The Age of Apple is Over

Cmdrmonkey said:
Say what you will about Steve Jobs. The guy was a brilliant con man. He was exceptionally good at taking existing technology, making it seem like he invented it, and then hyping the shit out of it. Apple no longer has anyone like that. They've become boring.
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The thing you are missing or forgetting is that just like most great inventions... His innovations were all "that seems obvious why didn't I think of that?"

While I totally agree they for sure had marketing and that hipster vibe going for it, they were different in that Steve saw the products as a typical user would. Even today tech still has common sense usability issues, you can practically see how UIs and software are designed by an engineer rather that a typical user. Its just human nature you make things in a way that makes sense to YOU. Problem is most people are not software programmers.

I remember when the iPod came out and took over the world. There were good MP3 players out there, iPod still got cudos for ease of use. All the techies declared drag and drop into file explorer was as easy as it gets. Apple was all brainwashing marketing. I was in that camp, I thought files and folders made sooooo much sense and were easy or at least as easy as crappy itunes.

After I tried to explain the concept of files and folders on a computer, comparing it to physical files and folders (which seems obvious) and receiving nothing but blank stares and empty nods of "understanding"... it occurred to me.... Many people just don't think that way and what an easy concept for me was difficult to others. I was the engineer, confident my way made sense and was easy... though in practical terms to "normal" people it was not.


Steve Jobs had a vision of what these devices would be for the typical person, he focused on doing the few important things well... battery, camera, email, internet, integration with other apple products... and he was right. He built a good and easy "just works" products for normal people... the 90% and not wasting nearly as much time and effort on the 10%.
 
steakman1971 said:
If we factor out the headphone jack controversy, the new iPhone is a pretty solid device. It has a faster GPU, CPU, more ram, better camera, etc. Anything earth-shattering, have to have it? No, but still solid.
If the headphone jack is a big issue, at least this is well-covered and will hopefully cut down on uninformed buyers.
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More ram? I thought it had 2GB, which is the same as last year's model. All in all, I'm glad I bought this used 6s+ in January and I hope that next year's model kicks ass (and has a decent way to charge and listen to headphones simultaneously.
 
dandirk said:
The thing you are missing or forgetting is that just like most great inventions... His innovations were all "that seems obvious why didn't I think of that?"

While I totally agree they for sure had marketing and that hipster vibe going for it, they were different in that Steve saw the products as a typical user would. Even today tech still has common sense usability issues, you can practically see how UIs and software are designed by an engineer rather that a typical user. Its just human nature you make things in a way that makes sense to YOU. Problem is most people are not software programmers.

I remember when the iPod came out and took over the world. There were good MP3 players out there, iPod still got cudos for ease of use. All the techies declared drag and drop into file explorer was as easy as it gets. Apple was all brainwashing marketing. I was in that camp, I thought files and folders made sooooo much sense and were easy or at least as easy as crappy itunes.

After I tried to explain the concept of files and folders on a computer, comparing it to physical files and folders (which seems obvious) and receiving nothing but blank stares and empty nods of "understanding"... it occurred to me.... Many people just don't think that way and what an easy concept for me was difficult to others. I was the engineer, confident my way made sense and was easy... though in practical terms to "normal" people it was not.


Steve Jobs had a vision of what these devices would be for the typical person, he focused on doing the few important things well... battery, camera, email, internet, integration with other apple products... and he was right. He built a good and easy "just works" products for normal people... the 90% and not wasting nearly as much time and effort on the 10%.
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The Rio Karma was still a better DAP, IMNSHO. I know I was ready to buy an iPod and I found out it couldn't do gapless playback. I was like, "Wuh?" I could do that in software players, so why was this expensive h/w device incapable of doing it? The karma did things by album, artist and various other ways (which I believe largely mirroed the iPod) and they tossed in a real EQ. It didnt' look like a white refrigerator (so the iPod had the karma on that front...really they did), but I bought the Karma. And it wasn't just me, virtually every site that reviewed DAPs said the Karma was the iPod's equal. Unfortunately, they couldn't top the marketing muscle of Apple. I remember really wanting the successor but eventually they dropped it, closed shop, sold off their IP and what was released never had enough storage for me to upgrade.

I didn't retire it until I got my iPhone 6 2 years ago.
 
dandirk said:
I remember when the iPod came out and took over the world. There were good MP3 players out there, iPod still got cudos for ease of use. All the techies declared drag and drop into file explorer was as easy as it gets. Apple was all brainwashing marketing. I was in that camp, I thought files and folders made sooooo much sense and were easy or at least as easy as crappy itunes.
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There were tons of great MP3 players out, cheap to super high end. The issue those MP3 players had was non-ease of use. About all they had was drag and drop capability, the software that came with them for organizing the music was trash and often crapped out didn't do what you wanted. When Apple incorporated iTunes, an easy way to sort your music, set up ANY play list you wanted, an expansive music store (although that early DRM sucked...) and the fact that it all auto updated for you when you connected your device was super icing on the cake. I was only partially intrigued by my iPod and went back to using my Nomad. The Nomad was friggin huge though !!!
 
Cyraxx said:
Apple is based entirely on a handful of products that generate 95%+ of their revenue - usually centering on 1 or 2.

It is not Microsoft, it will never be the enterprise mecca equivalent of Microsoft.
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You do realize that Microsoft exists today because of 1 or 2 products, right? Microsoft Windows (the personal computer operating system) and Microsoft Office (their business productivity software suite and the real cash cow).

Without those two products alone, Microsoft would not exist today.

And considering that both products have a roughly 95% share of their respective markets - Windows is and has been and always will be the dominant personal computer operating system and Office is and has been and always will be the dominant business productivity software suite - I would say your entire argument about Apple not being like Microsoft at all is thus rendered entirely moot.

nilepez said:
The Rio Karma was still a better DAP, IMNSHO.
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BROFIST!!! :D

The Rio Karma is, was, and forevermore shall be the best DAP ever made, period, end of story. I miss mine desperately, did an upgrade to it years ago with a 60GB 1.8" hard drive and it worked great. I eventually sold it to someone that really wanted it and paid a princely sum for it but I do regret letting it go. I keep an eye on eBay for any Rio Karmas in good working condition but they are so unbelievably rare these days. It's like they never existed in some respects because they are so incredibly difficult to locate anywhere.

Long live the Rio Karma...

Rio_Karma.jpg
 
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What does it matter? Apple simply owns the younger generation of consumers here in the US. Virtually everyone college-age and younger who isn't a tech nerd, from my observations, are Mac and iPhone loyalists without even an ounce of consideration for alternatives. It would take a monumental stumble for Apple to lose these folks' business.

I say all this as someone who despises almost everything about Apple and has literally never owned a product of theirs in my life, BTW.
 
I think everyone is taking this the wrong way and journalists should have a fuckin brain that can think.

The reason for not a major redesign for the iphone 7 is simple. They did enough to get by for another year.

Next year its iphone's 10th anniversary. You can bet your rear end that apple will have something special. This is like they broke the cycle of major redesign every two years and left it for their 10th anniversary. Anyone with a brain to add 1+1 should know this.

I think they will make the jump to iphone 8 next year instead of the 7s. That will be 3 years from iphone 6 and I am sure they planned it this way for the 10th anniversary. I am holding out for next year and I am actually pretty confident we will see some big changes next year.
 
Samsung Galaxy s4 5 6 7 has hardly changed i dont see countless articles on those? lol

what about the hand grenade notes? or the craptastic android OS
 
-Strelok- said:
Maybe today was the wrong day for an article like this. The entire market is down and Apple is up due to positive preorder data and reviews. It's ok though, this is the year guys, APPLE IS DEAD!
:rolleyes:
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And it's the year for Linux on the Desktop as well!

M76 said:
I remember we were quite excited for Windows 95, it was this new cool thing, we wanted to try immediately.
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It wasn't the cool new thing for me, or any of the tech people I was around. We despised that piece of junk software, until about Revision C., which by then had the worst bugs ironed out. Explorer was no where near as good as File Manager, you lost almost all functionality of Write in Word Pad. Oh, but you did get to see your pretty background picture all the time, since you couldn't find your programs in the Start Menu (which you have to click on Start to Stop your computer). Still to this day, I see people who save everything to their desktop, because of the mess of Windows 95 interface that refuses to die.
 
-Strelok- said:
The problem is this shit is flung around every single year, and has been wrong for what, 10+ years now?
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Everything that is successful has it's own group of haters. So what? If you're bothered by that then you're the one being overly sensitive. You take someone craptalking your chosen brand as a personal insult to you. It's not healthy. Apple doesn't need you to defend it's honor they're fine.

Did you even read the article? I don't think this particular theory has been around that much. And I think it does have some merit to it. Apple was pretty scarce with innovation recently. Of course the conclusion that the company is going down the tubes is just a hater's wishful thinking, but otherwise it has a point.
 
Grimdaria said:
Another Apple shaming article? *sigh*

So, the iPhone 7 added nothing earth-shaking. Show me another phone that has.
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Not so much the iPhone 7 didn't nothing earth-shaking, but it did take a step back by removing the headphone jack.
 
Don't have to read the article, I've known the distortion field is down for the longest time now. This isn't some quick jab at apple this is to say that I think Job's biggest asset wasn't anything he directed but the way he could take a pencil, smooth it's shape, paint it a grey, slap an apple logo on it then talk to you for five minutes about how innovative it was (not just better) - and you'd believe him.

This was not passed on and the company seems to have a problem with vision. This has been known for a long time.

What is really telling is if you watch a bad and overly flash movie trailer you'll be familiar with a few cliches. If you look at any of the reveal videos in this years stream you'll find them in every single one. BBBBBBBBMMmmmmmmmmmmmm!

Apple use to start cliches, not follow them.
 
The 7 is a stopgap so that they can bring the most interesting things for the 10th ann. 8th ed. You can't expect to be wowed every single year. Samsung has not wowed me every year either. once the 8 is out I'll compare it with whatever flagship Samsung has and pick one. I'm on a 3-4 year phone cycle, I have no need for a new phone every year or two.

Apple is a bit preposterous, with their "Magic" and "amazing" and high prices but you usually get a good product and the S7 is similarly priced. Can't say I'd own any of their other products though.
 
NKD said:
I think everyone is taking this the wrong way and journalists should have a fuckin brain that can think.

The reason for not a major redesign for the iphone 7 is simple. They did enough to get by for another year.

Next year its iphone's 10th anniversary. You can bet your rear end that apple will have something special. This is like they broke the cycle of major redesign every two years and left it for their 10th anniversary. Anyone with a brain to add 1+1 should know this.

I think they will make the jump to iphone 8 next year instead of the 7s. That will be 3 years from iphone 6 and I am sure they planned it this way for the 10th anniversary. I am holding out for next year and I am actually pretty confident we will see some big changes next year.
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I can only imagine what their next great innovation will be for that release too. Maybe they will have the "courage" to remove the lightning port all together, claiming wireless charging is the way of the future. Look Ma! No wires!
 
nothing great since Jobs departure. those were big shoes to fill.

macs are great but dislike itunes and iphones....meh
 
Inevitable, as these personality driven monoliths loose cult icons and are forced to diversify to replace fading revenue from aging and increasingly less interesting product lines.
 
Tiberian said:
You do realize that Microsoft exists today because of 1 or 2 products, right? Microsoft Windows (the personal computer operating system) and Microsoft Office (their business productivity software suite and the real cash cow).

Without those two products alone, Microsoft would not exist today.

And considering that both products have a roughly 95% share of their respective markets - Windows is and has been and always will be the dominant personal computer operating system and Office is and has been and always will be the dominant business productivity software suite - I would say your entire argument about Apple not being like Microsoft at all is thus rendered entirely moot.
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Greatly oversimplifying here. There's a lot of cash cows in the enterprise side of MS. Azure, SQL, Exchange are just a few examples. MS may not make money on Xbox hardware, but they surely make a ton on licensing and Xbox services. MS is a lot more diversified than just two products, and has been for a long time.
 
They have billions of dollars in cash and no debt. It's on them if they sit on the war chest forever just to avoid taxes.
 
If Jobs' consciousness is somewhere, and it can read this article, I think it's sayin':

YUP
 
Design1stcode2nd said:
You can't expect to be wowed every single year. Samsung has not wowed me every year either. once the 8 is out I'll compare it with whatever flagship Samsung has and pick one. I'm on a 3-4 year phone cycle, I have no need for a new phone every year or two.
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What it boils down to is that cell phones in general have become a commodities, where the differences between them have become virtually zero outside of branding. I've been back and forth between Apple and Android devices since Iphone 3GS and replacing it with a Droid phone of some flavor. I've kept with Apple as of late since my past Android phones have been crap (HTC) after a year or so. Its gotten to the point (for me) that it "just works" with no issues and does what I need with it...would I try another Android phone? Why not? But right now there isn't a driving need for me to do so nor am I fed up with the Apple ecosystem either to make me change.

Coming out with something that "wows" every year is next to impossible IMO now...what else can a phone do? Making a smartphone last a week on a single charge would be wow for me..just like the old Nokias in the late 1990s used to to LOL :)
 
Yeah, these guys have been saying Apple's been done since Steve Jobs passed away, and they're still shattering sales records. The author highlights that the iPhone 7 has "no significant upgrades", but he fails to report that the pre-orders have been huge and the stock, which initially was down because people listened to guys like him, has climbed a few dollars per share this week alone.

Apple is the only company I know of that can consistently make billions in revenue and cause people to panic about its future.
 
Apple still has a much tighter user experience and a better understanding of what buyers want than their competitors. They could easily be the ones to release the definitive products in upcoming spaces like AR, home automation, and software that integrates devices with cars. All Apple needs is someone else to blaze the trail but botch the execution and they're in a few years later with the first version of some new thing that people actually want to buy. Maybe they'll play it safe from now on and become Microsoft or Sony or IBM like the article says, but people who have declared that Apple's star is fading have been proven wrong for a long time now.
 
HockeyJon said:
Apple is the only company I know of that can consistently make billions in revenue and cause people to panic about its future.
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That happens because in general people are really fucking stupid, but that also happens to be exactly why Apple makes billions - that 40%+ profit margin on every product they sell (some items reach into the thousands of percent) is certainly not a drop in the bucket.
 
brettjrob said:
What does it matter? Apple simply owns the younger generation of consumers here in the US. Virtually everyone college-age and younger who isn't a tech nerd, from my observations, are Mac and iPhone loyalists without even an ounce of consideration for alternatives. It would take a monumental stumble for Apple to lose these folks' business.

I say all this as someone who despises almost everything about Apple and has literally never owned a product of theirs in my life, BTW.
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A lot of s/w devs like Macs, because the UI is solid and it's great if you do a lot with *nix server development. A good friend has been a PC guy forever but after a year or so on a Mac at work he's going to by a Mac whenever he upgrades.
 
nilepez said:
A lot of s/w devs like Macs, because the UI is solid and it's great if you do a lot with *nix server development. A good friend has been a PC guy forever but after a year or so on a Mac at work he's going to by a Mac whenever he upgrades.
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Yeah, to clarify my previous post: it's not to say that tech nerds and devs don't like or use Apple. Just that virtually everyone in the US under ~25 who isn't in the tech world adores them. I think their supremacy, and the embarrassment associated with using anything else, have almost become unquestioned dogma to this generation. That attitude is ingrained and here to stay, which is why it's laughable to proclaim that Apple is going away (or even slipping much) anytime in the foreseeable future, at least in this part of the world.

Regarding devs, as well: I'm not a professional dev, but I work in scientific research where everyone codes on a daily basis, and I agree with what you're saying. From my experience talking with colleagues/friends who are Mac diehards, I dare say that the "herd mentality" can apply even in this community. I've witnessed numerous overnight conversions from PC/Android/etc. to Apple everything, and many of them were, frankly, people who only superficially (at best) understood the pros and cons at the time of the conversion. Macs have plenty of real strengths that can justify their use in various settings, the Unix base being among the largest. But still, even in the world of devs and coders, plenty of folks hop on the bandwagon for reasons that are less than rational (oftentimes clumsily grasping for rational reasons as a cover, in my experience). It's quite a phenomenon.
 
Well, I still have my Zune 64 GB HD, so there. It works great, the battery still, somehow, lasts like 15 hours or so.
 
Apple's dominance ebbs and wanes. Remember the Apple of the 90's? Cream-colored boxes that rarely worked properly? Power PCs that had to emulate 68K Macs just to run the OS? They didn't pick back up until Steve came back.

Right now I'd say Apple is stuck in a rut and unless they come up with something killer they're going to remain there. At least they're not bleeding customers like they were in the 90s, although that could be a risk if someone else comes up with that killer feature.
 
GT98 said:
What it boils down to is that cell phones in general have become a commodities, where the differences between them have become virtually zero outside of branding. I've been back and forth between Apple and Android devices since Iphone 3GS and replacing it with a Droid phone of some flavor. I've kept with Apple as of late since my past Android phones have been crap (HTC) after a year or so. Its gotten to the point (for me) that it "just works" with no issues and does what I need with it...would I try another Android phone? Why not? But right now there isn't a driving need for me to do so nor am I fed up with the Apple ecosystem either to make me change.

Coming out with something that "wows" every year is next to impossible IMO now...what else can a phone do? Making a smartphone last a week on a single charge would be wow for me..just like the old Nokias in the late 1990s used to to LOL :)
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This, exactly this - end of thread. :) Apple makes a superior product in that the entire ecosystem around it generally just works and works very well (relatively speaking). Cell phones are commodities now and are quickly approaching peak-ownership. There's not a real lot to make wild innovations on is there? The phone is generally just a big screen. Until we're at flexible cell phones or augmented reality based cell-phones, it's just iterative improvements. For people so immersed in the tech field, this should be obvious.
 
Aireoth said:
I wouldn't say Apple is the new Microsoft, if anything Apple is following the same trajectory of Sony.

Start with establishing a name as a accessible, high quality, proprietary tech company.

Progressively pollute their own eco-system with phased updates and planned obsolescence to their own proprietary technology.

Refuse to acknowledge changing market place due to increasing competition.

Slowly lose market share.

The next steps would be sporadically releasing 'new' and 'amazing' proprietary technology that continues to be less successful than prior generations, and respond by cutting product lines and services.

At this point, Apple is so large and has so much equity they can follow the decades long slide of Sony almost verbatim.

This is not a bad thing, innovation cannot continually come from one source, Apple had its rising sun. I'd say its about mid-day now.
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I definitely think you picked the better business analog for Apple. The only thing being really different is that apple has embraced a number of industry standards without much fight, and hasn't tried to undo a number of industry standards that had obviously succeeded until we hit the headphone jack. When they ditched the optical drive, it was because it was a dying technology and wasn't replaced by a competing standard really. Apple declared the headphones dead to introduce new headphones.
 
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