Anti-Corrosion Additives? Does anyone use them?

Zarathustra[H]

Extremely [H]
Joined
Oct 29, 2000
Messages
38,741
Hey all,

So I am in the process of building my first custom loop.

My plan is to use distilled water with either copper based Blue PT Nuke or a Kill coil (I've bought both, maybe I'll just use them both for good measure), but I have been wondering if anyone ever uses any kind of corrosion inhibitor additive, and if not, why not?

The materials in my loop are going to be Copper, Some Nickel plated Copper and - of course - the silver coil, so the Anodic indices I'm dealing with are as follows:


Silver: -0.15V
Nickel: -0.30V
Copper: -0.35V

Typical engineering guidelines are to keep the difference less than 0.25 for normal (warehouse condition) environments, less than 0.50 for tightly humidity controlled environments and no more than a 0.15 differnce for high humidity, outdoors or salty environments.

The loop isnt salty, but it sure as hell is high humidity, so I'm guessing the last 0.15V difference is the one that would apply here.

That means that without the silver kill coil I am more than fine with a difference of just 0.05v. Add in the kill coil - however - and my difference is now 0.20V, which is above the recommendation, and should result in slow degradation of the most anodic metal, the Copper.

So the querstion is, should I try to add a anti-corrosive agent to my fluid, just skip out on the kill coil and go only with PT Nuke to keep things below a 0.15V difference, or just nopt worry about it at all, because I am overanalyzing things?

What do you guys think?
 
Again I run automotive coolant. Been doing so for a long time. Don't have algae, don't have corrosion, don't have anything leaching, don't have anything staining, don't have anything settling out. I honestly give my coolant zero fucks, and it works awesome.
 
I run distilled water with the PT Nuke and kill coil with 0 issues. Only change the water when I upgrade every 2 years.
 
Distilled water + killcoil, no problems for 5+ years (gone about 2 years without changing water).
 
I had DangerDen GTX 580 nickel plated blocks. I believe the Koolance QDCs are nickel plated as well, but not entirely sure.
 
Be careful using a kill coil. I guess with EK, it'll void the warranty of their parts if they find out you used one. I mean, it's fine, but if you need to return anything you might have some problems.
 
And that is why I don't use EK and will never support EK (among other reasons).
 
And that is why I don't use EK and will never support EK (among other reasons).

Yeah, I was unaware of the history with EK when I bought my blocks. I did some research and their blocks reviewed well which is why I picked them. Had I known what I know now, I might have had second thoughts.

That being said, apparently their process is completely different now, compared to when they had the problem, so hopefully I won't run into any issues.
 
Yeah, I was unaware of the history with EK when I bought my blocks. I did some research and their blocks reviewed well which is why I picked them. Had I known what I know now, I might have had second thoughts.

That being said, apparently their process is completely different now, compared to when they had the problem, so hopefully I won't run into any issues.


Tsumi is stuck in the past ;)

If using concentrates, anti-microbials are included. No need to use concentrates/coolants along kill coil.

If using only distilled water, then you should use a kill coil.

I called EK when I was building my loop, annd they told me that using a kill coil does not void my warranty. They simply stated that using aggressive UV additives would void it.
 
Yeah, I was unaware of the history with EK when I bought my blocks. I did some research and their blocks reviewed well which is why I picked them. Had I known what I know now, I might have had second thoughts.

That being said, apparently their process is completely different now, compared to when they had the problem, so hopefully I won't run into any issues.

Their blocks will still strip, so some things change but are still the same.
 
I called EK when I was building my loop, annd they told me that using a kill coil does not void my warranty. They simply stated that using aggressive UV additives would void it.

Well, their warranty is only two years. The universal nature of CPU blocks means they SHOULD be able to be used for bloody ever.

All they are saying when they say it wont void their warranty is that they don't think you'll have problems in the first two years. These blocks are IMHO, practically 10 year products though.
 
Well, their warranty is only two years. The universal nature of CPU blocks means they SHOULD be able to be used for bloody ever.

All they are saying when they say it wont void their warranty is that they don't think you'll have problems in the first two years. These blocks are IMHO, practically 10 year products though.


If you're maintaining your liquid, they should last for damn near ever. Its the o rings that give way
 
As I've been thinking more about this I have come to the following conclusions:
  • Having a silver kill coil seems like a bad idea. I know some people will say its fine, but its just a risk I don't want to take. The anodic index winds up being above recommended levels for engineering design. I'm just not going to take the risk.
  • With the EK history I was unaware of when I bought the EK block, as an extra precaution, rather than use PT Nuke, I might just go ahead and buy some of EK's own fluid concentrates which contains - among other things - their proprietary anti-corrosive mixture. My guesstimated loop volume is below 3L but above 2L, so I guess I'll need three bottles at $9.99 each.
  • I wasn't planning on using any color. This build is not for looks, I have opaque black tubing and my case window is up against a wall anyway, but if I am going to spend the money on the fluid, the clear costs the same as the colored fluids, and if I have any small leaks, they'll be easier to spot on my white rags during fill and leak testing if I have color, so I might as well get a color. Maybe I'll go with the blue.

This doesn't mean this is the right approach for everyone, but it is what I am going to do to give myself peace of mind.

I'm not concerned about the GPU block. GPU's come and go. The block and GPU will likely be obsolete before any corrosion can show up. The CPU block - however - is compatible with everything out there, and when the next gen of CPU's come around it will likely still be compatible with it, so it might be with me for many years.
 
EK has a clear concentrate, but I went with the green pastel. I like it :)
20160711_171044.jpg
 
Ya don't want to use a kill coil as that accelerates ion transfer with mixed metal loops which is a lot of loops. Just use some coolant and yer done. If yer not mixing nickel plating, you only need something to keep algae blooms controlled ie. nuke or again coolant.
 
I've personally used Koolance coolant in my systems for the past 12 years or so and I've never had any issues at all. Their coolant has anti-corrosives and bio-inhibitors and I've never had an issue.
 
With the EK history I was unaware of when I bought the EK block, as an extra precaution, rather than use PT Nuke, I might just go ahead and buy some of EK's own fluid concentrates which contains - among other things - their proprietary anti-corrosive mixture. My guesstimated loop volume is below 3L but above 2L, so I guess I'll need three bottles at $9.99 each.

I wasn't planning on using any color. This build is not for looks, I have opaque black tubing and my case window is up against a wall anyway, but if I am going to spend the money on the fluid, the clear costs the same as the colored fluids, and if I have any small leaks, they'll be easier to spot on my white rags during fill and leak testing if I have color, so I might as well get a color. Maybe I'll go with the blue.

Actually, I'll probably go with one blue and two clear. That way I'll bet a subtle blue that should help with detecting leaks, without going too crazy on the color.

This was supposed to be a functional bild, not a riced up one :p
 
Actually, I'll probably go with one blue and two clear. That way I'll bet a subtle blue that should help with detecting leaks, without going too crazy on the color.

This was supposed to be a functional bild, not a riced up one :p


Both can be achieved simultaneously :)
 
Both can be achieved simultaneously :)

True.

It was suggested to me at some point - however - that the most effective cooling fluid was plain deionized or distilled water, and that anything you add to it reduces effectiveness.

You obviously want to use some additives to prevent growth and possibly help with corrosion, but for the best temps you add as little too the water as possible.

While this statement is probably true, I can't help but think that the difference between a colored fluid and plain distilled water is pretty small, bordering on marginal.
 
True.

It was suggested to me at some point - however - that the most effective cooling fluid was plain deionized or distilled water, and that anything you add to it reduces effectiveness.

You obviously want to use some additives to prevent growth and possibly help with corrosion, but for the best temps you add as little too the water as possible.

While this statement is probably true, I can't help but think that the difference between a colored fluid and plain distilled water is pretty small, bordering on marginal.


This is not entirely true.
Friction modifiers (in this case, surfactants) help with reducing the viscosity of a liquid in a loop, as well as reducing the ability of biologics to attach to a porous surface. Reducing hydraulic friction is a good thing. While more noticeable in industrial environments such as forges or stamping presses with large capacity systems, we can still reap the benefit in our small WC systems. This is exactly the reason you see some people putting a drop or two of dish soap in their loops
 
This is not entirely true.
Friction modifiers (in this case, surfactants) help with reducing the viscosity of a liquid in a loop, as well as reducing the ability of biologics to attach to a porous surface. Reducing hydraulic friction is a good thing. While more noticeable in industrial environments such as forges or stamping presses with large capacity systems, we can still reap the benefit in our small WC systems. This is exactly the reason you see some people putting a drop or two of dish soap in their loops


That is true. Less surface tension means less resistance, fewer air bubbles and the water getting into all the crevices of the block better.

I had considered experimenting with surfactants but I am a little scared as with less surface tension, your risk for leaks also goes up...
 
That is true. Less surface tension means less resistance, fewer air bubbles and the water getting into all the crevices of the block better.

I had considered experimenting with surfactants but I am a little scared as with less surface tension, your risk for leaks also goes up...


I don't feel that anything we can put in our loops will cause that. From my industrial maintenance experience, chemicals could possibly introduce a leak would also be corrosive to the rubber/nylon o rings. Truely, the best thing you can put in a loop is coolant designed for a diesel engine. If you take a gander at why some coolant is purpose designed for that environment, the reason for using it in our tiny loops becomes quite clear
 
I don't feel that anything we can put in our loops will cause that. From my industrial maintenance experience, chemicals could possibly introduce a leak would also be corrosive to the rubber/nylon o rings. Truely, the best thing you can put in a loop is coolant designed for a diesel engine. If you take a gander at why some coolant is purpose designed for that environment, the reason for using it in our tiny loops becomes quite clear


The surfactants wouldn't do damage to the loop, it would just make the water more capable of fitting through smaller holes, so if there are any existing small imperfections in any of the parts, without a surfactant, the surface tension of the water may be keeping it from leaking.

Remove that surface tension and now you have a leak.

In sterile medical device packaging this is one of the ways we test seal integrity per ASTM F1929 - Dye Penetration Testing.

You use DI water with a surfactant and a dye and apply it with a dropper to the seal. The surfactant allows the water to get through voids in the seals it otherwise wouldn't, and the dye helps you spot when this happens.
 
I use dye pen along with developer to check for cracks :) mainly with gears in a hoist gearcase or brass load hooks
 
Mercedes, Saab, Nissan, Honda, Mazda, Cummins all use a blue anti-freeze. Leaves a white trace when dried out. Available in gallon containers locally. Protects against corrosion, lubricates pumps and inhibits growth. Long lasting with basically no replacement interval in this application
 
Back
Top