Connecting the creative titanium HD sound card to a headphone amp.

GotNoRice said:
The page on the creative website that went into detail on this is not there anymore, as it seems they have purged their product pages of anything older than the Z series. If you look at the reviews of this card though, where the specs are listed, it clearly shows the SNR for the headphone out being lower than the RCA outs. Examples:

Sound Blaster X-Fi Titanium HD review
Creative Labs Sound Blaster X-Fi Titanium HD Sound Card
Specifications and Features - Sound Blaster X-FI Titanium HD Sound Card Review

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Sorry but I am a noob with audio to be honest. So the Front Channel Output in that chart above is the RCA ports? I don't understand what Headph 330 Ohm and Headph 33 Ohm means but I see the output level and SNR is slightly lower. I've no idea how much of a difference all this makes though. Currently the Mako is plugged from the LINE 1 port (3.5mm) to the headphone port of my sound card (3.5mm). When I get the Magni 2 Uber amp and R70x headphones, I'm not exactly sure how I am going to set this all up. Does the follow make sense and will work?:

Soundcard to amp via RCA to RCA cable. Speakers plugged into the amp via RCA to RCA cable. Headphoines into the amp via the front port on the amp?
 
deadman_uk said:
So the Front Channel Output in that chart above is the RCA ports?
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Yeah

deadman_uk said:
I don't understand what Headph 330 Ohm and Headph 33 Ohm means
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It refers to the impedance of the headphones that are connected to the headphone output. Lower impedance headphones tend to use more current, so i'm guessing that is why the SNR is lower for 33 Ohms.

deadman_uk said:
I've no idea how much of a difference all this makes though.
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Well, the only difference that really matters is how it sounds to your ears, so you should try both ways. The RCA outputs do have better specs on paper though.

deadman_uk said:
Soundcard to amp via RCA to RCA cable. Speakers plugged into the amp via RCA to RCA cable. Headphoines into the amp via the front port on the amp?
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That should be optimal.
 
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Why are there two columns for the Headph Ohm? I have only one headphone port at the back of my soundcard so why are there two? I notice one column is 330 while the other is 33. Also do RCA cables come in different qualities? I can just order one from amazon with 4 or 5 star rating and I will be good?
 
deadman_uk said:
Why are there two columns for the Headph Ohm? I have only one headphone port at the back of my soundcard so why are there two? I notice one column is 330 while the other is 33.
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Because headphones come in a range of different impedance. Some headphones are as low as 24ohms, some as high as 600ohms. There is only one headphone output, the difference refers to how it behaves when different headphones are connected, giving two examples.
 
GotNoRice said:
Because headphones come in a range of different impedance. Some headphones are as low as 24ohms, some as high as 600ohms. There is only one headphone output, the difference refers to how it behaves when different headphones are connected, giving two examples.
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Right that makes sense, thanks. I'll have to research RCA cables as I'm going to need a couple anyway.
 
deadman_uk said:
Also do RCA cables come in different qualities? I can just order one from amazon with 4 or 5 star rating and I will be good?
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Like most analog cables, this becomes a bigger factor as the distance increases. For short distances (assuming your computer, amp, and speakers are fairly close to each other), it shouldn't make much of a difference.
 
GotNoRice said:
Like most analog cables, this becomes a bigger factor as the distance increases. For short distances (assuming your computer, amp, and speakers are fairly close to each other), it shouldn't make much of a difference.
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How short/long would things start to make a difference? If I use a 0.5M cable compared to a 1.5M and a 3M, would all 3 sound the same?
 
It also depends on what is next to the cables, but generally anything under about 2M / 6ft shouldn't matter much. There are always exceptions though, as I'm sure there are some cheap Chinese-made cables out there that probably sound terrible at any length.
 
GotNoRice is correct. I forgot about that.

I use a Zx card speaker or rca out into an Onkyo Receiver. I use my speakers 90% of the time. I use the Onkyo headphone jack for headphones.
 
GotNoRice said:
So you are currently powering your headphones directly from the Titanium HD?

The X-Fi Titanium HD actually has two different DACs on the card. The very good quality DAC that it has is connected to the RCA Line-out jacks. These are line-level and can't really power headphones directly. The second, much lower quality DAC is what is connected to the headphone output. If you are powering your headphones directly using the card, then I'd guess you are currently using the lower quality DAC on the card. You should consider getting an external amp as that will not only very likely provide better amplification, but it will also allow you to actually use the good DAC on your Titanium HD for a change. It would be a 2-for-1 upgrade.
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Why would they put a better DAC on line out than the headphone out? Reminds me of the old Chaintech AV7 card where the rear speaker channels used a better DAC than the front speaker channels. Where's the logic in doing that if people's claims are true?
 
GotNoRice said:
It also depends on what is next to the cables, but generally anything under about 2M / 6ft shouldn't matter much. There are always exceptions though, as I'm sure there are some cheap Chinese-made cables out there that probably sound terrible at any length.
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It's not so much the length but the fools can't get the diameter of the connectors right so you don't get a snug fit. I have had 3 cheap Chinese products where the diameter of the connector was too small for a snug fit.
 
deadman_uk said:
How short/long would things start to make a difference? If I use a 0.5M cable compared to a 1.5M and a 3M, would all 3 sound the same?
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Yea, they will sound the same, you only have to worry about length and gauge if you are doing really long runs, like over 100ft. And no one does that with RCA cables, it is more about speaker cable length.
 
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For your usage, there is no reason to buy each cable separately, but you could. Most come in red/white stereo pairs, like your 2nd link.
 
What do the red vs the white do? Why is one red and one white? Why do they even sell RCA cables as a single? Any advantage to having 2x single RCA vs an RCA that's split into red and white? I'm going to have to look at Amazon and find an RCA cable but if you have any suggestions, feel free to share :) Thanks!
 
deadman_uk said:
What do the red vs the white do? Why is one red and one white? Why do they even sell RCA cables as a single? Any advantage to having 2x single RCA vs an RCA that's split into red and white? I'm going to have to look at Amazon and find an RCA cable but if you have any suggestions, feel free to share :) Thanks!
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They sell RCAs as single, because aside from carrying two channels (left, right - white, red) they share a common return path (ground). Two separate cables (right, ground; left, ground) mean there's more total wire gauge for ground ("return path"), which can only help.
 
The first one is for digital coaxial cable, which is excatly the same as an RCA cable but is just one and not two. So, get this one, "
Cable Mountain 1m High Quality Gold Plated 2x Phono to 2x Phono RCA Cable" but you will need an adapter from soundcard to rca unless you buy what spaceman posted. I use an adapter with Rocketfish RCA cables.
 
spaceman said:
3.5mm to stereo rca or 1/8th to stereo rca. This runs from your sound card into your amp.

You want something like this https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00RXNVGYG?psc=1
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But according to GotNoRice's post, using the 3.55mm headphone jack at the back of my sound card results in lower quality. Surely I must use the RCA ports into the back of my sound card rather than the headphone jack? So I would need RCA to RCA?

michalrz said:
They sell RCAs as single, because aside from carrying two channels (left, right - white, red) they share a common return path (ground). Two separate cables (right, ground; left, ground) mean there's more total wire gauge for ground ("return path"), which can only help.
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rezerekted said:
The first one is for digital coaxial cable, which is excatly the same as an RCA cable but is just one and not two. So, get this one, "
Cable Mountain 1m High Quality Gold Plated 2x Phono to 2x Phono RCA Cable"
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I will buy two separate cables, it should provide better shielding too right?
 
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deadman_uk said:
What do the red vs the white do? Why is one red and one white?
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Right and Left - two channels, two cables.

deadman_uk said:
Why do they even sell RCA cables as a single?
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Other cases, such as Coax S/PDIF (digital) that only need one cable.

deadman_uk said:
Any advantage to having 2x single RCA vs an RCA that's split into red and white?
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Depends on the cable but no, not really. Most pairs are already two separate cables, simply joined via the rubber on the outside.

spaceman said:
3.5mm to stereo rca or 1/8th to stereo rca. This runs from your sound card into your amp.

You want something like this https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00RXNVGYG?psc=1
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No, that's really NOT what he wants. As has been clearly established earlier in this thread, the RCA line-outs on the Titanium HD provide better SNR compared to the headphone jack output. RCA on both ends is ideal.

michalrz said:
They sell RCAs as single, because aside from carrying two channels (left, right - white, red) they share a common return path (ground). Two separate cables (right, ground; left, ground) mean there's more total wire gauge for ground ("return path"), which can only help.
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Could you elaborate on what you are referring to? I've never come across a stereo RCA cable pair that was anything other than two separate cables that were simply connected via the outer rubber insulating layer - no "common" anything. The two channels might share a common ground somewhere else in the signal path, but not via the cable.
 
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Oh, that soundcard has RCA out? Then you don't want what he posted nor me saying you need an adapter. On my X-Fi I have to use the adapter because it has no RCA out. My RCA cables are separate but I doubt it would make a dif either way.
 
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Oh. I forgot it had rca outs. My Z has the mini to rca. My bad. Yeah. A pair of good rca is what you want then. What you have selected is fine.

The other two are optical in and optical out. You do not need to bother with those unless you want to run a receiver or an external dac. You would buy a coaxial digital cable for optical out.
 
They say Optical in and out but those are not optical ports. Optical ports are squarish. If they use coax cable then they are not optical, optical uses a glass type of cables. The two that say L/R are what you use. I'm a bit confused as to why you need two sets of rca cables though.
 
rezerekted said:
They say Optical in and out but those are not optical ports. Optical ports are squarish. If they use coax cable then they are not optical, optical uses a glass type of cables. The two that say L/R are what you use. I'm a bit confused as to why you need two sets of rca cables though.
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If they are not optical ports, why are they called optical? I am confused. The Magni 2 Uber amp uses RCA so here is my plan:

Magni 2 Uber amp plugged into soundcard (RCA to RCA)
Speakers plugged into amp (RCA to RCA)
Headphones plugged into amp (port at the front of the amp)
 
deadman_uk said:
Yeah, actually my card has two sets of red and white ports, what are the difference? One is optical.. is that the difference?. So the RCA goes into the first set? Or should I be buying optical cables?
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The second set are combination ports, that can be used as analog inputs or digital optical in/out. They don't matter for analog output. You wouldn't want to use optical output unless you had something better to use as a DAC (the Digital to Analog conversion has to happen somewhere, but the DAC on the Titanium HD is already very good).

rezerekted said:
They say Optical in and out but those are not optical ports. Optical ports are squarish. If they use coax cable then they are not optical, optical uses a glass type of cables. The two that say L/R are what you use. I'm a bit confused as to why you need two sets of rca cables though.
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They are optical. They use the mini-toslink standard, which actually fits into the inside of the RCA jack, allowing combination analog/digital jacks such as found on this card. Here is an example of a mini-toslink cable: https://www.amazon.co.uk/New-Wayzon-Toslink-Mini-Cable/dp/B000FMXKC8
 
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Your speakers use RCA and not speaker cable? What speakers are those? Self powered computer speakers?

I guess they must be optical ports if they say they are but I have never seen optical ports like that. Creative does some weird things at times.

On my X-Fi it has a versa jack, it can be used for headphones or digital coaxial, but if you want to use it for digital coaxial you have to go buy a special adapter for it, which I do have somewhere. Still, it is a PITA when you have to do that.
 
[QUOTE="GotNoRice, post: 1042491939, member: 22431"

They are optical. They use the mini-toslink standard, which actually fits into the inside of the RCA jack, allowing combination analog/digital jacks such as found on this card. Here is an example of a mini-toslink cable: https://www.amazon.co.uk/New-Wayzon-Toslink-Mini-Cable/dp/B000FMXKC8[/QUOTE]

OK, got it, thx. Never seen that on any of my audio equipment, even my mb has standard optical connector. My Emu 0404 USB has both standard optical and coax in/out.
 
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rezerekted said:
Your speakers use RCA and not speaker cable? What speakers are those? Self powered computer speakers?

I guess they must be optical ports if they say they are but I have never seen optical ports like that. Creative does some weird things at times.

On my X-Fi it has a versa jack, it can be used for headphones or digital coaxial, but if you want to use it for digital coaxial you have to go buy a special adapter for it, which I do have somewhere. Still, it is a PITA when you have to do that.
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My speakers are Razer Mako 2.1. Currently I am using 3.5mm to 3.5mm to connect the speakers to the Soundcard and plugging my existing headphones (ATH-A700) into the control pod of the speakers. The speakers also have RCA connection which is what I will use from now on when I got the other gear sorted out (but both the headphones and amp are out of stock on the sites I want to buy from :( )
 
GotNoRice said:
Could you elaborate on what you are referring to? I've never come across a stereo RCA cable pair that was anything other than two separate cables that were simply connected via the outer rubber insulating layer - no "common" anything. The two channels might share a common ground somewhere else in the signal path, but not via the cable.
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I think I used a wrong example.
I was thinking of when you have a 3,5" Jack to dual RCA stereo cable, whereupon the two grounds ('negatives' from the Left and Right wires) meet at the stereo Jack - soldered together to the "longer" ring.

But this doesn't have to be the case with two separate RCA wires connected by the insulation, like you said.
 
I use an adapter on my X-Fi like you talk about that uses a common L/R mini to separate L/R RCA. But does that make an audio difference? Don't think so.
 
rezerekted said:
I use an adapter on my X-Fi like you talk about that uses a common L/R mini to separate L/R RCA. But does that make an audio difference? Don't think so.
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No idea if the adapter makes an audible difference.
I remember trying both methods (RCA outputs to Receiver RCA inputs, and jack output->RCA Receiver input).
Ultimately gave it a rest because they were so similar it was hard to tell, and that was on a souped up Prodigy 7.1 HiFi card. Both wires were decently built.
 
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