It is unfortunate but I think this TPV panel might be plagued by burn in issues. I hate to admit it and I wish all those that have them the best of luck. Really hope those that don't exhibit issues don't develop it in the future. Mine took a few weeks before showing signs. For $800-1000, I'm expecting a few year lifespan, if not more, and I don't feel that is likely with this Philips. Sad face.
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Philips BDM4350UC 43 inch 4K IPS PWM-free monitor
- Thread starter MistaSparkul
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It is unfortunate but I think this TPV panel might be plagued by burn in issues. I hate to admit it and I wish all those that have them the best of luck. Really hope those that don't exhibit issues don't develop it in the future. Mine took a few weeks before showing signs. For $800-1000, I'm expecting a few year lifespan, if not more, and I don't feel that is likely with this Philips. Sad face.
That's the worst news possible. I can return the monitor within 2 weeks after delivery without any problems, but after 2 weeks Amzazon will only repair or send a new one.
So when there are no burn-ins at the beginning, but will develop after 2 weeks and this is a general issue with these monitors I am stuck with the Philips. I am considering to return it anyway even if it is great. Too much risk.
So when there are no burn-ins at the beginning, but will develop after 2 weeks and this is a general issue with these monitors I am stuck with the Philips. I am considering to return it anyway even if it is great. Too much risk.
Can you take a picture of what your burn-in looks like? Have you done any burn-in tests when you first got it, or was this the first time there was a persistent image on your screen?
mejobloggs_
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Ah, a few weeks. That's a bit scary. I thought it was something you could see straight away so you could return it immediately
Guess it's back to waiting for the next ~40" 4k, sigh
I did initial burn in tests and found nothing of note. I also used it extensively in the first week with no problems or signs of burn in. Not sure if I will be able to take pictures as I'm already in the process of boxing it up for shipping back and don't really feel like plugging it in, running more tests, taking pictures, and re-boxing. I have a final this week that I'm trying to study for.
The burn in was also not permanent as far as I can tell. It stuck that way as when I was rebooting and after the screen went though a few cycles it appeared to have disappeared. Problem with it is I will not be taking the chance it was any kind of "fluke" and will continue to go or fade away each time. The monitor is expensive, has shown this problem with others monitors and I only have so much time to return it before I am stuck with it. Not really worth the risk for me.
I was also looking at the 32" 4k monitors but have the same apprehensions about text size or dealing with scaling. What to do, what to do....
Lateralus
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32" is not very immersive after experiencing 40"+, IMO. If you don't game or watch movies, that's probably not as big of a deal. Also, many of the 32" 4K monitors seem to have their own issues, though perhaps not as severe or annoying as burn-in. Scaling is not an option for me. I didn't buy a 4K display to turn around and blow everything up so that I can read the text, thus partially defeating the purpose of such a high resolution. I'd much rather take my chances on one of the Korean monitors, pay more for the Dell, or wait to see what else is released in this category.
Hmm, that's not promising. That's why I bought it from Amazon though, because its hassle free returns. However, I like to return big ticket items only sparingly. I've read a number of stories of Amazon permanently banning accounts that return big ticket items too many times, including losing your entire digital library. I'd rather not have that happen as I have a large Kindle library. If I have to return this unit, I probably will just get a refund instead of a replacement.
The Dell 43" is only about $200 more (since I pay tax on Amazon, but not on ShopBLT), but it comes with a 3 yr warranty vs Philips' 1 yr:
Dell P4317Q 43in Ultra Hd 4k Multi Client Monitor
If the Philips doesn't pan out for me, I'll probably try the Dell next. I've had many Dell monitors in the past and never had issues with any of them.
I doubt Amazon would ban your account due to a malfunctioning or otherwise defective item, just doesn't make sense. If you are worried I would just do a chat or call them about it. Personally, I don't return things all that often but I have personally returned many big ticket items due to damage/defect/etc. with no problems. I do spend lots of money with them though. Maybe the other return stories of people being banned were people returning non-defect items as defects to save on return shipping? Hard to say.
The Dell 43" is MUCH more than $200 over this Philips. According to my math it is $1349.99-899.99=$450 (not including tax). I was able to find some discounts originally on the Dell but none of them work for me any longer either.
I'm on the edge of just throwing down some money on the ASUS PG348Q. Thinking about running 2 ultrawide monitors, one above and one below, for plenty of desktop real estate since I can't find any 4k monitors that please me. Maybe that will hold me over until ~40" 4k OLED ~100hz is available.
It's possible. I'm also a big spender at Amazon. But better safe than sorry.
You didn't click on the link I posted
ShopBLT is selling it for $1081, no tax. It's a reputable shop, so as long as it's an authorized Dell reseller (need to verify that), that's as a good of a place to buy as any. The way I see it, I was going to get a $60 extended warranty through SquareTrade for the Philips anyway, so that brings the price gap to $150. Fairly reasonable I think.Anyway, I'm surprised that Amazon is sending me the Philips via FedEx Overnight, so I'll be getting it tomorrow. Will give my impressions soon.
You didn't click on the link I posted
You are right, I didn't click the link! That is a good price for sure, but it also says "preorder" with estimated date of 6/8/2016 (not necessarily a problem).
I'm not able to find anywhere that can confirm or deny that ShopBLT is an authorized Dell reseller or if Dell will observe any warranty. That makes me worry and hesitate since the item also states all sales are final with no returns or refunds of any kind.
I may contact Dell in the morning to see if they would honor the warranty if I purchase this from ShopBLT.
It's about 3 weeks out, which is OK, as I'll probably take that long to evaluate the Philips.
From ShopBLT's FAQ page:
Q: What does "NO RETURNS OR EXCHANGES" mean?
A. Some manufacturers and suppliers require us to enforce a more restrictive return policy on their items. These restrictions (if any) are noted in the product's description and supersede our standard return policy. For example, if an item contains "(NO RETURNS OR EXCHANGES)" in the product's description, that means you cannot return the item to us, and we cannot replace it, for any reason. In other words, the sale of that item is final, and you must contact the manufacturer for any assistance with replacing or repairing the item.
Some items can only be returned if unopened. On others, we can only accept returns or ship replacements if defective. Some items can only be returned or replaced within a specific number of days. By carefully reading the item's description for such notations, you will know whether anything you wish to purchase is subject to a special return restriction.
It is important to note that none of these restrictions apply to the manufacturer assisting you or replacing your item under its warranty (if one is provided by that manufacturer.) In fact, most special return policies are the result of manufacturers wanting to work directly with you. Lastly, these additional restrictions if present, are not by our choice. We are simply following the rules as given to us by various manufacturers and suppliers.
It sounds like Dell wants you to go through them directly for warranty purposes. But do let me know what you find out from Dell.
As far as 32": 4K monitors are concerned I am only considering the newly released ASUS PA329Q which is getting good reviews (not many) so far. The problem is that I have not found any actual users having it to get real feedback. It is almost double price than the Philips but it is a professional monitor with hardware calibration capabilities (14bit internal LUT table) and wide gamut. I do not game (although the option is nice) so it would be used for desktop only.
Before the emergence of 40" or bigger monitors people were buying 32" sized units but text scaling is really what holds me back and I have been trying to emulate it playing with a laptop screen which is about the same PPI. Scaling is besides browsers and document reading is not an option for me. It creates problems and defeats the purpose of the increasing workspace which I need a lot!
The Dell would be a nice option but I still have seen no reviews or any user feedback either.
It is unfortunate the my 30" 2560X1600 monitor failed now since I believe that within a year or two there will be many more options in the market but I need a display now for work and the Asus above seems like the only option.
If I buy it I will at least have a professional display that can be used for accurate color proofing and will be usable for this purpose even when I buy a bigger display than this when some serious options become available.
BTW, My HP LP3065 lasted 10 years of heavy daily use.
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You could take a look at my burn-in and see what you think.
The result of a static image from the browser after 15 minutes. I just moved the browser a few inches up.
spine
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Well, seems clear to me now the reason this monitor is so cheap (it really is tbh) is because they're using a panel that has a hilarious quality variability, and all suffer from burn-in, with the weakest ones showing it sooner.
Yup, so another "The One" shot down.
And yet week in and week out we'll see more 23.9" 4K waste-of-everyone's-times get released by whatever Bozo company thinks people actually want a monitor of this pointless spec. The truth it that the word "4k" made a whole bunch of companies world-wide jump on the bandwagon early. Then it transpired that the mainstream audience are more than content with DVD quality, let alone Bluray, let alone 4K, and thus hardly any of these panels sold.
Understand that we still buying these pioneering panels from 5+ years ago, just re-packaged, because the inventory is stacked literally sky high...
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The Elusive One
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Just wanted to chime in here. I just received this monitor today and it is being returned tomorrow.
I noticed retention within 5-10 minutes from icons on my desktop and from various open windows.
I also had the same vertical green lines as Zuul did (in Fallout 4 and Elder Scrolls Online).
The vertical green lines where there in certain textures/colors no matter the resolution or settings on the screen.
Like many of the others that have had these problems i'm from Scandinavia.
I noticed retention within 5-10 minutes from icons on my desktop and from various open windows.
I also had the same vertical green lines as Zuul did (in Fallout 4 and Elder Scrolls Online).
The vertical green lines where there in certain textures/colors no matter the resolution or settings on the screen.
Like many of the others that have had these problems i'm from Scandinavia.
That's no good at all
I'm waiting for delivery right now.OK, quick update: Received my monitor, one dark stuck pixel near the very top right, very close to the bezel. It's unnoticeable unless I'm on a white background and I specifically look for it. Did a burn-in test using large black letters on white background - no residual image after 30 minutes. Will post more impressions later.
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Armenius
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Sounds like Lender's experience, so I would keep a sharp eye out for burn-in for the next couple of weeks if you're planning on keeping it at this point.
Spoke with Dell and they said as long as the item is "new" they will honor the 3 year warranty. Also told me they will honor the 1 dead/stuck/bright pixel panel guarantee.
I'm still a tad bit skeptical of how it will play out with pricing due to this clause:
"Pricing
While every effort has been made to ensure the accuracy of pricing displayed on our website, pricing is not guaranteed and submission of your order does not bind us to honor published pricing. Additionally, pricing for back ordered items is not guaranteed and is subject to change at any time. If pricing on your order is found to be incorrect or has changed, we will notify you by email and your order will be halted. Your credit card will not be charged and no funds will be accepted or collected. You will be under no obligation whatsoever to purchase the item at the current price. Pricing discrepancies on our site will be corrected the same business day they are discovered."
I did go ahead and place my order as the price is just too good. Lets hope it does arrive around 6/8 and I get the agreed upon price.
I'm sad to see the Philips is having so many problems as it is being sold at such a great price for a (theoretically) great product. Hope everyone that gets and keeps the Philips doesn't end up with any issues.
PS: Still really like the monitor, sans the burn in.
Unfortunately I have to agree. Make sure to continue testing this weekly while still in the return window. Due to the literature and the on screen warning, I doubt Philips will do much of anything about it if it begins to develop over any length of time (burn in not covered under warranty).
Again, good luck and enjoy the wonderful world of 4k!
For sure. I plan to make full use of my 30 day return period to test it. Will of course report back here with any findings.
Do post an update when you get your Dell!
illram
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Some of the image retention pics here look worse than my 2009 plasma. What the hell? Major fail.
Pretty disappointed about the bad QC on this model too; I just hope that the burn-in is not inherent to the panel and will be fixed within the next couple of months.
Has anybody checked out Samsung's new SUHD TV roster? They've got a 43" model sporting a 10bit panel, 4K/60/4:4:4 over Hdmi 2.0, input lag of 21ms (the Philips has 28ms according to the pcmonitors.info review) while in gaming mode (local dimming is disabled) and 38ms while in pc mode (source: Samsung UE55KS7500 HDR TV Review).
Samsung UE43KS7590U - Curved SUHD TV | SAMSUNG
Sadly the 43" model is not available for you guys in the US and there the models start at 50".
Has anybody checked out Samsung's new SUHD TV roster? They've got a 43" model sporting a 10bit panel, 4K/60/4:4:4 over Hdmi 2.0, input lag of 21ms (the Philips has 28ms according to the pcmonitors.info review) while in gaming mode (local dimming is disabled) and 38ms while in pc mode (source: Samsung UE55KS7500 HDR TV Review).
Samsung UE43KS7590U - Curved SUHD TV | SAMSUNG
Sadly the 43" model is not available for you guys in the US and there the models start at 50".
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The Samsung could be promising..HDR is major bonus for multimedia content. A downside compared to the Philips is that it is not going to be PWM free. Also too bad TV's still lack FreeSync.
The viewing angles will be worse since the KS series are all supposed to use VA panels without exception this time. (including the 43'' and 49'')
The viewing angles will be worse since the KS series are all supposed to use VA panels without exception this time. (including the 43'' and 49'')
Lateralus
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According to the main Samsung thread, the 43" and 49" KS7500 are supposed to use IPS panels...at least for the Euro models.
Yeah I believe this was the initial assumption because 43 and 49 are typical IPS sizes. But according to hristoslav2 they're all VA this time (table was updated yesterday)
Samsung телевизори 2016 - Страница 23
Sony seems to be the only ones to make TV's without PWM.
Although the new X930D is using PWM too now, albeit at a much higher frequency than Samsung.
Sony X930D Review (XBR55X930D, XBR65X930D)
Although the new X930D is using PWM too now, albeit at a much higher frequency than Samsung.
Sony X930D Review (XBR55X930D, XBR65X930D)
Lateralus
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Ahh gotcha - thanks.
Generally I think yes, although I think that some of Sony's 2015 sets were PWM free. Unfortunately it's also the case with some monitors as well, such as last year's Philips BDM4065UC. I can't remember the exact terminology but PWM was analyzed on the Samsungs and the higher end models used a form of PWM that wasn't as bad.
PWM can express differently even at the same frequency, there can be differences in duty cycle, phase, duration and whether the backlight is completely turned off or just dimmed. (rtings has waveform graphs for all their tested TV's under the Motion Blur section)
Found it, thanks!
If I understand the graph correctly, 50% brightness results in the backlight running at something slightly below 200Hz?
http://i.rtings.com/images/reviews/ks8000/ks8000-backlight-large.jpg
If I understand the graph correctly, 50% brightness results in the backlight running at something slightly below 200Hz?
http://i.rtings.com/images/reviews/ks8000/ks8000-backlight-large.jpg