AMD confirms Power Issue for RX 480, blames memory bus, will patch

Ieldra said:
Alright. Im-ho-tep. I'm going to spell this out for you, one last time.

The behavior of the Strix 960 has nothing to do with the behavior of the RX480.

The 960 shows spikes in Tom's review because those are transients that are suppressed in the matter of microseconds, those are to be filtered out when you are looking at sustained draw. 12V @ 5.5A is the maximum = 66W. RX480 is average over 7.4A @ ~ 11.6V. Not allowed.



Of course it wasn't me who brought it to AMD's attention, AMD knew, and they didn't care : )
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They are pretending to be too dense to understand. It's the last thing they can cling on to validate that AMD is right even when AMD admitted they're wrong. They can't do naught but regurgitate the same false information over and over, as they have no understanding of the subject matter. No wonder why AMD catered marketing to r/AMD, that's the only way they'll get sales. Most reasonable buyers would be put off by the imminent 1060 launch and play wait-n-see.

I wonder what the fix will be. Whatever it is, AMD can be hit by a CLA over this.
 
Araxie said:
it make no sense, why? first the GTX 960 is nothing related to the RX480 second because he just looked for excuses to allow AMD do this shit, instead of looking for solutions he looked for a way to redeem AMD by attacking the GTX 960, he never found a way to prove the issue never existed, just a way to "hey if nvidia did it, then AMD can do it no issues for me while I can prove that other guy is doing the same" now, the ASUS GTX 960? First have to be mention that it was a issue apparently happening only to ASUS GTX 960 STRIX and it was fastly debunked directly by PCPer. (if you need the proof and links just tell me and I can look it for you). that's why he wasn't making sense, that's the real fight in all this mess, who is spreading the real information? all of those who provide reliable sources, proof and documentation or all of those who provide only excuses to defend AMD? that's the real question.
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Lol if you extend the "nvidia did it before so it's okay" argument then the 970 debacle is a non-issue if it's repeated :D
 
trandoanhung1991 said:
They are pretending to be too dense to understand. It's the last thing they can cling on to validate that AMD is right even when AMD admitted they're wrong. They can't do naught but regurgitate the same false information over and over, as they have no understanding of the subject matter. No wonder why AMD catered marketing to r/AMD, that's the only way they'll get sales. Most reasonable buyers would be put off by the imminent 1060 launch and play wait-n-see.

I wonder what the fix will be. Whatever it is, AMD can be hit by a CLA over this.
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Ya know what they say not knowing something doesn't kill anyone but ignorance does.
 
Ieldra said:
Of course it wasn't me who brought it to AMD's attention, AMD knew, and they didn't care : ) They still hyped the card, and implied two of them consume 180W or less in their demo, and you and a bunch of others ate all that hype up, and accepted it as fact whenever it was repeated by any of a number of bad sources with circumstantial (if any) evidence to support it.

I presented an argument backed by tons of evidence, I was an asshole to some people while doing it, true - but in the end, this is a technical issue; how you feel about me shouldn't influence your objectivity about AMD's non-compliance with the PCI-Express specification and the damage it can cause, and has already started causing.
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as I always say to every AMDlieber everyone believe what want to believe, you can't discuss with anyone who openly admit being an AMD fanboy.

ManofGod is a truly good guy, but he just love too much AMD and with that you can't really discuss, he upgraded from an AMD FX platform to i7 6700K then he never felt good about having an intel platform then downgraded again to an FX platform just to have peace of mind and be happy with AMD, I think it's a miracle he is using still the 980TI and not switched to Fury X..
 
Araxie said:
as I always say to every AMDlieber everyone believe what want to believe, you can't discuss with anyone who openly admit being an AMD fanboy.
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yeah and these people what to talk about overclocking hardware though lol. Its not just about pushing some numbers up and down......sheesh.
 
AMD released a statement and then now we move on to more speculation. Why don't you all wait until Tuesday. Cuz I am sure those dudes don't wanna work 4th July weekend but they are working it so give them dudes a break. Enjoy your weekend. And wait till Tuesday and stop guessing more!! Lol
 
Ieldra said:
Lol if you extend the "nvidia did it before so it's okay" argument then the 970 debacle is a non-issue if it's repeated :D
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you know what's worse? that AMD people still like to give that shit, I remember when the GTX 1070 launched then they was saying "it's a truly 8gb card? or 7+1?. 6+2?" oh well the issue there was real, but the issue with this power mess is not. xD. that's how hypocrisy works in his best state..
 
NKD said:
AMD released a statement and then now we move on to more speculation. Why don't you all wait until Tuesday. Cuz I am sure those dudes don't wanna work 4th July weekend but they are working it so give them dudes a break. Enjoy your weekend. And wait till Tuesday and stop guessing more!! Lol
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because we want to know how they are really planing to fix the issue, are they going to truly fix the issue or gimp the card performance? are they going to fix the issue or just hide it?.. remember the first statement AMD gave was "we passed every test at lab" "the 110W advertised power was for GPU die only not the whole video card" then they are now blaming the vRAM... in my opinion they just looked into a way to shut up the mass fast because the issue is becoming really serious at this point.
 
You guys must be on the weekend coolaid already. I have been a fan of this place since it started in the 90's. So please do not try to educate me....lol. Tuesday is around the corner. I too have to dip into the weekend coolaid. The world is ending next week...lol

Cheers
 
So sense you made a huge deal about this, are you going to run out and buy an rx480 as soon as all is well for you?
 
Seems like AMD would have been aware of this as at least a potential point of review contention, especially after the 3.5 vs 4 memory 970 memory controversy. Consumers these days are pretty sophisticated, and are just going to notice this kind of stuff.

I wonder, then, what the decision-making process around product release looks like. Is it like trying to steer an oil tanker ship or something, where you have to make decisions about turning miles ahead of change of course?

Once they start the process of manufacturing / production / marketing / release, there's just no way to reverse or reschedule the process, regardless of what information surfaces?

Too bad, this is going to mar the release of an otherwise interesting product, even if they can mitigate the issue by tuning down the card. If they have just put an 8-pin connector on the initial reference card, at least the 8GB version. D'oh!
 
Its not so much the message that bothers some of us.....For instance i KNOW some of you are not Trolls....Cause i see you help different people on all kinds of issues.....But there is one person here who is ONLY interested in bashing AMD 24/7 on every website he comes across.....Its obvious he has ulterior motives. I dont know if he just an ass clown or his paid by Nvidia. So for me a persons Motives matter.....Is that wrong? Maybe?..IDK..but its just the way i see it
 
primetime said:
Its not so much the message that bothers some of us.....For instance i KNOW some of you are not Trolls....Cause i see you help different people on all kinds of issues.....But there is one person here who is ONLY interested in bashing AMD 24/7 on every website he comes across.....Its obvious he has ulterior motives. I dont know if he just an ass clown or his paid by Nvidia. So for me a persons Motives matter.....Is that wrong? Maybe?..IDK..but its just the way i see it
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I fully agree and I hope you don't get banned for this.
 
Sheppard said:
So sense you made a huge deal about this, are you going to run out and buy an rx480 as soon as all is well for you?
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aww, well I was one thinking in buying at least 4 RX 480 with a potential of being at least 8 to replace every AMD card in my rigs below R9 390X... guess what, that's not going to happen soon. if the issue is truly fixed before I can buy all the 1070 to fill all of those slots then yes, I still may be able to buy Some RX 480 because contrary to lot of guys I buy GPUs for fun, for toy with it, and well, to help with my 2cents the underdog .. :p but every generation I have less and less AMD GPUs which its sad AMD isn't giving motives to buy their GPUs instead they are asking me now to be more careful with each GPU released.
 
Araxie said:
because we want to know how they are really planing to fix the issue, are they going to truly fix the issue or gimp the card performance? are they going to fix the issue or just hide it?.. remember the first statement AMD gave was "we passed every test at lab" "the 110W advertised power was for GPU die only not the whole video card" then they are now blaming the vRAM... in my opinion they just looked into a way to shut up the mass fast because the issue is becoming really serious at this point.
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Like I said we are making things up at this point. May be amd shouldn't do damn thing so you can lose sleep over it lol. They did say we are working on it and we will update community on Tuesday. Shit like this takes time bro. It's easy for people here to click and post and make shit up oh we wanna know more but why can't you wait till Tuesday. Worlds about to end of this or what? Give em a break its 4th July weekend, why would they say more if they are still working on it? They said Tuesday, firm date! That's not good enough?
 
Power fix: AMD has to do something. I see a v1 card, which is the current release, getting a driver fix which cuts clocks and drops power use. Next they will release a v2 card which will have a single 8 pin connector and a vbios fix to properly apportion the power draw from the mobo.

An offer to buyback v1 cards and send you a v2 card would be appropriate.

If they keep the v1 power use as it is by increase the 6 pin pull beyond 75w would be fine...but would violate spec for the 6 pin. Therefore that is not a viable solution. (The 6 pin wires can carry a lot more current than the spec allows. Most psus, if not all, can also push a lot more than 75w to the 6 pin pcie connector. This would be safe, but since it violates spec, it cannot be officially sanctioned.)
 
When my rx480 arrives in going to stick it in a rig that has the cheapest most garbage motherboard I can think of.... Alienware x51 R1. Then we will sees what's happens.
 
Imhotep said:
You guys must be on the weekend coolaid already. I have been a fan of this place since it started in the 90's. So please do not try to educate me....lol. Tuesday is around the corner. I too have to dip into the weekend coolaid. The world is ending next week...lol

Cheers
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Started last night half way done with a bottle of Glenlivet 12. Should finish by the we morning hours of Sunday. ;)
 
Has anyone noticed Amazon really has yet to stock up on any of these cards? Only reason i noticed is i would probably get one from there when that time comes....lol its like there sitting this out till the improved/ fixed cards come out.(which is fine by me)
 
For the people talking about other people's motives, what was AMD's motive to do such stupid oversight or purposeful screw up?

You guys want to kill the messenger but you don't' want to look at the problem

Guess what is this the problem with corporations today and in general our societies? Point the figure first and then let the problem die or take a step back and fix the problem first and see where everything falls out?

Don't post about other people's motives till ya look at the problem first. And then you don't even need to talk about the person's motives at that point cause the problem might be solved and it all goes away.
 
FighterOH said:
The messesenger are web review sites, not some forum posters? or am i wrong ?
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totally wrong, because you don't know what kind of mind are behind a forum poster.. =) we have people here at [H] with all kind of hardware expertise this 10 years ago used to be a place full technical educated guys, most of those guys aren't even active anymore, lately it's just full of kids with airs of something big because they now how to write some slash and backslash with dots at reddit. we have people here that are game designer, professionals from lot of areas, EE, IT, Software engineering, hardware engineering, never just never underestimate what kind of mind can be behind a forum name specially in this forum as here can be more technical skilled people that the own working on AMD or Nvidia.. ;) and I know couple of one here at [H] that can teach one thing or two to employees of those big companies..
 
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FighterOH said:
Well the day peoples, nomater subject becomes forum posters hidden behinde nicknames becomes messengers, that would be a sad day for humanety, or am i wrong there ?
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lol dude you think anonymity on the internet even exists?
 
primetime said:
Has anyone noticed Amazon really has yet to stock up on any of these cards? Only reason i noticed is i would probably get one from there when that time comes....lol its like there sitting this out till the improved/ fixed cards come out.(which is fine by me)
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No I don't think so I think newegg and amazon sold initial batch the first day. Given its 4th july idk if they will be stocking up with more before next week. Best Buy had the 4gb model in stock last night but it was gone after like 15 minutes.
 
Well it looks like the system worked. Release new cards to review sites. Products get drilled. Issues arise. Problems identified and patched. Consumers get decent products.

Sounds like a winner to me.
 
Araxie said:
totally wrong, because you don't know what kind of mind are behind a forum poster.. =) we have people here at [H] with all kind of hardware expertise this 10 years ago used to be a place full technical educated guys, most of those guys aren't even active anymore, lately it's just full of kids with airs of something big because they now how to write son slash and backslash with dots at reddit. we have people here that are game designer, professionals from lot of areas, EE, IT, Software engineering, hardware engineering, never just never underestimate what kind of mind can be behind a forum name specially in this forum as here can be more technical skilled people that the own working on AMD or Nvidia.. ;) and I know couple of one here at [H] that can teach one thing or two to employees of those big companies..
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Yeah 10 years ago so this was the place to go to get answers for any type of hardware problems. Its still good but there is a lot more noise.
 
primetime said:
Its not so much the message that bothers some of us.....For instance i KNOW some of you are not Trolls....Cause i see you help different people on all kinds of issues.....But there is one person here who is ONLY interested in bashing AMD 24/7 on every website he comes across.....Its obvious he has ulterior motives. I dont know if he just an ass clown or his paid by Nvidia. So for me a persons Motives matter.....Is that wrong? Maybe?..IDK..but its just the way i see it
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You've said something like this before, I told you I'm actually JHH and you didn't want to believe me. Meh.

I can be the biggest anti-AMD troll I want to be, it doesn't make my argument any less valid, and that is precisely one of the points I intended to make with this. You guys always accuse me of being biased whenever I say anything that goes against the AMD dogma, whether it's about async, or hardware scheduling, or PCI-E specs - now ignoring the question of whether that is a valid accusation or not. Let's assume I am, if the fact that you perceive me as a troll makes you unable to objectively evaluate an issue, then you are just as objective as you perceive me to be :) I didn't just make a big deal of out this power issue, I'm conducting an amusing little social experiment and most people's reactions are very inconsistent with their reactions to other 'news' (unlike mine, with no evidence) from equally (or even less) reputable sources.

Have you ever seen me calling someone an AMD fanboy? Nope, I just respond to the content, even though sometimes I believe they are ignorant and just pushing a narrative because they're too lazy to understand anything better.
 
Araxie said:
as I always say to every AMDlieber everyone believe what want to believe, you can't discuss with anyone who openly admit being an AMD fanboy.

ManofGod is a truly good guy, but he just love too much AMD and with that you can't really discuss, he upgraded from an AMD FX platform to i7 6700K then he never felt good about having an intel platform then downgraded again to an FX platform just to have peace of mind and be happy with AMD, I think it's a miracle he is using still the 980TI and not switched to Fury X..
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Thanks for the compliment. However, when it came to going from the FX to the 6700k, it ended up being a side grade at best. That is why I ended up going back to an FX 8300, which is also just a side grade, not a down grade and saved money in the process. After all, why should I have hundreds of dollars sitting inside a computer at home going unused when it made no real day to day difference at all. Honestly, I did not get a Fury X because it would not fit and the cost. I also made the grave mistake, to me, of purchasing the 980 Ti simply because a XFX Fury with the triple fan cooler simply would not fit in my case. (I was unwilling to buy a new case but, that would have been the best option for me at the time.)

Edit: Again, the cost of the 980 Ti is why I should not have bought it. The Fury was just $499 and I could have gotten a case I liked for about $70 on sale.
 
FighterOH said:
No ofcouse not, but we forum posters, we are just that. Messengers are thoose who can easy be verrified who are, like Kyle, like Techlab, like pcper and so on.
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Yet why aren't some of the forum members not understanding what those messengers are saying, its very clear, better yet why would they try to tout a youtuber that doesn't' understand what he is saying.

You know why because they themselves don't understand why the problem is there. Its a general lack of knowledge that is disturbing. Its a zealot mentality vs a high school education lol.

If the baseic education was there, you think Pc Persective would need someone to say I'm a EE on nuclear reactors in the Navy. Things like that are just unwarranted.
 
Sheppard said:
I fully agree and I hope you don't get banned for this.
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You are insinuating that this forum bans people based off of their preference for a particular brand. Why don't you start listing those users who were wrongfully banned?
 
razor1 said:
For the people talking about other people's motives, what was AMD's motive to do such stupid oversight or purposeful screw up?

You guys want to kill the messenger but you don't' want to look at the problem

Guess what is this the problem with corporations today and in general our societies? Point the figure first and then let the problem die or take a step back and fix the problem first and see where everything falls out?

Don't post about other people's motives till ya look at the problem first. And then you don't even need to talk about the person's motives at that point cause the problem might be solved and it all goes away.
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The problem here in this forum as well as others is some people are talking from the 2 extremes. One makes it sound like every MoBo with a 480 is gonna explode/burn in flames. The other like there will never be a problem. The facts are in the center likely closer to the "never a problem" side. AMD has a problem that is for sure and certain. But going into gang territory and shouting about the issue is not the wisest of strategies. (Kind of reminds me of Bruce Willis having to wear that billboard in Harlem(?) in Diehard)
 
JustReason said:
The problem here in this forum as well as others is some people are talking from the 2 extremes. One makes it sound like every MoBo with a 480 is gonna explode/burn in flames. The other like there will never be a problem. The facts are in the center likely closer to the "never a problem" side. AMD has a problem that is for sure and certain. But going into gang territory and shouting about the issue is not the wisest of strategies. (Kind of reminds me of Bruce Willis having to wear that billboard in Harlem(?) in Diehard)
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It doesn't matter how many mobos will be damaged, what matters is AMD claims it complies with the PCI-Express specification and it doesn't. Pure and simple. The fact that we already have reports of damaged boards just drives that point home. Don't buy products that are not within spec. Lambast AMD for misrepresenting the compliance to the spec.
 
Check this out from the Guru3D review of the ASUS Strix gtx 1080:

"The card has a 180 Watt rated TDP, 75-150 Watts is delivered though the PCIe slot, then 150 Watts through the 6- and 8-pin PEG (PCI Express graphics) power connectors. "

I am not a proclaimed Red or Green fanboy but this type of review language is why we need all the GPUs possible put under the "per rail" testing that the rx 480 has had.

The 480 definitely seems to have an issue with its current ref design or tuning but if PCIE overdraw is a thing then it can happen in other hardware too.
 
JustReason said:
The problem here in this forum as well as others is some people are talking from the 2 extremes. One makes it sound like every MoBo with a 480 is gonna explode/burn in flames. The other like there will never be a problem. The facts are in the center likely closer to the "never a problem" side. AMD has a problem that is for sure and certain. But going into gang territory and shouting about the issue is not the wisest of strategies. (Kind of reminds me of Bruce Willis having to wear that billboard in Harlem(?) in Diehard)
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I was trying to clear that up right from the start, unfortunately it doesn't always go that well, because people's emotions are involved, I must have said it at least 15 times, that its a simple problem. Yeah some people were just having fun with the issue, but not everyone takes it that way though.
 
FighterOH said:
PS razor, Adoretv, hehe i like him, but he a far from right, especially when he comes to the univers, wich he claim we here on earth are the only planet with somewhat intelligent life on, hrmf. And before i know hes name, hes just a youtube poster.
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I like the way he presents himself too, I just wish he would take a step back from what he says and thinks about it first lol. He has to understand to be successful in what I presume he wants to do for a long time, its better to fall now and fix his laissez faire attitude to understanding the technical aspects of what he talks about.

The first few videos he did were actual mostly good he broke down complex topics so others with less knowledge can understand what others were talking about. But after that he has become something else.
 
Ieldra said:
It doesn't matter how many mobos will be damaged, what matters is AMD claims it complies with the PCI-Express specification and it doesn't. Pure and simple. The fact that we already have reports of damaged boards just drives that point home. Don't buy products that are not within spec. Lambast AMD for misrepresenting the compliance to the spec.
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I wonder if you bashed Nvidia this hard with the 970? The reason you get so much flak is your approach to the issue. You come off as an ass because you don't want to see the other point of view. Sorry but because of this no one will take your points as fact and will likely assume you are another fanboy just fanning the flames.

Yes it is out of spec. So what does that mean? It shouldn't have the PCI-e label? Probably not since it doesn't meet that spec. Will it cause failures? Possibly, but to what degree is unknown. At stock likely failure rates will be just fractions of a %, with OCing having significantly higher rates.

We have looked at specs and the tolerances of the components in question. The PCI-e cables can in fact handle 2 times at minimum their rated capacity up to nearly 3 times even 4. The PCI slot has been shown to use up to 300W though I gather that is a quality board. I think 75-80W sustained is the max safe range with reason. Most of us rational souls believe the issue seems to be the 50/50 split the power pull seems to be utilizing and that is where the fix is. Also some state overvolting as another cause, hence why OCing becomes an even bigger issue.

Now notice what I did there. I gave the issue with possible causes and recourse. It doesn't appear I have an agenda from what I posted nor did I feel the need to fluff my feathers and pat myself on the back for bringing this little bit of knowledge to the masses.
 
There was definitely a few posters like

image.gif

And now we are seeing posts that are angry with people for bringing up the issue after AMD stated they found the problem lol.
 
JustReason said:
I wonder if you bashed Nvidia this hard with the 970? The reason you get so much flak is your approach to the issue. You come off as an ass because you don't want to see the other point of view. Sorry but because of this no one will take your points as fact and will likely assume you are another fanboy just fanning the flames.
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I couldn't, everyone else was too busy shouting about the RAM partioning on the 970 to actually give two shits about the real issue; misrepresented cache and ROP counts. lol. Nobody gave a shit about what I was saying.

It not being compliant with PCI-E means they will either fix it or get sued.

Yes it is out of spec. So what does that mean? It shouldn't have the PCI-e label? Probably not since it doesn't meet that spec. Will it cause failures? Possibly, but to what degree is unknown. At stock likely failure rates will be just fractions of a %, with OCing having significantly higher rates.


JustReason said:
We have looked at specs and the tolerances of the components in question. The PCI-e cables can in fact handle 2 times at minimum their rated capacity up to nearly 3 times even 4. The PCI slot has been shown to use up to 300W though I gather that is a quality board. I think 75-80W sustained is the max safe range with reason. Most of us rational souls believe the issue seems to be the 50/50 split the power pull seems to be utilizing and that is where the fix is. Also some state overvolting as another cause, hence why OCing becomes an even bigger issue.

Now notice what I did there. I gave the issue with possible causes and recourse. It doesn't appear I have an agenda from what I posted nor did I feel the need to fluff my feathers and pat myself on the back for bringing this little bit of knowledge to the masses.
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What you think is a safe sustained range is irrelevant unless you determine the PCI-E specs. 66W is the maximum; 12V @ 5.5A.

I'm sorry, but it's true. 300W through the PCI slot is 100% BULLSHIT. If you want to go forwards with this, please present evidence for 300W going through a PCI-E slot.

It's not just the 50/50 split; first of all the PCI-E appears to draw more, but it's the fact that the power draw increases with the load on the card; you typically only see this behavior on the PCI-E auxiliary power connectors, with the bus power draw being fairly constant.
 
razor1 said:
I was trying to clear that up right from the start, unfortunately it doesn't always go that well, because people's emotions are involved, I must have said it at least 15 times, that its a simple problem. Yeah some people were just having fun with the issue, but not everyone takes it that way though.
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I can cofirm that you have said it about 15 times. Because I have quoted you like 10 of them agreeing.

I think ieldra is posting everywhere around the net and that just gives people the impression that it seems like an agenda hence the hate towards him. I am cool though I don't lose any sleep over it. Everyone has their opinion and right to say what they want. I haven't seen him call names here so if he is passionate about going after AMD for this all over the internet. Well its his time and I don't think anyone should have any issue with it.
 
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