Just upgraded sound. Did I make any "pairing" mistakes?

Hey all,

So, for the longest time I've been using a first gen Schiit Asgard connected to the RCA outs of my Titanium HD, to amplify sound to my Beyerdynamic DT770 Pro 80Ω headphones.

I liked the combination, but after I put a water loop in my rig the pump made me notice the need for an external DAC.

So, being fond of Schiit since getting my first gen Asgard, I ordered a Modi 2 Multibit, and I was amazed with how well it sounded.

So, I've been bitten by the audio bug again.

I found a new home for my Asgard and my existing DT770's, and decided it was time for an upgrade. First I was thinking a mild upgrade to the Asgard 2 would be good, but it seemed like if I was going to upgrade to something I'm going to keep for a while, I should make it worth it.

So I have a Schiit Lyr 2 coming. I'm keeping the Modi 2 Multibit, as it is essentially sold as a smaller Bifrost Multibit without the upgradeability, and for the price difference I can just buy the next Modi rather than upgrading anyway.

My plan is to have two headphones. One set of closed cans for when things are noisy and one open set for when I have some peace and quiet, and can enjoy the larger soundstage.

So in summary:

X-Fi Titanium HD -> toslink optical cable -> Modi 2 Multibit -> Lyr 2 -> Sennheiser / Massdrop HD6XX or Beyerdynamic DT770 Pro 250Ω.

I decided to go with the DT770 Pro's (but the 250Ω model) because I really like the ones I have.

So, anything that stands out as just wrong above?

Not really, but I would have thought a Schitt Jotunheim might be better? I feel balanced headphone amplifiers with the ability to deliver four times the voltage should have very audible impacts on a high impedance headphone. I believe also the Jotuneheim was reviewed at sbaf several mentioned it was the best amp solid state amp section from Schitt many of heard while reviewing with 300ohm headphones, which I feel has everything to do with power delivery.

Of course if you are going Lyr 2 for the tube amp then that's something the Jotunheim can't really compete with since it's solid state, or if you don't already have balanced cables (in that case it's an extra expense).

pippenainteasy said:

Not really, but I would have thought a Schitt Jotunheim might be better? I feel balanced headphone amplifiers with the ability to deliver four times the voltage should have very audible impacts on a high impedance headphone. I believe also the Jotuneheim was reviewed at sbaf several mentioned it was the best amp solid state amp section from Schitt many of heard while reviewing with 300ohm headphones, which I feel has everything to do with power delivery.

Of course if you are going Lyr 2 for the tube amp then that's something the Jotunheim can't really compete with since it's solid state, or if you don't already have balanced cables (in that case it's an extra expense).

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I want sure I wantes to go for a tube amp, I was actually looking at higher end solid state ones, but Jotunheim is no longer on Schiit's webpage. I'm guessing it is discontinued

Either way, the Lyr 2 has an insane 6w per channel (at 32Ω, 660mw at 300Ω) in high gain mode, which should be enough to power the headphones I have selected, especially considering that the Modi 2 Multibit has a 2V outputs.

Eh?

It's right here:

http://schiit.com/products/jotunheim

pippenainteasy said:

Eh?

It's right here:

http://schiit.com/products/jotunheim

Click to expand...

My bad. I was looking under the AMP section, but apparently they have a separate AMP/DAC section.

Zarathustra[H] said:

Either way, the Lyr 2 has an insane 6w per channel (at 32Ω, 660mw at 300Ω) in high gain mode...

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That works out to about 14Vrms, regardless of load. Based on Innerfidelity's sensitivity measurements, that will push the 6XX past 125dB. IOW, the last thing you need is more output.

HammerSandwich said:

That works out to about 14Vrms, regardless of load. Based on Innerfidelity's sensitivity measurements, that will push the 6XX past 125dB. IOW, the last thing you need is more output.

Click to expand...

The question will be if I should use the switch in high or low gain mode for the 300Ω Sennheisers and 250Ω Beyerdynamics

With tube amps, I didn't realize I was getting myself into another expensive area in an already expensive hobby.

While I am sure the Lyr 2 sounds great with everything stock, the reviews I am reading suggest the stock tubes are pretty mediocre and that it is good to switch them out. What for, you might ask? Well here is where it becomes incredibly subjective and expensive.

I had thought that a tube was pretty much a lightbulb, but no, apparently the.magic art of making good tubes was lost in Europe in the 60's when transistors took over. The Russians continued to make some through the 90's for military purposes, but the last 10-15 yeRs went downhill.

The only consensus I can seem to find is that if you can find a set of Russian tubes from the early to mid 70's, they are generally pretty good regardless if your preferences.

I located a set on eBay and they are $100 for the pair, but they are shipping straight from Ukraine, so who knows if they are legit.

Long story short. I may have gotten myself in over my head with this tube nonsense, but on the other hand, you never know until you try it right? And ita not like I can walk in to a Best Buy and test a tube amp.

Tube amps have not been something I've pursued, and I still have a lot of vynil laying around from years past, but I have never had a dedicated water loop in a computer either.

Some things are just a hobby, IMHO.

Has always seemed like going backwards to me.

There are also some nice quality Japanese tubes, I use a Matsushita E88CC in my Aune T1 with HD600s and it's a great pairing. I prefer it over several Russian tubes, and also over a Mullard and Genalex Gold Lion tube I have laying around.

Tubes are great sound if that's what you prefer but if you want something that works with minimal fuck around, digital is hard to beat. Check out the Burson stuff if you can, not just ICs like many other designs, instead hand matched components.
Edit: having heard good tubes and good digital, I'm not convinced either is superior. Some prefer tube sound some prefer digital. I think room setup and speakers/can characteristics, also music preferences can also make a big difference in this matter.

Zarathustra[H] said:

The question will be if I should use the switch in high or low gain mode for the 300Ω Sennheisers and 250Ω Beyerdynamics

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Use high when you need 110+dB or listen to material that needs gain because it doesn't approach full scale. Probably not often!

Regarding upgrade tubes, I'd probably order a Jotunheim & decide during the return period. If the Lyr's better on the stock tubes, keep it. If not, things get difficult...

HammerSandwich said:

Regarding upgrade tubes, I'd probably order a Jotunheim & decide during the return period. If the Lyr's better on the stock tubes, keep it. If not, things get difficult...

Click to expand...

Well, in going to be doing a careful side by side listen with my existing Asgard. If it isn't a clear improvement to me, I'll have some tough choices to make.

I'm interested in Schiit's LISST "tubes". Essentially a high voltage solid state package in tube form you can just plug in, for a less warm, faster sound from the Lyr 2 like a solid state amp.

I've been trying to find comparisons between the Lyr 2 with LISST "tubes" and the Asgard 2, but I can't find anyone who has made that comparison before

I wonder if Lyr 2 with LISST is fantastic, or just a more expensive Lyr 2.

What I have heard is that they differ very much by year, but that 1975 Voskhod Rockets 6n23p woth grey shields are among the top tubes for the Lyr 2, depending on your preferences, of course.

Hi Zarathustra,

I just replied to your older thread - see that you already made your decision to get the 250 ohm Beyers.

With regards to the amps, I have never used the Lyr 2, but have played around a fair bit with the Crack. I would say you could roll a couple of tubes if you want, but don't expect massive differences in sound. Unless the stock tubes are microphonic, i.e. make pinging noises every time you bump your desk or amp, there is probably no need to change them. Rolling tubes can get pretty expensive since most people tend to buy different sets just to experiment and the differences between sets are pretty subtle. If you compare a tube amp to a ss amp, you may find that the tube amps soften the highs a little bit. Should lead to less listening fatigue, but at the same time, I can listen to my o2 for quite long periods without issue.

When comparing your two amps, make sure they are properly volume matched otherwise the louder amp usually sounds better - this is tricky to get right and unfortunately there is no exact science to comparing two amps.

grausch said:

Hi Zarathustra,

I just replied to your older thread - see that you already made your decision to get the 250 ohm Beyers.

With regards to the amps, I have never used the Lyr 2, but have played around a fair bit with the Crack. I would say you could roll a couple of tubes if you want, but don't expect massive differences in sound. Unless the stock tubes are microphonic, i.e. make pinging noises every time you bump your desk or amp, there is probably no need to change them. Rolling tubes can get pretty expensive since most people tend to buy different sets just to experiment and the differences between sets are pretty subtle. If you compare a tube amp to a ss amp, you may find that the tube amps soften the highs a little bit. Should lead to less listening fatigue, but at the same time, I can listen to my o2 for quite long periods without issue.

When comparing your two amps, make sure they are properly volume matched otherwise the louder amp usually sounds better - this is tricky to get right and unfortunately there is no exact science to comparing two amps.

Click to expand...

Hey I saw that reply, and I appreciated it!

I just got the 250Ω DT770 Pro's last night and they sound great. Just like I remember my 80Ω versions being when they were new, they are a little bit sibilant, but less than I remember. (Maybe my ears are just less sensitive to high frequency now, 7 years later )

One thing that surprised me was how small the difference on the dial is to get (approximately) the same volume between the 80Ω and 250Ω versions. With over 3 times the impedance, I expected to have to crank them higher. I already made the decision to upgrade my amp, but I can say that the first gen Asgard is plenty to drive these 250Ω, and they sound great. My Lyr 2 doesn't arrive until Saturday.

One thing I should say is, I didn't realize it over time, but I REALLY ought to have replaced the pads on my 80Ω versions over the years. By comparison the 7 year old pads are completely dead, and that is probably altering the sound of the old ones. I have a set of replacement pads coming for them, and then I'm going to sue them as headphones for mobile/low powered devices, as the 250Ω versions probably won't sound that great on those.

The Massdrop Sennheiser HD6xx drop starts on Tuesday, and the quantity is limited, so I am going to have to set my alarm and join the drop as soon as it goes live. Unfortunately they are not expected to arrive until Christmas, but I'll enjoy the 250Ω Beyerdynamics with my new Lyr until then.

Appreciate the assistance!

So, I received my Lyr 2 today, and I have to say I'm a little torn.

I have switched back and forth between my first gen Asgard and the Lyr 2, and there is a difference, but man is it subtle. It's tough for me to say that difference is worth the $200 premium over an Asgard 2, at least for me.

That being said, this is with the stock tubes, which have been nearly universally panned in every review I've read. I have a set of Russian Rockets coming and will see if they change mymind. Judging by descriptions though, I'm thinking maybe a set of Amperex Orange Globes are more for me. We'll see.

Anotherthing worth mentioning is that I only have one decent set of headphones to test it with (250 Ohm Beyerdynamic DT770 Pro). I do have my massdrop Sennheiser HD6xx's coming, but they won't be here until Christmas.

I do have a 15 day return window, but I'm thinking I may just keep it. Of all the upgrades I've done and money I've spent thus far though, this has been the smallest improvement by far, by one of the largest cost differentials. Maybe I am just hitting the diminishing returns curve

Zarathustra[H] said:

So, I received my Lyr 2 today, and I have to say I'm a little torn.

I have switched back and forth between my first gen Asgard and the Lyr 2, and there is a difference, but man is it subtle. It's tough for me to say that difference is worth the $200 premium over an Asgard 2, at least for me.

Of all the upgrades I've done and money I've spent thus far though, this has been the smallest improvement by far, by one of the largest cost differentials. Maybe I am just hitting the diminishing returns curve

Click to expand...

In terms of amps? Yes, I think so -- my understanding is that the diminishing returns curve really takes hold after the $400 (or so) mark (which is what made me settle on my Sound Blaster X7 Limited Edition as a decent "all-around" audio solution for my needs).

In terms of headphones? It hits after the $500 mark in most cases, with the notable exception of Stax electrostatic headphones (what some, like Z reviews, call "earspeakers").

For myself? I have a small collection of headphones right now, and IMHO headphones are where the most difference is going to occur after you hit that amp "performance wall".

My "progression path", headphone-wise, has been this:

AKG K240 Pro --> (bunch of crap gaming headsets) --> Sennheiser PC 360 --> Audio-Technica ATH-AG1 --> Philips SPH9500 --> Sony MDR-1A --> Beyerdynamic Custom Studio --> Fostex T50 MK3 (with Shure 1540 Alacantra pad mod) --> Sennheiser HD 630VB.

So far, of all that I've tried out in music/gaming/movies, the Fostex T50 and the Sennheiser HD 630VB stand out in a really big way above the rest, with the Fostex being noticeably more enjoyable and subtle, with a larger soundstage, than the HD 630VB. All of them are circumaural, and most of them have been comfortable for my big head (with the exception of the Beyerdynamic Custom Studio, due to it's clamp being considerably tighter than most, and thus less comfortable).

tungt88 said:

In terms of amps? Yes, I think so -- my understanding is that the diminishing returns curve really takes hold after the $400 (or so) mark (which is what made me settle on my Sound Blaster X7 Limited Edition as a decent "all-around" audio solution for my needs).

Click to expand...

It's good to have some affirmation of my theory, thanks!

tungt88 said:

In terms of headphones? It hits after the $500 mark in most cases, with the notable exception of Stax electrostatic headphones (what some, like Z reviews, call "earspeakers").

For myself? I have a small collection of headphones right now, and IMHO headphones are where the most difference is going to occur after you hit that amp "performance wall".

My "progression path", headphone-wise, has been this:

AKG K240 Pro --> (bunch of crap gaming headsets) --> Sennheiser PC 360 --> Audio-Technica ATH-AG1 --> Philips SPH9500 --> Sony MDR-1A --> Beyerdynamic Custom Studio --> Fostex T50 MK3 (with Shure 1540 Alacantra pad mod) --> Sennheiser HD 630VB.

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That is an interesting collection. Mostly so, because there are lots of models and brands in there that I don't usually see popping up in headphone conversations.

I didn't even know Fostex made headphones, I only know them from a set of shitty desk top monitor speakers I played around with once.

My progression is much shorter.

My dad lent/gave me his early 90's set of Sony CDR-250 headphones which I must have used for close to 15 years, until I finally replaced them with a set of 80Ohm Beyerdynamic DT770 Pro's in 2009. I didn't get my first headphone amp until my Asgard in 2011, and up until a few weeks ago, I was running it straight off out the RCA outs from my X-Fi Titanium HD. The DAC on that thing wasn't bad, but there was noise pollution from it sitting inside my computer. Just a few weeks ago I ordered a Modi 2 Multibit DAC and another set of DT770 Pro's, but this time the 250 Ohm version. 'if I liked their sound profile very much, and my old ones were starting to sound bad, so it made sense to me. If I'd known that the sound quality in my old ones would come right back when I replaced the pads, I probably wouldn't have done it, but it is what it is.

Now I'm waiting to see what the Massdrop version of the Sennheiser HD650 is going to sound like when it finally gets here around Xmas time. I don't want to become a headphone collector, but it seems appropriate to have one closed and one open pair to choose from. Having been a fan of my Beyerdynamics, I initially looked at their higher end open headphones, but then the massdrop just came out of nowhere in the middle of my research, and I decided to go with it.

tungt88 said:

So far, of all that I've tried out in music/gaming/movies, the Fostex T50 and the Sennheiser HD 630VB stand out in a really big way above the rest, with the Fostex being noticeably more enjoyable and subtle, with a larger soundstage, than the HD 630VB. All of them are circumaural, and most of them have been comfortable for my big head (with the exception of the Beyerdynamic Custom Studio, due to it's clamp being considerably tighter than most, and thus less comfortable).

Click to expand...

Yeah, my research suggests that better soundstage headphones also produce better positional audio in games (this makes perfect sense) and that open backed headphones produce better soundstage, so I have high hopes for the Sennheiser HD650's.

I have a large head as well, but I find the DT770 Pro's to me remarkably comfortable. They are probably a different design than the Custom Studio's. I've heard that the Sennheiser HD650's have an unusually tight "clamp of death", so I am hoping I will find them tolerable.

One thing I find mildly amusing about the Lyr 2 is that they have seemingly sought to exaggerate the tube "glow" by adding a pair of orange looking LED's on the main board of the amp below the tube sockets.

Zarathustra[H] said:

One thing I find mildly amusing about the Lyr 2 is that they have seemingly sought to exaggerate the tube "glow" by adding a pair of orange looking LED's on the main board of the amp below the tube sockets.

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My Valhalla 2, Aune T1 and Bravo Audio tube amps all have LEDs under the tube. It looks good.

You don't have to go overboard on tubes. I have a couple cheap JJ's and a couple of Genalix Gold Lions that I switch between on my Valhalla.

Zarathustra[H] said:

One thing I find mildly amusing about the Lyr 2 is that they have seemingly sought to exaggerate the tube "glow" by adding a pair of orange looking LED's on the main board of the amp below the tube sockets.

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Not all tubes generate equal amount of glow. The tubes in the Crack (6080 and 12AU7) can be seen glowing in daylight, whereas the tubes in my Stereomour (12AT7 and 2A3) can only really be seen glowing in the dark. Even then, you have to look twice to see the 2A3s' blue glow. You can spend some time experimenting with different tubes, but the differences could be even more subtle than the difference between your two amps. Unless your tubes have issues, all you are really doing is changing the EQ slightly.

Diminishing returns probably hit earlier than the $400 mark. I got my O2/ODAC combo for less than $300 and I don't think it is much better than my Sound Blaster X-Fi HD USB which I got for $100. The Crack with upgrades was significantly more than $300 and probably the best bang-for-your-buck tube amp, but at the end of the day, it is not 5 or 6 times better than the Sound Blaster. With technology and manufacturing processes evolving the way they do, the cheaper products have just become significantly better than they used to be in the past.

grausch said:

Diminishing returns probably hit earlier than the $400 mark. I got my O2/ODAC combo for less than $300 and I don't think it is much better than my Sound Blaster X-Fi HD USB which I got for $100. The Crack with upgrades was significantly more than $300 and probably the best bang-for-your-buck tube amp, but at the end of the day, it is not 5 or 6 times better than the Sound Blaster. With technology and manufacturing processes evolving the way they do, the cheaper products have just become significantly better than they used to be in the past.

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Interesting. I found going to my Schiit Modi 2 Multibit from my Sound Blaster X-Fi Titanium HD (both connected directly to my Schiit Asgard amp) to be a huge leap in audio quality.

I was expecting it to really only lower the noise floor, as the inside of my case had become increasingly noisy, and I was hearing things like mouse movement and my water pump through my headphones, but when I got it, I was actually surprised at how much I felt the clarity improved. That one DAC upgrade is what rekindled my love of music, and has had me buy more gear in the last few weeks and listen to more music than I have in years.

Going from the Asgard to the Lyr 2 was the opposite. I was expecting much more out of that upgrade than I actually got, but it could also be because people tend to find the default tubes subpar.

My understanding is - however - that depending on your hardware these upgrades can have differing levels of impact. If you have a set of AKG K7xx's I understand the amp can have a HUGE impact on sound quality, whereas for headphones like my Beyerdynamics, or the Sennheiser HD650's I'll be getting soon, the impact of the amp is smaller.

Maybe the choice of headphone also determines how much of a difference you notice in the DAC?

Zarathustra[H] said:

My understanding is - however - that depending on your hardware these upgrades can have differing levels of impact. If you have a set of AKG K7xx's I understand the amp can have a HUGE impact on sound quality, whereas for headphones like my Beyerdynamics, or the Sennheiser HD650's I'll be getting soon, the impact of the amp is smaller.

Maybe the choice of headphone also determines how much of a difference you notice in the DAC?

Click to expand...

(highlight by me)

That highlight tells it all -- my Sennheiser HD 630VB (roughly comparable to a tweaked up HD 600/650 w/major physical modifications) requires very little to no amping needed, while my Fostex T50RP MK3 is notorious for being a serious power hog (absolutely not recommended unless you have a very powerful amp). I like the Fostex over my Sennheisers, and so I use the HD 630VB on my gaming laptop (usually w/the Sound Blaster G5), and have the Fostex doing desktop duty, paired up with my Sound Blaster X7 Limited Edition DAC/Amp.

Zarathustra[H] said:

Interesting. I found going to my Schiit Modi 2 Multibit from my Sound Blaster X-Fi Titanium HD (both connected directly to my Schiit Asgard amp) to be a huge leap in audio quality.

I was expecting it to really only lower the noise floor, as the inside of my case had become increasingly noisy, and I was hearing things like mouse movement and my water pump through my headphones, but when I got it, I was actually surprised at how much I felt the clarity improved. That one DAC upgrade is what rekindled my love of music, and has had me buy more gear in the last few weeks and listen to more music than I have in years.

Going from the Asgard to the Lyr 2 was the opposite. I was expecting much more out of that upgrade than I actually got, but it could also be because people tend to find the default tubes subpar.

My understanding is - however - that depending on your hardware these upgrades can have differing levels of impact. If you have a set of AKG K7xx's I understand the amp can have a HUGE impact on sound quality, whereas for headphones like my Beyerdynamics, or the Sennheiser HD650's I'll be getting soon, the impact of the amp is smaller.

Maybe the choice of headphone also determines how much of a difference you notice in the DAC?

Click to expand...

Unfortunately, this type of stuff gets very difficult to prove. While I don't own HD650s, reportedly they scale extremely well with better amps. Should maybe buy some and test the theory since I have a few amps (from a cMoyBB up to a heavily modded Crack).

I have once A/B-ed the X-Fi with the Crack. Unfortunately this uses the same DAC, but since you can run both the headphone out and the RCA outs on the X-Fi, switching between the two amps is fast. I also tested different headphones by keeping both plugged in and just quickly switching phones. Once they were properly volume matched, the differences with both setups become extremely slight. Initially my volume matching was a bit off, and the loudest headphones then always sounded best.

Not to say there aren't differences, but with my type of music (classic rock, hard rock, blues and some 80s metal), the differences don't always appear that large. Sure, the Beyers can deliver cannon-like bass and great cymbals, but at the same time, when I listen to my Shure SRH440s (very neutral headphones), the thing I miss most about the Beyers is the comfort. Music still sounds great and I can hear the bass and cymbals perfectly although they are delivered with slightly less authority. I can still shift my focus to whichever instrument I wish to listen to, and unless the instruments were muddled up in final production, I have no problems picking out guitar parts, etc. Computer or tv speakers are another matter entirely though - they suck badly.

Regarding your move from your Sound Blaster to the Modi 2, I have heard that lower noise floor can lead to an increase in overall clarity of music. Unfortunately I can't recall where I got that from and it could very well be unsubstantiated forum talk...

Final thought - it would be really great if there was a way to measure these type of differences, but even if we could different people would still hear things differently. Personal preferences exist, so I would say enjoy your new gear, and draw your own conclusions from your comparisons. I look forward to hearing what you think of your set of Massdrop 650s.

grausch said:

Unfortunately, this type of stuff gets very difficult to prove. While I don't own HD650s, reportedly they scale extremely well with better amps. Should maybe buy some and test the theory since I have a few amps (from a cMoyBB up to a heavily modded Crack).

I have once A/B-ed the X-Fi with the Crack. Unfortunately this uses the same DAC, but since you can run both the headphone out and the RCA outs on the X-Fi, switching between the two amps is fast. I also tested different headphones by keeping both plugged in and just quickly switching phones. Once they were properly volume matched, the differences with both setups become extremely slight. Initially my volume matching was a bit off, and the loudest headphones then always sounded best.

Not to say there aren't differences, but with my type of music (classic rock, hard rock, blues and some 80s metal), the differences don't always appear that large. Sure, the Beyers can deliver cannon-like bass and great cymbals, but at the same time, when I listen to my Shure SRH440s (very neutral headphones), the thing I miss most about the Beyers is the comfort. Music still sounds great and I can hear the bass and cymbals perfectly although they are delivered with slightly less authority. I can still shift my focus to whichever instrument I wish to listen to, and unless the instruments were muddled up in final production, I have no problems picking out guitar parts, etc. Computer or tv speakers are another matter entirely though - they suck badly.

Regarding your move from your Sound Blaster to the Modi 2, I have heard that lower noise floor can lead to an increase in overall clarity of music. Unfortunately I can't recall where I got that from and it could very well be unsubstantiated forum talk...

Final thought - it would be really great if there was a way to measure these type of differences, but even if we could different people would still hear things differently. Personal preferences exist, so I would say enjoy your new gear, and draw your own conclusions from your comparisons. I look forward to hearing what you think of your set of Massdrop 650s.

Click to expand...

In order to take it out of the realm of the subjective and bring it back to the objective, there has to be a way to measure the output of the speakers/headphones and then compute the RMS difference to the original digital recording, but that would require some ridiculous super sensitive microphone which would add its own error as well.

Also, that assumes that we all agree that perfect source matching is the ideal audio standard to achieve, which is by no means universally agreed upon.

Tube amps - for instance - are intentionally used by people because they "color" the sound and because they like that colored sound. Any coloring - however - would result in a greater computed standard error.

Same with a system that brings out more than neutral bass, or with vinyl recordings.

Zarathustra[H] said:

In order to take it out of the realm of the subjective and bring it back to the objective, there has to be a way to measure the output of the speakers/headphones and then compute the RMS difference to the original digital recording, but that would require some ridiculous super sensitive microphone which would add its own error as well.

Also, that assumes that we all agree that perfect source matching is the ideal audio standard to achieve, which is by no means universally agreed upon.

Tube amps - for instance - are intentionally used by people because they "color" the sound and because they like that colored sound. Any coloring - however - would result in a greater computed standard error.

Same with a system that brings out more than neutral bass, or with vinyl recordings.

Click to expand...

Even if we could test these things completely objectively, some 16-year old kid will have better high-frequency hearing than I do, so his perception of certain phones / amps will be different to mine.

So, just enjoy what you have, update us with your thoughts on the upgrades / new phones, and remember to make one change at a time. It is a fun hobby and I liked experimenting, but nowadays I just focus on enjoying the music and rather spend my time buying albums from obscure artists.