Sennheiser gaming Amp

It's unfortunate it does not also work with consoles but it's got some nice features. It's 7.1 virtualization has received some fairly decent reviews online. I'm wondering how it compares to the more expensive X7; if it's at all comparable in audio quality then it's a decent competitor for the PC desk.
 
Interesting. Wish they went all out and provided EAX support along with the 7.1 virtual sound.
 
I recently fot the GSX 1000 and have been using it with My HD650s for a few days.
I also own a Creative X7.

The virtual surround sound is excellent and better then the X7. General audio fidelity is worse though. It would probably fare better with lower impedance headphones.

Gaming on the gsx 1000 is just sooo immersive though. Alien: isolation scares the crap out of me and the Division sounds absolutely amazing.

So the Sennheiser stays!
 
The GSX 100 is almost the same cost as the Schiit Audio entry stack, which is known for its great sound quality. I would rather have the Schiit Audio stack due to its looks and greater power for higher impedance headphones, however it does not have the 7.1 support the GSX 1000 has. Is there not a software option to mimic directional audio, so I can then get the more powerful Schiit Audio stack, then pair the two things together?

*http://me.ign.com/en/sennheiser-gsx...ew/sennheiser-gsx-1000-audio-amplifier-review
 
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The X7 had a recent firmware update enabling its 5.1 via its line out, perhaps Sennheiser can offer the same additional feature in the future.
 
Not entirely sure why you'd want the extra processing- it should really only be helpful for games/other applications that have terribad HRTF implementations, and those are pretty rare.

I'll be sticking to my O2/ODAC and HD600 setup.

Edit: only up to 150Ohm support on that GSX 1000? For US$229 retail, seriously?
 
Do a lot of games offer their own surround virtualization? I thought they didn't.
 
illram said:
Do a lot of games offer their own surround virtualization? I thought they didn't.
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Don't think about 'a lot of games', think about the ones you play. For the ones I play, they *do*, for example, every Battlefield game since Bad Company 2 (at least). Overwatch has some Dolby stuff. That's what I remember off the top of my head, but I can also say that I haven't been disappointed by the positional output of any game in the last five years at least.
 
BF1 & Overwatch have their own virtualized surround sound engine? That's cool. I was under the impression that it was very rare for games to offer their own HRTF solutions. The last two PC games I played heavily--Witcher 3 and Fallout 4--didn't offer that, as far as I can tell. I can't remember any game that has, actually. So going forward I didn't really consider the possibility that games would begin offering their own out of the box solutions. If that trend is changing that's great.
 
illram said:
BF1 & Overwatch have their own virtualized surround sound engine? That's cool. I was under the impression that it was very rare for games to offer their own HRTF solutions. The last two PC games I played heavily--Witcher 3 and Fallout 4--didn't offer that, as far as I can tell. I can't remember any game that has, actually. So going forward I didn't really consider the possibility that games would begin offering their own out of the box solutions. If that trend is changing that's great.
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Yes, they both do. How well it works for how you play may differ; DICE's implementations are top-notch, while others may be less so.
 
Personally for good headphone virtualization I recommend Waves Nx combined with their head tracker. Head tracking really is more than half the battle in getting truly accurate headphone virtualization and Waves' stuff works pretty well. It isn't going to get me to sell off my surround sound setup, but I find it an acceptable alternative when I need things to be quiet. Also being software it works with existing soundcard/amp setups. I highly recommends to anyone who does headphone gaming.
 
If it's not powerful enough for HD650 it is not much of an amp, IMO. Sennheiser makes an amp that can't even power their own headphones = fail.

Last headphone amp I bought had 200mw and could drive any headphone, that cost me $200 and it was a tube amp. But I traded that off because I didn't need it because I have found using a receiver is more convenient for me and can drive any headphone too.
 
Sycraft said:
Personally for good headphone virtualization I recommend Waves Nx combined with their head tracker. Head tracking really is more than half the battle in getting truly accurate headphone virtualization and Waves' stuff works pretty well. It isn't going to get me to sell off my surround sound setup, but I find it an acceptable alternative when I need things to be quiet. Also being software it works with existing soundcard/amp setups. I highly recommends to anyone who does headphone gaming.
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Oooh that does look cool. How does it fare without the head tracker thingy?
 
If you want to try it without the headtracker you can do so for free, they'll send you a download to a 30 day trial of the software for the asking on the Nx page. Without the headtracking it is still one of the very best HRTF models I've heard, but like all non-tracking models, I find it isn't super convincing. Only when I engage the tracker can it really fool me in to thinking it is speakers and not headphones. With the headtracker it is good enough that a few times I took my headphones off to make sure my speakers weren't engaged. It isn't 100% perfect, but close. Also I have pretty high standards, since I game on a high end home theater 7.1 setup.

So go get the free demo and if you think it sounds interesting, then I'd recommend getting the tracker for it. I think it can work with a webcam too, but that takes more CPU and doesn't track as well.
 
Yes head tracking is essential for head-fi because the brain relies on micromotion of head to create the spatial illusion. If that motion does not exist (with the headphones glued to your head while listening) the space illusion breaks and you get that dreaded 'in your head' sound effect.
 
Gatecrasher3000 said:
The GSX 100 is almost the same cost as the Schiit Audio entry stack, which is known for its great sound quality. I would rather have the Schiit Audio stack due to its looks and greater power for higher impedance headphones, however it does not have the 7.1 support the GSX 1000 has. Is there not a software option to mimic directional audio, so I can then get the more powerful Schiit Audio stack, then pair the two things together?

*http://me.ign.com/en/sennheiser-gsx...ew/sennheiser-gsx-1000-audio-amplifier-review
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You can "sortof" get the best of both worlds by getting an internal sound card that does multi-channel emulation, and has an optical out, and feed it into an external DAC with an optical input (like the Schiit Modi 2 Uber). This way you get the multichannel emulation but bypass the internal soundcards DAC< and use the superior Schiit stack.
 
Sycraft said:
Personally for good headphone virtualization I recommend Waves Nx combined with their head tracker. Head tracking really is more than half the battle in getting truly accurate headphone virtualization and Waves' stuff works pretty well. It isn't going to get me to sell off my surround sound setup, but I find it an acceptable alternative when I need things to be quiet. Also being software it works with existing soundcard/amp setups. I highly recommends to anyone who does headphone gaming.
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Even with such head tracker setup (Creative BlasterX Senz3D and Nx Head Tracker), is either benefit to have a Sound Blaster Z using SBX audio for headphones and speaker, or, sound quality wise is much better to keep onboard sound card with an external amd/dac/pre through TOSLink?

In other words, which would be the Holy grail in terms gaming audio with headphones? I was thinking of onboard audio, Audio-GD NFB-11 (because of swithing between speakers and headphones, inner power supply, good specs and optical input), AKG K712 Pro headphones (light weight, that is, long time comfy) and a pair of Genelec M040 studio monitors. What do you, b00nie and friends else think of?
 
Dunno. I'm happy with my HD600 O2/ODAC setup; though for gaming alone the HD600s and necessary amp are overkill.

I will say that I tried the Waves Nx stuff, and I couldn't really hear a difference in say BF1 or The Witcher 3, the two games I've been playing lately.
 
lb_felipe said:
Have you tried Nx Head Tracker? Or did you try just software with webcam?
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Just the bare software. If the point is to add headtracking to what games already do, I could give a rats; but given that it's free to try, figured it was worth a shot to see if it did a better job than the 'headphone' setting in most games. I *could* be using it wrong/have it misconfigured, but there's not a whole lot of options in there.
 
Sycraft said:
If you want to try it without the headtracker you can do so for free, they'll send you a download to a 30 day trial of the software for the asking on the Nx page. Without the headtracking it is still one of the very best HRTF models I've heard, but like all non-tracking models, I find it isn't super convincing. Only when I engage the tracker can it really fool me in to thinking it is speakers and not headphones. With the headtracker it is good enough that a few times I took my headphones off to make sure my speakers weren't engaged. It isn't 100% perfect, but close. Also I have pretty high standards, since I game on a high end home theater 7.1 setup.

So go get the free demo and if you think it sounds interesting, then I'd recommend getting the tracker for it. I think it can work with a webcam too, but that takes more CPU and doesn't track as well.
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That is interesting.

I've never used (or even heard of) head trackers before. ( I'm not sure why they would be needed. Aren't we looking straight at our screens as we play anyway?)

I've always found headphone positional audio (without head tracking) to be far far superior to any speaker setup I've ever heard...
 
Zarathustra[H] said:
That is interesting.

I've never used (or even heard of) head trackers before. ( I'm not sure why they would be needed. Aren't we looking straight at our screens as we play anyway?)

I've always found headphone positional audio (without head tracking) to be far far superior to any speaker setup I've ever heard...
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Head tracking is necessary to give you an illusion of space and frontal direction. Any old head tracker won't do though, it needs to be precise and fast responding.
 
B00nie said:
Head tracking is necessary to give you an illusion of space and frontal direction. Any old head tracker won't do though, it needs to be precise and fast responding.
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You keep saying that, but I've never had a problem without it :p
 
Zarathustra[H] said:
You keep saying that, but I've never had a problem without it :p
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Are you claiming that when you listen with headphones you don't get the 'sound inside the head' effect? If so, you're a scientific anomaly. You get life like stereo imaging like you were listening to a good stereo set when you have a good head tracker + software.
 
B00nie said:
Are you claiming that when you listen with headphones you don't get the 'sound inside the head' effect? If so, you're a scientific anomaly. You get life like stereo imaging like you were listening to a good stereo set when you have a good head tracker + software.
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I'm not sure what you mean when you say "sound inside head" effect.

What I do mean is, I have speakers and I have headphones. Usually with headphones I can pinpoint sound direction, but with speakers I find it very very difficult, which is why I never play games with speakers.
 
Zarathustra[H] said:
I'm not sure what you mean when you say "sound inside head" effect.

What I do mean is, I have speakers and I have headphones. Usually with headphones I can pinpoint sound direction, but with speakers I find it very very difficult, which is why I never play games with speakers.
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Then you don't understand what we're talking about here. With non-tracked headphone listening you don't get a natural sound stage like you do with good speakers (stress on good). Sounds arriving from the front do not seem to come from front but appear to sound between your ears.

Gimmick DSP effects do work even without tracking but not for the frontal section. The brain relies on small head movements to compute slight changes in amplitude and phase into accurate sound direction. DSP effects mimic the effect for rear sounds but they can't mimic the frontal section because that is linked to your eyes and head position.
 
B00nie said:
Then you don't understand what we're talking about here. With non-tracked headphone listening you don't get a natural sound stage like you do with good speakers (stress on good). Sounds arriving from the front do not seem to come from front but appear to sound between your ears.

Gimmick DSP effects do work even without tracking but not for the frontal section. The brain relies on small head movements to compute slight changes in amplitude and phase into accurate sound direction. DSP effects mimic the effect for rear sounds but they can't mimic the frontal section because that is linked to your eyes and head position.
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Well, all I can say is, I've never used anything head tracking and I can tell perfectly well when sounds come fromthe front in games.

But I've been using nothing but headphones for gaming for at least 20 years, only occasionally using speakers and finding them awful and switching back, so maybe I've trained my brain?
 
Zarathustra[H] said:
Well, all I can say is, I've never used anything head tracking and I can tell perfectly well when sounds come fromthe front in games.

But I've been using nothing but headphones for gaming for at least 20 years, only occasionally using speakers and finding them awful and switching back, so maybe I've trained my brain?
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Most likely you've just got used to 'front' being something vague instead of hearing it 'front' like you do when living in real life. Also if you haven't done serious speaker listening you lack a proper comparison to what can be achieved with them. I'm not talking about games and effects here anymore but stereo audio.
 
B00nie said:
Most likely you've just got used to 'front' being something vague instead of hearing it 'front' like you do when living in real life. Also if you haven't done serious speaker listening you lack a proper comparison to what can be achieved with them. I'm not talking about games and effects here anymore but stereo audio.
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Honestly, I just don't like speakers.

I've heard some supposedly good ones, but still didn't care for them.

To me, the pinnacle of good audio is in good headphones paired with good headphone amps and DAC's.
 
Zarathustra[H] said:
Honestly, I just don't like speakers.

I've heard some supposedly good ones, but still didn't care for them.

To me, the pinnacle of good audio is in good headphones paired with good headphone amps and DAC's.
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Shows how different audio can be for two persons. Last year I tried a very high end electrostatic headphones at the Munich High-End expo and I was like meh. They just can't give you that illusion of space and slam to the body like good speakers can.
 
B00nie said:
Shows how different audio can be for two persons. Last year I tried a very high end electrostatic headphones at the Munich High-End expo and I was like meh. They just can't give you that illusion of space and slam to the body like good speakers can.
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Yep.

It's great we all have options to choose what we like the best :p

Still though, I find it highly annoying when someone plays games with speakers and there is feedback or echoes over their mic.
 
Zarathustra[H] said:
Yep.

It's great we all have options to choose what we like the best :p

Still though, I find it highly annoying when someone plays games with speakers and there is feedback or echoes over their mic.
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For games I also use headphones only. But for music I can't even imagine wearing headphones, speakers are the way to go.
 
Zarathustra[H] said:
That is interesting.

I've never used (or even heard of) head trackers before. ( I'm not sure why they would be needed. Aren't we looking straight at our screens as we play anyway?)

I've always found headphone positional audio (without head tracking) to be far far superior to any speaker setup I've ever heard...
Click to expand...

There aren't many out there, they have been a very high end product, until now. The reason they are needed is your body is aware of how your head moves and expects sound to stay stationary relative to that. If it doesn't your brain says "that's wrong". So to really fool you in to thinking you are hearing sound coming from sources outside you head, you need headtracking so the relative soundfield stays stable. Relating it to a monitor you can think of how it would look odd if you strapped a monitor to your face so that its relative position to your eyes stayed constant, even when you turned your head. That's what happens with headphones without headtracking.

Personally I don't like gaming on headphones. I did it for years but ever since getting a good surround sound setup, it just can't compare for me. However with Nx, I find that it is competitive. Not as good, but getting close and can fool me sometimes. The system I am comparing it to is a 7.1 setup of SVS MTS/MBS/MCS speakers carefully aligned to the correct angles (basically ever 45 degrees) and then driven by an Emotiva XMC-1 which uses Dirac Live room correction to improve sound. The room is also semi-acoustically treated to help with sound quality. So I have a reasonably high standard that I expect it to live up to. As I said, it doesn't quite match the speaker system, but it comes close. It also might do better with better headphones, I currently use Denon AH-D2000 which are good, but not phenomenal and not in the same price class as the speakers.

The two things that impressed me about Nx the most is first its ability to make me really believe sound is coming from behind me. Like it really can give me the same effect as my speakers do for sound form the rear. The other is the ability to fool me in to thinking sound is coming from a front speaker on certain sounds. It can't do it for everything, but for some things its HRTF is so convincing it really does have my brain convinced the speaker is the source of the sound. I look right at it and it sounds like the speaker is making noise.

The areas it falls down on are imaging and localization of high frequency sounds. High frequency, non harmonic, sound like cymbals seem to fall back in my head more than they do with actual speakers. Mid range sounds do much better. Also the imaging just can't match what my speakers do, at least with Dirac engaged. With Dirac on, they are a solid wall of sound that is extremely convincing. Nx doesn't quite match that. With Dirac disengaged the speakers sound closer to the imaging I get out of Nx which isn't bad, but just not as totally solid.

Either way, I like it and use it if I need to be quiet when playing games or playing with pro audio (I have the VST version of Nx as well).
 
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