Which 4K TV is best overall?

SixFootDuo said:

Lot of people here are getting it wrong. There is some advice on this tread that is frankly ... retarded.

The first guy to answer your tread is by far the best advice here. "I would advise you check out Rtings.com. They rate TVs based on different scenarios, movies, gaming, etc. You'll need to figure out which things you prioritize."

There is absolutely no sense in you or anyone else here wasting their time or money or banging their head against a wall trying to figuring this out. Let rtings.com do that for you ... and ... they have..

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I am seriously considering picking up the new Sony ZD9 (only 60") at the end of the month but cannot see any info on it on rtings.com yet. Will they have a report on before the end of this month? I have found plenty of articles but do you suggest I wait for a review from rtings.com before making the purchase?
I found it locally at Best Buy and discovered no banding on the demo model. They have agreed to let me open up a brand new one and test it in-store before committing to buy.

Wallmagnet said:

I am seriously considering picking up the new Sony ZD9 (only 60") at the end of the month but cannot see any info on it on rtings.com yet. Will they have a report on before the end of this month? I have found plenty of articles but do you suggest I wait for a review from rtings.com before making the purchase?
I found it locally at Best Buy and discovered no banding on the demo model. They have agreed to let me open up a brand new one and test it in-store before committing to buy.

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If you can afford it why not right? Z9D looks to be some fantastic stuff. Doesn't have the issues that come with OLED, but very similar image quality. Cost is really high though, but that backlight man.... All those zones! XD

Flexion said:

Doesn't have the issues that come with OLED, but very similar image quality. Cost is really high though, but that backlight man

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Yeah, that was the main reason I was interested in the first place. The equivalent LG OLED would cost an additional 4000 dollars, so I believe opting for the ZD9 is a great choice. No need to postpone a purchase for another 6 months.
The LG OLED would probably be better for games running at SDR, but if the consoles support HDR (Xbox one slim + PS4 Neo), then I assume the ZD9 would be superior?

Anyhow, looking mighty forward to more reviews coming out!

Crap, the ZD9 seem to have 45ms in Game Mode. You can switch on HDR but not sure how much this adds in input lag but hopefully little. Still, quite disappointed with the result. Makes it a non viable screen for fighting games...

the newest SONY ones with 4K and HDR

Ugly, just discovered that the Samsung 9590 has only 22ms in input lag! Damn, I want to go the Japanese route like I always have in the past, but this disturbs me. I was almost certain to go for the Sony ZD9 in contrast to the LG OLED G6 and Samsung 9590. Now I have to do another round of thinking...

Wallmagnet said:

Crap, the ZD9 seem to have 45ms in Game Mode. You can switch on HDR but not sure how much this adds in input lag but hopefully little. Still, quite disappointed with the result. Makes it a non viable screen for fighting games...

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Well... That's kinda why I went with the Samsung KS8500.. One reason was the input lag on it was quite good and another was the image quality is good too. It's not perfect blacks like OLED, but it doesn't have the same problems with image retention, etc. I'm using it on my desk as a monitor so I couldn't really go much larger than 55" without getting a lower than normal desk to keep the center of screen at eye level. (I wish I was taller damn it. LMAO.)

Sony has been putting out TVs with about 30-100 ms lag. I've read before that below 50 is generally acceptable for most gaming, but you are right in that those fighting games or twitchy type shooters, etc. you may be at a disadvantage.

If you need something now, maybe you could consider going with the Samsung KS8000 series because the price is dropping on them. I think the 65" are lower than $1800 now. Maybe it will give some time for Sony to make the Z9D successor better? (I can only assume that they need to process the lighting for each image and that's why the Z9D has a teeny bit more lag than Sony's least laggy displays?)

For me, as the TV was going on my desk the curve was important. I wanted to get a Sony this time around, but their mid range offerings were quite terrible at the time I was purchasing. (they've put out some new models to remedy that though.) For some reason they've decided not to do curved TVs this year. I know it's a gimmick but up close I do find the curve beneficial. Rtings.com says so too:



The KS8000 series isn't perfect though. It's great, but there is slight edge blooming when a single bright object is displayed on an all black background and when the backlight is at max some owners report some edge bleeding. Otherwise, the TV is pretty good and I think it's the best you can get without going the OLED/Z9D route.

Z9D owners seem quite happy on AVSforums though, I assume that if you're buying a TV like this you're prioritizing watching movies over gaming, so perhaps the input lag isn't such a big deal?

Best of luck with your decision. So many choices on the market now, and no perfect TV makes it difficult. =)

I think on the high end side of things the best choice would be an E6 OLED both for HDR material and non HDR. On the lowest price spectrum I've seen some impressive videos of the Vizio M-C 4K series from last yea, with a beautiful colors and a nice glossy screenr:

insoc123 said:

I think on the high end side of things the best choice would be an E6 OLED both for HDR material and non HDR. On the lowest price spectrum I've seen some impressive videos of the Vizio M-C 4K series from last yea, with a beautiful colors and a nice glossy screenr:

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Could be just the recording but did I just see some tearing on the COD BLOPS3 video? Seems like the top part the screen was drawing the images faster than the bottom trying to catch up when he was looking left and right.

Flexion said:

Could be just the recording but did I just see some tearing on the COD BLOPS3 video? Seems like the top part the screen was drawing the images faster than the bottom trying to catch up when he was looking left and right.

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Yes it could be. Don't you find the colors look great on that TV?

insoc123 said:

Yes it could be. Don't you find the colors look great on that TV?

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The picture quality is very very good on it. Just a bit of tearing on fast motion... BUT, I've heard that black ops 3 does that because on the AVSforums in the Samsung KS8000/KS8500 owners thread there were several people mentioning problems with tearing and that was of course on their Samsung TVs too.

There's usually a bit of "panel lottery" involved with Vizio (and to a degree with all other manufacturers too), but they are aggressively offering higher bang for your buck per segment. Their higher end (not highest end reference series) units like the Vizio P offer very nice full area local dimming, etc. However I've heard that an absurd number of their TVs get rejected and returned from Best Buy employees when I tried to get one there.

Ok I ended up buying Sony XBR43X800D. A Way better tv. As a matter fact 20 times better tv than crappy philips 40pfl4706 tv I had for almost 5 years. Finally got rid of it threw in trash, well someone took it for free. It's not worth anything a garbage tv. I'm very satisfied with Sony XBR43X800D. From my experience best quality tv brands are Sony, Samsung, LG, Vizio, and Panasonic. Worst tv brands. avoid them at all costs, Philips, Sceptre, Hisense, Insignia, Coby, and Dynex. Let me know if I did not mention other worse tv brands.

Just want to share my views on what is a good 4K TV (possibly)

In my case I'm just now testing Sony X830 43" UHD TV (2015) to be used as display / PC use.

First I can say that I'm not really happy as I have to take this unit back, as it has some faulty pixels, something like 10-15 clusters of brighter pixels in the center area of screen.
Overall, so far I've thought Sony quality control is good, but this unit was clearly defective. And there are some smaller issues too.

Good things
No flicker, seems to be PWM-flicker free, like mentioned in Rtings review. I took a photo at 1/25sec and couldn't see any PWM banding (vertical line + camera movement).
Good native UHD resolution. Image is very monitor like.
Supports 4:4:4 in all modes. Have to be enabled as it's off by default.
Smooth movement / motion. Unlike monitors like Philips BDM4350UC this TV produces smooth movement. Ufo test is smooth as it can be on 60Hz.
Seems to have 120Hz HD mode - might be good for some folks who play games if it works.


Bad things
The list is longer, but I just listed smaller things, overall I like the native UHD resolution, there's no lag, but there are some issues with this TV.

1. Bad quality
Package was completely factory sealed and not damaged, but the panel has small stain in center and these broken pixels.

2. Don't like the chrome foot / table stand
It's bit reflective, not too bad, but in general for monitor use, two separate feet at each edge of TV would be better and no chrome.

3 .Bad up-scaling quality (bad for desktop use)
TV uses what looks like bilinear filtering, there's very little to do anything about it.
I don't play games that much, tried GRAV in 1080p mode, it's quite OK, not much lag if any. Scaling quality is not so noticeable in game, but lines and fonts are bit blurry.
Also, NVIDIA control panel doesn't give you any better options, there's option to let GPU handle scaling - but the result is exactly the same?!
How can this be possible that in 2016 there are no different upscaling routines available, GPUs are like supercomputers.
Even Apple handles scaling of games on iPhone 6/6s a lot better. There are tons of filtering routines, why choose the worst one I wonder.

4. Horrible artifacts on certain monitor testing patterns
If anyone has this particular screen, I'd like you to test and see how Lagom.nl inversion (pixel walk) tests look.
If you setup your TV to any of modes that don't do post processing (Game, Photo-custom, Graphics) at least I'm getting horrible shadow effects.
Setting TV to game mode causes screen wide halo to emit left and right from 50% screen width covering pixel checkerboard image....
This is especially true for Game and Graphics modes, it does not happen so badly with Photo-custom mode.
There seems to be some internal settings that these modes have, that can't be adjusted in menus / settings.
Somehow this makes me think there are some shortcuts taken / bad quality, as this doesn't happen with any actual monitors I've used.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u...60911_sony_x830_inversion_pixel_walk_test.avi

5. Black and too large menus
Well this is expected as this is TV. Can't change menu positions, color adjustments take 50% of right side of screen or when tuning one parameter, 1/4 of bottom right of screen.
Also, when resolution changes, 1/5 of top of the screen is covered by black semi-transparent bar, that only shows small resolution info, and clock... why make it fill the whole upper part?
No option to disable this.

6. Brightness
This could become issue when screen gets older. Now 30/50 is quite good in dark, during bright daylight 40/50 enough, but putting screen to 50 (max) isn't that bright, but not dim either.

7. IPS-issues
I'm OK with these, I chose this TV because it has IPS panel.
2016 43" Sony has VA panel.
There's noticeable glow when booting, but back light glow didn't bother me in normal use, but then again, it never has bothered me.

I bought the Sony XBR43X800D from best buy online open box excellent condition for $577 plus tax I live in New Jersey total spent $618. Letting you guys know I highly recommend buying tv's from best buy online open box you will save a lot of money like I did. I'm very satisfied

Pecking order:
1) OLED
2) FALD LCDs
3) Edge-lit LCDs (PC monitors fit in here as well)

realworld said:

Pecking order:
1) OLED
2) FALD LCDs
3) Edge-lit LCDs (PC monitors fit in here as well)

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True up to a certain point and also it depends on what's prioritized as all of these have their inherent flaws and isn't perfect.

Currently the Sony Z9D is giving OLED's infinite blacks a run for their money, while achieving higher overall and peak brightness. The Z9D can be classified as an FALD LCD.

I personally wouldn't go OLED because of image retention/burn in issues. They've made much progress, but the problems still exist. So while OLED produces superior image quality in most cases they're more fragile than other panel tech.

When it comes to LCDs, the different panels are also better for certain applications. For places like airports, etc. a wide viewing angle is important, and resistance to image burn in/retention are also important, so IPS screens which a generally frowned upon in the HDTV business is actually the best.

I would avoid the XBR43X800D for use as a monitor. The viewing angles are poor, and on a 43'' screen the color shift / contrast loss will be very apparent. The input lag is noticeable (to me). Also, text is slightly blurry even at 4:4:4 and seemed to give me eye strain.

breve said:

I would avoid the XBR43X800D for use as a monitor. The viewing angles are poor, and on a 43'' screen the color shift / contrast loss will be very apparent. The input lag at 4k is noticeable. Also, text is slightly blurry even at 4:4:4 and seemed to give me eye strain.

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Well these are issues caused by it being a VA panel at 43" and if someone is sitting dead center as they usually do for a PC monitor it's not a problem. (the 49" is reported to be IPS according to members of the AVSforums, so that WILL have better viewing angles, BUT horribly greyish blacks and poor contrast ratios in comparison to VA.) It's only really when you have several people on different couches in a living room looking at a TV where the viewing angle is important.

Many manufacturers do well with VA panels, and if sitting at center, or near center they're not bad at all. I don't think VA panels are bad for monitors. Only if they're like larger than 65" lmao. Then yeah... the corners and outer edges might have some kind of contrast loss especially if the TV is not curved. (that is sitting close to the TV as if being used as a monitor.

On the input lag rtings.com did note that it wasn't top rated, but not horrible. The blurry 4:4:4 thing does plague many Sony TVs lately.

Flexion said:

Well these are issues caused by it being a VA panel at 43" and if someone is sitting dead center as they usually do for a PC monitor it's not a problem... Many manufacturers do well with VA panels, and if sitting at center, or near center they're not bad at all. I don't think VA panels are bad for monitors. Only if they're like larger than 65" lmao... On the input lag rtings.com did note that it wasn't top rated, but not horrible.

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I may be pickier than most, but at around 3' from the screen, on center, the edges were color shifted and had low contrast, and I believe the loss of contrast added to my eye strain.

I do not have experience with other VA panels, just the one in the XBR43X800D, but based on that I would suggest that 32'' might be the limit for VA panels in a monitor.

The input lag is not horrible, just noticeable.

breve said:

I may be pickier than most, but at around 3' from the screen, on center, the edges were color shifted and had low contrast, and I believe the loss of contrast added to my eye strain.

I do not have experience with other VA panels, just the one in the XBR43X800D, but based on that I would suggest that 32'' might be the limit for VA panels in a monitor.

The input lag at 4k is not horrible, just noticeable. At 1080P, it was unnoticeable (33ms on rtings).

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I can imagine that to be true.

The only other first hand experience I have had with VA panels prior to my 55" KS8500 (which I sit about 30" to 36" away from now) is a BenQ FP241W which was only about 24" and it was quite good, but yeah I can imagine with TVs larger than 40" and being flat screen a VA may suffer on the corners a bit from loss of contrast.

With my current screen the curve helps quite a bit and I've actually started feeling that my flat screen laptop at work is strange. hahaha. Funny how the brain works.

Flexion said:

I personally wouldn't go OLED because of image retention/burn in issues. They've made much progress, but the problems still exist. So while OLED produces superior image quality in most cases they're more fragile than other panel tech.

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Man, are you kidding me? Is this still an issue with today's TVs? Was annoying enough with arcade games and burnt picture back in the day. Didn't plasma also have this issue? Anyway, if what you stated is true, OLED TVs are OFF my list of future purchases until this is fully rectified.

Wallmagnet said:

Man, are you kidding me? Is this still an issue with today's TVs? Was annoying enough with arcade games and burnt picture back in the day. Didn't plasma also have this issue? Anyway, if what you stated is true, OLED TVs are OFF my list of future purchases until this is fully rectified.

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Don't take my word for it... Even though the article says, "Afraid you're gonna get "burned" by your new OLED TV? Fear not." I fear the problems with current OLED TVs.

What Causes OLED Burn-in and How Do I Fix It?

If you read through the article, the amount of image retention that happened in their test and the procedure required to remove it is certainly enough to turn me away from that tech. This is the LG WOLED stuff too! Not the older RGB OLEDs that suffered heavily from the blue OLEDs deteriorating 6 times faster than the other colors.

If someone only watches movies with the thing I'm sure it's 150% ok, but web browsing, any gaming, sports, etc... I just feel like I can't really enjoy something if I'm restricted to using it in a particular way.

To get permanent damage, you'd need to keep an image on the screen for well over 24 hours straight.

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From that article.

The IR stuff is overblown. Even on my old 2011 plasma, which got regular use as a PC monitor, I did not see permanent burn in until around year 4 or 5 of use. The new OLED's have a range of IR mitigating features such as auto-comp cycles that run when the panel is off and pixel shifting. I use my current E6 for computer and TV use and I go looking for IR and I don't see it. (200 hours in).

It could happen, but permanent burn in is highly, highly unlikely unless you're just constantly running a static screen for days.

breve said:

I would avoid the XBR43X800D for use as a monitor. The viewing angles are poor, and on a 43'' screen the color shift / contrast loss will be very apparent. The input lag at 4k is noticeable. Also, text is slightly blurry even at 4:4:4 and seemed to give me eye strain.

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What video card are you using?

I can't imagine why in game mode with native 4k content the input lag would actually increase....

illram said:

From that article.

The IR stuff is overblown. Even on my old 2011 plasma, which got regular use as a PC monitor, I did not see permanent burn in until around year 4 or 5 of use. The new OLED's have a range of IR mitigating features such as auto-comp cycles that run when the panel is off and pixel shifting. I use my current E6 for computer and TV use and I go looking for IR and I don't see it. (200 hours in).

It could happen, but permanent burn in is highly, highly unlikely unless you're just constantly running a static screen for days.

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I understand that and it's kinda crazy how on AVSforums you'll get a bunch of OLED owners flocking to defend their purchases with, "it's not a problem, I don't have any IR, etc." Perhaps in my hands an LG OLED may not burn in at all? or it may? I just don't want to deal with it at all or have any concern of it occurring. AT 55" the LG OLEDs were only 25% more money than my KS8500, so they were within reach. I spent a lot of time looking at them too. Just decided at the end it wasn't for me.

Sometimes I do play certain games for a few hours at a time with stats/health bars on the corners of the screen, and many sports broadcasts have logos that show on a corner of the screen constantly.

Not saying that my choice is perfect either as the KS8500 does have some flaws of its own. For me though, I'd rather accept those trade-offs than not fully enjoy my screen.

Really I know... OLED picture quality is insanely good, but my own feelings about the possibility of the burn in just wouldn't let me fully enjoy one if I purchased it. (Knowing me I'd have a stopwatch timing/logging how many hours I've had it on and an alarm set to tell me to change games every 60 minutes. LMAO.)

I've read a lot of posts both on avsforum.com and at Youtube by OLED owners that say they game a lot, one even 12 hours straight, and have not experience any burn in and in the worst case, just some image retention that goes away in 2-3 hours and it's not noticeable.

I haven't read though anyone using an OLED tv as a regular every day/every time use monitor.

insoc123 said:

I've read a lot of posts both on avsforum.com and at Youtube by OLED owners that say they game a lot, one even 12 hours straight, and have not experience any burn in and in the worst case, just some image retention that goes away in 2-3 hours and it's not noticeable.

I haven't read though anyone using an OLED tv as a regular every day/every time use monitor.

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It's been a non-issue for me. I never bother to hide the HUDs on games and never had any issues with burn-in or IR. I have an older EC9300 that is 1.5 yrs old now and a new C6 and haven't had any issues. Given the experience I've had with my EC9300 I'm completely confident in OLED tech. I still wouldn't use it as a desktop monitor but for gaming and such I don't worry at all.

I am familiar with burn-in/IR on Plasma and these OLEDs are a lot more resilient to it. I will say however I keep the OLED light on the lower side, so I'm not sure if that plays a role. Around 40-50 is plenty bright for me though.

The only instances of IR I've seen are with store demo units but a) they have the OLED light usually maxed out at 100 and b) the units may not be getting shut down properly at the end of the day causing the wear leveling algorithm to not run.

coolhandm3 said:

What video card are you using? I can't imagine why in game mode with native 4k content the input lag would actually increase...

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I have a NVIDIA GeForce GTX 960. Input lag seemed higher at 4k than at 1080P, but I have no conclusive proof.

EDIT: RTings has proven me wrong (33.3ms at 1080P, 35.3ms at 4k), so I guess 33-35ms input lag is noticeable to me.

insoc123 said:

I've read a lot of posts both on avsforum.com and at Youtube by OLED owners that say they game a lot, one even 12 hours straight, and have not experience any burn in and in the worst case, just some image retention that goes away in 2-3 hours and it's not noticeable.

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I've seen person there who got burn-in from black bars watching the different aspect ratios during normal TV daily use - now he can see faint lines where black bars edges are. He was insisting its very faint and not bothering him, but I know it would surely bother me (not to say would definitely drop resale value significantly).

Flexion said:

Really I know... OLED picture quality is insanely good, but my own feelings about the possibility of the burn in just wouldn't let me fully enjoy one if I purchased it. (Knowing me I'd have a stopwatch timing/logging how many hours I've had it on and an alarm set to tell me to change games every 60 minutes. LMAO.)

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This is certainly a problem for me. Because there is always a chance it can happen, I will constantly be worried about using the device for longer periods and especially for sports and games with life bars and huds. Because of my history with arcade games and plasmas, I am even concerned gaming on non IR susceptible screens, that's how paranoid I have become. So in other words, I'd rather get a screen that I know won't suffer from this issue. At least I can fully relax and enjoy my on-screen entertainment worry-free.

Wallmagnet said:

This is certainly a problem for me. Because there is always a chance it can happen, I will constantly be worried about using the device for longer periods and especially for sports and games with life bars and huds. Because of my history with arcade games and plasmas, I am even concerned gaming on non IR susceptible screens, that's how paranoid I have become. So in other words, I'd rather get a screen that I know won't suffer from this issue. At least I can fully relax and enjoy my on-screen entertainment worry-free.

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I'll just leave this here then:

Samsung launches huge 10-year TV warranty for ‘screen burn-in’

I mean... I'll be honest at the mid range the KS8000/KS8500 do have the disadvantage of being edge lit and hence have slight issues with blooming around bright objects on an all black background and minute amounts of edge bleed when the backlight is at the max level in a dark room. However, I just want to say that this TV is crazy bright when the backlight is set 1/2 way at 10 (max is 20) and those issues are easily mitigated. No TV is perfect, but for those who are even the least bit worried about screen burn in, Samsung knows where their strength is, so they're offering this 10 year warranty against burn ins on their 2016 quantum dot TVs.

Again, I'm not trying to take away from OLEDs picture quality prowess, just that there are some of us who are borderline abusive with their TVs LMAO. In theory the quantum dot TVs should not burn in, that's all. (I'm saying in theory, because I don't think anyone has tested quantum dots for over 10 years yet. hahaha.) From my perspective, 1-1.5 years of ownership of use isn't a good enough indication on whether there will be burn in or not. If LG decides to announce a 5 year warranty against burn in for all their OLEDs, then yeah... I'll jump on that right away. (I want my electronics to last usually anywhere from 5-10 years anyways.)

Rtings updated all their input lag testing for 4K and HDR. The KS8000 looks even better now for it's price...low input lag numbers across the board. Very compelling case for best gaming TV for it's price range with these new lag numbers. Vizio P, the other 4K set in that price range and putting aside it's other fault of lack of true 4:4:4, has 3x the input lag in HDR mode...

Flexion said:

I'll just leave this here then:

Samsung launches huge 10-year TV warranty for ‘screen burn-in’

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Oh, great, warranty against burn-in on LCD screens! Pretty safe bet I'd say, esp. considering Samsung pull-out of OLED televisions market

Do you know that their "quantum dot display" is just edge-lit LCD display? Only difference that backlight diffuser sheet is using Quantum Dot phosphor which converts blue light from LEDs to wide-gamut white. This basically like old wide gamut LED panels, only difference is better phosphor tech.

If (and only if) Samsung ever makes *QLED* display (when each pixel is individual quantum dot led), than this "warranty" will have relevance. For now, they didn't even announce anything remotely close.

RidingTheFlow said:

Oh, great, warranty against burn-in on LCD screens! Pretty safe bet I'd say, esp. considering Samsung pull-out of OLED televisions market

Do you know that their "quantum dot display" is just edge-lit LCD display? Only difference that backlight diffuser sheet is using Quantum Dot phosphor which converts blue light from LEDs to wide-gamut white. This basically like old wide gamut LED panels, only difference is better phosphor tech.

If (and only if) Samsung ever makes *QLED* display (when each pixel is individual quantum dot led), than this "warranty" will have relevance. For now, they didn't even announce anything remotely close.

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What are you trying to say here? This warranty is exactly what it is. It's just a show of confidence that their 2016 quantum dot displays shouldn't burn in. That's it.

All that other stuff you say in your post has nothing to do with mine. The warranty has relevance now as it directly applicable to 2016 SUHD TVs.

Samsung pulled out of the OLED TV business, because their OLED tech was inferior to that of LGs. The RGB OLEDs suffered from the blue ones deteriorating much faster than the other colors, causing displays to become more and more yellow through time. (not a lot of time either! It just wasn't viable tech.)

Yeah... The current SUHD TVs are indeed edge lit LCDs and all that info about quantum dots is widely available. My KS8500 is edge lit. I'm not saying that it's perfect, but it won't burn in like an OLED. I'd take the shortcomings of my current TV over worrying about image retention or burn in any day, and that's why I got my TV. I know exactly how SUHD TVs work and what quantum dot displays are.

Samsung will make QLED eventually but it's several years away. If it is an emmisive type of LED it may very well suffer from the same issues current OLEDs have or it may not. No one really knows until it's out. Samsung is claiming that its QLED will indeed not, but who the hell knows? LMAO.

Again, the 10 year warranty thing is just a show of confidence from Samsung. "Burn in" does happen on regular LCDs, it's more accurately known as image retention or some people refer to it as pixel fatigue. (sounds funny haha.) You can see it at airports sometimes, or any other display that's running 24/7. One of the other guys in this thread has an old Dell IPS that suffers from some image retention. Samsung is probably just confident that LCDs with quantum dots won't have any perceptible burn in for over 10 years. It's good marketing/promotion for people like me who are worried about something like that.

Gosh with all of the disclaimer type comments in my previous posts here I would have figured the OLED fanboys would be appeased, but apparently not.

XD

breve said:

I have a NVIDIA GeForce GTX 960. Input lag seemed higher at 4k than at 1080P, but I have no conclusive proof.

EDIT: RTings has proven me wrong (33.3ms at 1080P, 35.3ms at 4k), so I guess 33-35ms input lag is noticeable to me.

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Yea, I just saw they put up 4k native results for lag!! The sony is running 4:4:4 at 4k at 35ms, not bad at all as long as I turn vsync off.

The interesting thing with these new 4k results is running any samsung at 4k with 4:4:4 shows higher lag then the sony, about 38ms is what they are showing for the samsung and the samsungs have pwm too which I hate.

Also the pixel response is twice as fast on the sony versus any of the 2016 samsungs which is good for gaming.

Rtings is killing it with all this great info, easily the best site for in-depth tv reviews, by far!!

Looks like the 43x800d is going to be my 4k pc monitor ....

illram said:

Rtings updated all their input lag testing for 4K and HDR. The KS8000 looks even better now for it's price...low input lag numbers across the board. Very compelling case for best gaming TV for it's price range with these new lag numbers. Vizio P, the other 4K set in that price range and putting aside it's other fault of lack of true 4:4:4, has 3x the input lag in HDR mode...

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That's because KS8000 does HDR poorly (severe blooming due to it being an edge-lit). Instead of brightening an area of the screen, it affects the other unintended areas; black. All the advanced sets like the OLEDs and high-end FALD LCDs does HDR correctly at the cost of higher input lag.

Honestly, I wouldn't buy a TV today based on HDR. It's still an unfinished beta toy for now. Too many changes made to its specs is simply ridiculous for the consumers.

Flexion said:

From my perspective, 1-1.5 years of ownership of use isn't a good enough indication on whether there will be burn in or not. If LG decides to announce a 5 year warranty against burn in for all their OLEDs, then yeah... I'll jump on that right away. (I want my electronics to last usually anywhere from 5-10 years anyways.)

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My sentiment exactly. This 10 year warranty is brilliant. Hopefully this becomes a standard after a while for all manufacturers. Still have my appointment at the end of the month for the Sony ZD9

Wallmagnet said:

[QUOTE="Flexion]From my perspective, 1-1.5 years of ownership of use isn't a good enough indication on whether there will be burn in or not. If LG decides to announce a 5 year warranty against burn in for all their OLEDs, then yeah... I'll jump on that right away. (I want my electronics to last usually anywhere from 5-10 years anyways.)

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My sentiment exactly. This 10 year warranty is brilliant. Hopefully this becomes a standard after a while for all manufacturers. Still have my appointment at the end of the month for the Sony ZD9 [/QUOTE]

Aww man... The Z9D should be really amazing.. Hopefully Sony will make curved TVs again (I don't have my fingers crossed) and the master backlight tech will be mainstream (read cheaper and more affordable) like 5 years from now. hahaha. Please share some photos, etc.

realworld said:

That's because KS8000 does HDR poorly (severe blooming due to it being an edge-lit). Instead of brightening an area of the screen, it affects the other unintended areas; black. All the advanced sets like the OLEDs and high-end FALD LCDs does HDR correctly at the cost of higher input lag.

Honestly, I wouldn't buy a TV today based on HDR. It's still an unfinished beta toy for now. Too many changes made to its specs is simply ridiculous for the consumers.

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Is that a hardware thing though or a software thing? I would assume that a processor needing to coordinate edge lighting with HDR effects wouldn't have less lag than, say, an emmissive panel which doesn't necessarily do more processing beyond simply decoding the HDR metadata? I wonder if LG could upgrade their firmware to get lower lag on HDR like Samsung did, given the inherent advantage an emissive panel has.

But yes I wouldn't make an HDR purchase right now for HDR gaming, probably. Especially since we don't know what HDR gaming is going to look like... But I think if you want an HDR TV for just movies or TV, it's probably a safe bet to go for an OLED or FALD right now since input lag is meaningless for HDR viewing purposes. The LG and the P series have both HDR10 and DV compatibility so you aren't locked into either. It's sad the ZD9 does not have DV.

Flexion said:

My sentiment exactly. This 10 year warranty is brilliant. Hopefully this becomes a standard after a while for all manufacturers. Still have my appointment at the end of the month for the Sony ZD9

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You guys know the 10 year burn in thing is basically just Samsung trolling LG right? There is no need for any such warranty thanks to the panel tech, it is purely a dig at OLED. (Ironic, given that Samsung is the current leading panel manufacturer of OLED's, but for phones...)

illram said:

You guys know the 10 year burn in thing is basically just Samsung trolling LG right? There is no need for any such warranty thanks to the panel tech, it is purely a dig at OLED. (Ironic, given that Samsung is the current leading panel manufacturer of OLED's, but for phones...)

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Yeah I know. I think that's what RidingTheFLow is trying to say but am not sure? XD

With regards to HDR, personally I don't think it's such a big deal, but that's me... I bought my TV knowing it would mostly be a monitor and honestly even if someone owns a 4K TV with no HDR at all or one that doesn't have the popular spec, it's not as if they're going to be staring at a black screen with no video when they pop in a piece of media with the HDR metadata. They just won't get the HDR benefit.

I mean personally I just didn't want to keep using my 40" 1080p TV as a display for my 1080GTX cards... Also, figured that if I was going to pay $1300 for an X34 Predator I may as well pay a couple hundred more and get a 55" UHD curved TV.