Is The Self-Driving Car Un-American?

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I don't know about being un-American but self-driving cars sure would take the fun out of driving. And what about emergencies? Will your self-driving car rush you to the hospital? Who is at fault when your car BSoDs and causes an accident? I think this sums things up nicely:

Because driverless cars are programmed to never break (or even bend) traffic laws, they will never go more than ten miles over the speed limit, even when you’re rushing to the hospital and your daughter’s face is turning blue. You will never take a turn a little too hard, causing that little droopy feeling in your gut. You will never do doughnuts, never peel out, never gun your engine. The shared experience of American adolescence — much of it spent in cars, acquiring a nuanced understanding of when, and how, it is okay to break certain rules — will simply vanish.
 
If we are talking about a car only being self driving then they can keep it. If I have the ability to turn it on and off then I will be first in line. For commuting to work in traffic, always on. For emergencies and general driving, always off.
 
I'm sure they will let you turn it off - for an increase in your insurance bill. Except they will word it differently, saying "you will lose your self-driving discount if you disable the auto-drive feature." Because statistically, self-driving cars will be safer than non-self-driving cars in the long term and insurance is all about statistics.
 
I wouldn't call it un-American. However, it does completely remove the spirit of driving. I think it's great for your average commuter perhaps, but if you love cars and driving, this isn't great. Or as mentioned above, turn it on for the mundane, turn it off for emergencies, fun, etc. If I wasn't able to drive the way I did early on, I may have been killed several times over by being less of a driver now. Obviously that's not for everyone, so as usual choice is what it comes down to. Let people decide if they want to drive or be driven.

If you force self-driving cars on everyone, you may as well just ban cars, and make more trains. :yuck:
 
I have a theory. These guys who are so threatened by self driving cars, are probably bullied by their boss at work, and they don't even wear the trousers at home. So the only place where they feel in control is during the commute to work, after they dropped off the children, and they can road rage and tailgate unsuspecting drivers. They fear self driving cars will take away that little illusion of control from them.

But I have good news for them: Self driving cars are optional, and even if you have a car that is capable of driving itself it's still optional.

Fun fact: Most new cars equipped with modern drive assist features are capable of driving themselves at the level of a tesla. It's just a question of a software update. So chances are you're already driving a self driving capable car.

My idea of fun is not sitting in rush hour traffic. It's much more entertaining to be on a racetrack. Hell it's infinitely more entertaining just to play a simulator.
 
15 years from now, people will be sued for driving manually and causing an accident. The lawyers will prove (via onboard logging) that the auto-drive feature would have saved little Timmy's life.
 
Would not need driver-less cars. Just get rid of driver-less drivers that talk on there cell text and drive and impaired all the time.
 
jnemesh said:
So too will disappear the roughly 40,000 fatalities a YEAR in the US alone that result from "adolescent fun", DUIs. and distracted driving.
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I don't think they'll disappear, but they'll be significantly reduced (or near zero). Even with computers driving every car, life still has a way of screwing with the analog world.
 
Xrave said:
It's true, and that's a good thing.
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Don't get me wrong, I agree. It does bring up a point that auto-drive cars are only going to be really safe when there's ONLY auto-drive cars on the road. If I was driving an auto-drive car, I'd still want my hands on the wheel just in case there's some guy out there driving on manual like an idiot.
 
Azrak said:
I'm sure they will let you turn it off - for an increase in your insurance bill. Except they will word it differently, saying "you will lose your self-driving discount if you disable the auto-drive feature." Because statistically, self-driving cars will be safer than non-self-driving cars in the long term and insurance is all about statistics.
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I hope I'm not paying for liability if I'm not driving. Some asian kid hacks the server and not only am I paralyzed in the 5000 car pile-up (it took awhile for authorities to shut the damn thing off!) but my insurance rates go up too?
jnemesh said:
So too will disappear the roughly 40,000 fatalities a YEAR in the US alone that result from "adolescent fun", DUIs. and distracted driving.
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Great, we're running out of people!
 
UnAmerican? nah...

If there's an accident someone will sue for a huge amount of money, that's as American as apple pie!
If there's a law requiring self-driving cars on say freeways, someone will sue, someone will bitch and moan, the internet will be set ablaze... that's damn American right there!
 
How fast does driving ability degrade when you stop driving regularly? What worries me is how many people will lose the ability to drive well but will be unwilling to recognize the fact. Most people overestimate their skills as it is. People growing up solely using autonomous cars won't really care about driving, it's the ones who are driving legends in their own minds that are going to be a problem when they think "I got this" and switch to manual.
 
Blista said:
How fast does driving ability degrade when you stop driving regularly? What worries me is how many people will lose the ability to drive well but will be unwilling to recognize the fact. Most people overestimate their skills as it is. People growing up solely using autonomous cars won't really care about driving, it's the ones who are driving legends in their own minds that are going to be a problem when they think "I got this" and switch to manual.
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How fast does intercourse ability degrade when you stop having sex regularly? What worries me is how many people will lose the ability to do the nasty well but will be unwilling to recognize the fact. Most people overestimate their skills as it is. People growing up solely using porn won't really care about human interaction, it's the ones who are cocksmith legends in their own minds that are going to be a problem when they think "I got this" and switch to actually doing the deed.
 
One thing is that if there were nothing but driverless cars on the road, there would be no need for speed limits as the cars would know what the maximum fast speed would be for any given situation and always drive at that speed. Also the number of deaths on the road would likely be almost zero (there would still be crashes due to deer (or stupid humans) jumping onto the road and things like that).
 
You know what's un-American? Not having giant robot cars. Can you imagine the horrible gas mileage we'd get with those? Like a proper American, I'd drive it to get groceries. Maybe even destroy a DMV or two. Depends how long I have to wait in line.

 
mcravenufo said:
If we are talking about a car only being self driving then they can keep it. If I have the ability to turn it on and off then I will be first in line. For commuting to work in traffic, always on. For emergencies and general driving, always off.
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They may have an emergency mode available. And outside of inclement weather, the car could drive 150 MPH to the hospital and be completely safe.
 
No. I'm for automation due to a number of reasons:

1. Self-driving will make most traffic unnecessary. In some areas where foot traffic is common, traffic may become necessary.
2. Road fatality will drop sharply especially from DUI's. Road Rage will also drop sharply as everyone will keep moving on the freeways as delays is the biggest contributor to road rage.
3. Insurance premiums will go down and insurance fraud will also go down. Hell even civil actions will go down related to road accidents. The ambulance chasers will have to find another job. If you chose to avoid self-driving, then your insurance premiums will either stay the same or increase.
4. Cars broadcasting their positions will become a reality and it'll cut down on kidnappings, murder, eluding the police, etc as people can't use their vehicles to get away with their bullshit. Hell, I'm sure it'll give rise to figuring out serial killers that could be hiding on the freeway making it hard to find these killers. See: Highway Serial Killings Initiative
Oh, it'll also track these morons on the freeways that actually do contribute to traffic intentionally, yes they exist and they revel in knowing they caused traffic and they either intentionally or unintentionally increases the chances of road fatalities.
5. Fuel efficiency will rise as self-driving will figure out optimal driving speed vs distance. My Civic does 41 MPG on cruise control over hundreds of miles but lower when I stop more often in the cities. Self-driving will probably figure out if your destination is within commuting distance, it will favor speed vs your destination is a longer distance so it will favor fuel efficiency. I'm sure there will be a press of a button to tell the computer to favor speed as long it's safe to do so.
6. Police traps will be reduced including Driving While Black (DWB) will probably drop like a rock too.
Yes, I know there are con's but I favor the pro's more based on my experiences of driving.

Driving is a privilege, not a right.
 
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IcePickFreak said:
I hope I'm not paying for liability if I'm not driving. Some asian kid hacks the server and not only am I paralyzed in the 5000 car pile-up (it took awhile for authorities to shut the damn thing off!) but my insurance rates go up too?

Great, we're running out of people!
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No doubt in my mind that would happen.

I'd love self driving so I could sleep.
 
IcePickFreak said:
I hope I'm not paying for liability if I'm not driving. Some asian kid hacks the server and not only am I paralyzed in the 5000 car pile-up (it took awhile for authorities to shut the damn thing off!) but my insurance rates go up too?

Great, we're running out of people!
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I seriously doubt there's going to be a "server" controlling all cars that'll cause a "5000 car pile-up". It'll be short range transmitters of constantly moving "talking" cars communicating with each other which the impact will be much lower isolated to a limited amount of cars and if the flaw is found, it'll be fixed. People have already thought of this crap and you're not the first one.
 
Kaitian said:
I seriously doubt there's going to be a "server" controlling all cars. It'll be short range transmitters of constantly moving cars which the impact will be much lower isolated to a limited amount of cars and if the flaw is found, it'll be fixed. People have already thought of this crap and you're not the first one.
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Doesn't matter if they are short range, they'd all still be connected. I am surprised someone on [H] would post something like this. [H] has posted links to articles over the years showing everything has basically been hacked. Department of Defense top secret documents, Teslas, hundreds of millions of CC, majority of SS numbers, ect. ect.

If someone really wants to just do harm, besides hacking it's not hard to "blind" them with radiation.

I'd also be really really surprised if the gov't wouldn't build in "off" switches for police.
 
Considering that 94% of cars in America now are automatic transmission, most people drive because they have to, not because they want to.

We are victims of a past love-affair with the automobiles that pretty much ended in the 70's, and we are stuck with the cities and road systems built during that time.


(I'm part of the minority of people who actually enjoy driving, and insist on getting the manual transmission version)
 
Dayaks said:
Doesn't matter if they are short range, they'd all still be connected. I am surprised someone on [H] would post something like this. [H] has posted links to articles over the years showing everything has basically been hacked. Department of Defense top secret documents, Teslas, hundreds of millions of CC, majority of SS numbers, ect. ect.

If someone really wants to just do harm, besides hacking it's not hard to "blind" them with radiation.

I'd also be really really surprised if the gov't wouldn't build in "off" switches for police.
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They're going to be independent of each other, not "connected". Just because two submarines are pinging each other doesn't mean they are "connected". The Tesla "hack" was not an actual hack because it required the car to be connected to a specific malicious WiFi that the driver connected to and stayed within range of.
 
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Kaitian said:
They're going to be independent of each other, not "connected". Just because two submarines are pinging each other doesn't mean they are "connected". The Tesla "hack" was not an actual hack because it required the car to be connected to a specific malicious WiFi that the driver connected to and stayed within range of.
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I guess we'll have to see. I have a hard time believing no one is going to mess up.
 
Dayaks said:
I guess we'll have to see. I have a hard time believing no one is going to mess up.
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There are going to be exploits from time to time but it won't be anything near a "5000 car pile-up". You would specifically have to hack 5000 cars simultaneously and be literally within the physical range of these cars for it to happen targeting a specific exploit that they all use and assuming that these access are not encrypted. That is impossible. Tesla already has a shit load of monitoring on their cars and they do know when people attempt to fuck with their cars by calling up the owners to knock that shit off. These guys actually do pay exploiters to find exploits in their cars so they can fix it immediately.
 
I'm just waiting for the day when someone comes along & insists on charging extra for the "fast lanes". Folk who don't want to pay will be regulated to the "slow lanes"...now where have I heard this before?

I kid but when it comes to jobs/transportation, a person would really be at the mercy of corporations/Gvmnt when it comes to something like that.
 
Miah said:
I'm just waiting for the day when someone comes along & insists on charging extra for the "fast lanes". Folk who don't want to pay will be regulated to the "slow lanes"...now where have I heard this before?

I kid but when it comes to jobs/transportation, a person would really be at the mercy of corporations/Gvmnt when it comes to something like that.
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They already do have toll lanes that are "fast lanes".
 
Bandalo said:
Don't get me wrong, I agree. It does bring up a point that auto-drive cars are only going to be really safe when there's ONLY auto-drive cars on the road. If I was driving an auto-drive car, I'd still want my hands on the wheel just in case there's some guy out there driving on manual like an idiot.
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I disagree with this. The vast majority of car accidents I see are caused by total negligence and mistakes. They are not caused by the guy who loves driving and decides to drive. Just think about drunk driving, no more excuse just turn on auto pilot. Or lets say texting and driving, those people will gladly hand control over to the car so they can focus on what their crush is saying. IMO auto driving cars are going to make driving much safer right from the get go and it will keep increasing with time.

If someone is driving SO awfully that a self driving car cannot react to them then I really don't see how a human driver is going to do any better.

Once self driving cars are proven in a world where most cars are driven manually, they will be fine. The whole argument for getting humans out of the equation IMO is not about some deficiency in self driving cars dealing with humans its more about self driving cars wanting to start creating their own new set of rules. A set of rules that could do all sorts of really cool stuff. For instance imagine if we can completely remove traffic signals and stop signs from many of the worlds intersections because self driving cars respect each other or even have the timings built in to some master system. Then we don't have to spend money maintaining all of that infrastructure. Imagine if self driving cars can sense and be instructed to slow down or allow people to come out of minor intersections to even out city traffic. Self driving cars might actually start driving much closer to each other if all cars are self driving or moving at much higher speed limits that grandma simply has no way to deal with. Sure a middle aged person may be able to race a car at 200 mph at their prime but you cant expect new drivers, old people, or people with various handicaps to pull that off.

I think we all heard lots of similar arguments during the transition to automatic transmissions and cruise control however both of those have largely taken over the market.
 
So if all these cars aren't going to be connected to some common point, where do they get road information? Speed information? No GPS? Are the going to only get periodic updates (at the dealer by a trained professional with a clean background, of course - think TSA agent if you will) so the first time you come upon construction with lane & road closures it's just gonna pull over and connect you to a friendly customer service representative named Fred from some undetermined location in the world?

If they have this really dialed in and 100% secure, why aren't they consulting the Feds on how to get their shit together?
 
Hell no it's not un-American. In fact quite the opposite. Not making a driver less car would be un-American . We are lazy and what better way than to kick back and let the auto pilot do the rush hour and long haul driving. Addition incentive will be cost savings reflected in less accidents, more efficient traffic routing, leading to faster travel times and lower fuel consumption.

I seriously doubt manual controls for roadworthy cars will be going away anytime soon . Consider aircraft, we've had a semblance of auto pilot systems around for 100+ years, and manned aircraft still have manual controls.
 
Kaitian said:
They're going to be independent of each other, not "connected". Just because two submarines are pinging each other doesn't mean they are "connected". The Tesla "hack" was not an actual hack because it required the car to be connected to a specific malicious WiFi that the driver connected to and stayed within range of.
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Hackers Remotely Kill a Jeep on the Highway—With Me in It

just sayin'.... giving your car a public ip... sounds smart.
 
Gweenz said:
Modern cars take all the fun out of driving. Fly by wire is GARBAGE.
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Go to a race track if you want to have fun while driving. Doing so elsewhere is psychopathic behaviour putting humans and animals to unnecessary risk. Not to mention all that noise.
 
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