Symantec Demonstrates How Voting Machines Can Be Compromised

The only electronics should be to analyze your ballot for clarity and reject it you screwed it up.
Quix said:
These machines are garbage, there have been a constant stream of vulnerabilities and hacks, most of which have been laughably simple. And considering that they all print out a receipt anyway you're not saving any work. Might as well just use paper ballots.
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Part of the problem nobody wants to be the next Florida 2000. I'm sure the price-tag for that fiasco wasn't small. These have been designed with eliminating the physical evidence in mind for that purpose as well as 'other' purposes.
 
Dekoth-E- said:
I hope you aren't implying that the republicans are any better. From an unbiased perspective both parties are equally corrupt.
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So say people who want to feel justified when they do it. And an excuse to not look objectively at the process nor to clean up their own house.
 
Extra-Titanian said:
I'd imagine that the best/most secure method would involve integrating smart chips into our ID's/Drivers Licenses, and either adding a certificate to it when you register to vote (unlikely as that'd potentially be leaking the admin key outside of the card issuer), or enrolling a public subkey in some sort of "registered voter" database. Which brings up all sorts of privacy concerns, but that could be mitigated by restricting what associated information is stored with it. When voting electronically (could be a fucking touch screen with the picture of the candidates face for all it matters), that vote is signed with the private key held on the card and submitted. That privately signed vote is authenticated against the previously submitted public key and annotated as being used. Assuming that an individual is properly restricted to having only one valid unique drivers licence/ID, it's not possible to vote multiple times on the same card/private key. As long as everything is properly set up and implemented, maintaining the integrity of the voter system would be trivial. But of course, one segment of our political system views poor people as too stupid to be expected to provide identification, so it's all moot.
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That appears to be well thought out, but does it allow people to see who you've voted for? Being free to vote for who you want without repercussions is a big part of voting.
 
text in your votes. worked for american idol. likely get more participation as well.
 
I think most are missing the point.
'Hackable' = deniability.
The code on these machines are trade secrets.. it could very well have an algorithm that re-writes the results to whatever they want NO INTERVENTION/ 'HACKING' NEEDED, only the update for each election... not only that, very very few people need to be involved to do this, Im pretty sure only one coder would need to know, and it can happen after all the normal company employees have done their job..... no massive voter conspiracy needed.. of some other nonsense bullshit... you don't want to reverse big margins of course.
These machines are built for fraud.. but not voter fraud, but election fraud.. no paper receipt, closed unverifiable software, machines made by big ass government-contracted companies, AND built in plausible deniability by making them pretty much intentionally unsecured, cause you know, Russian hackers are going to be blamed if the fraud being committed is found out in a more determined (but it will always be difficult) manner.
Yeah, but since we instituted these fraud machines, we also tell our selves exit polling is crap.
Are exit polls accurate?
It is all about perception, as long as the masses believe they have input, the ruling class has done their job.. the minute the masses start gaining some actual power, it is reversed, but making sure the perception/belief remains.
 
Dekoth-E- said:
I don't believe you understand how mandatory unique ID's actually function. The current system and especially paper ballots with no form of unique ID for voters has already proven a massive failure in respect to security. If anything digital have at least in part eliminated "some" of the dead person voting or busloads of people being driven to different district fraud. The answer is to continue improving the digital system, not abandon it for a system that is proven broken and unable to be secured.
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Ok, so now you have your chipped registered ID that is required for the machine to take your vote. YAY no more voter fraud (That all reports show is not an issue like you make it out to be).... So now you placed your vote for the piece of shit your party (Not targeting you, both parties have pieces of shit this election) said you should vote for, everything is good right? Until the machine is hacked and your vote is changed, and neither you or anyone else has a way to know it was done. Yes, they can have an audit trail, but that is all coded in and can be manipulated as well. Anything they code in these electronic machines can be manipulated. The more we move away from paper, the less we are able to do a proper audit to check for shenanigans... So mandatory IDs isn't going to do shit in preventing this kind of voter fraud, which is FAR worse and less obvious than any voter fraud you think is occurring because of the lack of required IDs.
 
Biznatch said:
Ok, so now you have your chipped registered ID that is required for the machine to take your vote. YAY no more voter fraud (That all reports show is not an issue like you make it out to be).... So now you placed your vote for the piece of shit your party (Not targeting you, both parties have pieces of shit this election) said you should vote for, everything is good right? Until the machine is hacked and your vote is changed, and neither you or anyone else has a way to know it was done. Yes, they can have an audit trail, but that is all coded in and can be manipulated as well. Anything they code in these electronic machines can be manipulated. The more we move away from paper, the less we are able to do a proper audit to check for shenanigans... So mandatory IDs isn't going to do shit in preventing this kind of voter fraud, which is FAR worse and less obvious than any voter fraud you think is occurring because of the lack of required IDs.
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Pretty much.. voter fraud is bullshit, can't barely get people to vote to begin with, sure sure, tons of people want to vote 2-3 times and risk prosecution.. makes tons of sense.
I AM SURE you can find 1-2 weirdos that has done it (vote twice or whatever).. like pretty much everything else in life.
 
aShrubbery! said:
Your self-righteous indignation is misplaced here. Didn't you know? When you point at someone, three fingers are pointing back at you!
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That doesn't change that we have emails from the DNC now admitting they rigged the election for Hillary over Sanders in the primaries, among other things (like homophobia, racism, and all the nice things they accuse conservatives of being).


DNC is Orwell's 1984. If you at all believe in what it used to represent, then you'd bail and start over with the same principles, minus the bought and paid for corruption.


Unless this is just another "coke vs pepsi" thing to you, and all you care about is your "brand" 'winning', even if they have to kill, cheat, lie, and bribe to do it...


Me? After the leaks came out and showed me how they do things, me and about 10 mil other "After-berners" #DNCExit. I won't be a part of something that corrupt. I reject any party that's going to turn our country into Venezuela.
 
I love the voter fraud scaremongering. Nobody wants to vote, voter turnout is abysmal, and people think there's an epidemic of people who can't vote actually breaking the law to do it?

WHY WOULD THEY DO THAT?
 
Dekoth-E- said:
I hope you aren't implying that the republicans are any better. From an unbiased perspective both parties are equally corrupt.
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Those of us who have "awoken", have realized that there is no real such thing as democrats and republicans - only globalists and the people. What pretty much confirmed it for me is when the Koch bros started funding Hillary's election on the down low this cycle.
 
Zion Halcyon said:
That doesn't change that we have emails from the DNC now admitting they rigged the election for Hillary over Sanders in the primaries, among other things (like homophobia, racism, and all the nice things they accuse conservatives of being).


DNC is Orwell's 1984. If you at all believe in what it used to represent, then you'd bail and start over with the same principles, minus the bought and paid for corruption.


Unless this is just another "coke vs pepsi" thing to you, and all you care about is your "brand" 'winning', even if they have to kill, cheat, lie, and bribe to do it...


Me? After the leaks came out and showed me how they do things, me and about 10 mil other "After-berners" #DNCExit. I won't be a part of something that corrupt. I reject any party that's going to turn our country into Venezuela.
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So does that mean you're voting for trump? You think just because there wasn't a leak at the RNC that they don't have the exact same BS going on? Both parties are corrupt, we are just getting a glimpse of how bad this election.

And what emails showed they actually rigged the primaries? There was clearly bias toward her, but I saw nothing where they actually did anything to change the vote (In the emails at least, there were plenty of instances at the caucuses showing this though). And this is from a Bernie supporter. I sure as hell won't be voting for either of the parties candidates though. Since I live in Cali, my vote doesnt matter as the state will go to Shillary, so Im voting Johnson. Don't agree with his policies, but I want to show that neither party is worth my vote at this point. I'll just focus on local elections/senate, not that it will matter much anyway with all the lovely gerrymandering (legal election rigging) going on.
 
Biznatch said:
So does that mean you're voting for trump? You think just because there wasn't a leak at the RNC that they don't have the exact same BS going on? Both parties are corrupt, we are just getting a glimpse of how bad this election.

And what emails showed they actually rigged the primaries? There was clearly bias toward her, but I saw nothing where they actually did anything to change the vote (In the emails at least, there were plenty of instances at the caucuses showing this though). And this is from a Bernie supporter. I sure as hell won't be voting for either of the parties candidates though. Since I live in Cali, my vote doesnt matter as the state will go to Shillary, so Im voting Johnson. Don't agree with his policies, but I want to show that neither party is worth my vote at this point. I'll just focus on local elections/senate, not that it will matter much anyway with all the lovely gerrymandering (legal election rigging) going on.
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I'll be honest, I wouldn't vote for Johnson either. He's in with the globalists too. My first choice is Jill Stein because she's not affiliated with any of the corruption (thus far anyway).

The one thing I will admit to doing is some further digging on Trump. I can't sit here and say the media is corrupt and rigged, and then believe everything they tell me about Trump. I'm too smart to want it both ways. Anyway, as best I can figure, he's an asshole. But he's an asshole who scares the globalist establishment shitless, and is very pro-nation and anti-global. That alone is enough to pique my curiosity. Include that because of his giant ego, he's not likely to be told by others what to do, and I think there's a good chance that ego can work for the people - a narcissist like that wouldn't be happy just winning the presidency - he's want to go down as the best. And he won't get that title by starting WWIII or some of the other crazy shit. He'd do it if he cleared out a ton of the corruption and used anti-trust laws to break up the media conglomerates - things he's spoken on before. Plus, he's actually pro LBGTQ (which is why I found Pence to be an odd choice, but I think that was to pander to the rank and file) and has given them shout outs as well. He's pulling their party more moderate, while a bunch of the globalists are quietly flipping sides to Hillary - shows you how its just one big scam going back to the first Bush - Globalist Pubs and Dems as one big happy family trying to keep us fighting with each other while they spend our $$$.

Again, I'm likely voting for Stein, and the 2 are night and day - but if there is a shot, no matter how slim, that there is someone I can vote for who can purge the bullshit out of government, or at least do enough damage to the system that the next person coming in has half a chance of being decent - I could be swayed is all I am saying. I will say what did the most towards taking me to this point, is to stop listening to what the internet and media say, and listen to the man's own words in his more recent speeches - he's not as bad as some demonize him to be, and actually makes some salient points on corruption and the system (and even admits at times to using the system to his benefit). I'm in Chicago and in a Sicilian family who were raised on the south side, so he reminds me of any number of uncles who can be loud, brash, and plain-spoken, but at heart can be really good people. Could be why I have a higher Trump Tolerance, LOL.
 
You know... I was thinking... Don't we all, in the US, already have free id at birth? It's our social security number, no?
 
Biznatch said:
Ok, so now you have your chipped registered ID that is required for the machine to take your vote. YAY no more voter fraud (That all reports show is not an issue like you make it out to be).... So now you placed your vote for the piece of shit your party (Not targeting you, both parties have pieces of shit this election) said you should vote for, everything is good right? Until the machine is hacked and your vote is changed, and neither you or anyone else has a way to know it was done. Yes, they can have an audit trail, but that is all coded in and can be manipulated as well. Anything they code in these electronic machines can be manipulated. The more we move away from paper, the less we are able to do a proper audit to check for shenanigans... So mandatory IDs isn't going to do shit in preventing this kind of voter fraud, which is FAR worse and less obvious than any voter fraud you think is occurring because of the lack of required IDs.
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Nothing totally eliminates fraud ever. Nor have I said that I believe voter fraud is a rampant problem. I simply believe that anyone who votes should have certain minimum identification requirements and that we should be constantly improving the system not going backwards. Paper ballots are going backwards. I furthermore believe that voting systems should be run by multiple third party independent institutions that there are extremely strict no involvement from anyone running for office. Breach of this would be punishable by removal from office to prison time depending on the involvement. I simply want clarity and oversight at every step of the process.
 
Rustynuts said:
Bend over for your tattoo.
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The typical American denial reaction when faced with the facts that the problems of topic have been fixed more than 30 years ago by modern countries.
"its not the American way so it must be baaaaaad". And then start make up fiction.
 
DocSavage said:
That appears to be well thought out, but does it allow people to see who you've voted for? Being free to vote for who you want without repercussions is a big part of voting.
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As long as the voting certificate isn't recorded into a database when it's issued, you'd never be able associate an individual vote with any one person unless you got their license, beat their PIN number out of them, managed to get a hold of the entire block of electronically stored votes (moar encryption!), and searched the whole lot of them for one that was signed with the certificates in the card on hand. For integrity's sake, the only explicit information you'd be able to glean off of a particular vote would probably be the state that issued it (because it's the only known certificate in the signing chain).
 
Regarding the Voter ID thing, below are the Missouri voting requirements:

1. Voting requirements
  • Be registered to vote in Missouri. Check if you’re registered to vote.
  • Be a US citizen
  • Be 18 by Election Day, Nov 8
  • Live at a Missouri address
  • Not be in jail due to a criminal sentence
  • Not be on probation or parole for a felony
  • Not be convicted of any offense connected to the right to vote
  • Not currently be judged incapacitated by a court

2. In person ID requirements
Bring one of the following:

  • Photo ID issued by the federal government, Missouri, another state, or an institution of higher education in Missouri
  • Current utility bill, bank statement, paycheck, or government check
  • Any government document that shows your name and address
Even without an ID, you have to be registered first for that location and show decent proof of who you're claiming to be.
I'm curious how someone could come up with a meaningful enough to sway an election way of abusing this system.
 
maverikv said:
Seems like a solution in search of a problem
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Real time election results, better for the environment because no paper, results are completely accurate so no recounts/contests, voters are in and out faster so hopefully turn out is better, people claiming fraud won't have a leg to stand on, standardize voting across all the states, probably be cheaper because the same equipment can be easily used for any local elections as well, and the cards themselves are pretty much impossible to fake so identity theft would be much harder. There's a reason most European countries have already gone this route. :D
 
Extra-Titanian said:
Real time election results, better for the environment because no paper, results are completely accurate so no recounts/contests, voters are in and out faster so hopefully turn out is better, people claiming fraud won't have a leg to stand on, standardize voting across all the states, probably be cheaper because the same equipment can be easily used for any local elections as well, and the cards themselves are pretty much impossible to fake so identity theft would be much harder. There's a reason most European countries have already gone this route. :D
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I meant voter ID
 
maverikv said:
I meant voter ID
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The problem being solved is voting while black.

"Although the new provisions target African Americans with almost surgical precision, they constitute inept remedies for the problems assertedly justifying them and, in fact, impose cures for problems that did not exist,” the (United States Court of Appeals in Richmond, Virginia) said.
 
JosiahBradley said:
This year's president will be decided by the best hackers. No real votes will be cast. The outcome could be trillions of votes and no one will audit shit.
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Thread TLDR, but this comment cracked me up. It'll be just like [H] when we all ran scripts to rig the softball player of the week voting system.
 
JosiahBradley said:
This year's president will be decided by the best hackers. No real votes will be cast. The outcome could be trillions of votes and no one will audit shit.
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Eh... I don't know. While I think both parties are corrupt, and both work towards the same ends, If Trump wins, I'm sure an audit will happen. Can't say for Hilary though. I'd like to think so, but Trump seems unfavorable in his own party as well, so maybe not.
 
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