New Details Released In Fatal Tesla Crash

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A new report from the National Transportation Safety Board released today says that the Tesla involved in that fatal crash back in May was traveling at 74mph in a 65mph zone. NTSB investigators say they will continue to collect and analyze the data and say that all aspects of the crash remain under investigation.

Tesla system performance data downloaded from the car indicated that vehicle speed just prior to impact was 74 mph. System performance data also revealed that the driver was operating the car using the advanced driver assistance features Traffic-Aware Cruise Control and Autosteer lane keeping assistance. The car was also equipped with automatic emergency braking that is designed to automatically apply the brakes to reduce the severity of or assist in avoiding frontal collisions.
 
So, he was speeding, not paying attention, and the auto braking system didn't see the truck turning in front of him due to the truck being white and blending in with the bright sunlight.

Sounds like the Tesla driver is at fault for speeding and unattentive driving.
 
Looks very bad for Tesla here. I guess the only thing in their favor is the speed which is driver set(?).

Honestly, it must be all but impossible to know when you, the human, needs to take over for the computer in these situations. By the time you realize anything is wrong, no matter how attentive you are, it is likely already too late.
 
This looks like it is all the fault of the driver. If a semitrailer was turning from one lane to another you would see that a ways out. This guy was not watching for traffic. I would still use auto pilot. :) Also not sure if going 74 mph had anything to do with it if the post speed limit was 65 mph. Unless there is a problem with auto pilot over a set speed don't think that would matter.
 
You use these functions to help you as a driver, not to completely take over. I use cruise control so that I don't have to constantly have my foot on the gas pedal/adjust , but I am always covering the brake pedal. These systems are not perfect yet.
 
Doesn't the auto system set the speed?
Does your
Looks very bad for Tesla here. I guess the only thing in their favor is the speed which is driver set(?).

Honestly, it must be all but impossible to know when you, the human, needs to take over for the computer in these situations. By the time you realize anything is wrong, no matter how attentive you are, it is likely already too late.
Right, because that truck suddenly appeared in front of him. If he were actually paying an iota of attention, he would have seen that semi turning in front of him with a few hundred feet to spare.
 
Looks very bad for Tesla here. I guess the only thing in their favor is the speed which is driver set(?).

Honestly, it must be all but impossible to know when you, the human, needs to take over for the computer in these situations. By the time you realize anything is wrong, no matter how attentive you are, it is likely already too late.

Exactly. Human reaction is not very fast.
 
there are 2 interesting things in this case.
First)
Per the semi driver the telsa moved from the left lane to the right lane. Which means it though the semi was a tunnel and was headed under it. Maybe if the Telsa hadn't changed lanes it might have missed the truck.
Second)
Any normal driver would have avoided this accident, but if the driver had been paying attention, would they have trusted the autopilot past the point of no return on the crash? A normal human would have slowed down once they crested the hill, The driver with the autopilot knows the car will wait till the last minute to slow to minimize the delay. So would the driver wait till after the point where you could break thinking the car would do it?
 
People are supposed to relax while still being fully attentive to their driving with autopilot, but they are using it as an autonomous driving system and crashing instead.
 
does the tesla system use an optical system rather than a RADAR based system for obstacle avoidance?
 
there are 2 interesting things in this case.
First)
Per the semi driver the telsa moved from the left lane to the right lane. Which means it though the semi was a tunnel and was headed under it. Maybe if the Telsa hadn't changed lanes it might have missed the truck.
Second)
Any normal driver would have avoided this accident, but if the driver had been paying attention, would they have trusted the autopilot past the point of no return on the crash? A normal human would have slowed down once they crested the hill, The driver with the autopilot knows the car will wait till the last minute to slow to minimize the delay. So would the driver wait till after the point where you could break thinking the car would do it?

except the tesla can't switch lanes on it's own unless the driver uses the blinker.

Auto Lane Change
Changing lanes when Autosteer is engaged is simple: engage the turn signal and Model S will move itself to the adjacent lane when it’s safe to do so.

which would mean the driver would of had to of done it himself.

the system is designed to stay between 2 lines and to make sure it doesn't hit the car in front and that's it. as far as the driving aspect goes the system is really basic.
Model S Autopilot Press Kit | Tesla


does the tesla system use an optical system rather than a RADAR based system for obstacle avoidance?

uses a forward facing camera in the rear view mirror, long and short radar and 360 degree ultrasonic sensors.
 
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does the tesla system use an optical system rather than a RADAR based system for obstacle avoidance?

as I read in the articles it was because of a single camera in the front of this vehicle.

Telsa apparently uses both Radar and a Camera, I read someplace the new cars have multiple cameras.
 
except the tesla can't switch lanes on it's own unless the driver uses the blinker.

which would mean the driver would of had to of done it himself.

the system is designed to stay between 2 lines and to make sure it doesn't hit the car in front and that's it. as far as the driving aspect goes the system is really basic.
Model S Autopilot Press Kit | Tesla

Hmm didn't know that, I thought it had the ability to shift lanes.
 
Why is everyone forgetting that this is the guy who was watching a Harry Potter DVD on a portable DVD player?

You can't speed up well past the speed limit with traffic around you, set the cruise and special features, and then just completely ignore everything around you. It's not a self driving car; it just has special features to help.

Yes, I am aware that some now say he wasn't watching the DVD player, but I think that's crap. Some say the DVD player wasn't playing when some investigators got there, but how long did it take before they got there? Wouldn't most players stop at the end of the movie? Just because it's not playing when they got there doesn't mean it wasn't playing before and during the accident. Multiple people say it was playing when they got to the car to try to help the driver.
 
Everyone agrees the driver of the Telsa was an idiot.

The only legal issue; really, is did the semi driver take to long to cross the road. Based off reports the Telsa was visible (aka over the hill) when he started the turn, And he said once he saw the car he "gave it a little juice" (he could be lying to)

The real story is Telsa's autopilot, it's failure to brake, and the impact it will have on self driving cars.

Drivers being an idiot isn't even news.
 
Tesla markets their cars with a buggy "autopilot" system that can even be programmed to allow a driver to break the law? They are so at fault here.
 
Tesla markets their cars with a buggy "autopilot" system that can even be programmed to allow a driver to break the law? They are so at fault here.

I've never seen a cruise control that locked you to the speed limit, they're pretty much universally unlocked.

My computer can be programmed to break the law, is that Microsoft's fault? Furthermore, speed doesn't seem to be a factor here. It seems the driver is at fault for not paying attention. He could have tried to go under the semi trailer at 60 and would have still been killed (I'm assuming he was decapitated). Sure we could argue that "if the car would have prevented him from speeding, he would not have been at the time & place of the semi!" ... yeah, and maybe if he stopped to kiss his kids (or didn't), or didn't get a starbucks he would have altered the timeline. Or maybe it was death's design *queues Final Destination theme*.
 
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so this article isn't calling it "Autopilot" but actually calling it "lane assist" which is what it actually is marketed as.
 
The NTSB report mentioned the drive motors were deactivated after the initial impact with the trailer. While in this case may have been a good thing, I can see situations where having a car turn the drive train off as a result of a collision could be a bad thing. (Stopped at a RR Xing, get re-ended by some idiot watching a Harry Potter video, car winds up on RR tracks and turns off the drive train 'for safety', you mash the accelerator to escape the south bound express now 3 seconds away, the resulting auto-train crash becomes a News at 11 item.)
 
If ask me I think the truck driver is at fatal even knowing the car was doing 74mph in 65mph zone
I bet the truck driver never stop at the intersection crossing road as there could have been two reason the driver didn't see the black car or did see the but think he had enough time to get across and fig the driver would slow down.
There been min study that have revealed that black cars are up to 50% percent more likely to be involved in an automotive accidents than cars of any other color.
I wonder if the Tesla dose automatic video recording then it show this if that what really happing in first place
How ever Autopilot should be disable in tell there system in place to better serve the Traffic Aware Cruise Control
 
If ask me I think the truck driver is at fatal even knowing the car was doing 74mph in 65mph zone
I bet the truck driver never stop at the intersection crossing road as there could have been two reason the driver didn't see the black car or did see the but think he had enough time to get across and fig the driver would slow down.

Per the articles I saw the truck driver had stopped in the center to allow another car to pas, then proceeded to cross, apparently as he started the Telsa came into view.
 
Tesla markets their cars with a buggy "autopilot" system that can even be programmed to allow a driver to break the law? They are so at fault here.
In the South, not going 9 over is impeding the flow of traffic. I can be going 65 in a 55 and I still get passed like I'm standing still (by a lot of traffic) . I am guilty of not reading the details so no clue where this was, but just saying that speed without context isn't as black and white as it may seem.
 
The driver holds the the majority of the blame here, but this technology is not ready for wide release.

If you can't make a car drive itself safely, don't sell self-driving cars.
 
But its not a self driving car and they dont advertise it as such.
Exactly, even in this forum which I believe draws a more intelligent crowd, has people talking on this issue as if the lane assist feature is to be used without supervision. As if it was sold as such, and then drawing conclusions based on that.

Let's get informed and stop the stupid. Tesla cars are not autonomous, are not sold as autonomous. So when they are tried to be used like this, let's not blame Tesla.
 
Per the articles I saw the truck driver had stopped in the center to allow another car to pas, then proceeded to cross, apparently as he started the Telsa came into view.
I take it that you have never driven a big rig truck as they are very slow move on take off the most the truck driver would gotten was maybe 3rd to 4 gear with small local pup truck with a 40ft trailer load down.
 
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But its not a self driving car and they dont advertise it as such.

Exactly, even in this forum which I believe draws a more intelligent crowd, has people talking on this issue as if the lane assist feature is to be used without supervision. As if it was sold as such, and then drawing conclusions based on that.

Let's get informed and stop the stupid. Tesla cars are not autonomous, are not sold as autonomous. So when they are tried to be used like this, let's not blame Tesla.

Yes, let's get informed. Order a Tesla with the "Autopilot Hardware" feature. I get that a company should never, ever, ever be held responsible for misleading people or doing stupid shit, but Tesla sells this as a car with "autopilot".

"Autopilot allows Model S to steer within a lane, change lanes with the simple tap of a turn signal, and manage speed by using active, traffic-aware cruise control. Digital control of motors, brakes, and steering helps avoid collisions from the front and sides, as well as preventing the car from wandering off the road. Model S can also scan for a parking space, alert you when one is available, and parallel park on command.

Autopilot features are progressively enabled over time with software updates."

It's beta autopilot, a beta self-driving car, Tesla sells it as a self-driving car. The car was sold to the customer as one that was capable of being "traffic aware" and one that could avoid accidents. It didn't. The car failed at its function. The driver failed by trusting what the company told him the car was capable of.

The truth is that Tesla also thought this car could avoid the situation as well, because the feature isn't comprehensively tested and looks as though it's not safe for use within its own design parameters. Traffic on a highway is a really shitty place to beta test a product, especially when there are people involved.
 
The driver holds the the majority of the blame here, but this technology is not ready for wide release.

If you can't make a car drive itself safely, don't sell self-driving cars.

It's not sold as a self driving car.

This is no different than the person who ignores the huge warning labels on the top steps of a step ladder saying "This is not a step. Do not stand on this step" and then sues the ladder company when they stand on the step and fall.
 
Does your

Right, because that truck suddenly appeared in front of him. If he were actually paying an iota of attention, he would have seen that semi turning in front of him with a few hundred feet to spare.

But where is the threshold for him to realize and decide he needs to take action, rather than believing that the car has the situation under control? That is nearly impossible to know as a human and by the time you realize, it will be too late at highway speeds.
 
So, does this mean Tesla, the safest car on the road, cannot protect its passengers during a 9 MPH over the speed limit crash?
 
It's beta autopilot, a beta self-driving car, Tesla sells it as a self-driving car.
No, they don't Tesla named it "Autopilot" after the pilot assist feature in aircraft, that can maintain pre-set parameters (altitude, heading, speed, rates of change thereof) to avoid the need for continuous routine control input.
Some consumers read "Autopilot", turn their brains off, ignore all statements to the contrary, and imagine the Magical Hollywood Switch that turns on a little 'autopilot' light that lets everyone leave the cockpit for a cup of tea.

Tesla could have the Autopilot system continuously chant "KEEP YOUR HANDS ON THE WHEEL. KEEP YOUR EYES ON THE ROAD" on loop while the system is in operation, and some people would still mute the speaker and tape some gloves to the wheel.
 
The speeding claim is a red herring. 74 in a 65 has been happening millions of times a day for decades. I do that daily.

Speed is not what kills or causes accidents, it only modifies the outcome. The wreck happened because "someone" wasn't paying attention, whether you want to blame the car or the occupant (can't even call him a driver in this case). Had "someone" been paying attention, the collision would have been avoided -or- mitigated significantly. The truck driver is also to blame. The car was only going 13% over the speed limit. The Tesla hit the truck about 60% of the way back. Had the Telsa been going 65, he probably still would have hit the truck or at least come very close. The Telsa, although speeding, had the right of way.

The difference in 6 seconds of distance (which is along time when driving) between 65 and 74 is about 90 feet. That's not a big window when talking about a 53 foot long trailer + length of tractor.
 
Tesla markets their cars with a buggy "autopilot" system that can even be programmed to allow a driver to break the law? They are so at fault here.

Tesla's 'autopilot' is an autopilot in the same way that a 'hoverboard (self-balancing two wheeled board)' is an actual hoverboard.

Also, any cruise control can be programmed to break the law.
 
OMG, that intersection is a deathtrap looking for victims in the first place. At freeway speeds I can totally see people turning left across the 2 lanes and misjudging how much room they have. And the Tesla driver, if the car was self driving they wouldn't give you a steering wheel and pedals.
 
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