President-Elect Meets With Silicon Valley Elite

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So you didn't disprove my point at all. Good job. http://www.namsdl.org/library/B86EEA4F-1372-636C-DD9DC3EC15AA9959/ As all states have 50 different regulations, they're pretty consistent in making sure the recipient is identifiable. I never was specific. The point I brought up surrounding ID is that prescription drugs require identifications and your rebuke is "Yes but...." Nothing's changed.

The position that Fiorina is supposedly going to be placed in has nothing to do with job offshoring. But hey keep talking about HP even though Mark Hurd continued where Fiorina left off where another 15,000 were laid off. So your opinion is that she's automatically disqualified because the board of directors of HP insisted on eliminating the HP Way and changing the company culture that Fiorina started and Mark Hurd finished.

Please show me a single state in that link where it says you need ID to pick up a prescription. "Controlled substances", yes. Just like you need ID to buy alcohol, or you could just not buy alcohol. Good job. There are plenty of people who get by in their day to day lives without having to present ID regularly.
 
Totally OT:

Y'all brought a joyful tear to my eyes with this thread. It felt like oldschool genmay.

Back to sniping each other for no good reason!
 
It's been pretty weird watching the winners of the election be so angry about election fraud and questioning the legitimacy of the election they just won. And they're still all dark and gloomy and mad... like they don't know how to behave when things are going their way. You've won all three branches of government, and you can do what you want now - so why are you so unhappy?
 
Please show me a single state in that link where it says you need ID to pick up a prescription. "Controlled substances", yes. Just like you need ID to buy alcohol, or you could just not buy alcohol. Good job. There are plenty of people who get by in their day to day lives without having to present ID regularly.
You contradict yourself then. You said you need photo ID to pick up a prescription and now you say you don't? I don't care about the classifications about these prescriptions. Are prescription drugs picked up at a local pharmacy generally a controlled substance? Yes depending on the schedule as you admit. The point is, do you need photo ID for prescription? The answer is "Yes for a number of them." That's it but instead you chose to obfuscate.

The whole discussion is over photo ID but which I don't care about the specifics and I was talking about the generalities which you obviously missed the point on. States that mandate photo ID for voting have no issues with having people vote without a photo ID because they do supply a provisional ballot as a substitute and that goes through a series of steps to ensure that they are A) registered to vote B) are authorized to vote in the election, C) do not have eligibility issues like a felony in most states if not all states, etc. http://www.866ourvote.org/issues/provisional-balloting The biggest criteria in all states is that a potential voter must be a registered voter within the jurisdiction they reside in and that typically either requires registration at the election booth or prior to the start of an election. If registering by mail, they must be postmarked which unfortunately cost money (the stamp). As a result of this, the poll tax is a myth contrary to what people argue on regarding photo ID.
 
It's been pretty weird watching the winners of the election be so angry about election fraud and questioning the legitimacy of the election they just won. And they're still all dark and gloomy and mad... like they don't know how to behave when things are going their way. You've won all three branches of government, and you can do what you want now - so why are you so unhappy?
I have not seen any of what you're talking about. The problem arises from the fact that Clinton's allies are trying to find excuses of why they lost the elections in Michigan, Wisconsin, and Pennslyvania and they're trying to influence the Trump electors to vote for Clinton other than Donald Trump on Monday even though they are bound by law of their states to vote for the state victor. The electors in the news trying to get access to Intelligence briefings are 29 out of 30 Democrats that supports Hillary. The lone Republican, Chris Suprun, is going to get his ass canned the day of the electoral college anyways and replaced by an alternate so it doesn't matter how much noise he makes. The other Texas elector resigned his position so on Monday, his alternate will replace him. As soon as Monday gets here, there's no recourses left for Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump will be inaugurated on January 20th, 2017.
 
The problem arises from the fact that Clinton's allies are trying to find excuses of why they lost the elections in Michigan, Wisconsin, and Pennslyvania and they're trying to influence the Trump electors to vote for Clinton other than Donald Trump on Monday even though they are bound by law of their states to vote for the state victor.
They know, its mostly just FUD to get money (no refunds Bernie/Stein style) and attempt to delegitimize the completely Republican dominated government, because they fear that if America prospers, they may never hold positions of real power again. So they will try to salt the Earth and do everything in their power to try and make America fail, but its only they that will fail.

BTW, back on topic, Twitter wasn't invited because "The Conference Table was only So Big", lol! PWNED!
 
2016-election-by-county-640x417.png


Trump won an overwhelming 7.5 million popular vote victory in 3,084 of the country's 3,141 counties or county equivalents in America's heartland, and no I don't believe that America benefits when a couple mega cities that refuse to implement even the most basic voter fraud protections attempts to dominate US politics.

That looks like it's showing population distribution. Hate to state the obvious, but votes are not measured by square miles.

17764_THUMB_IPAD.jpg


For example, the population of a big city vs a bunch of the flyover states:

compareregionblatt2_1.png.CROP.original-original.png
 
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Steve's post was pretty neutral as far as I can tell. It's just you can't even say Trump without it immediately turning partisan.

I mean you pretty much can't say even something like "I had pancakes for breakfast" because somehow it was trump or hillarys doing.
 
I finally understand.
Yeah, you really don't, and that's why you've completely lost control of the government. You refuse to take a step back and ask "is there something about myself I can improve?" It reminds me of an awkward young teenage boy that really likes a girl, yet lacks any social skills so ends up just throwing a rock at her.

You keep painting this monolith straw man, and then are so confused why you are rejected in favor of this imaginary monster you've imagined up. "How can she prefer this beast to me!?!? The world is crazy" No, you just need to stand in front of a mirror for 30 minutes and ask "What is not attractive about me, and what can I do to address that".

That's why you lost.
 
Yeah, you really don't, and that's why you've completely lost control of the government. You refuse to take a step back and ask "is there something about myself I can improve?" It reminds me of an awkward young teenage boy that really likes a girl, yet lacks any social skills so ends up just throwing a rock at her.

You keep painting this monolith straw man, and then are so confused why you are rejected in favor of this imaginary monster you've imagined up. "How can she prefer this beast to me!?!? The world is crazy" No, you just need to stand in front of a mirror for 30 minutes and ask "What is not attractive about me, and what can I do to address that".

That's why you lost.

I agree, i think as soon as anyone says ( i have been guilty of this myself) "all these people are the problem" and you see yourself as better than that group, you are part of the problem, just the part you aren't able to see yet.
 
A top anthropologist says the US is flooded with 'bulls---' jobs that should disappear.
http://www.businessinsider.com/david-graeber-jobs-should-disappear-2016-12

If we cut out all of these meaningless, redundant jobs, maybe American companies could compete with China and other countries. Right now we just keep hiring more and more people to do nothing. Jobs that a machine could do for a lot less money.

What's wrong with paying someone for 15 hours of work instead of 40 if that is all that they are needed for? Of course we would have to figure out how to redistribute wealth.
 
Yeah, you really don't, and that's why you've completely lost control of the government. You refuse to take a step back and ask "is there something about myself I can improve?" It reminds me of an awkward young teenage boy that really likes a girl, yet lacks any social skills so ends up just throwing a rock at her.

You keep painting this monolith straw man, and then are so confused why you are rejected in favor of this imaginary monster you've imagined up. "How can she prefer this beast to me!?!? The world is crazy" No, you just need to stand in front of a mirror for 30 minutes and ask "What is not attractive about me, and what can I do to address that".

That's why you lost.

I don't even live in the US ... so I didn't lose control of anything. Your country can keep the Trump "utopia" you have created ... the rest of the word will continue to sit back and laugh as your country destroys itself.
 
I finally understand. It has always made me wonder why a forum, dedicated to technology, is so anti-green technology, anti-climate change, anti-science .... it is because there are so many Trump supporters here.
I like to think we're more skeptical than the average group of individuals. There are all sorts of bs claims made by people of all backgrounds and it does nobody any favors for us to just take them at face value. Just accepting bs science is why we've had subsidies enforcing ethanol in our gasoline for a couple decades now when it is known to be a net loss in efficiency - as in 10% ethanol results in 10% less mpg.
 
I finally understand. It has always made me wonder why a forum, dedicated to technology, is so anti-green technology, anti-climate change, anti-science .... it is because there are so many Trump supporters here.

It's not that we're all Trump supporters, some of us aren't. I think it's just because we as Americans are tired of the BS. Will Trump fix everything? No. But we're certainly better off with Trump than we would be with the Clintons & her cronies.
 
3 questions

1) Are you in favor of poll taxes, despite the fact the are unconstitutional? If so, why not put the tax at $10,000 or something similar? Read up a bit on Voter ID (https://www.aclu.org/other/oppose-voter-id-legislation-fact-sheet). If you disagree, please provide evidence of an area where voter fraud has been proven to be a real problem (and conspiracy sites are not acceptable submissions).

https://www.dnainfo.com/chicago/20161019/downtown/vote-rigged-elections-history-fraud-stolen-trump

Wisconsin's also a hotbed.

2) In a land of Immigrants, is it a surprise that a large number would not have English as their native language? I'm not certain all my grandparents would qualify as English as a native language - 2 of them spoke German fluently. And they were 2nd and 3rd generation in the US!

Thing is, we're not talking about naturalized or natural-born citizens. We're talking about resident immigrants and illegal immigrants. People who aren't supposed to be voting in the national election.

3) In the current system with the electoral college, a vote in Wyoming is worth 4 votes in California. Why should one vote be more equal than others? If we're going to be arbitrary as to who's vote is worth more, can we have education be the deciding factor? Why not make a BS degree be worth 2x the vote of someone who didn't graduate High School? Maybe make a Masters worth 3x, and a Doctorate worth 4x?

The EC exists as a system to prevent the popular vote, which favors dense urban populations from holding sway, leading to effective mob rule.

The packing of urban areas is EXTREMELY slow to change. So relying on a popular vote could lead to decades or centuries of single-party hegemony where the interests of a huge (but still minority) swath of people are simply ignored.

The EC's structure tracks to the US Census. And while the Census doesn't result in HUGE swings, it does modify over time, resulting in differences in "swing states" and the like each time the Census comes in.

The EC also requires that a candidate build a coalition of support across a large chunk of the US, rather than just hitting 8-10 dense urban areas and telling the rest of the country to FOAD.

And the EC has ALWAYS operated this way, since the founders (who held a deep distrust of direct democracy, as it had a tendency to implode) instituted the system.

In the entire history of the country, the totals of the popular vote have ALWAYS been nothing more than a meaningless statistical curiosity.

What is is, is that over time, a bunch of politically uneducated fools have continued to bleat about "Our Democracy". As we've ALWAYS been a Federal Republic, this basically comes under the purview of "If you repeat a lie often enough, some dummy will eventually believe it."

If you REALLY think that what the country needs is a dose of mob rule, and you think you can pull it off:

  1. Assemble a Constitutional Convention.
  2. Have both houses of Congress amend the Constitution to kill the EC.
  3. Get it ratified by 3/4th of the states in The Union.
Simple right?

Of course it isn't. But trying to accomplish it any other way is going to leave it open to challenge in the courts. And it won't stand up, even with the most liberal, sympathetic judge.

Well, got some work to do don't ya?
 
I don't even live in the US ... so I didn't lose control of anything. Your country can keep the Trump "utopia" you have created ... the rest of the word will continue to sit back and laugh as your country destroys itself.

Well, it's going to take a lot more than 4-8 years to reduce the US to the shithole levels of most of the rest of the world.

So, laugh away, knowing that bums on our streets still enjoy a higher standard of living that 99% of the planet.
 
Photo ID is free in every state. Poll tax is irrelevant in this discussion despite the ACLU claiming otherwise. The Photo ID at the DMV that you pay for is for your Driver's License. Different thing. Otherwise, you can fill out a provisional ballot that has to be verified after the fact.

Actually this isn't true. Illinois has no provisions for "free ID".

A state ID is inexpensive ($20), but this could still be something of an impediment to the poorest of us. Especially since you need OTHER forms of identification (birth certificate, etc) as well to get it issued.

Still, considering that you require at LEAST a state ID in Illinois to collect any sort of social services...
 
Sure, the purpose of the electoral college, along with the 3/5 rule, was to give the slave states, with their lower populations, a more powerful footing in the election process than their population would otherwise earn. Generally speaking, it was created to help keep the elites in power and separate from the mass population.

State's rights were diminished in 1865 - things changed quite a bit from independence and the merging of the states to 1865, and things have changed even more now.

The 3/5's compromise was to LIMIT the power of the slave states. Slaves (color is not mentioned in the Constitution) were still Americans and they were still affected by laws made in this country. They deserved representation (and this was the start to abolishing slavery). Thus the federal level had to acknowledge them in some way. The northern states were arguing that they don't agree with slavery, thus slaves (people) should have no impact on the policies of the country. Southern states were pro slavery and believed those people represented head count, IF aspects of the government were going to be based on the head count of a state.

The thesis that the 3/5's compromise was hurtful to slaves because it said a slave (not a black person) was only 60% of a person is a faulted thesis. It ignores the alternative that the north just didn't want them counted at all...thus making them a 0% person.

In hindsight bondage is a terrible thing, but it was legal and was culturally acceptable. Fixing THAT was the solution, not taking away the rights of the people in order to circumvent an issue.
 
Bill Gates didn't see to have any issues with the man this week.

Trump is being a genius here. He's bringing in all the people that are likely to be on the side of his protractors and he's offering the olive branch. It then puts it in their court to say something negative, but in a direct manner. They can't say vague things, because it was a conversation directly between them....so they can't twist the interpretation without risking a direct argument with Trump.




He talking to Jeff Bezos for crying out loud. A man who tried desperately to destroy Donald Trump. And here's your olive branch. Where's that thin skin????

 
Wait, so you're saying there's 93 million unemployed people? Not quite: http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-m...-million-americans-not-working-or-looking-wo/

And that crap is 3 years old and STILL floating around as a "fact"

Honestly, you can't argue facts anymore. If I have learned one thing this election cycle, is that facts don't matter. You can say anything or spout any number, and people will just repeat it. You can't tell people things are going to be worse/better, because they have been told differently. It is impossible to even have a civil discussion anymore. I honestly think that politics and entertainment have merged together. There is no going back. People who believe that more than a 1/3 of the country is on welfare and out of work because of an onion article, or the constant yelling that the climate is not heating up and its a scam from skepticalscience.com run by semiconductor manufacturers.... it goes on, there is no middle ground. Even if you wanted to come and try to discuss things in a civil manner you will get gang raped by diaper wearing gorillas wearing masks of mother Theresa....So don't waste your time feeding it.
 
And that dictionary will say what? He's correct, this is a Republic rather than a Democracy. To be more specific, a Federal Republic.

Honestly, I think it is moving from Federal Republic to Plutocracy....
 
It's not that we're all Trump supporters, some of us aren't. I think it's just because we as Americans are tired of the BS. Will Trump fix everything? No. But we're certainly better off with Trump than we would be with the Clintons & her cronies.
I would have expected more of the same with Clinton, which generally speaking wouldn't have been bad. Continued continuous economic growth (even at a low rate) with low inflation would have been fine. Now we have a big 'ol question mark on a whole host of issues from International items (Trade, Russian and other diplomacy, etc), to healthcare (do we really want to remove healthcare from millions of americans? Do we really want to allow preexisting conditions to come back as an option to insurance companies? etc) to civil rights. Additionally, with Trump, I worry we will lose forward progress on Net Neutrality, Digital rights, and encryption. There are also plenty of concerning things about cabinet selections - dept of labor selection who doesn't like human labor? Dept of education selection who never attended public school, never sent her children to public school, and has outstanding campaign financing violations / fines? EPA selection who doesn't think the EPA should even exist? Its sounding rather Orwellian - all we need is the 15 minute hate... err, wait we had that already against Hillary...
 
There are also plenty of concerning things about cabinet selections - dept of labor selection who doesn't like human labor? Dept of education selection who never attended public school, never sent her children to public school, and has outstanding campaign financing violations / fines? EPA selection who doesn't think the EPA should even exist?

Having people in key positions of the government who are leery of the government. Is that better or worse then someone who believes that more regulations are key to a better society? There is no wrong answer. I side with having someone question the government is better.
 
It's been pretty weird watching the winners of the election be so angry about election fraud and questioning the legitimacy of the election they just won. And they're still all dark and gloomy and mad... like they don't know how to behave when things are going their way. You've won all three branches of government, and you can do what you want now - so why are you so unhappy?

There are no winners and it doesn't matter who got elected. The government will continue to cater to special interest groups, flip-flop on issues, waste tons of money, and keep expanding its powers. And when something goes wrong, both sides point fingers at each other.
 
Yeah... sure. Like in Wisconsin where you can get your free ID 4 days a year (5th wednesday), between 10am and 4pm. You know, when people are at work. Sure, there are more offices in the larger metro areas, such as Madison and Milwaukee, but now you're taxing people with travel.

For real, true free photo ID, it better be available with no more than 5 miles of travel and available to get 7 days a week between 8am and 8pm.

None the less, why require photo ID at all?
Pretty obvious people like fraudulant voting when it helps them.
http://www.detroitnews.com/story/ne...cords-many-votes-detroits-precincts/95363314/
Voting machines in more than one-third of all Detroit precincts registered more votes than they should have during last month’s presidential election, according to Wayne County records prepared at the request of The Detroit News.
I'm tired of the round & round on the topic, some people just want the cheating to continue, some don't. Let's get over the pretense.
 
Pretty obvious people like fraudulant voting when it helps them.
http://www.detroitnews.com/story/ne...cords-many-votes-detroits-precincts/95363314/
I'm tired of the round & round on the topic, some people just want the cheating to continue, some don't. Let's get over the pretense.
Last week, Baxter told The News 87 optical scanners broke on Election Day. He said many jammed when voters tried repeatedly to stuff single ballots into scanners, which can result in erroneous vote counts if poll workers don’t adjust counters.
Sounds like they just have shitty equipment. Also, who gains when a large chunk of votes in Detroit, "where discrepancies meant officials couldn’t recount votes in 392 precincts, or nearly 60 percent. And two-thirds of those precincts had too many votes."

This stuff isn't as black and white as people want to believe.
 
I like to think we're more skeptical than the average group of individuals. There are all sorts of bs claims made by people of all backgrounds and it does nobody any favors for us to just take them at face value. Just accepting bs science is why we've had subsidies enforcing ethanol in our gasoline for a couple decades now when it is known to be a net loss in efficiency - as in 10% ethanol results in 10% less mpg.

TBH, from my understanding, the reason that ethanol was used in gasoline was to keep the corn market viable in the Midwest, which is why ethanol is a hot-button topic in Iowa, amongst other places.
 
TBH, from my understanding, the reason that ethanol was used in gasoline was to keep the corn market viable in the Midwest, which is why ethanol is a hot-button topic in Iowa, amongst other places.
For 20 years though?!
 
Hahaha, oh the irony.

I'm afraid it is you, good sir, who needs the education!

And that dictionary will say what? He's correct, this is a Republic rather than a Democracy. To be more specific, a Federal Republic.

Sure thing, Sing this every once in awhile.

"I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands, one Nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."

Legally and officially, the US is a republic; Article IV of the Constitution "guarantee(s) to every State in this Union a Republican form of Government."

Realistically, the US is a procedurally democratic civil oligarchy. This has not changed with the election of Trump, who is himself the very definition of an oligarch, and who has just nominated the wealthiest cabinet in US history.
You people are not smart. Never once did I say it's not a republic. I said, go find a dictionary and educate yourselves. Had you fucking done that, you would see that the relatively small distinctions between the definitions of the two words make it pretty clear they aren't really mutually exclusive. Also, it just rings of elementary school arguments when you keep insisting something that doesn't really make a difference either way. Okay, we're a Republic! Ya got me! how does that change any argument anyone has ever made about the US as a democracy? It's just a bullshit way you people like to change the conversation.

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Here I'll make it even easier for you.

http://www.williampmeyers.org/republic.html
 
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All I know about this election is it's Republican everything. If they push through everything they've been saying they want to push though, I'll be dead before the 2020 election.

I guess it's great for business, but if you're disabled like me, good fucking luck with the likes of Ben Carson running the program that keeps me from being homeless.

I tweeted him nicely to just ask if he'd just not allow programs I rely on to survive to be cut from existence, and even though he tweets like crazy he completely ignored me. All of this after making fun of disabled people during his campaign.

There is a hell of a lot more to all of this than just making CEOs fabulously wealthy.
 
Wait, so you're saying there's 93 million unemployed people? Not quite: http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-m...-million-americans-not-working-or-looking-wo/

And that crap is 3 years old and STILL floating around as a "fact"
Let's take a look at the census numbers.

July 2015 Statistics
Population < 16 yo = 62,092,341
Population > 65 yo = 47,891,404

Majority population "able" to work = 211,435,075 (321,418,820 - above)
BLS Labor Force as of July 2015 = 157,115,000

Estimated population not working = 54,320,075

Not near either Politi"fact"s 20 million or the raw BLS number of 93 million.

More to the point, neither my analysis or Politifact's numbers are accurate (though I would argue that I'm closer to the truth than Politifact since they're making too many broad assumptions). BLS has a set definition of who is able to work, and that is what the statistics show. Who cares if a college student forgoes work to focus on their studies, or if a 70 yo person is comfortably retired. They can still participate in the labor force and that is all that matters in the scope of the BLS metric.

The "Not in Labor Force" statistic from BLS is up to 95,055,000 for November 2016, by the way.
 
Let's take a look at the census numbers.

July 2015 Statistics
Population < 16 yo = 62,092,341
Population > 65 yo = 47,891,404

Majority population "able" to work = 211,435,075 (321,418,820 - above)
BLS Labor Force as of July 2015 = 157,115,000

Estimated population not working = 54,320,075

Not near either Politi"fact"s 20 million or the raw BLS number of 93 million.

More to the point, neither my analysis or Politifact's numbers are accurate (though I would argue that I'm closer to the truth than Politifact since they're making too many broad assumptions). BLS has a set definition of who is able to work, and that is what the statistics show. Who cares if a college student forgoes work to focus on their studies, or if a 70 yo person is comfortably retired. They can still participate in the labor force and that is all that matters in the scope of the BLS metric.

The "Not in Labor Force" statistic from BLS is up to 95,055,000 for November 2016, by the way.

I think you can read these numbers in a lot of different ways, and I also know you can't make a lot of direct comparisons without using the same data over multiple years. The point for this was to compare the rates of unemployed people. Generally that means people who CAN work, and WANT to work, but can't find a job due to the market/economy/politics/whatever. The BLS numbers include a whole lot of people not in that group, and the Politifact article tried to explain why the raw BLS numbers weren't a good source for political debate. Just as an example, if someone is complaining that unemployment is too high, they should NOT be counting full-time college students and retirees in their numbers, since those people may be capable of work, but they chose not to work. Conversely, if you're trying to brag about how you've improved unemployment rates, you should use the exact same statistics and groups across multiple years to make those claim, and make sure you count all the people that graduated high school and just entered the workforce, and NOT count the people that just retired.

Without bringing political party into this, I do think it's important to be accurate when discussing those figures. If you blindly claim that there's 93-95 million "unemployed" people in the US, that's a nearly 45% unemployment rate. Or roughly every other person you meet is without a job. Clearly that can't be true, that would make our unemployment one of the worst in the entire world. Even the numbers you listed above, with 54million "not working" out of "211million" able to work is nearly 25% unemployment. Something isn't right with the numbers, but I think Politifact has something closer to the truth.
 
I don't even live in the US ... so I didn't lose control of anything. Your country can keep the Trump "utopia" you have created ... the rest of the word will continue to sit back and laugh as your country destroys itself.
I assure you, you don't speak on behalf of the world.

There is a cultural change coming, and I surmise that your interest in US politics fears that change, because a successful and prosperous United States now is a banner behind which others can rally and just like Brexit say "See, the liberal media lied to you".

Speaking of, Brexit and Nigel "Can't Barage" Farage rocketing popularity despite a total media misinformation propaganda campaign against them, and the rise of the AfD in Germany which would already be in power were it not for the weird green-party alliance, and the people rallying behind Marine Le Pen who people are calling "Le' French Donald Trump" is evidence of this backlash against globalization race towards the bottom, and the thought-policing of Merkel and her kind of globalist elitists that are trying to create a new Western block with themselves at the head.

Ultra-liberalism, the great migration of men that multi-nationals move around and exploit like pawns, multiculturalism, and thought policing, with this divide and conquer identity politics where its everyone against everyone with the destruction of the tribalism that kept us united as a team working together and moving forward with a shared belief system and values, is something that the people are seeing as toxic and are rejecting.

The irony that you consider those that wish to protect nationhood as "self-destructive" surely can't be lost on you, no?
 
Actually this isn't true. Illinois has no provisions for "free ID".

A state ID is inexpensive ($20), but this could still be something of an impediment to the poorest of us. Especially since you need OTHER forms of identification (birth certificate, etc) as well to get it issued.

Still, considering that you require at LEAST a state ID in Illinois to collect any sort of social services...
There are alternatives like the Public assistance ID card or Illinois Link Card that is accepted at the ballot office. As usual there are options for these people in poverty.
 
You people are not smart. Never once did I say it's not a republic. I said, go find a dictionary and educate yourselves. Had you fucking done that, you would see that the relatively small distinctions between the definitions of the two words make it pretty clear they aren't really mutually exclusive. Also, it just rings of elementary school arguments when you keep insisting something that doesn't really make a difference either way. Okay, we're a Republic! Ya got me! how does that change any argument anyone has ever made about the US as a democracy? It's just a bullshit way you people like to change the conversation.

edit:
Here I'll make it even easier for you.

http://www.williampmeyers.org/republic.html
Again, I don't need to get a dictionary because I'm already aware of the difference between a Democracy and a Repuiblic. But nope, instead you chose to go ahead and insult me. No one cares about your juvenile insult about "Get a dictionary" because there wasn't any need to. You never made your point on why we should get a dictionary but nope you chose to obfuscate and insult people.
 
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