NCASE M1 version changelog and suggestions thread

Necere said:
The M1 has never come with filters for the top panel. V1-V3 came with just the plastic filters that screw into 120mm fans, while V4 and later added a steel fan bracket with one piece magnetic filter for the side.

Did you get yours second hand? The only way you're likely to have a filter for the top is if its the Demciflex filter.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I had gotten it second hand. Didn't know that it was 3rd party. Neato.

Phuncz said:
Maybe the issues already discussed should be condensed in a FAQ on the first post, so it's easier for the new people.
Click to expand...

That sounds like a good idea! I have no doubt that I'd be one to get on your nerves in that respect (only got into SFX in general a few months back), and I'd love a resource like that.
 
Any chance of any improvements for bottom mounted 240mm radiators? There's a number of builds swimming around using a slim rad and slim fans under the GPU, but many are left as 'floating' rads because screwholes don't line up. Personally unsure if those holes would conflict with existing cuts. It would be pretty sweet to be able to get back any amount of mm in height beneath the GPU for this type of stuff, but from staring at the case myself I'm not sure there's much that could be done without changing the overall case/panel height.

Example (EK 240 SE Slim rad w/ Silverstone 15mm Slim Fans):

IMG_003.JPG
 
astheria said:
Any chance of any improvements for bottom mounted 240mm radiators? There's a number of builds swimming around using a slim rad and slim fans under the GPU, but many are left as 'floating' rads because screwholes don't line up. Personally unsure if those holes would conflict with existing cuts. It would be pretty sweet to be able to get back any amount of mm in height beneath the GPU for this type of stuff, but from staring at the case myself I'm not sure there's much that could be done without changing the overall case/panel height.

Example (EK 240 SE Slim rad w/ Silverstone 15mm Slim Fans):

IMG_003.JPG
Click to expand...
Yeah, it's only possible by making the case taller, and that's not something that's in the cards for the M1. My position has always been that compatibility needs to be retained across different revisions to allow parts to be replaced, and changing the height would break that.
 
Necere said:
Yeah, it's only possible by making the case taller, and that's not something that's in the cards for the M1. My position has always been that compatibility needs to be retained across different revisions to allow parts to be replaced, and changing the height would break that.
Click to expand...

Would it be possible to have a shaped side panel created with an "outdent" to create some additional space between the side panel and case. That could be pretty nifty for creating some space on the sides of the case for cable routing without impacting compatibility on the chassis itself.
 
NeoMatriX724 said:
Would it be possible to have a shaped side panel created with an "outdent" to create some additional space between the side panel and case. That could be pretty nifty for creating some space on the sides of the case for cable routing without impacting compatibility on the chassis itself.
Click to expand...
That's done using stamping, which requires pretty expensive tooling. It would probably only allow an extra couple millimeters clearance anyway, which wouldn't make much difference in the scheme of things.
 
Hi Necere,

First of all, congratulations for such a wonderful case. I am really impressed about its quality and engineering, really good job. It is by far the best case I have ever had (actually I have named my PC as 'M1 Graphic Station', I'm so proud I finally pulled the trigger for the M1...), no doubt I will recommend it to anyone and will keep an eye on your future projects.

Just a couple of minor things to consider just in case they fit in your development plans:

- Case Feet: Although they are ok, they could be improved to help reducing vibrations. This is a small & stylish case that invites you to place it on the desk, less dust and better looking right?. However, vibrations may be amplified through typical wooden desks. We tend to pack the case with plenty of stuff (fans, radiators, components, etc) and, eventhough I use silicone mounts for fans, aluminium is very prone to propagate vibrations. The easiest and cheapest way to minimize this effect is using adecuate feet. I found the ones that came with the case a bit hard for that purpose. I guess they are padded with a slim layer of foam, but given the weight of a completed build (around 5-8kg), that is not enough. The best solution would be to mimic the feet that have been sold for years for Hi-Fi and high end speakers. They are just made of soft silicone gel or some ellastic polymer, much more indicated for asborbing and dampening audible low freq. vibration than foam or standard rubber. You can take a look at some examples here, here or here. Notice the design optimized to reduce contact surface while keeping stability to a good level, and also a proper softness for a given weight.

- Fan Filters: Is it possible to make them slimmer? Or at least, try to reduce thickness in the semi-holes attachment area. When used in combination with soft silicone mounts for fans, they can barely be attached due to the plastic frame thickness. An example here, they are forced to fit with those mounts.
 
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JavierCalzado said:
Hi Necere,

First of all, congratulations for such a wonderful case. I am really impressed about its quality and engineering, really good job. It is by far the best case I have ever had (actually I have named my PC as 'M1 Graphic Station', I'm so proud I finally pulled the trigger for the M1...), no doubt I will recommend it to anyone and will keep an eye on your future projects.

Just a couple of minor things to consider just in case they fit in your development plans:

- Case Feet: Although they are ok, they could be improved to help reducing vibrations. This is a small & stylish case that invites you to place it on the desk, less dust and better looking right?. However, vibrations may be amplified through typical wooden desks. We tend to pack the case with plenty of stuff (fans, radiators, components, etc) and, eventhough I use silicone mounts for fans, aluminium is very prone to propagate vibrations. The easiest and cheapest way to minimize this effect is using adecuate feet. I found the ones that came with the case a bit hard for that purpose. I guess they are padded with a slim layer of foam, but given the weight of a completed build (around 5-8kg), that is not enough. The best solution would be to mimic the feet that have been sold for years for Hi-Fi and high end speakers. They are just made of soft silicone gel or some ellastic polymer, much more indicated for asborbing and dampening audible low freq. vibration than foam or standard rubber. You can take a look at some examples here, here or here. Notice the design optimized to reduce contact surface while keeping stability to a good level, and also a proper softness for a given weight.

- Fan Filters: Is it possible to make them slimmer? Or at least, try to reduce thickness in the semi-holes attachment area. When used in combination with soft silicone mounts for fans, they can barely be attached due to the plastic frame thickness. An example here, they are forced to fit with those mounts.
Click to expand...
The feet and filters we used were what Lian Li had available, so that's what we used. I've never been totally happy with the filter situation, to be honest, and while the V4+ magnetic filter is an improvement for the side bracket, the bottom filters are still the original plastic-framed ones from LL's parts bin. I suppose we could try to source some different ones, but it will depend on what's available and the MOQ.

The feet you linked are IMO a bit ugly, and all the wrong sizes. I know you're just using them as examples, but the feet due play an aesthetic role, so they would have to complement the rest of the design. Finding these type of feet in the correct size for the M1 that will work both functionally and aesthetically seems like a bit of a long shot, but it's something I'll keep in mind for future products, at least.
 
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Necere said:
M1 changelog

M1 v5:

  • Front USB 3.0 ports cleaner look (removed port edges flanges), [strike=]color changed from blue to black[/s] (USB ports will remain blue due to supplier issue).
  • Motherboard tray is now fastened with screws instead of rivets to facilitate replacement or modding.

M1 v4:

  • Fan bracket changed to steel and magnetic filter is now included
  • Fan bracket mounts changed to allow 2mm of additional travel (allows 140mm fan w/120mm mounting holes to be used alongside a 120mm fan)

M1 v3:

  • Braces added to bottom corners of chassis for increased rigidity/decreased probability of wobbling
  • 0.3mm decrease in side and front panel height
  • Extra QC for wobbling & panel uniformity
  • SFX bracket raised 2mm and flange trimmed for better SFX-L support (CAUTION: SFX-L is still a very tight fit with long GPUs, even with the revised bracket)
  • Additional motherboard standoffs added for compact mATX boards (226x173mm max w/SFX bracket; see thread and google docs spreadsheet)
  • Slightly increased CPU cutout size

M1 v2:

  • Enlarged CPU cutout upward on motherboard tray
  • Additional cutouts at bottom of motherboard tray
  • Move rear 92mm fan and tubing holes down 2mm
  • Additional 3.5" HDD mounting location at forward bottom of chassis
  • Cable tie holes on chassis bottom reduced from 10 to 5
  • SSD stacking brackets modified to allow stacked 7mm thick SDDs closer
  • ATX PSU bracket moved back to allow more clearance behind chassis front
  • 3.5" HDD cage fixed to work in upper fan bracket position
  • ODD bracket screw holes reduced for better M2 screw fit
  • No top panel screw
  • More SSD mounting screws
  • Extra side panel clips
  • Dome head M5 screws changed to flat head M5
  • Shortened internal AC cable, changed to left angle
  • Threaded inserts at side bracket mounting points
  • Sub-millimeter increases to exterior panel dimensions to mitigate panel warping
  • Feet color changed to black for silver cases
Click to expand...
Beautiful, I needed this.
 
Is the front I/O panel removable? If so, this opens up to possibility to upgrade it in the future with one featuring USB Type-C ports, offered separately from the NCase store. If the panel is not removable, perhaps consider making it easily removable in the next version, so people will have the option to upgrade down the line. I think this may be a big selling point for the case as it'll make it highly futureproof. Built-in I/O is a big part of what makes cases obsolete.
 
astheria said:
Any chance of any improvements for bottom mounted 240mm radiators? There's a number of builds swimming around using a slim rad and slim fans under the GPU, but many are left as 'floating' rads because screwholes don't line up. Personally unsure if those holes would conflict with existing cuts. It would be pretty sweet to be able to get back any amount of mm in height beneath the GPU for this type of stuff, but from staring at the case myself I'm not sure there's much that could be done without changing the overall case/panel height.

Example (EK 240 SE Slim rad w/ Silverstone 15mm Slim Fans):

IMG_003.JPG
Click to expand...
Wow, this is beautiful... what the heck am I looking at, in terms of specific components, in this M1?
 
astheria said:
Any chance of any improvements for bottom mounted 240mm radiators? There's a number of builds swimming around using a slim rad and slim fans under the GPU, but many are left as 'floating' rads because screwholes don't line up. Personally unsure if those holes would conflict with existing cuts. It would be pretty sweet to be able to get back any amount of mm in height beneath the GPU for this type of stuff, but from staring at the case myself I'm not sure there's much that could be done without changing the overall case/panel height.

Example (EK 240 SE Slim rad w/ Silverstone 15mm Slim Fans):

IMG_003.JPG
Click to expand...

How do you know they are "floating radiators"? Are there simply no mounting points for a bottom 240 slim rad?
 
Speadyjooce said:
How do you know they are "floating radiators"? Are there simply no mounting points for a bottom 240 slim rad?
Click to expand...
I started with my radiator screwed down, but it ended up being problematic. I find it actually a lot easier with the radiator floating. Between the fans, the graphics card and the cable and tube routing, the rad is pretty firmly in place and doesn't really vibrate or wobble or anything unseemly. It's just not bolted down.

It's fairly difficult to get the radiator fully lined up along the bottom of the case. My bottom rad is actually floating and angled slightly. The primary reason is the front panel connectors and how their cables are routed. They somewhat line up with where the fittings of the bottom rad come out (incidentally, also the longest part of the radiator). My advice is to get the absolute shortest radiator you can find if you want to mount the radiator.

I left mine floating because I wasn't comfortable with how much stress was on the front-panel connectors when the radiator was screwed in (3 of 8 mount points could be used due to angling).
 
NeoMatriX724 said:
I started with my radiator screwed down, but it ended up being problematic. I find it actually a lot easier with the radiator floating. Between the fans, the graphics card and the cable and tube routing, the rad is pretty firmly in place and doesn't really vibrate or wobble or anything unseemly. It's just not bolted down.

It's fairly difficult to get the radiator fully lined up along the bottom of the case. My bottom rad is actually floating and angled slightly. The primary reason is the front panel connectors and how their cables are routed. They somewhat line up with where the fittings of the bottom rad come out (incidentally, also the longest part of the radiator). My advice is to get the absolute shortest radiator you can find if you want to mount the radiator.

I left mine floating because I wasn't comfortable with how much stress was on the front-panel connectors when the radiator was screwed in (3 of 8 mount points could be used due to angling).
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Ahh okay, I wasn't aware! Thanks for the info. :)
 
Need more plastic and rgb lighting :D

In all seriousness how about a side panel set that has vent holes extending down to the gpu compartment, it should help greatly with open gpu coolers since they can intake from the bottom fans and passively exhaust out the side.
 
shinjinian said:
In all seriousness how about a side panel set that has vent holes extending down to the gpu compartment, it should help greatly with open gpu coolers since they can intake from the bottom fans and passively exhaust out the side.
Click to expand...
I've addressed this in the past, see this post.
 
Necere said:
The feet and filters we used were what Lian Li had available, so that's what we used. I've never been totally happy with the filter situation, to be honest, and while the V4+ magnetic filter is an improvement for the side bracket, the bottom filters are still the original plastic-framed ones from LL's parts bin. I suppose we could try to source some different ones, but it will depend on what's available and the MOQ.

The feet you linked are IMO a bit ugly, and all the wrong sizes. I know you're just using them as examples, but the feet due play an aesthetic role, so they would have to complement the rest of the design. Finding these type of feet in the correct size for the M1 that will work both functionally and aesthetically seems like a bit of a long shot, but it's something I'll keep in mind for future products, at least.
Click to expand...

Regarding the fan filters, I would suggest the following approach:

- Get rid of current LL and metal filters, replace with OEM filters like demciflex which covers both sides and bottom.
or
- Get rid of current LL and metal filters (reduce price if possible LOL) and make OEM filters like demciflex available as accessories.
 
Necere said:
I've addressed this in the past, see this post.
Click to expand...
Makes sense

billyy said:
Regarding the fan filters, I would suggest the following approach:

- Get rid of current LL and metal filters, replace with OEM filters like demciflex which covers both sides and bottom.
or
- Get rid of current LL and metal filters (reduce price if possible LOL) and make OEM filters like demciflex available as accessories.
Click to expand...
The amount of money it would take to have Lian Li to retool and produce filters wouldn't be worth it. Honestly I don't see the filters being a big issue, they're not that bad. It would be cool if the Ncase was designed for off the shelf slot in filters from another case but the design time is better spent on other improvements/projects.
 
Make a left windowed sidepanel for purchasing as an accessorie on ncases.com
would so much buy one :)
 
Sebbie said:
Make a left windowed sidepanel for purchasing as an accessorie on ncases.com
would so much buy one :)
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Would 100% Buy a top or side window panel with zero reservations. Though I understand why they didn't make one. a Solid window panel would impact the ventilation of the case quite a bit.
 
NeoMatriX724 said:
Would 100% Buy a top or side window panel with zero reservations. Though I understand why they didn't make one. a Solid window panel would impact the ventilation of the case quite a bit.
Click to expand...

Maybe a tiny bit, thats why it should be an optional accessorie purchaseable at their homepage... i would anytime sacrifice a little bit af ventilation for showing of my internals. Nowadays nearly every component come with seperate RBG lightning e.g. motherboards, graphic cards, RAM modules etc. its a shame not to utilize it!
And if you are watercooling your rig, all your hard work from planning the loop order to leak testing etc., should be awarded with a nice window so you can proudly show the awesomeness your created to your friends :)
 
When you said "a tiny bit", auto-correct suggested you mean "a whole lot". Without that side panel perforation, top-down CPU heatsinks are generally not going to perform well and you miss the only good spot to mount two fans if you are using a full size GPU. Considering most people use open-cooler GPUs, this means your CPU will have to deal with the heat exhausted by your GPU without fail. It's trading in a whole lot of performance (noise and thermal throttling) just to see some colored LEDs. And here I was thinking people watch the monitor, not the computer, since the computer does all the processing, while the monitor does all the displaying.

The RGB lighting is a thing because marketing persuaded you that you need it, without it actually being of much use except peacocking. If you seriously think watercooling is meant to be shown off instead of, you know, cool stuff, you are using the wrong form factor.
 
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So the USB header connector on the Ncase is a 20 pin not a 19 pin right?

Edit: Wrong thread sorry.
 
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Phuncz said:
When you said "a tiny bit", auto-correct suggested you mean "a whole lot". Without that side panel perforation, top-down CPU heatsinks are generally not going to perform well and you miss the only good spot to mount two fans if you are using a full size GPU. Considering most people use open-cooler GPUs, this means your CPU will have to deal with the heat exhausted by your GPU without fail. It's trading in a whole lot of performance (noise and thermal throttling) just to see some colored LEDs. And here I was thinking people watch the monitor, not the computer, since the computer does all the processing, while the monitor does all the displaying.

The RGB lighting is a thing because marketing persuaded you that you need it, without it actually being of much use except peacocking. If you seriously think watercooling is meant to be shown off instead of, you know, cool stuff, you are using the wrong form factor.
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That is why it is not a suggestion in changing the Ncases layout, as i've pointet out it should be an optional accessorie.
And you "a whole lot", do you have any numbers/data too proof that statement?
If your mount the bottom fans as intake and have a 92mm in a rear position exhausting air out the back and passively exhasting warm air out the top (we all know hot air is lighter than cold air)

But ye open CPU coolers would suffer more with a window as sidepanel than the normal ventilatet + sidebracket configuration now.

Well i personal dont want to spend a alot of money extra going watercooling than standard air cooling and use time making everything look tight and snug and just hide it all away inside a case.
And why wouldnt you show of a watercooled rig? but its probably a matter of taste...
 
Sebbie said:
That is why it is not a suggestion in changing the Ncases layout, as i've pointet out it should be an optional accessorie.
And you "a whole lot", do you have any numbers/data too proof that statement?
If your mount the bottom fans as intake and have a 92mm in a rear position exhausting air out the back and passively exhasting warm air out the top (we all know hot air is lighter than cold air)

But ye open CPU coolers would suffer more with a window as sidepanel than the normal ventilatet + sidebracket configuration now.

Well i personal dont want to spend a alot of money extra going watercooling than standard air cooling and use time making everything look tight and snug and just hide it all away inside a case.
And why wouldnt you show of a watercooled rig? but its probably a matter of taste...
Click to expand...


Both of you make fair points, but using my very scientific test of putting my hand on my case, that particular side panel takes the most heat. The 240mm radiator is up against it, and it's the primary air exhaust for it. It gets fairly warm. With a window panel there, that air would be redirected to the top bottom and back into the case. The top and sides stay relatively cool to the touch so in terms of work, that side is taking the brunt of it.

In terms of showing off my computer...I pretty much rattle off my specs and then ask my friends to find my PC. That usually is a pretty big "show-off" to them. Also fairly easy to pop the side panel when they get curious =).
 
Sebbie said:
That is why it is not a suggestion in changing the Ncases layout, as i've pointet out it should be an optional accessorie.
Click to expand...
True, it's also just my opinion on the matter. I just don't want people to think the holes are an aesthetic feature, but an integral part of the case ventilation.

Sebbie said:
And you "a whole lot", do you have any numbers/data too proof that statement?
If your mount the bottom fans as intake and have a 92mm in a rear position exhausting air out the back and passively exhasting warm air out the top (we all know hot air is lighter than cold air)
Click to expand...
I don't know if Necere or anyone else made a direct comparison, also because you'd use different coolers for both scenarios. Still it's common sense, a single 92mm fan isn't going to be replacing two 120mm fans without it running a lot louder. Don't overestimate natural convection, a single fan is able to overcome that force with ease. Try it with a sheet of paper.


Sebbie said:
And why wouldnt you show of a watercooled rig?
Click to expand...
Because you would buy it for the cooling performance. Showing off is a short-lived experience.
 
Phuncz said:
True, it's also just my opinion on the matter. I just don't want people to think the holes are an aesthetic feature, but an integral part of the case ventilation.


I don't know if Necere or anyone else made a direct comparison, also because you'd use different coolers for both scenarios. Still it's common sense, a single 92mm fan isn't going to be replacing two 120mm fans without it running a lot louder. Don't overestimate natural convection, a single fan is able to overcome that force with ease. Try it with a sheet of paper.



Because you would buy it for the cooling performance. Showing off is a short-lived experience.
Click to expand...
People dictate what's worth it to them. Denying the appeal of a windowed case is foolish. The appeal is real and a huge market. Keep the vents and make the side clear. The illuminated gpu is in an area with no vents anyway. Meaning it would show easily.
 
Personally I find it tacky.

However, the only thing that matters is MOQ. That is, if Lian Li makes it available in the first place.
 
how about you mod your existing panel and add perforations to the plexy/acrylic. best of both...
 
Well if i had the tools and the skills to do it, i would!
Have never tried cutting in an aluminium sheet before...
Would rather pay someone who have the knowledge (e.g. Ncase/Lian Li) doing it :)
 
its waaaay easier than you think but you can get a local shop to cut it for you then get plexy and glue or 3m tape it in.
 
Dunno if that was already brought up or even if Necere is still up to make modifications for a next revision, anyway here is what I've found:
Right now, the only way to remove the PSU is by slidding it down.
So as I have a D5 pump in my build under the PSU, I need to remove the former prior to being able to remove the latter.

From what I see, the PSU could have been removed by pulling it off the side of the case if there was a cutout on the chassis leg (front left) next to the PSU.

Would that weaken the rigidity of the chassis?
 
Not sure whether this suggestion really belongs here at all.....

But I'd love to see some Ncase M1 / Dan A4 hybrid where the GPU is stacked on top of the motherboard with a riser cable. This would clear the way to drop everything onto the floor of the case and to make room for a top radiator.

Why top radiator? - Having a bottom radiator doesn't really make sense nor work very well in practice, but a top radiator is ideal for ventilating the case and to avoid the issue of the case only venting heat to one side.

This arrangement would also appeal to those users who want a case that can handle high end builds ( Typical of Ncase buyers I guess?) for whom the Dan A4 is too thermally limited.
 
BaK2BaK said:
From what I see, the PSU could have been removed by pulling it off the side of the case if there was a cutout on the chassis leg (front left) next to the PSU.

Would that weaken the rigidity of the chassis?
Click to expand...
Yes it would.

Chapeau said:
Not sure whether this suggestion really belongs here at all.....

But I'd love to see some Ncase M1 / Dan A4 hybrid where the GPU is stacked on top of the motherboard with a riser cable. This would clear the way to drop everything onto the floor of the case and to make room for a top radiator.

Why top radiator? - Having a bottom radiator doesn't really make sense nor work very well in practice, but a top radiator is ideal for ventilating the case and to avoid the issue of the case only venting heat to one side.

This arrangement would also appeal to those users who want a case that can handle high end builds ( Typical of Ncase buyers I guess?) for whom the Dan A4 is too thermally limited.
Click to expand...
I've thought about this kind of arrangement, but the problem I have with it is it really almost requires that you use water cooling, as air cooler support would be poor and there'd be wasted space at the top without a radiator. Also there are issues with tube routing with this layout.
 
Necere said:
Yes it would.

I've thought about this kind of arrangement, but the problem I have with it is it really almost requires that you use water cooling, as air cooler support would be poor and there'd be wasted space at the top without a radiator. Also there are issues with tube routing with this layout.
Click to expand...

It is definitely a niche request - Do you know what proportion of buyers are water cooling in the case?
- Maybe a fun project would be a WC optimised SFF case from scratch. I think that would be a first... (y)
 
Would it help if you could increase the width to vacate some room for large cpu cooler such as noctua nh-d15?
 
danny.nguyen said:
Would it help if you could increase the width to vacate some room for large cpu cooler such as noctua nh-d15?
Click to expand...
That's an extra ~30mm of width, at which point it really wouldn't be the same case anymore. Also, one of my rules about version changes is that they should not introduce incompatibilities between versions (i.e., parts from V5 should fit V1 and vice-versa), which a major change to the dimensions would certainly do.
 
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