Project Orthrus - Smallest SLI mATX case (V2)

LukeD said:
That is a Noctua L9i, it has a Scythe Kazu 100mm fan on it.
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Does that fan perform better than the original fan, or is it a thickness issue that forced your decision to use it? Note: I'm asking this question before looking up the dimensions for either fan so it may just be a dumb question.
 
Alexreffand said:
Does that fan perform better than the original fan, or is it a thickness issue that forced your decision to use it? Note: I'm asking this question before looking up the dimensions for either fan so it may just be a dumb question.
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No, the fan performs a little worse but is quieter.
Have a look at my cpu cooler benchmark on first post.
There's no issue with the clearance of the Noctua fan. It fits perfect fine with about 2-3 mm between it and the side panel. I put the scythe there because I broke the Noctua fan trying to take it apart to paint it
 
That's a nice small case, the top front panel reminds me fo the apexx1.
I hope you'll be able to take this to production!
 
LukeD said:
Q: Your SLI cables- they look a bit odd:

A: That's because they are a Frankenstein of a cable :) I soldered two normal length flex SLI cables together. Hot glued the outside to protect the pins from shorting out or scratching the GPU's at this stage.
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I have some flexible SLI bridges that are around 6" long. Don't know if something like that would suffice. They are, however, that strange yellow color.

How well does it work with these bridges? I read that the 1070/1080 can use the higher bandwidth of the new "SLI HB Bridge."
 
As far as frame rates are concerned, flex bridges pretty much provide the same performance as SLI HB. The real question would be, how consistent are frame times ?
I can tell you this .... I can play GTA V, all maxed out settings, 4K @ 60 fps.... buttery smooth
 
Stellar effort! Love the design.

If ever you think about doing a mini-ITX / ITX GPU build consider it sold!
 
This is a pretty stellar case and build. One of the best I've seen on this side of the forum. Just about everything is well thought out and the craftsmanship is top notch. I'm not yet sold on the random "snow" pattern of the front vent but it does make the front look a bit less boring.

If this are considered to go into a limited run, I hope you can get around the hassles with the custom risers and SLI cables. The SLI especially, since there aren't any off-the-shelf connectors that are flexible and join cards separated like this. What are the lengths of the PCIe risers? Li-Heat makes some black flexible risers upwards of 300mm. They cost $70 a pair. It looks like those would work with this case too.
 
Hi there!

I have to say I'm very impressed with the overall thing. It looks fanfastic both function and design-wise. With that said, I have 2 suggestions for the project itself:

a) Cost-cutting measure: as it is, the market for slim*, high end quality, good-looking cases is close to non-existent. Yes, we have the Node 202 and the Silverstone whatever... but they aren't high-quality cases, in regards to craftmanship and materials used. So, what I'm trying to say is that you should consider offering a version of the case oriented at single-gpu projects. This would allow for some savings (as pci-e risers are very expensive, as you know, and lesser capacity psu's are also cheaper) and probably more space for HDD's, not only in the spot for the 2nd gpu but also if you were to use a mITX motherboard (you might be able to squeeze an extra hdd just below the current placement if paired with a mitx motherboard, right?). So, we are looking at cost savings twofold: first because you save on the pci-risers (and psu) and second because you would be able to sell more cases (as your target market highly increases) and, thus, lower the per-unit price. Keep in mind that your case would simply have no competition on the market, as there is nothing like this. I can tell you that I have no need for an SLI build... but I'd get a case like this (note: I don't own a vertical, slim case because no product is simply there for me) even for a single gpu because the design and functionality are right there. Of course, I wouldn't like paying for a riser that I'd have no use for. Shaving $80 would make the product way more interesting... and I'm pretty sure many people that is showing interest is because of the overall product and not the SLI itself. Again, SLI or not, there is nothing like this on the market. And I hate I love the idea of owning a vertical slim pc case.

b) Looks-wise. I'd reconsider the vents on the side-panels. They aren't needed at all. You simply have 3 front-fans and thus can orient the build into a front-air-in-back-air-out and forget about anything else. As it is you can put any gpu you want in there (so long as it fits) and you should have amazing temperatures. Removing said vents would make the case look much, much better. And if you wanted to go wild... you could offer a version with glass panels.

In any case, keep us updated please. The whole thing looks phenomenal.

PS: mITX motherboard and tray and short gpu should allow for watercooling with 90mm-wide radiator. Imagine how awesome that would look.
 
iFreilicht said:
That'd be the Hutzy XS, pretty much. Or would there be anything different with an ITX version of this case that you'd like better than that one?
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Very much keeping an eye on the Hutzy. The arrows and the lack of front I/O are a put-off, at least the former seems to be resolving itself.
 
CC Ricers said:
I'm not yet sold on the random "snow" pattern of the front vent but it does make the front look a bit less boring.

If this are considered to go into a limited run, I hope you can get around the hassles with the custom risers and SLI cables. The SLI especially, since there aren't any off-the-shelf connectors that are flexible and join cards separated like this. What are the lengths of the PCIe risers? Li-Heat makes some black flexible risers upwards of 300mm. They cost $70 a pair. It looks like those would work with this case too.
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I am working on an alternate front panel design for the 2nd prototype. I will share it here and I guess put it up to a vote, what people like.

I'm working on getting custom SLI flex ribbon cables. When I spoke to 3M about making custom shielded SLI cables, they said the quantity (1000) which is what I'm aiming for, for the first batch, will not be enough for them. So I'm speaking to another manufacturer now that will make the necessary flex cables like the ones we get with motherboards.

I will look into Li-Heat as Adexelec nor 3M have black cables. And yes, Li-Heat do look like they have the correctly oriented connector on their cable. The 3M ones will be a challenge but I will be receiving my samples from them tomorrow, so fingers crossed.

prava said:
Hi there!

I have to say I'm very impressed with the overall thing. It looks fanfastic both function and design-wise. With that said, I have 2 suggestions for the project itself:

a) Cost-cutting measure...

b) Looks-wise. I'd reconsider the vents on the side-panels. They aren't needed at all. You simply have 3 front-fans and thus can orient the build into a front-air-in-back-air-out and forget about anything else...

PS: mITX motherboard and tray and short gpu should allow for watercooling with 90mm-wide radiator. Imagine how awesome that would look.
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Thank you for the kind words and advice. I will definitely keep the iTX market in mind. I will try to make optimisations where possible for ITX, my priority was the mATX market as there are many great cases here with lots of different shapes and sizes for iTX.

Regarding a) I will definitely look at releasing 2 variants, or at least make riser / sli cables optional. The SLI and 2nd riser cable could increase the final cost of the case by around 100-130$. What I'll also do is make the GPU brackets 3,5" HDD friendly. That way you can mix and match where you want your GPU and HDD to sit, I believe that should easily be done. By the way the case is designed so it can also sit horizontally, to fit in HTPC cabinets :)

Regarding b) What I will be able to do, is once the case is released I'll share the blueprints for the side panels with people. They can get their own patterns cut if they like out of acrylic, glass, any other material.
I believe the default design needs to include vents for the high to very high powered components.

Regarding water cooling) I'm talking to EK about getting a dual 90mm radiator done for water cooling the CPU, even in the mATX variant. It would probably mean adding about 20mm to the depth of the case but I think a lot of people would like that tradeoff for the option.

I don't want to have too many options as the SKU's will be hard to manage, but I believe these are simple requests that can be incorporated into the base model.


iFreilicht said:
That'd be the Hutzy XS, pretty much. Or would there be anything different with an ITX version of this case that you'd like better than that one?
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I agree with iFreilicht. While the case does support iTX, Hutzy XS and DAN A4 look like great compact cases for that size and build.
 
LukeD said:
Thank you for the kind words and advice. I will definitely keep the iTX market in mind. I will try to make optimisations where possible for ITX, my priority was the mATX market as there are many great cases here with lots of different shapes and sizes for iTX.
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I can tell you that your design is the first one that being a slim case design has front fans for intake. This is a big deal for everybody as it solves one of the biggest issues with small cases: cooling. All things considered, the market for slim cases (without considering built quality or functionality) is very, very limited. The products that I know are these:

a) Fractal Node 202
b) Silverstone RVZ01 and RVZ02 and variations.
c) Dan A4

And that is about it without getting into boutique products that can't be bought separately. You can see that the options are very limited. On top of that, you have to consider the your design blows all the other by a mile regarding cooling capability AND is matx. I will not consider build quality or looks because those are highly personal. But all in all your product is unique on its own (dual-gpu + mATX on sub 12L) AND a lot better compared to the small competition there is (front intakes @ sub 12L).


Regarding b) What I will be able to do, is once the case is released I'll share the blueprints for the side panels with people. They can get their own patterns cut if they like out of acrylic, glass, any other material.
I believe the default design needs to include vents for the high to very high powered components.
Click to expand...

I wouldn't do that. I mean you can do it, and some people would appreciate it, but you should consider that most of the users don't have the machines required to make such work nor have any company around them that would do such a job for any non-insane amount of money. I know because when I wanted to make a custom back panel for my Lian Li V350 I asked several companies around me and they said that being a one-off... they couldn't charge me less than $200. The case itself was worth $80 so I never bothered to consider their services. You, on the other hand, will have access to machining... so I'd suggest you offer the materials if you can.

Regarding performance... well, seeing that your first topic on the matter includes a damn-well looking prototype... I'm sure it shouldn't be too hard for you to make non-perforated panels and experiment a bit ;) Temperatures, if anything, should be even better with the non-perforated panels, no matter how high end the system is. Why? With front intakes and such a small volume you force clean air to get from the front and leave to the back. This means that all heat being produced in the case is being pushed to the outside, as there is nothing to interfere in that forced airflow. Instead, if you create vents or introduce perforated panels you allow air to leave from other areas and not only the back, which would create weird airflow effects. Also, perforated panels, specially on acrylic, look much worse than plain ones.

Regarding water cooling) I'm talking to EK about getting a dual 90mm radiator done for water cooling the CPU, even in the mATX variant. It would probably mean adding about 20mm to the depth of the case but I think a lot of people would like that tradeoff for the option.

I don't want to have too many options as the SKU's will be hard to manage, but I believe these are simple requests that can be incorporated into the base model.
Click to expand...

Well, seeing that your case is 330 x 315mm adding 20mm to the depth would make the case almost a perfect square. I don't think that would be noticeable at all, but would add an extra layer of flexibility to the case. Maybe a fan filter could be added if no radiator was used?

---

Whatever the path you choose, please do keep us posted. This is looking even better by the day :)
 
LukeD said:
Regarding water cooling) I'm talking to EK about getting a dual 90mm radiator done for water cooling the CPU, even in the mATX variant. It would probably mean adding about 20mm to the depth of the case but I think a lot of people would like that tradeoff for the option.
Click to expand...

I have thought that a TRUE mini-tower chassis with complete water-cooling would be nice… I have envisioned such a chassis based around the Hardware Labs 184mm radiator (dual 92mm)… I would do one in front sucking air in & one up top blowing air out… The real trick is shoehorning a pump in there somewhere (not even thinking about a separate reservoir, or even a pump/res combo)…

Obviously, the simplest route to a water-cooled mITX rig would be centered around a 240mm Predator…! Enough cooling for a nice gaming rig, with the added compactness of the integrated pump & reservoir… The pump/fans header/controller is a nice touch as well…! Such a shame the proper orientation precludes usage in the Ncase M1 chassis…!!!
 
Well, depends if you feel safe using your PC without a reservoir ?
Im thinking of combining the EK water block with a Fractal Design pump from their AIO series. The fractal design AIO water cooler is "expandable" apparently.
 
LukeD said:
Well, depends if you feel safe using your PC without a reservoir ?
Im thinking of combining the EK water block with a Fractal Design pump from their AIO series. The fractal design AIO water cooler is "expandable" apparently.
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AIOs have no reservoir, just pump & radiator… I fell that, if plumbed properly, one could do without a reservoir in a custom closed loop system…?
 
LukeD said:
Well, depends if you feel safe using your PC without a reservoir ?
Im thinking of combining the EK water block with a Fractal Design pump from their AIO series. The fractal design AIO water cooler is "expandable" apparently.
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Be careful, Fractal Design pumps can't be sold in the US due to Asetek's patent. That's why Silverstone, Cooler Master, and Depp Cool designed their systems so strangely. Also why EK put the pump on the radiator of their Predator AIO.

Mal
 
Lack of a res in a DIY AIO system is a problem because, as the system heats up, the working fluid wants to expand - Less than perfect seals and joints will weep; this cycle can deplete enough of the working fluid to cause failure.

Also, the radiator introduces more thermal mass to the cooler.
 
Thermal expansion is minimal for water in a PC loop (4°C to 90°C is less than a 4% expansion). A T-line would be sufficient expansion volume (and aid filling), or a few ml of air could be left unbled in the system to allow for expansion (as sealed AIOs do). A manually bled system will likely have a few ml of air left anyway, due to dissolved bubbles and awkward internal geometry in the radiator.
 
EdZ said:
Thermal expansion is minimal for water in a PC loop (4°C to 90°C is less than a 4% expansion). A T-line would be sufficient expansion volume (and aid filling), or a few ml of air could be left unbled in the system to allow for expansion (as sealed AIOs do). A manually bled system will likely have a few ml of air left anyway, due to dissolved bubbles and awkward internal geometry in the radiator.
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And the biggest difference you will ever see in a computer water cooling loop is 25ºC Delta. So, probably sub 1% expansion at any given time.
 
Thanks guys. I wasn't aware about Asetek's patents in the U.S. Lets see what EK and Alphacool can come up with. Maybe pumps on the radiator ? ;) There'd be space where the 3rd fan (bottom most fan) would go.
However, its starting to look right now like air cooling will have to be it for the time being. Maybe revision 2 of this case if its successful.
 
iFreilicht said:
Holy crap, do you know whether they found out over reddit or did you or protocase send out a press release? Congratulations on all the exposure, I'm sure you'll be able to easily get to your 1000 unit goal!
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I hope we reach that unit goal. It would be great if we did. All the suppliers I'm talking with now, that seems to be the magic number they're willing to do work for :)

Originally Protocase did a little bit of social marketing for me. I didn't ask them to, they were proactive about it since they themselves said "its one of the most exciting projects we've worked on", and mind you these guys have work on projects with the likes of NASA :) So i was very flattered and said sure, go for it. And then it just snowballed from there.
One of the guys that came across the case on reddit is a freelance writer for Kotagu and Gizmodo I believe.

Once I have the 2nd prototype I'll try to do a little marketing for it myself and maybe send it out to some review sites to see what they think, we have a few local ones in Australia that are gaining momentum.

Lets see how we go. Fingers crossed.
 
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LukeD said:
I hope we reach that unit goal. It would be great if we did. All the suppliers I'm talking with now, that seems to be the magic number they're willing to do work for :)

Originally Protocase did a little bit of social marketing for me. I didn't ask them to, they were proactive about it since they themselves said "its one of the most exciting projects we've worked on", and mind you these guys have work on projects with the likes of NASA :) So i was very flattered and said sure, go for it. And then it just snowballed from there.
One of the guys that came across the case on reddit is a freelance writer for Kotagu and Gizmodo I believe.

Once I have the 2nd prototype I'll try to do a little marketing for it myself and maybe send it out to some review sites to see what they think, we have a few local ones in Australia that are gaining momentum.

Lets see how we go. Fingers crossed.
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There was something bugging me at first when I saw the design... and now I know what it was:

Haven't you considered inverting the layout? The way it is, now, the gpu's are upside down, which has two drawbacks:

a) They do not rest on the pci-e bracket, but on the io part.

b) The gpu power cables need to be longer than needed.

I thought that maybe there was a reason for it but... I just can't find. Inverting the motherboard doesn't seem to affect anything unless... you oriented it like that because of the windows on the case?

In any case please keep up the good work. And WOW @ $4000 for the prototype. I take my hat off to a true enthusiast.
 
How did you get the motherboard to look like that? Did you remove the decals from the heatsinks?
 
itschop said:
How did you get the motherboard to look like that? Did you remove the decals from the heatsinks?
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I removed the heatsinks, masked them off where necessary and painted them with a high temp matt paint.

prava
The reason the layout is like that is ...

If i inverted it i would loose the angled corners of the case, which changes the location of the front panel io ports. It can be done but its a tradeoff of design.

The inverted GPU's don't put a lot of strain on the PCIe brackets. I can tell you the GPU's I have in there are Founders Editions. They are the heaviest GPU's you can get, I think.
The PCIe brackets do have to have locks though that keep the GPU's sitting correctly.

I've transported this case before and there's no issue to it. Also... inverted GPU's don't look upside down. Put the motherboard upside down and it will be noticeable.
 
LukeD said:
I removed the heatsinks, masked them off where necessary and painted them with a high temp matt paint.
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You did a great job, as it looks like it came like that from the factory. And I forget to mention, the case looks great. Great job! :happy:
 
LukeD, Congratulations, perfect design! I would love to purchase a unit when launch!

I wonder if there would be the possibility to insert hidden underneath the riser of the VGAs, another PCI slot and ssd support? I would like to use a sound card or pci-express ssd, if possible low profile?

Thank you and sorry for my bad english is not my native language!
 
itschop said:
You did a great job, as it looks like it came like that from the factory. And I forget to mention, the case looks great. Great job! :happy:
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Thank you! Believe it or not, that's the first time I've painted those. I do have a little experience painting RC cars, probably that's why I didn't completely screw up the pain job on the first attempt :)

LeandroJVarini said:
I wonder if there would be the possibility to insert hidden underneath the riser of the VGAs, another PCI slot and ssd support? I would like to use a sound card or pci-express ssd, if possible low profile?!
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Under the PCIe slots there is a space for 2,5" HDD/SSD. However, i don't think you could mount a PCIe x4 slot there, as there's not a lot of space and no way to secure a half-height PCI bracket, and also, you would be very hard pressed to fold and fit a PCIe riser cable to reach that location.

Thank you once again for your kind words and feedback.
 
LukeD said:
Under the PCIe slots there is a space for 2,5" HDD/SSD. However, i don't think you could mount a PCIe x4 slot there, as there's not a lot of space and no way to secure a half-height PCI bracket, and also, you would be very hard pressed to fold and fit a PCIe riser cable to reach that location.

Thank you once again for your kind words and feedback.
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I understand.

Let us updated, I really want this case on my deskwas wanting a lian li pc-o6s, but seeing your case, I want it!

I have some more pictures? some of it inside empty? I would like to use photoshop to mount some biuld possible within it, if not too much to ask.

Thks!
 
LeandroJVarini said:
I have some more pictures? some of it inside empty? I would like to use photoshop to mount some biuld possible within it, if not too much to ask.
Thks!
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Unfortunately, I don't have photos right now of the empty case. I will have them in a few days, as I need to pull the entire machine apart for some measurements for prototype 2.
I will keep you posted :)
 
prava said:
. All things considered, the market for slim cases (without considering built quality or functionality) is very, very limited. The products that I know are these:

a) Fractal Node 202
b) Silverstone RVZ01 and RVZ02 and variations.
c) Dan A4

And that is about it without getting into boutique products that can't be bought separately.
Click to expand...

S4 Mini Chassis
 
chx said:
S4 Mini Chassis
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That isn't really a comparable product. It is lovely, though, but not comparable, since it is using a pico-psu, which means that you need to have a brick outside and has several other limitations. As an htpc or office computer then hell yes... but as a gaming option... nope. At least not for me.
 
prava said:
That isn't really a comparable product. It is lovely, though, but not comparable, since it is using a pico-psu, which means that you need to have a brick outside and has several other limitations. As an htpc or office computer then hell yes... but as a gaming option... nope. At least not for me.
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I'd say a GTX 1060 is a pretty good card for gaming, so while an external brick is limiting, it's not like it prevents serious gaming. Of course your mileage may vary. If a 1080 or even SLI is required, then I can see why the S4 Mini would be a subpar case.
 
iFreilicht said:
I'd say a GTX 1060 is a pretty good card for gaming, so while an external brick is limiting, it's not like it prevents serious gaming. Of course your mileage may vary. If a 1080 or even SLI is required, then I can see why the S4 Mini would be a subpar case.
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Do note that I love the design of the S4. Like seriously love it. It has an industrial look that makes it very appealing to me... but the pico-psu limit means that you will have to restrain yourself in many aspects if you do plan on it. And yes, you are absolutely right on a 1060 being more than enough to play most of the games at very decent quality and framerates... but it has simply too many limits for the use I'd give the product. As I said, as an office unit, HTPC, light-gaming computer... then I'd already have one.
 
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