PlayStation Will Lead Premium VR Market

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Let's hope this doesn't come true. Those of you that have been following our GPU VR performance reviews know that doing VR right takes a good deal of GPU horsepower. This means that, in order for Sony’s PlayStation VR to become the "standard" VR titles are developed for, we'll once again be stuck with games that are tailored for console specs and then ported to the PC. :(

Flavio Parenti (pictured right), CEO of Loading Human makers Untold Games, goes as far as to say that if it’s successful, PSVR could become the standard VR titles are developed for. “We expect PlayStation VR to be a market leader,” he said. “We don’t know how big the market is or how big PSVR will be, but the sweet deal that Sony is giving to the players is amazing. For just half the price of the others you get everything. Developers will aim for PSVR standards, and then adapt games to PC if PSVR is the market leader.”
 
This was always going to be the case. Though hopefully with the PS4 Pro that means that games developed with the PS4 in mind will have different graphics settings options.
 
RSVR is positioned perfectly for the general public to widely adopt. Good VR is simply out of reach for 99% of the general gaming public. High price points for the the current PC HMDs are high enough as it is without factoring in the high cost of the min spec PC to run them. It makes sense that RSVR would become the platform of choice if adoption rates skyrocket past the current adoption rates for Vive/Oculus head sets.
 
We don’t know how big the market is or how big PSVR will be
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I hope they have an idea. It's generally one of the first things you'd want to do in business, get to know your potential market size and the targeted demographic. Find your customer archetype. Get data and do tests (surveys, etc.) to making educated assumptions on what the market potential is.

Heck, for my current venture I spent weeks gathering data (including that LoC request) and combining into a spreadsheet function that correlated everything (if possible) so I could arrive at an estimate of potential. Too many business owners just go in blind or don't do their due diligence on the market ("The entire market is $3bn, therefore if we capture just .1% of that, we could do $3mil!!" Without taking into account how they'd acquire that share, what drives that market valuation, and what their subset is).

Blindly making assumptions is a sure way to fail.
 
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I always assumed this would be the case. Getting a setup for the PC is prohibitively expensive and inconvenient. The GearVR is rocking graphics from the PS1 era.
The PS4 setup is both accessible (all PS4 owners can get it) and light years ahead of the GearVR.
 
Spidey329 said:
I hope they have an idea. It's generally one of the first things you'd want to do in business, get to know your potential market size and the targeted demographic. Find your customer archetype. Get data and do tests (surveys, etc.) to making educated assumptions on what the market potential is.

Heck, for my current venture I spent weeks gathering data (including that LoC request) and combining into a spreadsheet function that correlated everything (if possible) so I could arrive at an estimate of potential. Too many business owners just go in blind or don't do their due diligence on the market ("The entire market is $3bn, therefore if we capture just .1% of that, we could do $3mil!!" Without taking into account how they'd acquire that share, what drives that market valuation, and what their subset is).

Blindly making assumptions is a sure way to fail.
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They also have the benefit of a wide existing customer base in which they have the ability to basically constantly data mine. Marketing to existing base is fairly easy even with a simple MCIF and limited data... As stated above, Sony has a very good idea of what the market for their product is.

Now obtaining new customers meanwhile forecasting demand is a bit more difficult. Send out the CMA's.
 
This would be absolutely fantastic for me. The high cost of VR on the PC is out of my reach completely.
 
PSVR is fine and from what I played at a best buy demo, PS4 is powerful enough to make fun experiences.

Remember that due to the lower res and lower refresh, PSVR is pushing about half the pixels per second that the same game would need on a PC VR headset. Add supersampling on top of that and you can chew up most existing GPUs in use, before you even talk about adding higher graphics quality settings.

Simple stuff like shadow quality/distance, LOD aggressiveness, and other typical graphics settings will likely be added to PSVR->PC ports to push capable systems. I'm not worried about it.


What I am worried about is that PSVR games seem more likely to violate the "rules" of VR, particularly around artificial locomotion. I hope they don't ruin VR for people with stupid joystick movement that causes discomfort for most people.
 
The cost of VR is high because there aren't a lot of players.
PS4 can't do vr very well. PS4 pro still can't do vr very well either.
Only a highend PC can at the moment.

It'll be a fad on the ps4. It will hopefully lead to cheaper prices for vr on the PC side. Maybe a ps5 will be able to do it better, but it's not at a 300$ price range for the hardware to push out the video.
 
Steve said:
Let's hope this doesn't come true. Those of you that have been following our GPU VR performance reviews know that doing VR right takes a good deal of GPU horsepower. This means that, in order for Sony’s PlayStation VR to become the "standard" VR titles are developed for, we'll once again be stuck with games that are tailored for console specs and then ported to the PC. :(
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It goes without saying that this would happen. For something to be the standard everything else is developed after, it has to ahve the largest volume, and for something to have the largest volume, it needs to be reasonably cheap.

If people aren't willing to pay for a mid range GPU and a desktop to play games at higher quality at 60fps and 1080p, then they sure as hell are not going to be willing to pay for a high end GPU and Desktop for VR.

So once again, most titles are going to be developed for low end hardware, with - at best - bolt ons that make them look a little better on the PC, but not as good as they could.
 
I don't really see what the big deal is. It's no different from BF1 being 720p 60fps @ medium settings on xbone and 1440p 120fps @ ultra on my PC. PSVR games will be good enough for the console people to have fun, and basic IQ improvements on PC ports will be enough to saturate the average gaming PC.

Would you guys rather they not make games at all? Because with the rounding error of a market that PC VR currently is, PSVR ports/multiplats are the only hope for "real" games in the next few years.

I'm looking forward to having more games to play and may even pick up a PSVR for the hell of it if there are enough good games that don't make it to my Vive/TitanXP system.
 
im hoping it does well to help keep pushing things forward. If VR with the PS is a hit - how can they improve it? very likely... big AAA games - and that requires more power behind future consoles. I'm still curious as to what the differences would be between a VR game on the PS4 compared to the PC with similar game specs (resolution etc.).
 
Steve said:
Let's hope this doesn't come true. Those of you that have been following our GPU VR performance reviews know that doing VR right takes a good deal of GPU horsepower. This means that, in order for Sony’s PlayStation VR to become the "standard" VR titles are developed for, we'll once again be stuck with games that are tailored for console specs and then ported to the PC. :(
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Hope you like flat colored polygonal figures!

facebook.jpg
 
That's fine, I simply won't buy VR titles then /shrug

Plenty of other games to play until powerful enough hardware reaches mainstream price points.
 
I honestly don't care if Playstation leads the charge on this one. Sony is a mega giant corporation. They have money to burn to keep this in the limelight long enough that it might take hold.

More VR players on any platform is good for everyone. More interest = more demand = more supply = cheaper prices for everyone on any platform.
 
PSVR will bring VR mainstream and thats good for PC VR and customers. With a large platform to build on, the PSVR will be the choice for cost and ease of use, and that will bring prices down on the PC end. I think this is a good thing.
 
I don't know, seen this rodeo too many times before. PC VR is absolutely the way to go, it hits the minimum bar of FOV, graphical quality, and interactivity. I mean minimum.

The PSVR will be so scaled back due to console limitations, ie polygonal figures, that I just don't see it taking off with the general public. It is quite possible that the sub-par PSVR experience will cause vr gaming to collapse again as people abandon the medium and write off it's PC equivalent because it sucked on my PS4. I play socially with these people (random internet PS4 players) and I don't think they'll have the patience to setup their VR system just to play a polygonal game while everyone else is playing Siege 2 or Battlefield 1.

I'm very skeptical of the PSVR and hope it doesn't kill the product.
 
I have a vive and about 50 VR games/demos that I've played on my 5820k/Titan XP system. I have also used PSVR. It is totally fine. Relax. Of course they are in different leagues but PSVR is not so crappy that it will hurt the VR industry.

The gloom and doom is ridiculous.
 
pj- said:
I have a vive and about 50 VR games/demos that I've played on my 5820k/Titan XP system. I have also used PSVR. It is totally fine. Relax. Of course they are in different leagues but PSVR is not so crappy that it will hurt the VR industry.

The gloom and doom is ridiculous.
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Glad to hear that.
 
considering that a high end vr pc costs 2500$, I don't see anyone developing aaa games for less than 1% of the marketshare anytime soon.
 
of course mainstream VR acceptance will be through the PS4...anyone who thinks otherwise is dreaming...in fact even Vive/Hive owners better hope it takes off on console as that's the only way it'll take off in any manner for the foreseeable future
 
People keep bringing up the cost of PC VR. Many of us have more than enough capable machines and don't have to buy a whole new rig. Millions of PCs out there are very capable of running VR. For me to get PSVR I would have to buy a PS4 most likely the Pro $399 then buy PSVR $399 and add on the additional cost of VR games over PC games on top of it. Guess what, it is the same cost as if I bought the Vive with superior quality VR. Now I have extra monitors which I could hook up a PS4 but others may have to buy a monitor or HDTV for it adding an additional cost.

So for those who already have capable machines Vive is probably the better deal. In addition your PC can be used more than just games so hardware bought gets more use I say then a console - at least on my machines that is. I am hoping that I will be able to model 3d in VR in the near future and I do not want to do that on a PS4Pro with a crappy HMD. Also create 360 degree VR videos maybe fun as well, the PC would be a hell a lot better place to do that.

PC VR is just starting and it has a way better future I think then Console VR.
 
noko said:
People keep bringing up the cost of PC VR. Many of us have more than enough capable machines and don't have to buy a whole new rig. Millions of PCs out there are very capable of running VR. For me to get PSVR I would have to buy a PS4 most likely the Pro $399 then buy PSVR $399 and add on the additional cost of VR games over PC games on top of it. Guess what, it is the same cost as if I bought the Vive with superior quality VR. Now I have extra monitors which I could hook up a PS4 but others may have to buy a monitor or HDTV for it adding an additional cost.

So for those who already have capable machines Vive is probably the better deal. In addition your PC can be used more than just games so hardware bought gets more use I say then a console - at least on my machines that is. I am hoping that I will be able to model 3d in VR in the near future and I do not want to do that on a PS4Pro with a crappy HMD. Also create 360 degree VR videos maybe fun as well, the PC would be a hell a lot better place to do that.

PC VR is just starting and it has a way better future I think then Console VR.
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There are 40 million PS4s, and around 10 million VR "capable" pcs.

PSVR is inarguably cheaper than PC VR for the average person. The only scenario where PC VR is cheaper is if you already have a VR capable PC and do not own a PS4, which is a small minority of people. If you have no PS4 and no PC (most people on earth), PSVR is the cheaper option. If you have a PS4 and a PC, PSVR is still cheaper.

Claiming an HDTV as an extra cost for PSVR is just ridiculous. How many people who are interested in VR do not have an HDTV? A hundred?
 
pj- said:
There are 40 million PS4s, and around 10 million VR "capable" pcs.

PSVR is inarguably cheaper than PC VR for the average person. The only scenario where PC VR is cheaper is if you already have a VR capable PC and do not own a PS4, which is a small minority of people. If you have no PS4 and no PC (most people on earth), PSVR is the cheaper option. If you have a PS4 and a PC, PSVR is still cheaper.

Claiming an HDTV as an extra cost for PSVR is just ridiculous. How many people who are interested in VR do not have an HDTV? A hundred?
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Well I forgot to add the PS4 camera which I think is around $69 plus the hand controllers (not sure the price). The point is it can be more expensive then getting something for the PC. Now I wonder if Kyle can stomach a review of a PS4 Pro with PS4 VR and all the trimmings. Just to have a full range of VR tech looked at. The best thing I see PS4 has for VR are the hundreds of developers working on VR in games and the games coming out.

Now why would you think it was ridiculous for another HDTV - no way would our main HDTV set be used for PS4 gaming, a separate room would be used especially if you went VR with it. Different folks for different strokes. I am looking at over $900 + for PS4 VR and $799 for the PC. So the bottom line is it depends which one is cheaper, I believe the hardware is superior on the PC side.
 
Anybody who thinks the state of mainstream VR on PCs will be better than on consoles is delusional. Sony is far more capable of delivering a killer VR game than any of the PC-only devs, and history has shown it's the games that sell hardware, not the other way around.
 
noko said:
Well I forgot to add the PS4 camera which I think is around $69 plus the hand controllers (not sure the price). The point is it can be more expensive then getting something for the PC. Now I wonder if Kyle can stomach a review of a PS4 Pro with PS4 VR and all the trimmings. Just to have a full range of VR tech looked at. The best thing I see PS4 has for VR are the hundreds of developers working on VR in games and the games coming out.

Now why would you think it was ridiculous for another HDTV - no way would our main HDTV set be used for PS4 gaming, a separate room would be used especially if you went VR with it. Different folks for different strokes. I am looking at over $900 + for PS4 VR and $799 for the PC. So the bottom line is it depends which one is cheaper, I believe the hardware is superior on the PC side.
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Yes, of course PC vr is cheaper for some people. They are called outliers. For the AVERAGE person PSVR is cheaper.

The number of people with no ps4 and no PC who have enough money to possibly afford VR (hundreds of millions), plus the number of people with a PS4 (~40 million) is much larger than the number of people with a gaming PC (~10 million).

For the average person, the "all in" cost of PSVR is cheaper. A PS4 + full PSVR bundle is $800. That is what Vive costs before you even get to the PC you need for it. PS4 Pro ups that to $900, but for anybody that doesn't already have a completely VR ready PC, PSVR is going to be cheaper. Nobody is arguing that PSVR is better, because it ain't. It is just cheaper.

I don't know why you wouldn't use a PS4 on your main tv but whatever, that's your issue. Most people who play console games play them on the one HDTV that they own. PSVR doesn't really need a dedicated space because most of the games for it so far are meant to be played seated.
 
I knew PSVR was doomed as soon as the ps4 pro specs were announced. This actually sets VR back about a decade IMO.
 
I guess I have issues with this thread's title. There is nothing "Premium" about PSVR. Adequate, Entry Level, Starter, Novice, and Beginner all come to mind, but Premium VR just doesn't sound right. It's only a small step up from Gear VR at best.
 
pj- said:
Yes, of course PC vr is cheaper for some people. They are called outliers. For the AVERAGE person PSVR is cheaper.

The number of people with no ps4 and no PC who have enough money to possibly afford VR (hundreds of millions), plus the number of people with a PS4 (~40 million) is much larger than the number of people with a gaming PC (~10 million).

For the average person, the "all in" cost of PSVR is cheaper. A PS4 + full PSVR bundle is $800. That is what Vive costs before you even get to the PC you need for it. PS4 Pro ups that to $900, but for anybody that doesn't already have a completely VR ready PC, PSVR is going to be cheaper. Nobody is arguing that PSVR is better, because it ain't. It is just cheaper.

I don't know why you wouldn't use a PS4 on your main tv but whatever, that's your issue. Most people who play console games play them on the one HDTV that they own. PSVR doesn't really need a dedicated space because most of the games for it so far are meant to be played seated.
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I love how the arguments from PS4 VR detractors are in line with something like "Minecraft will never take off when the graphics look like utter shit". Something something about forest and tress.
 
pj- said:
Yes, of course PC vr is cheaper for some people. They are called outliers. For the AVERAGE person PSVR is cheaper.

The number of people with no ps4 and no PC who have enough money to possibly afford VR (hundreds of millions), plus the number of people with a PS4 (~40 million) is much larger than the number of people with a gaming PC (~10 million).

For the average person, the "all in" cost of PSVR is cheaper. A PS4 + full PSVR bundle is $800. That is what Vive costs before you even get to the PC you need for it. PS4 Pro ups that to $900, but for anybody that doesn't already have a completely VR ready PC, PSVR is going to be cheaper. Nobody is arguing that PSVR is better, because it ain't. It is just cheaper.

I don't know why you wouldn't use a PS4 on your main tv but whatever, that's your issue. Most people who play console games play them on the one HDTV that they own. PSVR doesn't really need a dedicated space because most of the games for it so far are meant to be played seated.
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Wife consumes main TV time, really does not like gaming either :(. Plus VR is more a single person event - what are the rest of the folks going to do? I am sure it would be fun sharing at first but once someone gets into a game that could change rather quickly is my thoughts. Of course if you, friends and family can hold hands and sing a long while someone is playing VR (which for PS4 you can watch all the fun he/she is having) then I can see not having to buy another HDTV set. Also once someone is in VR that should free up the HDTV set meaning now you are in your VR headset and hearing sounds etc. from a source outside of your VR space. Of course you will be disrupting them as well as they you.

Now $800 is without the camera and VR controllers which would be needed. Plus who which does not own a PC and PS4 all of a sudden will have a great interest in getting either (with probably very little experience) and go to town? Very few I would think. On the PC you can get OSVR for $399, Occulus $599 and a complete VR experience for $799 on the Vive if you have a rig built in the last 5 years, I5 or faster and a decent graphics card (which you can buy for as little as $239 RX 480 8gb, $249 Gigabyte OC 1060).

Basically if you already own a PS4 your going to spend about $500 to get VR at the minimum performance level. You will need a PS4+ for a better experience I do believe meaning anyone wanting that best experience is going to be spending that $900 minus what they can sell the PS4 for.
 
Palladium@SG said:
I love how the arguments from PS4 VR detractors are in line with something like "Minecraft will never take off when the graphics look like utter shit". Something something about forest and tress.
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No, I was arguing about the expense of the two in my case. Saying PSVR is cheaper may not be that true plus you have a definite quality difference in the headsets. Now PSVR does look like it has a heads up on games or content so that is a rather big plus.
 
noko said:
No, I was arguing about the expense of the two in my case. Saying PSVR is cheaper may not be that true plus you have a definite quality difference in the headsets. Now PSVR does look like it has a heads up on games or content so that is a rather big plus.
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Actually lots of reviews out today, and for the most part, Sony hit a home run on the headset. All the ones I read mention that it is by far the most comfortable headset.

Also some have noticed that the resolution difference is inconsequential or even in Sony's favor:
Sony PlayStation VR review
"PlayStation VR actually has less of an issue with the off-putting screendoor effect seen on other headsets. Discerning and focusing on individual pixels is actually rather difficult - what PSVR lacks in terms of core resolution is offset by the use of a full RGB panel, as opposed to the pentile arrangements found elsewhere."

For this generation, the Sony Headset looks easily comparable to the others, the detriments are in Console GPU levels and the weak controllers.
 
Someone needs to pay off developers to support this niche market. Its the only thing that bought games to 3d vision especially as the market was dieing. You have to hope that this isn't a short term goal for sony like their 3d implementation.
 
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