is just to help her out of the rough patch she's going through. When her rent is due or her car breaks down, she can count on me! Every now and then she flashes a boob and let's me touch and I give her more. Okay yeah she bought a flat-screen TV for her boyfriend and then took a trip to Tahiti with her girlfriend, but that was HER OWN MONEY. I'm not stupid.

The world hasn't been fair to Crystal and besides, it's Christmas. So please everyone stop calling her a con-artist stripper or telling me I'm dumb for helping her - her big break is right around the corner and then we'll be together. It's going to happen, I can feel it!"
 
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Advil said:
Guys, the 2.6 update is pretty good progress. I'm telling you, I played it last night. You can't sit here talking about a game you have not backed and call it vaporware... when it's not vaporware. Nor is it a scam. I'm not stupid. The project could fail anywhere along the way if they run out of money. Fine. I was prepared for that.

But what I'm telling you is that where they are in the process now, there is a game being made and what is shaping up looks GOOD.

Full disclosure: I have fed them a little here and there and am into it for about $250. That sounds terrible right? For me, no. I loved the game's concept. And I viewed it exactly like this: I'm willing to risk the game not getting done, and I'm paying in advance for a little under 2 years worth of MMO monthly fees. (WoW wouldn't cost me any less to play) and this is a game concept I actually WANT to be made.

So how do I lose? Only if it never gets done.

Right now, it's getting done. Slowly, but it's happening.

The FPS play last night was pretty damn fun. Once that's all fleshed out and balanced it'll be pretty unique for an MMO universe.
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Yeah, but people, especially on internet forums, like to bitch about things, hope things fail, laugh at things, talk to no end about things they don't have solid information about, etc. Just the way it is. I played the last Alpha a little bit, as I hadn't given it a try since they first put AC online. It has come a LONG way since that time.

The major problem with crowdfunding is that you're basically showing your backers everything you're up to, but also how much longer it might take than initial estimated. Only, it's not just available to backers, EVERYONE can see it. Then you get people who have no actual interest speaking negatively about it, others jump on the bandwagon, and then you have what we have here.

I'm not saying that aspects of the projects shouldn't be criticized a bit, and I'm not saying that it's not going to fail at some point. However, I also think it's stupid to say it will fail, is failing, or is a scam when it's fucking obvious that things are getting built. Even just the little section of city that I played in the other day was so incredibly detailed, that I was impressed just by the scale of it, and how long it must have taken to build just that small portion.

Anyway, we won't know how it turns out until it turns out one way or the other.

People were actually saying similar things about Doom before it was released because they only saw a small snippet of MP game play. I guess spouting a bunch of hate made them all feel good about themselves. Then, the game released, was a spectacular success with the very same people bitching singing out its praises in the following months.

The more visible a project is, the more people are going to find ways to pick at it, founded or not.

I bought one lower-priced ship for this game, have popped in to see what's happening maybe three times over the development cycle. It's quite clear to me that they're working on the game(s). I still have a very "wait and see" view of it, but the fact is, work has been done, and continues to be done, so at least in the near term, there's nothing to complain about. Games take a long time to develop. Especially big games. Well this game isn't big, it's fucking huge. It wouldn't surprise me if it took another 3-5 years to fully finish the PU and all of SQ42 in the least. As long as I see progress throughout the development time, I don't feel my money was wasted.

Backing a crowdfunded game is venture capitalism on a small scale. Of course there is fucking risk. As a backer one needs to determine if he should believe in the developer of the product, and determine how safe it is of a bet, and whether the final promised product is something that he feels is worth the investment. Otherwise he's just an idiot. (or she)
 
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The game has improved immensely with the 2.6 update. Stability, frame rates and features are significantly more polished. The developers are putting in a TON of work getting this beast moving and it looks good so far.

However...there is something to be said for future creep. The early funding successes of SC could ultimately be its undoing. We went from Privateer and Freelancer in Cry-Engine to a game with features that seem to be offered by the devil himself. I have to admit that it does look "Too good to be True". Personal experience with car salesmen tells me to beware.

*IF* they can pull it off, they will have fundamentally changed the paradigm of gaming as we know it. If they can't...there will be many pissed off individuals and we will have seen the last of Chris Roberts along with crowd funded gaming in general.

Personally, I have hope. The universe is shaping up well in 2.6. 3.0 will make it or break it. Will reserve vapor / scamware judgement until then.
 
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M76 said:
It's not like they ever stopped asking for more money.

I'm not interested in Star Citizen. All I wanted was SQ42, and they promised to deliver that first. But instead all they seem to be working on is star citizen. So I feel cheated. And I have very little actual faith left that there ever will be a finished single player game.

I just hope they don't run out of the fresh supply of gullible people, so they can deliver at least half a game before they file for bankruptcy
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As long as they continue to sell pictures of ships and a even few you can walk around in plus release a playable test sandbox every now and then the money will pour in. The only issue is if CR starts to spend way more money than the monthly coffers can refill. Hire a few more stars for cameo's and that should do it.
 
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DPI said:
"Guys, I'm telling you, Crystal is making real progress on her acting career. Yeah she's a stripper but that's just for now, and the money I keep giving her every week is just to help her out of the rough patch she's going through. When her rent is due or her car breaks down, she can count on me! Every now and then she flashes a boob and let's me touch and I give her more. Okay yeah she bought a flat-screen TV for her boyfriend and then took a trip to Tahiti with her girlfriend, but that was HER OWN MONEY. I'm not stupid.

The world hasn't been fair to Crystal and besides, it's Christmas. So please everyone stop calling her a lying stripper whore or telling me I'm dumb for helping her - her big break is right around the corner and then we'll be together. It's going to happen, I can feel it!"
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Ok, I disagree with you as far as parallels go at least to a degree, but this made me giggle to no end. :D
 
Rahh said:
This whole kick starter crap for games amazes the crap out of me. So many people have hundreds of dollars invested into this attempt at a game that's not even out. What the hell?
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some spent thousands!
I just don't get how they have worked with the budget of a major AAA blockbuster movie and have so little to show. aren't they pushing like $200M!?
 
Litfod said:
If you suggest they do have enough money, you must know when the game is going to be released. By Roberts' own admission they're burning $3m+ per month which, given the current funding total, is just under 4 years of development time. It's over 4 years since the Kickstarter (5 since Roberts claims to have started working on it), so even allowing for the gradual ramp up in running costs as staff were hired and offices opened (and ignoring potentially huge one-time costs like motion capture), they're on borrowed time. They can't keep going forever, especially if, as you and Chris Roberts claim, they already have enough money to finish the games.

So when is the game going to be released? Their current roadmap covers at least another year until alpha 4, but they also claimed we'd have 3.0 by the end of this year, and they still haven't finished 2.6.

Anyone who claims CIG have enough money to continue indefinitely is the idiot or the troll.
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They really should have released SQ42 while continuing to work on the persistent universe. That would have kept a good portion of people quiet while they continued on. They could have also had some bonuses tied into those releases to make a little extra money in the process for deluxe packages and things. I'm also more interested in SQ42 than SC. I'm in no rush to play it though. I can barely find enough time to play the things I do have. I just bought my 315P, (that's the style of ship for my projected style of play) and kind of let it slip out of my mind. When I see major news, it's cool. If I don't for a while, it's cool. I'm sure it will eventually get where it needs to be, and I'll still be around to play it.
 
pendragon1 said:
some spent thousands!
I just don't get how they have worked with the budget of a major AAA blockbuster movie and have so little to show. aren't they pushing like $200M!?
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Yeah, I've seen people spend a lot on this. I wasn't willing to put in even 3 digits. I figured I'd buy a package and a couple of small add-on items that were roughly equivalent to what a brand new AAA game costs, and then leave it at that. If it's successful, I'll consider it well played. If not, I'm not out more than any other game I've ever bought, and then maybe didn't like that much, or didn't play that much.
 
FearTheCow said:
Shall I link the Kickstarter that stated the game would be released by now WITH all its features and with a much smaller budget?
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Shall I link the poll where the developers asked the community if they wanted to halt the scope so that it's a smaller game or continue and push for more but it would take longer?

FYI, the community chose to keep expanding.
 
Stiler said:
.......You do realize that the scope of the game changed DRASTICALLY as it was being built and new funds/stretch goals were added right
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You don't know that feature-creep to sell virtual goods for as long as they can find gullible people wasn't the business model all along. Even if not, it became clear that they quickly learned that selling the IDEA of a game was far more lucrative than selling a game.

Its for the same reason that people always say the book is better than the movie, because in the book you have to use your own imagination to fill in the gaps. And of course your imagination fills in those gaps with what you like best. So SC keeps things vague and just creating a loose "book like" framework of what the game could be like, letting people imagine this perfect game in their minds, and making them feel too invested in the game (mentally and of course financially) to give up hope well past the point it should be obvious they were scammed.

This is the "whaling" phenomenon taken to a whole new level, and frankly its quite unethical as there are people with meager means that are spending thousands of dollars on vapor.
 
FalconSS said:
Shall I link the poll where the developers asked the community if they wanted to halt the scope so that it's a smaller game or continue and push for more but it would take longer?

FYI, the community chose to keep expanding.
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That would have only been the true for the people who chose to partake in the poll, it does not absolve CIG of their obligations to earlier backers. When I gave them money during the KickStarter, I expected them to attempt to deliver based on their initial timeline of late 2014/early 2015. Attempting to deliver a much larger game (and failing at this I might add) is not what I wanted, it is almost 2017 and my life is much different from when I backed in 2012. Time frames are very important, if this gave ever releases it will be competing with games that had not even been dreamt of in 2012.
 
PersonalJ said:
That would have only been the true for the people who chose to partake in the poll, it does not absolve CIG of their obligations to earlier backers.
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This isn't pre-ordering a game. This is backing either a start-up project, or an ongoing project. As a responsible backer (once again "small time venture capitalist") you'd want to check in once in a while, follow the project, and vote in cases where your input might be asked for. Or, you're just along for the ride. Besides that, provided the project keeps going well enough, you'll get what you back and more. There isn't a game on the planet that either didn't run over budget, over estimated time-frame, or didn't come out like shit because it was forced out too early by a publisher except for the companies with enough influence and common sense to say "it'll release WHEN IT'S DONE". (like id Software for example) Would you rather this was shoveled out unfinished? Go play something else while you wait, and be pleasantly surprised when it comes out better than initially planned. Or, if you're not comfortable with the risk, don't back it in the first place.

Like I said, you're not pre-ordering a game. You're helping fund a project that may or may not come out as expected. It's up to YOU to decide whether it's worth the risk to get the reward.
 
Ducman69 said:
You don't know that feature-creep to sell virtual goods for as long as they can find gullible people wasn't the business model all along. Even if not, it became clear that they quickly learned that selling the IDEA of a game was far more lucrative than selling a game.

Its for the same reason that people always say the book is better than the movie, because in the book you have to use your own imagination to fill in the gaps. And of course your imagination fills in those gaps with what you like best. So SC keeps things vague and just creating a loose "book like" framework of what the game could be like, letting people imagine this perfect game in their minds, and making them feel too invested in the game (mentally and of course financially) to give up hope well past the point it should be obvious they were scammed.

This is the "whaling" phenomenon taken to a whole new level, and frankly its quite unethical as there are people with meager means that are spending thousands of dollars on vapor.
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While I agree with you on the "whaling" front (that's why I hate f2p business models) I disagree in terms of the development of SC.

They have been working on the game,l you can read updates, see videos and things about all that they are working on. You make it seem like it's a bunch of people sitting around doing nothing and just making ships to sell, that's really far from the truth.
 
Stiler said:
They have been working on the game,l you can read updates, see videos and things about all that they are working on. You make it seem like it's a bunch of people sitting around doing nothing and just making ships to sell, that's really far from the truth.
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Well that's where I disagree.

I don't think they are working on releasing a finished game.

They are working, but I believe they are working on selling the idea of a game, and to keep that idea alive and revenue stream coming, you have to release periodic updates and give excuses as to why the game isn't released yet (feature creep and moving goalposts).

The released game can never live up to the IDEA of the game in people's minds, and a released finished product can be finally reviewed as such and condemned if it sucks, unlike controlled tech demo videos and models of ships to sell. So a final game release is something that will eventually happen, but only when the primary business model of selling the IDEA has become so stale that it can no longer be monetized.

IMO the best fair model for "mega games" with large universes that you want to expand upon and keep around is purely subscription based. No buying special items or bypassing grind or any of that nonsense. Just a flat subscription fee, as that encourages that they continue to maintain and grow the game, since subscribers can unsubscribe at any time.
 
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