AMD boasts about running DOOM on Zen

Ok so you rather have all those tiny LGA pins attached to the back of the cpu where they can be more easily damaged? yes the pins in the motherboard are fragile, it's because they are small and weak, putting them on the cpu isn't any better really. SO PGA or LGA it doesn't matter. Repairing the pins on cpu (PGA) would be next to impossible just like they are in the LGA package. Let's just be perfectly honest here. Also being rated for a certain amount of removals? so most folks put a cpu in once and then leave it be until they need a new one, or they upgrade.
 
you make the stark assumption that the pins on the new cpus, can be durable. They cannot, the number of pins per inch is too high and thus you cannot have durable pins in a PGA package, unless the whole package size increased. PGA and LGA have the exact same problems.

we are not talking about cpus with 900 some pins anymore, we are talking 1000+. Please tell me more about how a PGA skylake-e would be with its 3000 some pins, if it was PGA the pins would be so small and fragile, that fixing them would be impossible if damaged without the aid of a microscope, and micro tools. The durability of the pins isn't a LGA or PGA problem, it's about the actual size of the pin. Making this whole debate pointless.
 
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Please tell me more about how a PGA skylake-e would be with its 3000 some pins,
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From the leaked picture the cpu looks to be considerably wider than current CPUs.
 
Take a look at the pins on a FX-8370 and compare it with a LGA1150/LGA2011 or even LGA1151 socket. Which one do you think is more durable?
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Having installed 100+ processors (using both designs), I would give the edge to Intel on that. Neither is perfect I have seen/had issues with both methods.
 
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I don't think the number of pins has any relation to the choice between socket types. LGA3647 will have more pins because it supports 6 channel ram + it adds additional PCIe lanes. AMD will have more pins on their server socket next year (rumored to have 8 channel ram) for the same reason.
 
It's around 200 pins per additional RAM channel. I am not sure how many are needed for a PCIe lane so I can't comment on that.


that there are alot of redundant pins
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Many of the redundant pins are ground and power (needed for current draw) and others are needed for signaling.

With that said I do agree that Intel's need not switch sockets every 3 years.
 
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My CC is waiting, Zen can't get here fast enough. Already have my 4790K godbox, I just want to build another AMD-based box, but not from the bulldozer family. Well maybe if they ever release a non-mobile Carrizo apu (ie, not the Athlon X4 845), and it had a decent uplift over Godavari.
 
For me the frustration is the Zen cpus I would be most interested in will not arrive in 2016. I mean the 16 core Zen on the server platform (with possible 8 channel ram) is a 2017 part and so are the Zen based APUs.
 
drescherjm said:
For me the frustration is the Zen cpus I would be most interested in will not arrive in 2016. I mean the 16 core Zen on the server platform (with possible 8 channel ram) is a 2017 part and so are the Zen based APUs.
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I'm so hoping that this is finally something they can build upon and get going again... So it is not even this release of Zen that is holding my interest. If Zen+ can improve a good deal that I'm most curious about.
 
GothamsReckoning said:
I don't make assumptions. Take a look at the pins on a FX-8370 and compare it with a LGA1150/LGA2011 or even LGA1151 socket. Which one do you think is more durable? Just because you have increased pin density doesn't mean anything unless there is an even contact surface and weight. Now compare the diameter and pin base on a FX-8370. It's much more durable and much easier to bend back than the pins on an LGA socket.

This debate isn't pointless. If you haven't seen the socket size of Skylake-E (LGA3647) you should take a look as it offers no advantage over PGA's AM4 socket. From the pictures of the Zen CPU you can see it's obviously going to be much smaller than what a Skylake-E CPU would be while providing similar features and functionality including DDR4 support. In this case the debate isn't pointless because Intel keeps increasing their socket size while AMD is still keeping their socket and packaging relatively the same size (although AM4 may not be backwards compatible).

Also again I am repeating myself but Intel uses rPGA (Socket G1 , G2, G3) as well. If PGA was obsolete and irrelevant then why is it that Intel's own reasoning for introducing LGA775 in 2004 is just an excuse to shift the blame and responsibility to motherboard manufacturers to bear the costs of socket repair? That excuse goes out the window when you have say a $100 CPU but the motherboard costs $300. Also there isn't really any empirical proof that LGA provides better power delivery and stability versus PGA.
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you are going to use a old FX cpu for comparison that's design is over 5 years old? that has pci 2.0 and dual channel ddr3 memory. Am3+ has 942 pins still under 1000, and doesn't support half the features of the newer intel cpus. Also LGA-3647 offers huge advantage over AM4, it supports more memory channels, has more pci-e lanes, etc etc.

Intel had to increase their package size for LGA-3647 due to the pin count. If Intel used a PGA socket for Skylake-E, the package size would be almost double the LGA socket size. The reason AMD is able to keep a smaller socket is because they don't support as many features POINT BLANK. Socket AM4 features 1331 pins bit of a step up for them. They are still doing PGA, but I suspect many will complain about damaging the pins on the cpu. I suspect this will be the upper limit for PGA being feasible, unless the package size grows to the size of the skylake-e socket.

The point of LGA is simple, to increase pin density, allowing for smaller package sizes as the pin count increases to support more features. Even AMD goes with a LGA socket for their server parts.
 
maybe start a pga vs lga thread, let this one get back on topic...

I didn't realize that zen has apu versions. so if this is doom running on a zen igpu that looks pretty damn good! budget gaming might be getting even cheaper!
 
Doom running on Zen is simply marketing for both parties. Nothing wrong with that. I am very excited for Zen. Very excited.

Talking about pins, pga vs lga. Both has has the same amount of chance to bend, only difference is with pins it is easier to repair if the damage isn't devastating. Precision pliers, luck and a steady hand is all you need.
 
To bad they were not running fraps when testing.Would have liked to see what ZEN was capable of doing in doom
 
DrDoU said:
To bad they were not running fraps when testing.Would have liked to see what ZEN was capable of doing in doom
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I did not check Doom but if it was gpu limited it wouldn't matter what the cpu did ;)
 
drescherjm said:
For me the frustration is the Zen cpus I would be most interested in will not arrive in 2016. I mean the 16 core Zen on the server platform (with possible 8 channel ram) is a 2017 part and so are the Zen based APUs.
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Me too. It's hard to even find any Zen Opteron info it's always the same "32 cores" rumor. Is the socket even known?
 
unholythree said:
Me too. It's hard to even find any Zen Opteron info it's always the same "32 cores" rumor. Is the socket even known?
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they have not released public info on Zen server platforms yet. I suppose it's possible they could keep socket G34, but likely introduce something new.
 
ebduncan said:
they have not released public info on Zen server platforms yet. I suppose it's possible they could keep socket G34, but likely introduce something new.
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Wasn't there a plan to do some APU for servers as well that server socket using that proprietary technology instead of PCIe?
 
Do we have any information on the AM4 chipset? Is it the 1090FX that is being resurrected with updated feature sets?
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I expect it will be considerably changed. Is HyperTransport gone?
 
GothamsReckoning said:
Do we have any information on the AM4 chipset? Is it the 1090FX that is being resurrected with updated feature sets?
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No details beside the usual suspects M.2 USB 3.1 not to much else

AMD's next-gen AM4 socket pictured on the ASUS ROG Crosshair VI Impact
ASUS ROG Crosshair VI Impact Motherboard With AM4 Socket Pictured – Supports Bristol Ridge and Summit Ridge CPUs, Up To 4133 MHz DDR4 OC Memory | SamantaNews.Com
http://www.bitsandchips.it/english/...zen-is-on-track-and-will-be-available-in-4q16

Can't find the article where some big wig of AMD said they would compete with Intel and it has some additional info
 
I like the logo that they put on the IHS...the hand painted graffiti-style circle with the word ZEN inside of it. Need to dump the block lettering and make the letters look hand painted too, though. Would give a sense of savage badassery and increase the curb appeal to those shopping for desktops, laptops, and tablets after seeing a CPU badge/sticker/logo like that either on floor demos or etailer sites, imo.
 
GothamsReckoning said:
Do we have any information on the AM4 chipset? Is it the 1090FX that is being resurrected with updated feature sets?
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AMD seems to be going system on a chip with their newer chips. If there is a chipset for zen it will most likely be a very minimal one.
 
What's so great about it running doom? Pretty sure a cpu made 5yrs ago can run doom just fine with no hiccups too.
 
kyriptic said:
What's so great about it running doom? Pretty sure a cpu made 5yrs ago can run doom just fine with no hiccups too.
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What's so great about it running doom? I am sure my Cyrix processor can run it. /s :rolleyes:
 
kyriptic said:
Oohh, I wasn't aware it was using on board GPU. Now it makes sense.
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My sarcasm was directed at the wrong person then and misplaced, sorry about that. However, CaptNumbNutz does not make sense in this case since Zen is a CPU only architecture. I will have to re watch the video to see what they are saying.

Edit: Just re watched the video and it appears I was wrong, they are running the Summit Ridge Zen based APU with Doom 2016. :) That makes it even better! ;)
 
So Zen desktop possible limited release of product in the 4th quarter; but projected release in early 2017. Unless I heard Lisa Su wrong. :)

Notebooks with integrated graphics in 1st quarter or 1st half 2017. (Didn't really care; sorry.)

Zen server chips are in AMD labs and in the labs of customers to see how they fit the workloads of customers. 1st half 2017.
 
ManofGod said:
My sarcasm was directed at the wrong person then and misplaced, sorry about that. However, CaptNumbNutz does not make sense in this case since Zen is a CPU only architecture. I will have to re watch the video to see what they are saying.

Edit: Just re watched the video and it appears I was wrong, they are running the Summit Ridge Zen based APU with Doom 2016. :) That makes it even better! ;)
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Haha no worries, i got a good chuckle out of the cyrix mention.
 
thesmokingman said:
The telling part is that this uptick doesn't include Polaris and Zen is a quarter away with Vegans 2 qtrs maybe.
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At their investor call its quite clear that Zen is now a 2017 product, Vega is a H1 2017 product.
 
Shintai said:
At their investor call its quite clear that Zen is now a 2017 product, Vega is a H1 2017 product.
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They said there is a possibility of a limited desktop release in quarter 4 2016 followed by the full release in 2017.
 
cageymaru said:
They said there is a possibility of a limited desktop release in quarter 4 2016 followed by the full release in 2017.
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Oh well, not planning any upgrades to 2017 at the earliest anyways. Besides, I would probably do both my computers at the same time but, we will see. I would imagine the limited desktop release in 2016 will be taken up by those willing to camp and spam F5 on Newegg and Amazon. Just hope it is not some idiot re sellers trying to make a profit, screw them.
 
buttons said:
I agree. I see a lot of intel motherboards with bent pins, hell i ordered an X58 sabertooth and it showed up with bent pins. Never had a bent pin issue with all the amds i built which is 2-3 dozen at least.
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No idea who or where you buy from..but I would stop using them if I were you.

Out of... 6 Intel Motherboards I've done over the years, Zero has had bent pins from manufacturer.

That includes...

P55
P67
Z97
 
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