The GPU War is Over - AdoredTV

6 months ago this guy was saying "The GPU War Is Over" because AMD was going to win decidedly. Remember AMD was supposed to target the mid-range with their RX 480 which performed like a Fury X for a flat $200 and beat Nvidia in DX12? The GTX 1060 wasn't supposed to be out until Christmas? AMD was supposed to hit 40%+ marketshare by the end of 2016? What happened to all of that?

Anyway, to summarize this 30 minute video in one sentence: Even though AMD offers superior products in most tiers, people buy Nvidia anyway thanks to brand recognition. Something that most of us have known for years now.

AdoredTV should make an apology video about all the BS hype and misinformation he spewed to get easy ad revenue clicks from places like /r/AMD, and then he should close his channel and disappear. /r/hardware is already having a discussion over banning his YouTube channel from the subreddit, lol.

I wonder how many more times AdoredTV has to prove his ignorance before people will ignore him. Or at the very least treat him with the same amount of skepticism as clickbait sites like WCCFTech, because that is what he amounts to.
 
This guy still makes videos? I thought he 'quit' after the disappointment that was the 480 launched?
 
I usually think his videos are hopeful for amd, but this was actually a good video overall. he is right, I saw a guy the other day grab a gtx 960 from best buy for the same fuckin price he could have bought the rx 470 almost. I was like wtf is this.

People really buy brand they don't buy product. Nvidia is like apple of graphics, no matter what they will sell now.

reminds of HTC, no matter how good of a product they make they lost their popularity and they keep suffering.
 
He shows sales numbers in this video. The argument made is that even if AMD was or is faster Nvidia still keeps selling cards more then AMD does AMD ends up "losing" anyway which way you turn.

No matter what the reality of the situation is the steam numbers he uses will show that Nvidia sells a lot more and proves this by profits. Even shows a card that was behind for 14 months by Nvidia still sold more then the "better" AMD card that was ahead for more then a year.

This also confirms that AMD has piss poor marketing department and if you view the steam numbers for RX 480 it is still not good.
 
NKD said:
I usually think his videos are hopeful for amd, but this was actually a good video overall. he is right, I saw a guy the other day grab a gtx 960 from best buy for the same fuckin price he could have bought the rx 470 almost. I was like wtf is this.

People really buy brand they don't buy product. Nvidia is like apple of graphics, no matter what they will sell now.

reminds of HTC, no matter how good of a product they make they lost their popularity and they keep suffering.
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I would not shop there for Nvidia cards then.
Over here in UK where you can still get a 960 (nice custom 4GB MSI model) it is over 40% cheaper than the cheapest 470 that is out of stock.
Tough call what to do if someone is on a really tight budget IMO, the 460 or 1050ti sort of not a given at their prices, but if ones budget is that tight no guarantee they can even use such a 960 with their PSU.
Cheers
 
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CSI_PC said:
I would not shop there for Nvidia cards then.
Over here in UK where you can still get a 960 (nice custom 4GB MSI model) it is over 40% cheaper than the cheapest 470 that is out of stock.
Tough call what to do if someone is on a really tight budget IMO, the 460 or 1050ti sort of not a given at their prices, but if ones budget is that tight no guarantee they can even use such a 960 with their PSU.
Cheers
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But that does not guarantee the outcome. Had the 470 been available would they still have bought it? I say the likelihood is 30% for AMD and 70% for Nvidia. This has been proven for years. Even look here in the posts of the last 3 generations: the 7970 was the absolute king and still did not out sell the 680 and that was over 2 years. After that it was a bit too close to call for top tier but last gen only the 980Ti was the better buy on the Nvidia front, excluding PCI powered cards. We have seen over and over that from the top tier down AMD tends to be the better performer yet looking at the sales numbers Nvidia tends to win out 3-1. Part of that in my experience in the US was that Nvidia had way more shelf space and they actually had new cards in brick and mortar stores. Only recently in every BestBuy I have been to did they finally show having Cards like the 390X and now the 480/470. Before it was choices like the 7700 and eventually the 7870(or 270X) against the likes of the 680 and then 780. You had no choice if you were just popping in for that quick buy. It isn't just the consumers stuck in that mindset it is the purchasers for sales that perpetuate the same.

So at best I think we could see 35% AMD 65% Nvidia even if AMD was the performance leader by 30%.
 
I don't watch that crap but pretty sure I figured this out when the Titan XP OC was twice as fast than the Fury X, AMD's fastest card.
 
JustReason said:
Read about the 7970 above.
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GTX680 was faster at release than the HD7970 and 50$ cheaper. Yet the 7970 still ended up selling somewhat similar to the 680.

perfdollar.gif
 
Spoonie_G said:
Not true for the high-end. Folks are buying Nvidia now because the FuryX isn't cutting it right now.
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Exactly. The shift also happened with Maxwell because AMD forgot one of its previous mantras during the K8 days. Perf/watt. Then people can keep coming up with all kinds of excuses why. But there is a clear reason why and it isn't marketing or brand.
 
JustReason said:
But that does not guarantee the outcome. Had the 470 been available would they still have bought it? I say the likelihood is 30% for AMD and 70% for Nvidia. This has been proven for years. Even look here in the posts of the last 3 generations: the 7970 was the absolute king and still did not out sell the 680 and that was over 2 years. After that it was a bit too close to call for top tier but last gen only the 980Ti was the better buy on the Nvidia front, excluding PCI powered cards. We have seen over and over that from the top tier down AMD tends to be the better performer yet looking at the sales numbers Nvidia tends to win out 3-1. Part of that in my experience in the US was that Nvidia had way more shelf space and they actually had new cards in brick and mortar stores. Only recently in every BestBuy I have been to did they finally show having Cards like the 390X and now the 480/470. Before it was choices like the 7700 and eventually the 7870(or 270X) against the likes of the 680 and then 780. You had no choice if you were just popping in for that quick buy. It isn't just the consumers stuck in that mindset it is the purchasers for sales that perpetuate the same.

So at best I think we could see 35% AMD 65% Nvidia even if AMD was the performance leader by 30%.
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The last time AMD actually competed well against Nvidia with just over 40% AIB market was 2010,2012 and 2014 Q2 being close.
Whether rightly or wrongly, most of the market do want an efficient GPU with great performance, while also being quiet (which is why the blower version of Nvidia cards are more niche or for those that just for some reason will not wait for the custom models).
The share dominance happened because of 2nd gen Maxwell, and AMD are unfortunately still yet to respond strongly to this variable and factor, which IMO requires Vega sooner rather than later.

nvidia-market-share-q2-2015_large.png


The 970 and 980 launched Q3 2014, with good DX11 performance but importantly generally known for efficiency/quietness compared to AMD 290/290X (in reality these always ran in 'uber' mode if bought for gaming and comparing to the 970/980) - I agree some models of 2xx were okish sound wise but it was not across the whole IHV, same way there was some louder 970/980 cards but did not reflect the majority of custom ones.

You are right it does show that there is some consumer purchase decision weighted towards Nvidia over AMD, but it was not enough that it seriously impacted AMD unlike the development of Maxwell 2 and Pascal.
The 980ti launched in Q2 2015, when again we start to see an increase as it had those buying it along with strengthening the Maxwell 2 brand perception in general.
Cheers
 
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JustReason said:
But that does not guarantee the outcome. Had the 470 been available would they still have bought it? I say the likelihood is 30% for AMD and 70% for Nvidia. This has been proven for years. Even look here in the posts of the last 3 generations: the 7970 was the absolute king and still did not out sell the 680 and that was over 2 years. After that it was a bit too close to call for top tier but last gen only the 980Ti was the better buy on the Nvidia front, excluding PCI powered cards. We have seen over and over that from the top tier down AMD tends to be the better performer yet looking at the sales numbers Nvidia tends to win out 3-1. Part of that in my experience in the US was that Nvidia had way more shelf space and they actually had new cards in brick and mortar stores. Only recently in every BestBuy I have been to did they finally show having Cards like the 390X and now the 480/470. Before it was choices like the 7700 and eventually the 7870(or 270X) against the likes of the 680 and then 780. You had no choice if you were just popping in for that quick buy. It isn't just the consumers stuck in that mindset it is the purchasers for sales that perpetuate the same.

So at best I think we could see 35% AMD 65% Nvidia even if AMD was the performance leader by 30%.
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Well that is just not right look back to the when AMD good products, they took marketshare away from nV, they were up to 40% marketshare, another words they were selling well.

AdornedTV at it again, he didn't take into the fact that OEM is where bulk of the cards sales go, specially when talking about a three gens and more ago where Mid Range (200 bucks) were bulk of the sales. Again making overarching generalizations without understanding what he is talking about. If he looked into the break downs by JPR and Mercury instead of trying to decipher Steam numbers, Having 40% of the market by selling 5 million cards are year but barely making a profit, which is totally inaccurate, not sure how he came to that conclusion. This is because AMD according to their SEC filing and which quarter he was looking at (he should have been looking at Q4 2008 not Q1 2009 for the 48xx sales so he already made a mistake there and kept on going with it), doesn't add up to his conclusions.

Although nV has more mind share, this market is more fickle then what he has stated in his video.
 
Shintai said:
GTX680 was faster at release than the HD7970 and 50$ cheaper. Yet the 7970 still ended up selling somewhat similar to the 680.

perfdollar.gif
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Doesn't change the FACTS. The 7970 was and somewhat still is the king of that era/generation.
upload_2016-12-3_9-11-21.png


This was at stock (remember the 680 boosts which was unknown at release hence some of the hoopla) and using the original reference. Once AMD released the GE 7970s they were solidly on top and then considering OC to OC the 7970 still won out. It is the general concensus of the ones with adequate knowledge that the 7970 was and is one of the best GPUs around. But again as you said Nvidia still managed to out sell AMD here.
 
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JustReason said:
Doesn't change the FACTS. The 7970 was and somewhat still is the king of that era/generation.
View attachment 11695

This was at stock (remember the 680 boosts which was unknown at release hence some of the hoopla) and using the original reference. Once AMD released the GE 7970s they were solidly on top and then considering OC to OC the 7970 still won out. It is the general concensus of the ones with adequate knowledge that the 7970 was and is one of the best GPUs around. But again as you said Nvidia still managed to out sell AMD here.
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The hoopla was this

Nvidia-AMD.png


AMD gained marketshare with their 7xxx line initially for a quarter. Then after the introduction of the 6xx line lost some but only for a quarter then started gaining back. Unless we know the reason for the sudden drop of marketshare which most likely were price drops by nV (looking at their SEC filings at the time, margins dropped a little bit) Added to this the scarcity of getting the HD7xxx series was there too, remember the excuse of miners? The general conclusion you are making doesn't fit the picture.

This is why its important to understand where the numbers come from in the first place before you start making an analysis.:sneaky:
 
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JustReason said:
Doesn't change the FACTS. The 7970 was and somewhat still is the king of that era/generation.
View attachment 11695

This was at stock (remember the 680 boosts which was unknown at release hence some of the hoopla) and using the original reference. Once AMD released the GE 7970s they were solidly on top and then considering OC to OC the 7970 still won out. It is the general concensus of the ones with adequate knowledge that the 7970 was and is one of the best GPUs around. But again as you said Nvidia still managed to out sell AMD here.
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Your numbers only back up what I say. That the 7970 aged better due to no new architecture is another matter. But as such the 7970 sold more than it should vs the 680 that was cheaper and faster at the time. And that they ended up selling about the same in that period only tells you that there was no brand loyalty. If there was, you could say it was towards AMD.

Are you trying to base the 7970 vs 680 numbers out from their entire market shares? I sure hope not...
 
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Another big area Adorned missed were the time differences between graphic card launches between the IHV's, that has a huge impact on marketshare and potential profits, too many things he just overlooked.
 
Shintai said:
Your numbers only back up what I say. That the 7970 aged better due to no new architecture is another matter. But as such the 7970 sold more than it should vs the 680 that was cheaper and faster at the time. And that they ended up selling about the same in that period only tells you that there was no brand loyalty. If there was, you could say it was towards AMD.

Are you trying to base the 7970 vs 680 numbers out from their entire market shares? I sure hope not...
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It did not seem quicker to me back in the day. I remember buying a 7970 for the exact reasons hes talking about but during that time period. I bought one at launch for full MSRP actually. It was an amazing card and lasted so fucking long it was incredible. Much better than the 680 IMHO. Only fools coulda missed that then or now.
 
{NG}Fidel said:
It did not seem quicker to me back in the day. I remember buying a 7970 for the exact reasons hes talking about but during that time period. I bought one at launch for full MSRP actually. It was an amazing card and lasted so fucking long it was incredible. Much better than the 680 IMHO. Only fools coulda missed that then or now.
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I had a HD7950 that could OC to 1800 on the memory. I still have it sitting in the corner.
 
razor1 said:
Another big area Adorned missed were the time differences between graphic card launches between the IHV's, that has a huge impact on marketshare and potential profits, too many things he just overlooked.
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His overall conclusion was AMD never had a chance because of "mind share". He's probably right. Roy Taylor is fucking awful. I've been mislead enough by AMD - and held off on purchases based on their info - to only be massively let down. I hold that against them and won't look at them anytime soon.
 
{NG}Fidel said:
It did not seem quicker to me back in the day. I remember buying a 7970 for the exact reasons hes talking about but during that time period. I bought one at launch for full MSRP actually. It was an amazing card and lasted so fucking long it was incredible. Much better than the 680 IMHO. Only fools coulda missed that then or now.
Click to expand...


And that's why the 7xxx series did gain market share initially. But with availability and price it fell short soon after release, not till AMD did their price cuts and with the introduction of the GHZ edition to retain the performance crown did they start gaining again.
 
Dayaks said:
His overall conclusion was AMD never had a chance because of "mind share". He's probably right. Roy Taylor is fucking awful. I've been mislead enough by AMD - and held off on purchases based on their info - to only be massively let down. I hold that against them and won't look at them anytime soon.
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its not, never in the history of graphics cards has mind share dictated sales when one or the other IHV have had better products. That problem is marketing, mind share only work when you have close competing products. OEM's where more than 50% of cards are sold to, look into this too, they pick cards that will give them money front end (consumer interest) and back end less costs for them due to power usage, cooling etc.

Having stated that though bad marketing always affects sales, because it comes back as they are BS'ing, so yeah Roy and the bunch are hurting AMD.
 
{NG}Fidel said:
It did not seem quicker to me back in the day. I remember buying a 7970 for the exact reasons hes talking about but during that time period. I bought one at launch for full MSRP actually. It was an amazing card and lasted so fucking long it was incredible. Much better than the 680 IMHO. Only fools coulda missed that then or now.
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That AMD more or less stopped developments of their graphics architecture made GCN cards great for aging compared to earlier. Now today tho, even small changes seems to throw older GCN uarchs out the window. That's not the point of the argument tho.

However the fact of the day is, the 680 was 50$ cheaper and faster at release. And AMD sold quite well despite that fact to put it mildly. So people dont just blindly buy Nvidia. They tend to buy whats good no matter the brand. Despite what a few may think.
 
razor1 said:
its not, never in the history of graphics cards has mind share dictated sales when one or the other IHV have had better products. That problem is marketing, mind share only work when you have close competing products. OEM's where more than 50% of cards are sold to, look into this too, they pick cards that will give them money front end (consumer interest) and back end less costs for them due to power usage, cooling etc.

Having stated that though bad marketing always affects sales, because it comes back as they are BS'ing, so yeah Roy and the bunch are hurting AMD.
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Marketing doesn't really affect it either. People just miss the part where IHVs can dump in the OEM channels with crap to boost market share. Back then Nvidia was good at this, today its AMD being good at this.
 
I would say nV is still good at this, actually their products from previous gen are selling well because of new products pushing their image. But because nV has been much better at forecasting what is going on in the market, they have been better able to change their inventory levels, so they don't need to write down losses. I fully expect to see AMD take a write down in the next few quarters for their 3xx and Fiji line.....

This is what Adorned is totally missing, he is looking at net and gross profits, but how those numbers were reached is all accounting, he doesn't look into those things, nor are they visible at times, so without knowing some of those things, he shouldn't make a generalization such as mind share killed AMD.
 
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razor1 said:
I would say nV is till good at this, actually their products from previous gen are selling well because of new products pushing their image. But because nV has been much better at forecasting what is going on in the market, they have been better able to change their inventory levels, so they don't need to write down losses. I fully expect to see AMD take a write down in the next few quarters for their 3xx and Fiji line.....
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I doubt Fiji ever made money. And Vega can easily repeat that.

The 300 line however is the best as it can get. Rebranded free money on quite old products.
 
Shintai said:
I doubt Fiji ever made money. And Vega can easily repeat that.

The 300 line however is the best as it can get. Rebranded free money on quite old products.
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Fiji sells looks abysmal in the end while I do think the cards themselves do perform well. You know if AMD could actually get a card out that would have beat the 980Ti even if a little bit, I think the outcome would have been much different. At the top people want the top card is the plain simple truth. The 980ti stuffed the Fury line cold. Is the 980Ti performance greatly faster then the FuryX - not really. Even if AMD was able to get the Fury X slightly faster then the 980Ti Nvidia could easily released a faster version since it had great headroom. AMD could not win there. Maybe AMD has learned something - don't release a looser - it better be faster or so cheap that it will drive you out of business.
 
noko said:
Fiji sells looks abysmal in the end while I do think the cards themselves do perform well. You know if AMD could actually get a card out that would have beat the 980Ti even if a little bit, I think the outcome would have been much different. At the top people want the top card is the plain simple truth. The 980ti stuffed the Fury line cold. Is the 980Ti performance greatly faster then the FuryX - not really. Even if AMD was able to get the Fury X slightly faster then the 980Ti Nvidia could easily released a faster version since it had great headroom. AMD could not win there. Maybe AMD has learned something - don't release a looser - it better be faster or so cheap that it will drive you out of business.
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The AIO cooling would put quite a few off the FuryX, 4GB memory for a card that price put more off, then reports of the pump whine may had been the last straw, yeah they had the Fury but unfortunately as you say they needed the performance of the FuryX but more aligned with custom AIB and able to run well without AIO cooling.
The Fury was probably the best out of the bunch in general for interested gamers but price,memory, and performance (people really wanted FuryX level performance) would had been its downfall.
Cheers
 
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7970s were beasts! Had a ref @1.3Ghz core that wasn't much slower than a ref 290x with their overloaded cooling. Lasted so long, was barely surpassed by the next generation of cards in many cases.
 
Wasn't it the 7970s that made frame time measurement relevant? They were getting very high frame rates, but people were noticing that the gameplay experience, even at high frame rates, was poor.

Then we start seeing frame rating, and microstuttering from them that we weren't seeing from the 680s. In other words, those cards are the epitome of why average frame rates are unreliable metrics for gameplay experience.
 
razor1 said:
its not, never in the history of graphics cards has mind share dictated sales when one or the other IHV have had better products.
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I am not really sure why you would think this since mind share effects ever industry around. Sorry but, Nvidia often works on mind share, even if their particular card is better or not. Also, I agree with the person that spoke of the cards that were available on shelf at Best Buy and up until now, nothing really good was available. (Used to be you could get 4890's but that was then.)

Ever since the big box stores like Compusa went out of business, finding cards in a local store on shelves is difficult. I can walk in a buy a 1070 or 1080 right now, if I wanted too but I could never buy a Fury or Fury X, ever.
 
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