Tesla Sues Michigan State Over Ban On Direct Sales

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Dear Michigan, we would like to introduce you to something called 'the internet' where they do something called online sales. This manner of commerce has been working out for the entire planet for more than a few years, and we think you might like it as well. Come, join everyone in 'the future!' ;)

The suit at U.S. District Court in Michigan comes days after the state rejected the electric vehicle manufacturer's application to directly sell vehicles to consumers. Unlike other automakers, Tesla does not sell vehicles through franchised dealers. Tesla's suit says it is seeking on an expedited basis an order that it is "entitled to a vehicle dealer license."
 
They should just set up a kiosk somewhere and sell the cars that way. Car dealerships are just vending machines anyway, you can just go to another one to get the exact same product.
 
So the only legit thing I've heard is that (typically) dealerships are utilized as hubs where people can take their cars for repairs. As everyone knows, plenty of manufactures have recalls that call for people to bring their vehicles in for repairs. In the case of Tesla, what do you guys imagine would happen? Tell everyone to drive to California to get their airbags fixed?

Not that I'm against direct sales, I'm just curious what everyone here would do for cases like this.
 
Cyraxx said:
So the only legit thing I've heard is that (typically) dealerships are utilized as hubs where people can take their cars for repairs. As everyone knows, plenty of manufactures have recalls that call for people to bring their vehicles in for repairs. In the case of Tesla, what do you guys imagine would happen? Tell everyone to drive to California to get their airbags fixed?

Not that I'm against direct sales, I'm just curious what everyone here would do for cases like this.
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You take your car to the Tesla store, where they do maintenance. There is one a short drive from my house. No one is going to buy a car you can't get maintained. When Tesla says direct sales, they mean they want to set up their own stores. I say unless they're going to make company-owned stores of all types illegal E.G. the Apple Store, they have to make car stores an option for carmakers. It just doesn't make any sense.
 
Same bullshit three-tier model required for alcohol distribution. Run by the unions.
It's fucking ludicrous that there are laws that prevent a company from selling their products directly to the public, and instead require someone to distribute said products.
 
skeeder said:
It's bullshit. Unions ruin this state. That's what is about. Apparently the car dealerships union too.

Ugh. Greedy Bastards.
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Rick Snyder and Company is partly to blame, and the dealership cartel are against Tesla direct sales model too.
 
I always wondered how it's always the unions when the big three benefit more from squeezing Tesla out, or forcing them into dealerships. Multiple states, same problem. But it's always the unions, must be the unions. If any vehicle manufacturer has dealers they are barred from selling directly, why it's almost like there's a National Automotive Dealers Association that lobbies tirelessly to keep dealers in the supply chain. But it's always those evil unions and their wicked, wicked ways. It can be so hard to understand...

..I know! "BEEP BOOP THE PARTY SAYS UNIONS ARE BAD, I WILL COMPLY BEEP BOOP".

Make sure you check the party manifesto update for your next supply of thoughts!
 
This is the fault of the auto companies, not the unions. The automakers lobby hard to keep Tesla out. If you're going to place blame, place it correctly. I'm a Detroit diasporan and Tesla Model 3 reservation holder, btw, I keep track of what's going on with this.

Most of you guys should be rooting for the elimination of the middlemen dealerships, based on your apparent political beliefs. They have negligible added value in the information age and could easily be replaced by all car manufacturers, were it legal. If Tesla wins, it may well become legal.

alxlwson said:
Same bullshit three-tier model required for alcohol distribution. Run by the unions.
It's fucking ludicrous that there are laws that prevent a company from selling their products directly to the public, and instead require someone to distribute said products.
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True as well and an apt analogy, maybe even the union part, I don't know. No micro-brewery likes the rules, and they're the only ones making beer that I give a shit about. The only possible reasons for the system is 1) a hold-over from post-prohibition, 2) beer distributor lobbying efforts, and 3) inertia and the intent to keep micro-brews down by the macros.
 
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Twisted Kidney said:
I always wondered how it's always the unions when the big three benefit more from squeezing Tesla out, or forcing them into dealerships. Multiple states, same problem. But it's always the unions, must be the unions. If any vehicle manufacturer has dealers they are barred from selling directly, why it's almost like there's a National Automotive Dealers Association that lobbies tirelessly to keep dealers in the supply chain. But it's always those evil unions and their wicked, wicked ways. It can be so hard to understand...

..I know! "BEEP BOOP THE PARTY SAYS UNIONS ARE BAD, I WILL COMPLY BEEP BOOP".

Make sure you check the party manifesto update for your next supply of thoughts!
Click to expand...

When a union employee threatens to shoot the place up and only gets a 45 day suspension because the union didn't want him fired then yes the union is the problem.
 
Remove the dealerships too, cut the middle man out and maybe the price of cars would go down just a little.
 
There is Tesla dealership about 20 minutes from my house, not having a greedy middleman seems to be working fine.

Third party dealerships are frankly a scam, auto manufacturers should be able to directly sell to the consumer, there is no reason they should not be able to. The new car dealership concept would not change, there just would not be another middleman looking to get his cut.

Leave the third party dealerships to the used car and buy here pay here lots.
 
termite said:
Third party dealerships are frankly a scam, auto manufacturers should be able to directly sell to the consumer, there is no reason they should not be able to. The new car dealership concept would not change, there just would not be another middleman looking to get his cut.
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Problem is it's the only way a lot of these other manufacturers can even move product. They sell to the dealer, the dealer owns the cars, the manufacturer doesn't give two shits from here, dealers problem.

Unlike the Tesla which is desirable, there are a lot of shit cars out now that would not move on their merits being online only. The salesman is required to move the boring turds. And oh man aren't they all just that now. New cars are boring as hell.
 
skeeder said:
It's bullshit. Unions ruin this state. That's what is about. Apparently the car dealerships union too.

Ugh. Greedy Bastards.
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Exactly what happened. Years ago the dealer's lobbied for these laws because they feared the direct-to-consumer model of Tesla. I'm surprising it's taken this long to sue them.

I wonder if there's any regulation on the size of the dealership. As others have said, could possibly do a kiosk or a small office that's just a front, with home "delivery" of the vehicle to the consumer.
 
skeeder said:
It's bullshit. Unions ruin this state. That's what is about. Apparently the car dealerships union too.

Ugh. Greedy Bastards.
Click to expand...

There is nothing about unions in the article. You argument sounds like absolute right-wing bullshit.
Management on the dealers would have a greater interest and a billion times more clout to get this law passed.

Silly right-winger, Unions are for PEE-ons.

Don't give a fuck if their Auto-dealers association (or whatever other de-facto organization they use for collusion) is called Auto-dealers magical peon union.

If any union would press for anything it would be for Tesla to employ ... UNION workers!! tah-dah!
 
Despite the fact there is a Tesla dealer in my city, it is nothing more than a store inside the mall with a tesla on display. If you want to test drive one they have a few parked in the general parking lot out back that they will take you to. If I had to get one repaired clearly it wouldnt be at this place, which means what exactly do I do to get it repaired? Does tesla send out a truck and ship it to the nearest repair center or something for me free of charge? I get my car back in a few days or a week or kinda like leaving it at a normal dealer anyway?
 
Uvaman2 said:
There is nothing about unions in the article. You argument sounds like absolute right-wing bullshit.
Management on the dealers would have a greater interest and a billion times more clout to get this law passed.

Silly right-winger, Unions are for PEE-ons.

Don't give a fuck if their Auto-dealers association (or whatever other de-facto organization they use for collusion) is called Auto-dealers magical peon union.

If any union would press for anything it would be for Tesla to employ ... UNION workers!! tah-dah!
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That's it exactly. The state of New Jersey did something similar a few years ago. It has absolutely nothing to do with any unions but rather the special interests group for the dealership owners. The owners believe a company selling cars with no physical presence in the state will hurt their own bottom line. They believe that a company that doesn't have to maintain a dealership and pay a sales staff will have lower overhead and can undercut the local dealerships and hurt their profits.

This has nothing to do with unions but instead lobby groups funded by the wealthy dealership owners. Some folks will push their ignorant union bashing wherever they can though, even when it has nothing to do with the topic at hand.
 
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Rev Lemmon said:
When a union employee threatens to shoot the place up and only gets a 45 day suspension because the union didn't want him fired then yes the union is the problem.
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Well that wasn't very politically correct of him, he should be more politically correct for sure. Of course threatening violence is a crime in most places, there's no justifying that behaviour.

Of course that is completely and utterly unrelated to the law in every single state, and this topic entirely. But hey "BEEP BOOP. UNIONS ARE BAD THE PARTY TOLD ME SO. HERE IS AN EXAMPLE THAT WAS INSTALLED LAST MONTH WITH THE UPDATE. BEEP BOOP."
 
To answer about service questions, first, dealerships SUCK at giving services and are only about pushing unneeded add ons to owners who do not know better, the work they do perform is often not very good and over priced. Tesla does have a truck that will come out to you, as someone asked about that, it is called the Tesla Ranger service. They also have service locations all over and are opening more all the time, it is still a young company. You also have to remember that many locations are actively stopping Tesla from putting in stores and service centers, which does not help.
 
RMCO said:
UAW is toxic as hell. I would love to see them fold. Majority of South East Michigan wouldn't be able to keep a job without the aid of the UAW.
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I worked at a plant (Continental Automotive) that was run by the UAW.

I vowed to NEVER, EVER work in a union run shop again.

I would rather beg on the street corner than work at a union shop.

The crap that went on there because of the union was insane.

Union "workers" would refuse to do their job, then when a non-union person was forced to do something, the union "worker" would file a grievance and then get paid extra because somebody else did their job.

And the union "workers" would regularly sabotage the production lines - cutting wires, removing wires, etc. so they didn't have to work.

Pretty much as long as they didn't commit murder on company property, they could get away with doing whatever they wanted.

Sure, there were a few good workers, but the majority of them deserved to be shipped off to a deserted island to learn how to fend for themselves.
 
Twisted Kidney said:
Well that wasn't very politically correct of him, he should be more politically correct for sure. Of course threatening violence is a crime in most places, there's no justifying that behaviour.

Of course that is completely and utterly unrelated to the law in every single state, and this topic entirely. But hey "BEEP BOOP. UNIONS ARE BAD THE PARTY TOLD ME SO. HERE IS AN EXAMPLE THAT WAS INSTALLED LAST MONTH WITH THE UPDATE. BEEP BOOP."
Click to expand...

If you ever work in a UAW shop, you will come to have the very strong opinion that the UAW needs to DIAF.
 
Jesus Christ, this is supposed to be a thread about Tesla attempting to sell cars directly to the public in Michigan. Take your Union bashing somewhere else.


Thread-Direction.jpg
 
Creig said:
Jesus Christ, this is supposed to be a thread about Tesla attempting to sell cars directly to the public in Michigan. Take your Union bashing somewhere else.


Thread-Direction.jpg
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I wouldn't say the thread was derailed. We were simply trying to say WHY places are trying to keep direct sales of Tesla out.

The whole reason is because of corrupt, worthless, unions and the politicians they control.
 
Okay, let bring in the 500,000 gallons of gasoline.
The law is against the constitution and Michigan will lose, utterly and completely.
All dealerships will be fucked with barbwire simultaneously once Tesla wins.
 
Cyraxx said:
So the only legit thing I've heard is that (typically) dealerships are utilized as hubs where people can take their cars for repairs. As everyone knows, plenty of manufactures have recalls that call for people to bring their vehicles in for repairs. In the case of Tesla, what do you guys imagine would happen? Tell everyone to drive to California to get their airbags fixed?

Not that I'm against direct sales, I'm just curious what everyone here would do for cases like this.
Click to expand...


Tesla has wholly owned service centers for regular maintenance and warranty repairs. They even have (had? Havent heard of it lately) a mobile service center. Essentially a truck that pulls up at your house or work, does the service and then leaves.

For people who live far from service centers they even had a free "flatbed tow to service" feature, but I hear that service is now paid.
 
Years ago the auto makers cut a deal with the government to avoid anti-trust violations and sold off their dealerships.
And since then the dealers have done everything in their power to keep it that way. However for the most part, the automakers like it that way. Instead of made to order for every single customer, dealers buy cars in bulk and that makes things easier on the manufacturing side. Tesla builds to order for the moment, so the need/want of a dealer is probably not necessary. I believe things will change in the future, 3D printing, new lighter stronger materials, the future of tech will create a lot of pressure to change the franchise laws.
 
cyclone3d said:
I wouldn't say the thread was derailed. We were simply trying to say WHY places are trying to keep direct sales of Tesla out.

The whole reason is because of corrupt, worthless, unions and the politicians they control.
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Color me ignorant, but I didn't know that there were unions for car salesmen.

Lets see, they get paid a paltry salary and can only enhance that by actually selling cars, they don't have much of a retirement or health package, I mean nothing really checking off as "union" in my mind.
 
Honestly I would love if Tesla had a strong presence here in Michigan... true I can't afford their cars living/working out here in rural Michigan. There would be a major upside to it if they did "wishful thinking I know" maybe Tesla's business model & engineering model could help spark the flame of ingenuity in the "Big 3" and possibly over time become the "Big 4"

However I agree with those above, they've got their work cut out for them in having to work with/against MANY different unions that are at various levels of corruption.
 
Skipping over comments so far, Michigan State is the school. State of Michigan would refer to the state
 
sfsuphysics said:
Color me ignorant, but I didn't know that there were unions for car salesmen.

Lets see, they get paid a paltry salary and can only enhance that by actually selling cars, they don't have much of a retirement or health package, I mean nothing really checking off as "union" in my mind.
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It is a "Dealer Association". So really, it is a union.

Follow the money.

The salesmen may make crap, but they aren't the ones that are in control of locking out direct sales.
 
Pyro411 said:
Honestly I would love if Tesla had a strong presence here in Michigan... true I can't afford their cars living/working out here in rural Michigan. There would be a major upside to it if they did "wishful thinking I know" maybe Tesla's business model & engineering model could help spark the flame of ingenuity in the "Big 3" and possibly over time become the "Big 4"

However I agree with those above, they've got their work cut out for them in having to work with/against MANY different unions that are at various levels of corruption.
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Mopar products.. never. Not until you have had to sit in on a meeting where Chrysler is demanding that an ECU be redesigned to be able to handle the huge voltage spikes in their electrical system instead of fixing the problem will you understand how crappy some of these companies are.
 
cyclone3d said:
It is a "Dealer Association". So really, it is a union.

Follow the money.

The salesmen may make crap, but they aren't the ones that are in control of locking out direct sales.
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It is not a union. It represents the OWNERS of the business not the employees. It is a lobby group for the wealthy owners. Nothing more. A union works for the interests of employees and a lobby group works for the interests of the owners of businesses within an industry. They are not the same thing though often times their interests overlap.
 
Steve said:
Dear Michigan, we would like to introduce you to something called 'the internet' where they do something called online sales. This manner of commerce has been working out for the entire planet for more than a few years, and we think you might like it as well. Come, join everyone in 'the future!' ;)

The suit at U.S. District Court in Michigan comes days after the state rejected the electric vehicle manufacturer's application to directly sell vehicles to consumers. Unlike other automakers, Tesla does not sell vehicles through franchised dealers. Tesla's suit says it is seeking on an expedited basis an order that it is "entitled to a vehicle dealer license."
Click to expand...
This is Michigan after all. The stomping ground of the US auto industry. I sense that presence of the Sith (auto unions) at work here.........
 
cyclone3d said:
It is a "Dealer Association". So really, it is a union.
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You need to stop trying to see the world through union colored glasses.

It's a lobby group. Which is a different thing than a labor union.

This is really crony capitalism.

Entrenched business has a lobby group (middlemen), that pays local representatives, for favorable legislation.

Representatives, write legislation favorable to lobby group (or lobbyists kindly write it for them) . Quid Pro Quo.

My bad. I mean lobby groups give money to fund elections campaigns, expecting nothing in return. Pure coincidence that legislation favors lobby groups that funded their campaigns. :rolleyes:

The reality is that states have various dealership laws, these are sensible fair dealing laws between franchiser/franchisee.

Basically like if you pay McDonalds for a franchise license, and spend a Million dollars building a restaurant, they can't stick a company owned version across the street and drive you out of business. Same things goes for the car industry and dealer franchises.

Many of these laws did NOT stop Tesla from operating, because it had no dealer franchises to treat unfairly.

This is where the lobby stepped in, and the law was changed in many states to force all cars sales into the franchise model.

It would be like if McDonalds and Burger King had laws updated to keep out any restaurant that wasn't a franchise.
 
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