I think I don't like Apple anymore

I don't think I like Apple Computers as a company anymore because I tried to upgrade the hard drives in my parents Mac Pro while visiting from the original 1 Terabyte drives to 2 TB Solid State Hybrid's and I couldn't redo the raid without having to resort to using the Snow Leopard DVD or reinstall El Capitan from the Recovery USB flash drive. I had to resort to using the Snow Leopard DVD because their Recovery Assistant 1.0 program flashed my thumb drive to El Capitan, which prevented me from redoing the RAID with Mountain Lion or Lion that was originally on the drive. I used the recovery assistant on the flash drive because I thought the flash drive was corrupt and the one with El Capitan.

I know I can use Mavericks or Yosemite to redo the RAID if I'm not mistaken because RAID support stopped with El Capitan, so I redid one with Mavericks just to be safer if at all, but it didn't help and neither did using one of the back USB ports. I don't know who's to blame, but Apple should be to blame as to why Recovery Assistant flashed my thumb drive to El Capitan instead of Lion or Mountain Lion, like it said it would. Finally if all the hard drives in both my Mid 2012 Mac Pro's fail then their just paper weights and I'm not to happy about that because I paid alot for them hoping to have an easy to use computer for my parents that worked reliably unlike Windows PC and Complex Linux or BSD UNIX Machines, such as Debian or PC-BSD considering they may have had to resort to command line to make them work.

I don't want to have to buy them a new computer, but even my Macbook is having issues because it shorted itself on and keeps rebooting when I login. I use Windows, Linux, and Mac as host OSes, but haven't Used BSD UNIX as a host yet. Therefore I pretty neutral to all of them, but find myself having more problem with Windows and Mac then any Linux or UNIX. I've only tried FreeBSD and found it to be a good learning experience, but to complex for the average user and I haven't tried PC-BSD to see if it just works as well as they claim it should if that's what I desire. I personally, try any OS to see how simple it is and to see if it's simple enough to recommend to the average user.

I can't afford a new Mac Pro and don't like Mac Mini's or iMac's because their not as customizable as the Mac Pro and even that's becoming more restricted with each new Mac Pro or any other Mac. I just to be able to upgrade the processor, memory, hard drives, optical drives or add them internally considering these aren't in newer mac's, and add other expansion cards, like RAID cards, Sound Cards, and TV cards at least, but Apple won't let me and forces me to use external optical drives, sound cards, and tv cards or anthing else that could be added internally in the past. I don't care if everything is moving to the cloud either and they think I don't need this stuff because I paid for the computer and I want to be able to do what I want with my computer, but they dictate everything I can I can do with my Mac and I don't like it.

I have a PC's too and more up to date than the Mac Pro's, but don't know what I should do about my Mac's and how if if I want to support them in the future if I have to deal with this. I don't like that Microsoft and Apple are forcing me to update without giving me something I want to upgrade to either because I have to upgrade to Windows 10 before July 29th 2016 or else it's not free and Apple did this to me. There's not to much else out there for me to choose from that isn't Linux or UNIX and that are modern enough either.

Hold Option+R while rebooting and it loads online tools that still have RAID support. These are different than the disc tools available when booted into El Capitan.

Looks like you really went the long way around trying to solve this

Well, I never liked Apple. But yeah, for uptime, nothing beats Linux.

I think Windows is the easiest for most purposes, and a Windows PC is generally cheaper than a Mac alternative. It's easiest to get support for Windows... you can't throw a rock without hitting a tech guy that knows how to configure Windows.

Ubuntu is pretty good if you want an easy Linux distribution. Probably the most consumer-friendly version of Linux out there. My Mom used it for a couple of years when we didn't have a Windows license.

The truth is, it really doesn't matter how easy it is for a less tech-savvy end-user to mess with configuring... they're probably going to stick to surfing the web and writing e-mails all the time without ever leaving the GUI. If they need anything more complicated, they'll call you. There's pretty much no way to make a system idiot-proof enough that you'll never be called to handle configuration issues.

I bought a 2012 i5 2.5 Ghz Mac mini, in my opinion the last of the decent Mac's and one of the most affordable (for a Mac) Apple desktop devices on the second hand market today.

I upgraded the device with 16GB of ram and added a 500GB SSD to the existing 500GB HDD to make a fusion drive. For the money I paid for the device it's fantastic, I'm running OS X El Capitan and run a number of VM's under Parallels - Which is downright seamless. The older Mac Mini's are actually a very capable machine and are more upgradeable than you assume them to be.

Ocellaris said:

Hold Option+R while rebooting and it loads online tools that still have RAID support. These are different than the disc tools available when booted into El Capitan.

Looks like you really went the long way around trying to solve this

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Option+R or Command+Option+R, which Apple support told me didn't work either and all I got was a question mark. Thanks though. However, even by holding down those keys I only get what came with the Machine anyway, so I don't think I could get back to El Capitan even if it did work. By the way Mountain Lion came with the machine.

athenian200 said:

Well, I never liked Apple. But yeah, for uptime, nothing beats Linux.

I think Windows is the easiest for most purposes, and a Windows PC is generally cheaper than a Mac alternative. It's easiest to get support for Windows... you can't throw a rock without hitting a tech guy that knows how to configure Windows.

Ubuntu is pretty good if you want an easy Linux distribution. Probably the most consumer-friendly version of Linux out there. My Mom used it for a couple of years when we didn't have a Windows license.

The truth is, it really doesn't matter how easy it is for a less tech-savvy end-user to mess with configuring... they're probably going to stick to surfing the web and writing e-mails all the time without ever leaving the GUI. If they need anything more complicated, they'll call you. There's pretty much no way to make a system idiot-proof enough that you'll never be called to handle configuration issues.

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I agree that Windows maybe the easiest for most purposes and a Windows PC is generally cheaper than a Mac sorta. I wouldn't say it's easiest to get support for them though because unless you go on to tech net half or more of the solutions out there are crap or malicious and getting a solution from Microsoft may not be free. Plus you pay for the operating system, so if support isn't free microsoft makes even more of a fortune off you. Balmer said it himself that microsoft has made many millionaires and rightfully so maybe, but can't we get a break somewhere without being nickled and dimes to death by them. WIth everything moving to monthly subscription including Office we never get a break anymore trying to keep up with technology.

Yes there is not idiot proof software, but apple made it easiest and safest for my parents to use by allowing me to use RAID for redundancy and fault taulerance, time machine for backups, and VMware fusion for Windows, since Windows can't dual boot with Mac OS X when using RAID. Thing is they had a Windows XP machine prior to this and it was ancient considering it originally was a Celeron 700 machine revamped to a Asus TUSL-L with a Pentium III Tualatin and maxed out as much as possible. I looked at Dell, HP, and everything else, but didn't like anything else I was seeing at the time. Now I don't like anything I'm seeing especially Dell and Apple because Dell no longer sells even a mini tower Precision, so I can get Linux with it and Apple change the Mac Pro to a trash can design with proprietary everything internals except some of the ports.

Microsoft is forcing everyone to upgrade before July 29th 2016 to help them avoid paying the monthly subscription, but their OS takes over the computer for the most part and won't let the user resize that partition, so they can multi-boot if they desire. I don't like Microsoft in your face we're the only OS you need or exist approach either because every manufacturer forces you to use it, since it comes preinstalled on almost every machine. You almost don't even get a choice either because even Best Buy won't help you if you install Linux on a computer bought from them and if you do then you pretty much void your warranty from what I'm seen. Microsoft wants to be the only Operating System, but Windows is one of the worst Operating Systems even if it is the easiest because it's so easy to corrupt and write malicious code or any code for it and anyone who knows Visual Basic and how to write malicious code should know this. I don't care if Windows is the most popular or easiest to use it has it's flaws and plenty of them even if they have fixed or tried to fix some of them. People just don't want to learn something else because Microsoft has a hold on them and they don't realize how much of an anchor Windows is, but if they do Microsoft and everything else that's stand in your way makes it hard to break free.

The problem with most linux distro's is that not everything works or works the way you think it does. Also, it is possible that most of the problem with Linux is that the creator's never finish what they start especially for the GUI, which is why some people if not most say the GUI is terrible for most Linux distro's. This is especially true for Disks on Ubuntu or any other distro that uses it because it refuses to format a freaking disk when attempted.

As for Mac I think I've already said everything that needs to be said about them in the op if not here too.

I tried PC-BSD last night and didn't like not having Google Chrome for flash media because Chromium kept crashing, but it felt very secure and stable otherwise. However, I don't think it's ready for my parents unless someone can tell me how I can give my dad IE on it, so he can access Ford Employee site. Mozilla was no where to be found after installing if I were to use that as an alternative too. Opera locked up on me, but didn't crash the OS though.

My Dad uses a computer to access the Ford website, check email, and surf the web if not more. My Mom uses a computer to check email, surf the web, and get on facebook if not more. Then theirs the occasional other siblings that either live there or stop by do about the same or file weekly or monthly unemployment claims or file social security forms when necessary. My oldest sister want to facetime with her kids out of state too, so Apple made this the easiest and her computer can't support beyond Lion. Therefore her Mid 2006 or 2007 or 2008 Mac Pro will be useless by this situation if it completely fails too. My Dad needs Internet Explorer to access the Ford Employee site too because Ford doesn't support other browsers for it, so even if I gave him Windows 10 he still couldn't access it because 10 doesn't have IE. If I gave my dad a Mac he needs wine or wineskin to use IE natively, but can't use beyond IE8 or I have to give him a Windows 7, 8, or 8.1 Virtual Machine. If I give him a Linux machine he needs wine or playonlinux or both to use IE nativley and the same situation as Mac applies unless I give him a VM with Windows 7, 8, or 8.1. I could be really silly too though and put a Windows 10 VM on a Linux machine and put a Hyper-V VM inside the Windows 10 VM with Windows 7, 8, or 8.1 if possible just like I did Window 7, which had a Virtual PC machine via XP-Mode inside the Windows 7 VM on their Mac Pro too and just make sure I have enough physical memory to do so.

BulletDust said:

I bought a 2012 i5 2.5 Ghz Mac mini, in my opinion the last of the decent Mac's and one of the most affordable (for a Mac) Apple desktop devices on the second hand market today.

I upgraded the device with 16GB of ram and added a 500GB SSD to the existing 500GB HDD to make a fusion drive. For the money I paid for the device it's fantastic, I'm running OS X El Capitan and run a number of VM's under Parallels - Which is downright seamless. The older Mac Mini's are actually a very capable machine and are more upgradeable than you assume them to be.

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I don't like Parallels because it costs more than VMware Fusion and if I'm not mistaken it doesn't support Linux if I need it to. I don't think a 500GB hard drive would work for my parents either because they have a 1 TB HD and a 250 GB Windows 7 Ultimate VM. They already have 16 GB of RAM and may need more, so I don't think a Mac would work if it Maxes out at 16 GB either. I'm to happy about having to use an external optical drives with new Macs either. I'd probably have the same problem I'm having with our older Mid 2012 Mac Pro as I would with an older Mac Mini too. Thanks anyway though because it's not your fault.

athenian200 said:

Well, I never liked Apple. But yeah, for uptime, nothing beats Linux.

I think Windows is the easiest for most purposes, and a Windows PC is generally cheaper than a Mac alternative. It's easiest to get support for Windows... you can't throw a rock without hitting a tech guy that knows how to configure Windows.

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You mean that THINKS he knows how to configure Windows. Most of them really don't. Also you're vulnerable to almost any thinkable exploit and attack known to man when using Windows. A very poor choice for a daily driver.

scharfshutze009 said:

My Dad uses a computer to access the Ford website, check email, and surf the web if not more. My Mom uses a computer to check email, surf the web, and get on facebook if not more. Then theirs the occasional other siblings that either live there or stop by do about the same or file weekly or monthly unemployment claims or file social security forms when necessary. My oldest sister want to facetime with her kids out of state too, so Apple made this the easiest and her computer can't support beyond Lion. Therefore her Mid 2006 or 2007 or 2008 Mac Pro will be useless by this situation if it completely fails too. My Dad needs Internet Explorer to access the Ford Employee site too because Ford doesn't support other browsers for it, so even if I gave him Windows 10 he still couldn't access it because 10 doesn't have IE. If I gave my dad a Mac he needs wine or wineskin to use IE natively, but can't use beyond IE8 or I have to give him a Windows 7, 8, or 8.1 Virtual Machine. If I give him a Linux machine he needs wine or playonlinux or both to use IE nativley and the same situation as Mac applies unless I give him a VM with Windows 7, 8, or 8.1. I could be really silly too though and put a Windows 10 VM on a Linux machine and put a Hyper-V VM inside the Windows 10 VM with Windows 7, 8, or 8.1 if possible just like I did Window 7, which had a Virtual PC machine via XP-Mode inside the Windows 7 VM on their Mac Pro too and just make sure I have enough physical memory to do so.

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You're wrong on so many accounts. Your parents can do 100% of their activities easily with Xubuntu. I converted my parents and parents in law to linux years ago with no problems. Older versions of IE are easily supported through wine. Win10 does have IE it's just not the default browser. Only the facetime is going to cause a problem.

Not to mention that you could simply just ditch the raid on the mac which gives very little benefit for your parents anyway. Time machine will have constant backups available, having raid just complicates things.

scharfshutze009 said:

I don't like Parallels because it costs more than VMware Fusion and if I'm not mistaken it doesn't support Linux if I need it to. I don't think a 500GB hard drive would work for my parents either because they have a 1 TB HD and a 250 GB Windows 7 Ultimate VM. They already have 16 GB of RAM and may need more, so I don't think a Mac would work if it Maxes out at 16 GB either. I'm to happy about having to use an external optical drives with new Macs either. I'd probably have the same problem I'm having with our older Mid 2012 Mac Pro as I would with an older Mac Mini too. Thanks anyway though because it's not your fault.

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The last time I bought a licence of Parallels for a client I think it cost about $70.00 US, I don't think that's an unreasonable fee by any stretch and I'm fairly certain, although don't quote me here, that it's cheaper than VMware - Not to mention that I run VMware Workstation 12 on my Linux machine, and while it is very good, it's not quite as seamless as Parallels.

As you can see from this screenshot, Parallels not only supports Linux, but it even downloads and installs it for you at the click of an icon. Not only that, but on a 16GB Mac Mini Ubuntu runs beautifully, you wouldn't even know you're running a VM...



I'm not too sure what your parents do with this Mac Pro, but I fail to understand why on earth they would need even 16GB of ram let alone more than 16GB of ram? I could be classed as a power user, I have two rigs here running 16GB of ram, an Ubuntu Mate 16.04 rig running a Xeon 5675 and 16GB of ram that runs various virtual machines (I set them up in separate virtual workspaces and switch between OS's using two buttons on my mouse) and my Mac Mini which also runs various virtual machines - And even I don't touch the sides of 16GB of ram. I also fail to see why they need in excess of 1TB of storage and the requirement for raid? Although I'm sure you have your reasons for claiming so...

Furthermore, my mother left her Macbook on the roof of the car while on a holiday and as expected lost the thing. I built her an Ubuntu based PC and she has no issues using it - Linux isn't that complicated for most.

BulletDust said:

The last time I bought a licence of Parallels for a client I think it cost about $70.00 US, I don't think that's an unreasonable fee by any stretch and I'm fairly certain, although don't quote me here, that it's cheaper than VMware - Not to mention that I run VMware Workstation 12 on my Linux machine, and while it is very good, it's not quite as seamless as Parallels.

As you can see from this screenshot, Parallels not only supports Linux, but it even downloads and installs it for you at the click of an icon. Not only that, but on a 16GB Mac Mini Ubuntu runs beautifully, you wouldn't even know you're running a VM...

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My issue with Parallels is that they milk you every time you make another free OS upgrade to the OSX. Kinda irritating to pay nothing for an OS but several hundred for Parallels.

I like Parallels, I just don't like the milking.

B00nie said:

My issue with Parallels is that they milk you every time you make another free OS upgrade to the OSX. Kinda irritating to pay nothing for an OS but several hundred for Parallels.

I like Parallels, I just don't like the milking.

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This I totally agree with, it's bullshit.

As stated, the last time I bought Parallels was for a client and it was because I had to upgrade his Mac to OS X El Capitan in order to upgrade to the latest version of iTunes in order to be able to connect his iPhone 6 to his iMac. It's a vicious circle and one of the reasons I love Linux.

I also can't help but notice that you always have to pay for software on the Apple platform, there's trials of software but nothing is free - Take a look at WPS Office, free under Linux, free under Windows, costs $$ under OS X. While there's no way you can specifically blame Apple, it's downright annoying and just increases piracy.

For what it's worth, I'm replying to this post on my Mac Mini running Ubuntu 14.04 LTS under Parallels as a VM. The screenshot doesn't do it justice, looks glorious on this HiDPI IPS monitor:

B00nie said:

You're wrong on so many accounts. Your parents can do 100% of their activities easily with Xubuntu. I converted my parents and parents in law to linux years ago with no problems. Older versions of IE are easily supported through wine. Win10 does have IE it's just not the default browser. Only the facetime is going to cause a problem.

Not to mention that you could simply just ditch the raid on the mac which gives very little benefit for your parents anyway. Time machine will have constant backups available, having raid just complicates things.

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Thanks where do I find Xubuntu anyway because I've been having trouble finding it, since Ubuntu seemed to stop supporting it. Yes I know older versions of IE can easily be supported on Linux through wine, but what about newer versions than IE8 and what about being able to downloading and run sdx files from Dreamspark. If facetime is going to cause problems what do you recommend doing to resolve it.

I opted for RAID on the Mac, so that I could later allow the drives to act as one while using redundant RAID levels, such as 10 or 5 and I don't know why apple had to ditch support for it because it worked fine. Also their RAID is the easiest to setup anyway, so it didn't complicate this to much except when installing or when a drive failed or the battery died. They had RAID in their old Windows XP machine anyway and it worked fine, so I don't see the need to eliminate it. I wanted to minimize down time anyway, so I gave them RAID for that reason too. If I give them an Xbuntu machine, what will replace time machine because backups is horrible in Ubuntu 14.4.3 or earlier if not just 14.4.3 because it doen't backup everything like it should, so it fails to restore the system properly to due to this if not for some other reason. Also Ubuntu doesn't even upgrade very well, so say I do get Xbubuntu and put it on a machine for them are you saying it will upgrade properly without failing.

BulletDust said:

The last time I bought a licence of Parallels for a client I think it cost about $70.00 US, I don't think that's an unreasonable fee by any stretch and I'm fairly certain, although don't quote me here, that it's cheaper than VMware - Not to mention that I run VMware Workstation 12 on my Linux machine, and while it is very good, it's not quite as seamless as Parallels.

As you can see from this screenshot, Parallels not only supports Linux, but it even downloads and installs it for you at the click of an icon. Not only that, but on a 16GB Mac Mini Ubuntu runs beautifully, you wouldn't even know you're running a VM...

I'm not too sure what your parents do with this Mac Pro, but I fail to understand why on earth they would need even 16GB of ram let alone more than 16GB of ram? I could be classed as a power user, I have two rigs here running 16GB of ram, an Ubuntu Mate 16.04 rig running a Xeon 5675 and 16GB of ram that runs various virtual machines (I set them up in separate virtual workspaces and switch between OS's using two buttons on my mouse) and my Mac Mini which also runs various virtual machines - And even I don't touch the sides of 16GB of ram. I also fail to see why they need in excess of 1TB of storage and the requirement for raid? Although I'm sure you have your reasons for claiming so...

Furthermore, my mother left her Macbook on the roof of the car while on a holiday and as expected lost the thing. I built her an Ubuntu based PC and she has no issues using it - Linux isn't that complicated for most.

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Well as B00nie stated Parellels milks you everytime there is an upgrade for the OS and I already have a VMware for almost everything anyway. The only thing I don't Like about VMware is that you have to have Fusion for Mac and it's not free for Mac either. Parallels isn't free for anything. VMware is not that complicated to run even if it isn't as seemless as Parallels and I don't agree that it's cheaper either.

As for why they need 16 GB of RAM on their Mac it's because they still insist on using Windows, they all use it leaving multiple programs running and don't close them, they all keep themselves logged in and hog memory, and Mac is stupid when it comes to sharing programs, since I did as VMware and Apple said by putting the VM in the share folder as well as other programs, but it doesn't share them or at least not the VM. Also, the minimum recommended to Window 7 64-bit is 2GB of RAM, their VM kept crashing with only 2 or 4, so I upped it to 8 GB, and I want to make sure there is enough for the host OS, so it doesn't crash because Mac OS X can crash or slow down tremendously with low memory availablity. I know because I started with 6 GB on my Mac Pro and theirs. Hopefully I'll never need 64 GB or 128 GB either for it because I found out it can support it by using SiSoft Sandra in Windows on my Mac Pro. However, now even if I ever would need 64 GB or 128 GB anytime in the future I'll never get there with these machines because their useless in the event that they completely fail with existing installation, since I can't get El Capitan reinstalled when trying to redo them.

As for why they need a 1 TB HD it's because it was the smallest drive that was available with the Mac Pro when I bought it and their using a 250 GB Virtual Hard Drive for the VM that is almost half full if not more as well as they they have not migrated completely away from using the Windows VM or Windows in general. My sister insists she has to have Microsoft Office too and it pisses me off because she won't even try to use LibreOffice instead, since I can't afford Microsoft Office and deal with their stupid registration process as well as their bullcrap subscription process now.

scharfshutze009 said:

Thanks where do I find Xubuntu anyway because I've been having trouble finding it,

Click to expand...

Get Xubuntu « Xubuntu

Yes I know older versions of IE can easily be supported on Linux through wine, but what about newer versions than IE8

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Pretty sure Wine supports IE9 now. But for IE10 or 11, I think you'll need to run Windows in a virtual machine on top of Linux. I think VirtualBox has a seamless mode that makes the applications look like they're running on the Linux desktop.

and what about being able to downloading and run sdx files from Dreamspark. If facetime is going to cause problems what do you recommend doing to resolve it.

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Dreamspark might also have to go into the VM, since that's on Microsoft's stuff. And as far as replacing FaceTime, I think your best bet for a Linux native replacement would be Empathy. Otherwise, you could also use Skype on the VM. There is a Linux version of Skype, also, but it's poorly supported nowadays.

scharfshutze009 said:

Well as B00nie stated Parellels milks you everytime there is an upgrade for the OS and I already have a VMware for almost everything anyway. The only thing I don't Like about VMware is that you have to have Fusion for Mac and it's not free for Mac either. Parallels isn't free for anything. VMware is not that complicated to run even if it isn't as seemless as Parallels and I don't agree that it's cheaper either.

As for why they need 16 GB of RAM on their Mac it's because they still insist on using Windows, they all use it leaving multiple programs running and don't close them, they all keep themselves logged in and hog memory, and Mac is stupid when it comes to sharing programs, since I did as VMware and Apple said by putting the VM in the share folder as well as other programs, but it doesn't share them or at least not the VM. Also, the minimum recommended to Window 7 64-bit is 2GB of RAM, their VM kept crashing with only 2 or 4, so I upped it to 8 GB, and I want to make sure there is enough for the host OS, so it doesn't crash because Mac OS X can crash or slow down tremendously with low memory availablity. I know because I started with 6 GB on my Mac Pro and theirs. Hopefully I'll never need 64 GB or 128 GB either for it because I found out it can support it by using SiSoft Sandra in Windows on my Mac Pro. However, now even if I ever would need 64 GB or 128 GB anytime in the future I'll never get there with these machines because their useless in the event that they completely fail with existing installation, since I can't get El Capitan reinstalled when trying to redo them.

As for why they need a 1 TB HD it's because it was the smallest drive that was available with the Mac Pro when I bought it and their using a 250 GB Virtual Hard Drive for the VM that is almost half full if not more as well as they they have not migrated completely away from using the Windows VM or Windows in general. My sister insists she has to have Microsoft Office too and it pisses me off because she won't even try to use LibreOffice instead, since I can't afford Microsoft Office and deal with their stupid registration process as well as their bullcrap subscription process now.

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In AU$ the price difference between Parallels and VMware Fusion is ~$4.00, if you aren't happy with the licencing model of Parallels use VMware.

In relation to the excessive amounts of ram you believe is necessary to run OS X let alone a VM, I can assure you that you're wrong. As stated, I run VM's on my Mac with 16GB of ram (which is a huge amount of ram by the way) and allocating 4GB to my Windows 10 VM the machine not only runs fine under both OS X and Windows, but I'm left with ~7GB of ram in reserve on the host OS according to the system monitor. You're vastly overstating your memory requirements - But if that's what you believe you need than go right ahead, however that's $$ that could go towards something more useful, like MS Office.

Personally, I'd be dual booting OS X and Windows if they insist on using Windows rather than run Windows as a VM, especially if your so concerned about memory requirements.

As for your issues with OS X El Capitan, I'm a little confused as to why you can't simply go into recovery mode, set up the array, partition and install OS X? I do it all the time on a number of Apple machines and I've never had an issue. Hell, I set up an unofficial fusion drive using recovery mode and the process was remarkably painless. There's nothing wrong with OS X, I quite simply believe that you just don't know what you're doing and when people offer advice you're literally like "er, thanks, but no"?!

Not nitpicking, just offering advice.

BulletDust said:

In AU$ the price difference between Parallels and VMware Fusion is ~$4.00, if you aren't happy with the licencing model of Parallels use VMware.

In relation to the excessive amounts of ram you believe is necessary to run OS X let alone a VM, I can assure you that you're wrong. As stated, I run VM's on my Mac with 16GB of ram (which is a huge amount of ram by the way) and allocating 4GB to my Windows 10 VM the machine not only runs fine under both OS X and Windows, but I'm left with ~7GB of ram in reserve on the host OS according to the system monitor. You're vastly overstating your memory requirements - But if that's what you believe you need than go right ahead, however that's $$ that could go towards something more useful, like MS Office.

Personally, I'd be dual booting OS X and Windows if they insist on using Windows rather than run Windows as a VM, especially if your so concerned about memory requirements.

As for your issues with OS X El Capitan, I'm a little confused as to why you can't simply go into recovery mode, set up the array, partition and install OS X? I do it all the time on a number of Apple machines and I've never had an issue. Hell, I set up an unofficial fusion drive using recovery mode and the process was remarkably painless. There's nothing wrong with OS X, I quite simply believe that you just don't know what you're doing and when people offer advice you're literally like "er, thanks, but no"?!

Not nitpicking, just offering advice.

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I can't dual boot with RAID because Windows doesn't support Apple RAID card and Apple won't support RAID cards that will support Windows unless their Zero channel, which I'm not even sure if they are zero channel if they'll work either because I haven't found any that claim they'll work with Mac.

I know what I'm doing too and I'm telling you the recovery USB flash drives with not work no matter, which version of OSX I use because they won't boot all the way and just freeze. I used every normal method available GUI with Recovery Assistant and Command line to create the recovery drives too, but non of the will boot no matter if I use the front or back ports. I'm worried about it too because my parents Mac was having issues loading El Capitan from the working hard drives weeks earlier.

scharfshutze009 said:

I can't dual boot with RAID because Windows doesn't support Apple RAID card and Apple won't support RAID cards that will support Windows unless their Zero channel, which I'm not even sure if they are zero channel if they'll work either because I haven't found any that claim they'll work with Mac.

I know what I'm doing too and I'm telling you the recovery USB flash drives with not work no matter, which version of OSX I use because they won't boot all the way and just freeze. I used every normal method available GUI with Recovery Assistant and Command line to create the recovery drives too, but non of the will boot no matter if I use the front or back ports. I'm worried about it too because my parents Mac was having issues loading El Capitan from the working hard drives weeks earlier.

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Get rid of raid, the benefits are going to little to none when you can just use Time Machine to backup the machine anyway. Personally I'd be dual booting using one drive for Windows and one drive for OS X and forgetting raid altogether.

If I were you I would set up a KVM virtualization host for the parents so they can use a Windows virtual machine if they really can't stop using Windows. You can set up scheduled snapshots for the virtual machines and have a cron job for backing your linux settings and files to an external location periodically.

Since your parents are not doing anything mission critical that would suffer from losing a few seconds or even few hours of history, scheduled backups are more than enough.

I went through the path of having to constantly fix and clean my parents computers of the malware and virus infections they got (mainly due to my mother being literally on every spam chain-letter list on the planet). One day I stated to them that if they get one more infection I'm moving them to linux. That day came. My mother was completely furious to me and fought back kicking and screaming. It took me two visits to a) show her everything still worked the same despite being a bit different looking and b) configure her websites, install flash and pipelight so she could watch DRM protected tv shows and finally, get their printer scanner working. The biweekly calls to come to fix stuff ended like magic and we were both happy.

Funnily enough a bit later (year or two) she bought a brand new Win8 laptop that came preconfigured with antivirus from the shop. It took literally 2 weeks and she calls me to come to fix it. To my surprise she said 'I don't mind if you put linux on this too'. So I did.

B00nie said:

If I were you I would set up a KVM virtualization host for the parents so they can use a Windows virtual machine if they really can't stop using Windows. You can set up scheduled snapshots for the virtual machines and have a cron job for backing your linux settings and files to an external location periodically.

Since your parents are not doing anything mission critical that would suffer from losing a few seconds or even few hours of history, scheduled backups are more than enough.

I went through the path of having to constantly fix and clean my parents computers of the malware and virus infections they got (mainly due to my mother being literally on every spam chain-letter list on the planet). One day I stated to them that if they get one more infection I'm moving them to linux. That day came. My mother was completely furious to me and fought back kicking and screaming. It took me two visits to a) show her everything still worked the same despite being a bit different looking and b) configure her websites, install flash and pipelight so she could watch DRM protected tv shows and finally, get their printer scanner working. The biweekly calls to come to fix stuff ended like magic and we were both happy.

Funnily enough a bit later (year or two) she bought a brand new Win8 laptop that came preconfigured with antivirus from the shop. It took literally 2 weeks and she calls me to come to fix it. To my surprise she said 'I don't mind if you put linux on this too'. So I did.

Click to expand...

Provided the KVM kernel supports the Apple raid card? I've never run KVM on a Mac so I can't comment.

BulletDust said:

Provided the KVM kernel supports the Apple raid card? I've never run KVM on a Mac so I can't comment.

Click to expand...

Obviously he should use the mac in a standard configuration which it's best used for and build a linux box for special needs.

Oh and to the OP: do note that El Capitan is not a production OS it's a public beta. So you should not complain about missing raid features if you upgrade to a beta version.

B00nie said:

Obviously he should use the mac in a standard configuration which it's best used for and build a linux box for special needs.

Oh and to the OP: do note that El Capitan is not a production OS it's a public beta. So you should not complain about missing raid features if you upgrade to a beta version.

Click to expand...

option + command + R on startup and you go into recovery mode where there is most defiantly options to configure a raid setup, even under El Capitan, my best advice is to ensure you have an Ethernet cable plugged into the machine....OP I don't get it, how can this be so hard?

BulletDust said:

option + command + R on startup and you go into recovery mode where there is most defiantly options to configure a raid setup, even under El Capitan, my best advice is to ensure you have an Ethernet cable plugged into the machine....OP I don't get it, how can this be so hard?

Click to expand...

Internet recovery doesn't work and neither does booting from a recovery flash drive ok. It just doesn't work and I don't know why because the keyboard, mouse and UPS work even though they are connected to usb, so it doesn't make sense. Even if you right about El Capitan Having Raid Setup I can't get to that part because the recovery flash drive won't boot and I held the option key too, so it got the the firmware password and partially load the recovery drive, but locked up and you apparently can't help me fix this.

You can talk all day about disabling or not using RAID, but that does solve my problem with not being able to boot from the recovery usb either.

I could setup a KVM visualization host, but that might complicate thing more too and my mom needs to use the Mac side to print her coupons because the coupon printer won't let her do it from the VM. If I do this though how is it going to solve my problem with not being able to upgrade there machine to the 2 TB SSHD or not being able to reinstall from the El Capitan usb recovery drive considering they could probably go a little bit longer with the hard drive upgrades if not longer.

B00nie said:

Oh and to the OP: do note that El Capitan is not a production OS it's a public beta. So you should not complain about missing raid features if you upgrade to a beta version.

Click to expand...

El Capitan was released to manufacturing last September and has since had 5 revisions. They're already working on 10.12(Fuji?) and will likely have it ready for public beta this July.

scharfshutze009 said:

Internet recovery doesn't work and neither does booting from a recovery flash drive ok. It just doesn't work and I don't know why because the keyboard, mouse and UPS work even though they are connected to usb, so it doesn't make sense. Even if you right about El Capitan Having Raid Setup I can't get to that part because the recovery flash drive won't boot and I held the option key too, so it got the the firmware password and partially load the recovery drive, but locked up and you apparently can't help me fix this.

You can talk all day about disabling or not using RAID, but that does solve my problem with not being able to boot from the recovery usb either.

I could setup a KVM visualization host, but that might complicate thing more too and my mom needs to use the Mac side to print her coupons because the coupon printer won't let her do it from the VM. If I do this though how is it going to solve my problem with not being able to upgrade there machine to the 2 TB SSHD or not being able to reinstall from the El Capitan usb recovery drive considering they could probably go a little bit longer with the hard drive upgrades if not longer.

Click to expand...

Are you running WiFi or have you got an Ethernet cable plugged into the machine? Recovery is downloaded off the internet, there is no reason why this wouldn't work. El Captian recovery mode defiantly has raid support, I know, I checked as a result of this thread and booted into recovery just fine - All it took was 15 mins for the machine to download the recovery image.

However, if the machine cannot fine a hard drive (most likely as you have a non functioning raid array) than you have to boot off a bootable USB stick and use the recovery partition off that otherwise a question mark will appear on the screen and the machine will not boot. Which brings us full circle, like your other thread, it's obvious your USB stick is simply not setup correctly and is therefore not bootable. Restore the Mac to it's original spec and I'll show you a stupidly easy way to make a bootable USB stick using El Capitan - However it a process that can only be done on a Mac.

As for me 'apparently' not being able to help you fix this, I offer advice and you always come up with a rebuttal as to why you can't do it - In another post you're completely unwilling to test if a flash drive is bootable or not as you think it's going to instantly format your partitions with no intervention whatsoever. I'm happy to help, but you have to be willing to actually participate.

BulletDust said:

Are you running WiFi or have you got an Ethernet cable plugged into the machine? Recovery is downloaded off the internet, there is no reason why this wouldn't work. El Captian recovery mode defiantly has raid support, I know, I checked as a result of this thread and booted into recovery just fine - All it took was 15 mins for the machine to download the recovery image.

However, if the machine cannot fine a hard drive (most likely as you have a non functioning raid array) than you have to boot off a bootable USB stick and use the recovery partition off that otherwise a question mark will appear on the screen and the machine will not boot. Which brings us full circle, like your other thread, it's obvious your USB stick is simply not setup correctly and is therefore not bootable. Restore the Mac to it's original spec and I'll show you a stupidly easy way to make a bootable USB stick using El Capitan - However it a process that can only be done on a Mac.

As for me 'apparently' not being able to help you fix this, I offer advice and you always come up with a rebuttal as to why you can't do it - In another post you're completely unwilling to test if a flash drive is bootable or not as you think it's going to instantly format your partitions with no intervention whatsoever. I'm happy to help, but you have to be willing to actually participate.

Click to expand...

It's connected by ethernet not wifi, so I don't know why internet recovery won't work and I pressed command+option+R too.

I don't know if the reason it won't boot off recovery usb flash is because it can't find the hard drives either and I had to resort to using the snow leopard installation DVD to redo the RAID.

Here are the commands I tried to make the recovery usb flash in command line for each release from Mavericks to El Capitan (Mind you of course I replaced /Volumes/MyVolume with the proper volume name for the path by using the df -h command output:

Example for El Capitan:

sudo /Applications/Install\ OS\ X\ El\ Capitan.app/Contents/Resources/createinstallmedia --volume /Volumes/MyVolume --applicationpath /Applications/Install\ OS\ X\ El\ Capitan.app

Example for Yosemite:

sudo /Applications/Install\ OS\ X\ Yosemite.app/Contents/Resources/createinstallmedia --volume /Volumes/MyVolume --applicationpath /Applications/Install\ OS\ X\ Yosemite.app

Example for Mavericks:

sudo /Applications/Install\ OS\ X\ Mavericks.app/Contents/Resources/createinstallmedia --volume /Volumes/MyVolume --applicationpath /Applications/Install\ OS\ X\ Mavericks.app

The above commands come directly from here:

Create a bootable installer for OS X - Apple Support

As for why the recovery assistant created drive wouldn't work I don't know, but I inserted the USB flash drive when it said and it said it was created successfully, but it wouldn't boot from the drive.

How can you help me fix this though because I'd like to know? I'm not onsite to test if the drive is bootable again and I spent three days trying to boot from the drive last weekend, but they wouldn't boot. If you want a screenshot I can't give you one right at the moment because I'm not onsite. I know I have to delete the partitions for the recovery assistant, but I don't think I had to do it when using command line.

One more thing why would Recovery Assistant Create an El Capitan Recovery drive instead of a Lion or Mountain Lion, so explain that?

I'm not making any of this up either and will gladly prove it. I'll have to take a picture of the screen where it freezes on the Mac Pro during booting the recovery flash drive. As for proving the Recovery Assistant creates an El Capitan recovery drive instead of Lion or Mountain Lion I'll have to take a screenshot of the finder window showing this or a picture of the boot menu on the Mac Pro showing 10.11.1.

Just out of curiosity, are you using a USB3 stick? If so, plug it in a USB2 port or use a USB2 stick. Sometimes installers don't like USB3.

scharfshutze009 said:

One more thing why would Recovery Assistant Create an El Capitan Recovery drive instead of a Lion or Mountain Lion, so explain that?

I'm not making any of this up either and will gladly prove it. I'll have to take a picture of the screen where it freezes on the Mac Pro during booting the recovery flash drive. As for proving the Recovery Assistant creates an El Capitan recovery drive instead of Lion or Mountain Lion I'll have to take a screenshot of the finder window showing this or a picture of the boot menu on the Mac Pro showing 10.11.1.

Click to expand...

I'm confused, isn't El Capitan the OS you want installed?


You do realize that you have to download El Capitan into your Applications folder first? And 'do not' click on it as the installer auto erases the moment it is started.

Recovery won't find any drives as you haven't configured the array, it should find the USB installer, if it does not you have done something wrong making the bootable installer.

Use this method, follow it to the letter, making sure to name the USB stick 'Untitled' - It's the way I do it and it works fine for me:

How to make a bootable OS X 10.11 El Capitan installer drive

B00nie said:

Just out of curiosity, are you using a USB3 stick? If so, plug it in a USB2 port or use a USB2 stick. Sometimes installers don't like USB3.

Click to expand...

No their USB 2.0 not 3.0, so I don't know what the problem is. I hope the computer doesn't have a short somewhere from something though because that might be what it is.

BulletDust said:

I'm confused, isn't El Capitan the OS you want installed?


You do realize that you have to download El Capitan into your Applications folder first? And 'do not' click on it as the installer auto erases the moment it is started.

Recovery won't find any drives as you haven't configured the array, it should find the USB installer, if it does not you have done something wrong making the bootable installer.

Use this method, follow it to the letter, making sure to name the USB stick 'Untitled' - It's the way I do it and it works fine for me:

How to make a bootable OS X 10.11 El Capitan installer drive

Click to expand...

Yes I realize El Capitan has downloaded into the Applications folder and that's the default download location as well as where it downloaded to. I had to close the installer with System Moniter because it auto ran once it finished downloading, but don't worry it didn't start the installation process and is still there. I didn't think El Capitan supported RAID because the recovery drive start the installer only at first and other sources said it didn't either by saying it ended with El Capitan, so whatever.

Ok so what are you saying the recovery won't find the drives as I haven't configured an array, which I did with Snow Leopard and even named the volume in RAID utility not disk utility because disk utility can't configure RAID partitions or volumes as well as many other things involving RAID. I don't know what you think I did wrong or why the volume name has to be utilited in the following either because I'm pretty sure it doesn't and I just recently successfully created a bootable usb flash drive for my nephew on my macbook pro before it crapped out, but whatever I'll try it your way even though apple doesn't indicate this is necessary:


sudo /Applications/Install\ OS\ X\ El\ Capitan.app/Contents/Resources/createinstallmedia --volume /Volumes/Untitled --applicationpath /Applications/Install\ OS\ X\ El\ Capitan.app --nointeraction

The volume name can be obtained from the output of the df -h command too and should work as well as be all you need instead renaming or delete your flash drive to make it name untitled by formatting or erasing, which shouldn't be necessary.

The volume name from the output of the df -h is at the end of the line for each partition and looks something like this:

/Volumes/flashdrivebrandname

Apple even says in the link I provided to do as follows:

"This is the basic syntax of the command. Replace volumepath with the path to your USB flash drive or other volume, and replace installerpath with the path to the Install OS X app. "

windows and samsung

finorb said:

windows and samsung

Click to expand...

What about them?

scharfshutze009 said:

Yes I realize El Capitan has downloaded into the Applications folder and that's the default download location as well as where it downloaded to. I had to close the installer with System Moniter because it auto ran once it finished downloading, but don't worry it didn't start the installation process and is still there. I didn't think El Capitan supported RAID because the recovery drive start the installer only at first and other sources said it didn't either by saying it ended with El Capitan, so whatever.

Ok so what are you saying the recovery won't find the drives as I haven't configured an array, which I did with Snow Leopard and even named the volume in RAID utility not disk utility because disk utility can't configure RAID partitions or volumes as well as many other things involving RAID. I don't know what you think I did wrong or why the volume name has to be utilited in the following either because I'm pretty sure it doesn't and I just recently successfully created a bootable usb flash drive for my nephew on my macbook pro before it crapped out, but whatever I'll try it your way even though apple doesn't indicate this is necessary:


sudo /Applications/Install\ OS\ X\ El\ Capitan.app/Contents/Resources/createinstallmedia --volume /Volumes/Untitled --applicationpath /Applications/Install\ OS\ X\ El\ Capitan.app --nointeraction

The volume name can be obtained from the output of the df -h command too and should work as well as be all you need instead renaming or delete your flash drive to make it name untitled by formatting or erasing, which shouldn't be necessary.

The volume name from the output of the df -h is at the end of the line for each partition and looks something like this:

/Volumes/flashdrivebrandname

Apple even says in the link I provided to do as follows:

"This is the basic syntax of the command. Replace volumepath with the path to your USB flash drive or other volume, and replace installerpath with the path to the Install OS X app. "

Click to expand...

Bear in mind that Apple's tutorial uses what is essentially the same command, the difference is that the command I linked uses a modified volume to make the tutorial easier for the end user - You used the Apple tutorial, it's obvious that it didn't work as your media is not bootable, if it was you wouldn't be getting a question mark when the system is looking for a recovery partition. What we need to do is step backwards, backtrack, start from the basics and attempt to work out just why your Mac is not booting off that USB stick - As there is no reason why it wouldn't.

I'm not even interested in analysing Apple's tutorial, I'm only interested in starting from the beginning and making everything as straightforward as possible while eliminating the possibility of error; And I know this tutorial works perfectly provided you follow the instructions to the letter.

As yet I'm not 100% certain that a software raid array can be configured using El Captian's recovery manager as I'm getting conflicting reports, but I know the option for raid is in there as I have inspected it first hand.

Give the tutorial a go, follow it carefully, and let me know how you go. If you have access to another Mac it may be handy to ensure the media is in fact bootable and there isn't some freakish issue with your Mac Pro.

If you're worried about loosing data, make a Time Machine backup before you go any further.

BulletDust said:

Bear in mind that Apple's tutorial uses what is essentially the same command, the difference is that the command I linked uses a modified volume to make the tutorial easier for the end user - You used the Apple tutorial, it's obvious that it didn't work as your media is not bootable, if it was you wouldn't be getting a question mark when the system is looking for a recovery partition. What we need to do is step backwards, backtrack, start from the basics and attempt to work out just why your Mac is not booting off that USB stick - As there is no reason why it wouldn't.

I'm not even interested in analysing Apple's tutorial, I'm only interested in starting from the beginning and making everything as straightforward as possible while eliminating the possibility of error; And I know this tutorial works perfectly provided you follow the instructions to the letter.

As yet I'm not 100% certain that a software raid array can be configured using El Captian's recovery manager as I'm getting conflicting reports, but I know the option for raid is in there as I have inspected it first hand.

Give the tutorial a go, follow it carefully, and let me know how you go. If you have access to another Mac it may be handy to ensure the media is in fact bootable and there isn't some freakish issue with your Mac Pro.

If you're worried about loosing data, make a Time Machine backup before you go any further.

Click to expand...

I'll give your method a try next time I'm at my parents, but I'm not getting a question mark when attempting to boot from the recovery usb. I'm getting the recovery usb to partially boot to the usb flash and then freeze, so I don't see what I'm doing wrong.

I always induce a backup in time machine before I attempt this because I want to make sure everything is current and as it last was before the change or when they last used the computer. To bad I can't say this about my Windows machine when using backup and restore or my Linux machine when using backups, but whatever. Therefore, Time machine is definitely one thing apple got right if nothing else.

scharfshutze009 said:

I'll give your method a try next time I'm at my parents, but I'm not getting a question mark when attempting to boot from the recovery usb. I'm getting the recovery usb to partially boot to the usb flash and then freeze, so I don't see what I'm doing wrong.

I always induce a backup in time machine before I attempt this because I want to make sure everything is current and as it last was before the change or when they last used the computer. To bad I can't say this about my Windows machine when using backup and restore or my Linux machine when using backups, but whatever. Therefore, Time machine is definitely one thing apple got right if nothing else.

Click to expand...

I would be redownloading the image again, it's entirely possible it corrupted when you shut it down using system monitor. If possible I'd be downloading it using a machine already running El Capitan so there's no chance of it trying to auto run.

Bear in mind that Apple's tutorial uses what is essentially the same command, the difference is that the command I linked uses a modified volume to make the tutorial easier for the end user - You used the Apple tutorial, it's obvious that it didn't work as your media is not bootable, if it was you wouldn't be getting a question mark when the system is looking for a recovery partition. What we need to do is step backwards, backtrack, start from the basics and attempt to work out just why your Mac is not booting off that USB stick - As there is no reason why it wouldn't.

I'm not even interested in analysing Apple's tutorial, I'm only interested in starting from the beginning and making everything as straightforward as possible while eliminating the possibility of error; And I know this tutorial works perfectly provided you follow the instructions to the letter.

As yet I'm not 100% certain that a software raid array can be configured using El Captian's recovery manager as I'm getting conflicting reports, but I know the option for raid is in there as I have inspected it first hand.

Give the tutorial a go, follow it carefully, and let me know how you go. If you have access to another Mac it may be handy to ensure the media is in fact bootable and there isn't some freakish issue with your Mac Pro.

If you're worried about loosing data, make a Time Machine backup before you go any further.

Click to expand...

scharfshutze009 said:

I'll give your method a try next time I'm at my parents, but I'm not getting a question mark when attempting to boot from the recovery usb. I'm getting the recovery usb to partially boot to the usb flash and then freeze, so I don't see what I'm doing wrong.

I always induce a backup in time machine before I attempt this because I want to make sure everything is current and as it last was before the change or when they last used the computer. To bad I can't say this about my Windows machine when using backup and restore or my Linux machine when using backups, but whatever. Therefore, Time machine is definitely one thing apple got right if nothing else.

Click to expand...

scharfshutze009 said:

I'll give your method a try next time I'm at my parents, but I'm not getting a question mark when attempting to boot from the recovery usb. I'm getting the recovery usb to partially boot to the usb flash and then freeze, so I don't see what I'm doing wrong.

What you want me to do shouldn't be necessary because I'm not getting a question mark? I'm getting a frozen system when it attempts to boot from the recovery drive, but whatever. Their was no error in the command execution either because it said operation successful or whatever, so I don't see what you think I'm doing wrong.

Click to expand...

Bear in mind that Apple's tutorial uses what is essentially the same command, the difference is that the command I linked uses a modified volume to make the tutorial easier for the end user - You used the Apple tutorial, it's obvious that it didn't work as your media is not bootable, if it was you wouldn't be getting a question mark when the system is looking for a recovery partition. What we need to do is step backwards, backtrack, start from the basics and attempt to work out just why your Mac is not booting off that USB stick - As there is no reason why it wouldn't.

I'm not even interested in analysing Apple's tutorial, I'm only interested in starting from the beginning and making everything as straightforward as possible while eliminating the possibility of error; And I know this tutorial works perfectly provided you follow the instructions to the letter.

As yet I'm not 100% certain that a software raid array can be configured using El Captian's recovery manager as I'm getting conflicting reports, but I know the option for raid is in there as I have inspected it first hand.

Give the tutorial a go, follow it carefully, and let me know how you go. If you have access to another Mac it may be handy to ensure the media is in fact bootable and there isn't some freakish issue with your Mac Pro.

If you're worried about loosing data, make a Time Machine backup before you go any further.

Click to expand...

scharfshutze009 said:

I'll give your method a try next time I'm at my parents, but I'm not getting a question mark when attempting to boot from the recovery usb. I'm getting the recovery usb to partially boot to the usb flash and then freeze, so I don't see what I'm doing wrong.

I always induce a backup in time machine before I attempt this because I want to make sure everything is current and as it last was before the change or when they last used the computer. To bad I can't say this about my Windows machine when using backup and restore or my Linux machine when using backups, but whatever. Therefore, Time machine is definitely one thing apple got right if nothing else.

Click to expand...

scharfshutze009 said:

I'll give your method a try next time I'm at my parents, but I'm not getting a question mark when attempting to boot from the recovery usb. I'm getting the recovery usb to partially boot to the usb flash and then freeze, so I don't see what I'm doing wrong.

What you want me to do shouldn't be necessary because I'm not getting a question mark? I'm getting a frozen system when it attempts to boot from the recovery drive, but whatever. Their was no error in the command execution either because it said operation successful or whatever, so I don't see what you think I'm doing wrong.

Click to expand...

Here is the command I'm using:

sudo /Applications/Install\ OS\ X\ El\ Capitan.app/Contents/Resources/createinstallmedia --volume /Volumes/Untitled --applicationpath /Applications/Install\ OS\ X\ El\ Capitan.app

or

sudo /Applications/Install\ OS\ X\ El\ Capitan.app/Contents/Resources/createinstallmedia --volume /Volumes/Corsair --applicationpath /Applications/Install\ OS\ X\ El\ Capitan.app

because it shouldn't matter and the output of the df -h before erasing the drive here:

/dev/disk2s2 7.2Gi 29Mi 7.1Gi 1% 7450 1871434 0% /Volumes/Install OS X El Capitan

and after erasing it for attempting another usb recovery drive creation:


/dev/disk2s2 7.2Gi 29Mi 7.1Gi 1% 7450 1871434 0% /Volumes/Corsair

This /Volumes/Untitled is what I replace with this /Volumes/Corsair or whatever the volume name is because it shouldn't matter as the as the actual volume name matches the volume name specificied in the command used to create the media.

Finally this is the output from running the media creation command as follows:

bash-3.2# sudo /Applications/Install\ OS\ X\ El\ Capitan.app/Contents/Resources/createinstallmedia --volume /Volumes/Corsair --applicationpath /Applications/Install\ OS\ X\ El\ Capitan.app

Ready to start.

To continue we need to erase the disk at /Volumes/Corsair.

If you wish to continue type then press return: y

Erasing Disk: 0%... 10%... 20%... 30%...100%...

Copying installer files to disk...

Copy complete.

Making disk bootable...

Copying boot files...

Copy complete.

Done.

bash-3.2#

It erases the flash drive from the looks of it anyway, so I probably didn't need to pre-erase it. Oh well though because I did, so now I'll get back to you on if recreating it worked.

Bear in mind that Apple's tutorial uses what is essentially the same command, the difference is that the command I linked uses a modified volume to make the tutorial easier for the end user - You used the Apple tutorial, it's obvious that it didn't work as your media is not bootable, if it was you wouldn't be getting a question mark when the system is looking for a recovery partition. What we need to do is step backwards, backtrack, start from the basics and attempt to work out just why your Mac is not booting off that USB stick - As there is no reason why it wouldn't.

I'm not even interested in analysing Apple's tutorial, I'm only interested in starting from the beginning and making everything as straightforward as possible while eliminating the possibility of error; And I know this tutorial works perfectly provided you follow the instructions to the letter.

As yet I'm not 100% certain that a software raid array can be configured using El Captian's recovery manager as I'm getting conflicting reports, but I know the option for raid is in there as I have inspected it first hand.

Give the tutorial a go, follow it carefully, and let me know how you go. If you have access to another Mac it may be handy to ensure the media is in fact bootable and there isn't some freakish issue with your Mac Pro.

If you're worried about loosing data, make a Time Machine backup before you go any further.

Click to expand...

scharfshutze009 said:

I'll give your method a try next time I'm at my parents, but I'm not getting a question mark when attempting to boot from the recovery usb. I'm getting the recovery usb to partially boot to the usb flash and then freeze, so I don't see what I'm doing wrong.

I always induce a backup in time machine before I attempt this because I want to make sure everything is current and as it last was before the change or when they last used the computer. To bad I can't say this about my Windows machine when using backup and restore or my Linux machine when using backups, but whatever. Therefore, Time machine is definitely one thing apple got right if nothing else.

Click to expand...

scharfshutze009 said:

I'll give your method a try next time I'm at my parents, but I'm not getting a question mark when attempting to boot from the recovery usb. I'm getting the recovery usb to partially boot to the usb flash and then freeze, so I don't see what I'm doing wrong.

What you want me to do shouldn't be necessary because I'm not getting a question mark? I'm getting a frozen system when it attempts to boot from the recovery drive, but whatever. Their was no error in the command execution either because it said operation successful or whatever, so I don't see what you think I'm doing wrong.

Click to expand...

Here is the command I'm using:

sudo /Applications/Install\ OS\ X\ El\ Capitan.app/Contents/Resources/createinstallmedia --volume /Volumes/Untitled --applicationpath /Applications/Install\ OS\ X\ El\ Capitan.app

or

sudo /Applications/Install\ OS\ X\ El\ Capitan.app/Contents/Resources/createinstallmedia --volume /Volumes/Corsair --applicationpath /Applications/Install\ OS\ X\ El\ Capitan.app

because it shouldn't matter and the output of the df -h before erasing the drive here:

/dev/disk2s2 7.2Gi 29Mi 7.1Gi 1% 7450 1871434 0% /Volumes/Install OS X El Capitan

and after erasing it for attempting another usb recovery drive creation:


/dev/disk2s2 7.2Gi 29Mi 7.1Gi 1% 7450 1871434 0% /Volumes/Corsair

This /Volumes/Untitled is what I replace with this /Volumes/Corsair or whatever the volume name is because it shouldn't matter as the as the actual volume name matches the volume name specificied in the command used to create the media.

Finally this is the output from running the media creation command as follows:

bash-3.2# sudo /Applications/Install\ OS\ X\ El\ Capitan.app/Contents/Resources/createinstallmedia --volume /Volumes/Corsair --applicationpath /Applications/Install\ OS\ X\ El\ Capitan.app

Ready to start.

To continue we need to erase the disk at /Volumes/Corsair.

If you wish to continue type then press return: y

Erasing Disk: 0%... 10%... 20%... 30%...100%...

Copying installer files to disk...

Copy complete.

Making disk bootable...

Copying boot files...

Copy complete.

Done.

bash-3.2#

It erases the flash drive from the looks of it anyway, so I probably didn't need to pre-erase it. Oh well though because I did, so now I'll get back to you on if recreating it worked.

Click to expand...

Here is a screenshot of the frozen system when attempting to boot to the recovery drive:



This is what happens when I attempt to boot the system from the recovery drive and still happened this time. Now what should I do because I haven't resolved this.

I tried the following:

bash-3.2# /Applications/Install\ OS\ X\ El\ Capitan.app/Contents/Resources/createinstallmedia

Usage: createinstallmedia --volume <path to volume to convert> --applicationpath <path to Install OS X El Capitan.app> [--force]



Arguments--volume, A path to a volume that can be unmounted and erased to create the install media.

--applicationpath, A path to copy of the OS installer application to create the bootable media from.

--nointeraction, Erase the disk pointed to by volume without prompting for confirmation.



Example: createinstallmedia --volume /Volumes/Untitled --applicationpath "/Applications/Install OS X El Capitan.app"

bash-3.2#

because Apple instructions for "Create a bootable installer for OS X" say the following:





Use the 'createinstallmedia' command in Terminal

1. Download the OS X installer from the Mac App Store. Quit the installer if it opens automatically after downloading. The installer will be in your Applications folder.
   
   
2. Mount your USB flash drive or other volume. You could also use a secondary internal partition.
   
   
3. Open the Terminal app, which is in the Utilities folder of your Applications folder.
   
   
4. Use the command in Terminal to create the bootable installer. Examples of this
   
   command are in the next section. For detailed usage instructions, make sure that the appropriate Install OS X app is in your Applications folder, then enter one of the following paths in Terminal:
   

Path for El Capitan:

Path for Yosemite:

Path for Mavericks:

Examples

This is the basic syntax of the command. Replace with the path to your USB flash drive or other volume, and replace with the path to the Install OS X app.

The following examples assume that the OS X installer is in your Applications folder and the name of your USB flash drive or other volume is MyVolume:

Example for El Capitan:



createinstallmedia






/Applications/Install\ OS\ X\ El\ Capitan.app/Contents/Resources/createinstallmedia






/Applications/Install\ OS\ X\ Yosemite.app/Contents/Resources/createinstallmedia






/Applications/Install\ OS\ X\ Mavericks.app/Contents/Resources/createinstallmedia






before this:






Examples

This is the basic syntax of the command. Replace with the path to your USB flash drive or other volume, and replace with the path to the Install OS X app.

The following examples assume that the OS X installer is in your Applications folder and the name of your USB flash drive or other volume is MyVolume:

Example for El Capitan:



createinstallmedia



/Applications/Install\ OS\ X\ El\ Capitan.app/Contents/Resources/createinstallmedia



/Applications/Install\ OS\ X\ Yosemite.app/Contents/Resources/createinstallmedia



/Applications/Install\ OS\ X\ Mavericks.app/Contents/Resources/createinstallmedia



installerpath



volumepath



createinstallmedia --volume volumepath --applicationpath installerpath




Create a bootable installer for OS X - Apple Support Page 1 of 3



llm


sta

tal



Create a bootable installer for OS X - Apple Support



5/15/16, 12:57 AM


edia --volu





Example for Yosemite:

llmedia --v

Example for Mavericks:

lmedia --vo

Last Modified: Mar 21, 2016






olume /Volumes/MyVolume --applicationpath /Applications/Install\ OS\ X\ Yosemite.app



lume /Volumes/MyVolume --applicationpath /Applications/Install\ OS\ X\ Mavericks.app




,but it doesn't matter because that doesn't help and I'm stuck with a frozen screen even if I successfully create the recovery drive.

Pull out all raid devices and see if it boots off the boot media.

The only instructional you need to use is the one I linked followed to the letter including the naming of the USB device. You follow that one because I know it works. Not interested in reading any other instructional including one provided by Apple themselves. None of your images are working.