So, be honest, does the resolution bother you?

OK, I bit the bullet and hesitantly bought Chronos for the Rift. I must say....blown away in 10 minutes. It is not a very interactive VR game, just a fixed third person camera. Typical adventure hack slash game. But the immersion is AWESOME. The first 5 minutes and I felt like I just crashed on the Iron Islands. The rain falling and the lightning striking felt so real....and surreal. I would say this is the highest production I've seen on VR to date, way beyond tech demo quality. The environments are so cool and convincing that I totally forgot about the Resolution. Any of you guys that have a Rift should definitely check out this game. It is an app that definitely moves the discussion from resolution to gameplay and content.
 
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When playing games with tools like VorpX, if looking up and down has no effect or is disabled then 90fps might not be needed.
I wonder if nearer 60fps would be realisable, that would allow higher quality options.
ie for racing games

My Vive is on its way so I'll be able to try things soon.
Not VorpX though.
Are there any conversion tools working on the Vive yet?
 
so after a couple days with the Vive, yes, the resolution still bothers me... BUT in certain games that work well, I don't notice it because I am too involved in the game... games like job simulator and the arcade shoot-em-up game in the lab are graphically very simple, but very enjoyable VR experience... they use large solid textures that work well on the crap resolution of the displays... games that try to be "high quality" graphics look terrible... some games I could not even tell what things that were far away were since objects only occupied a couple pixels
 
Had my Vive for about a day and so far I don't mind the resolution at all. Coming from a DK2, this is a HUGE upgrade. Now they just need to work on the lenses, IMO thats what needs more work but both of these things will be way better on the next gen if VR takes off (which I can't imagine why it wouldn't). My GF loves it and hated my DK2.
 
Got my Vive today, no previous VR experience. Resolution is OK but the SDE is pretty noticeable. I don't game above 1080p so maybe thats why it doesn't bug me like the [H]ardcore folks around here.
 
Oscar Meyer said:
OK, I bit the bullet and hesitantly bought Chronos for the Rift. I must say....blown away in 10 minutes. It is not a very interactive VR game, just a fixed third person camera. Typical adventure hack slash game. But the immersion is AWESOME. The first 5 minutes and I felt like I just crashed on the Iron Islands. The rain falling and the lightning striking felt so real....and surreal. I would say this is the highest production I've seen on VR to date, way beyond tech demo quality. The environments are so cool and convincing that I totally forgot about the Resolution. Any of you guys that have a Rift should definitely check out this game. It is an app that definitely moves the discussion from resolution to gameplay and content.
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Thank you for this...Ive been eyeing it for weeks. I'll probably pick it up Friday.
 
schlitzbull said:
Thank you for this...Ive been eyeing it for weeks. I'll probably pick it up Friday.
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I was so totally hooked once I started all the puzzles leading up to the Cyclops. It was refreshing to see a new way to present puzzles (no spoilers included). You will be grinning the whole time....
 
When I played with the DK1 way back when with Half Life 2, everything was honestly really, really grainy. That said, after an hour or so and getting sucked into the story due to feeling of being "in" the world, I forgot about the visual shortcomings. It was wonderful, and I can only imagine that as image fidelity increases, things will be more immersive.
 
finally got my Vive ,and yes the resolution and screen door effect are terrible. As soon as gen 2 comes out I am ditching this thing.
 
It's also not just the low resolution and SDE, it's that when you look even slightly off center things start to blur rapidly. So you basically have to point your head at whatever you are looking at/reading and keep your eyes fixed straight ahead. This is not natural. You use a combination of eye and head movement when you look at things in real life. Supposedly the Rift has a larger sweet spot. I wouldn't know though, as somehow my order that got completed with this first couple of minutes isn't shipping until late June? Horrible launch.
 
Vega said:
It's also not just the low resolution and SDE, it's that when you look even slightly off center things start to blur rapidly. So you basically have to point your head at whatever you are looking at/reading and keep your eyes fixed straight ahead. This is not natural. You use a combination of eye and head movement when you look at things in real life. Supposedly the Rift has a larger sweet spot. I wouldn't know though, as somehow my order that got completed with this first couple of minutes isn't shipping until late June? Horrible launch.
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yep same here, I actually canceled my Rift order as mine got delayed until June/July (I ordered with in first 15 mins)

I had a DK2 and the SDE and Resolution were just as shitty so curious if the CV1 Rift is any better. The Rift did have a better FOV though, which you are correct is absolutely horrible on the VIVE. You can tell these are obviously1st gen products. Tons of room for improvement
 
seems you'll need retinal projection (no lense to complicate things, much easier on the eyes) along with eye-tracking (to adjust for proper convergence which is impossible with fixed lenses)... Fove and Avegant Glyph provide these things separately, as an example, but I do wonder if/when the bigger players will go this route, or if they've said anything about it in the past (maybe there is some huge problem there I've not been made aware of)...
 
Youn said:
seems you'll need retinal projection (no lense to complicate things, much easier on the eyes) along with eye-tracking (to adjust for proper convergence which is impossible with fixed lenses)... Fove and Avegant Glyph provide these things separately, as an example, but I do wonder if/when the bigger players will go this route, or if they've said anything about it in the past (maybe there is some huge problem there I've not been made aware of)...
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From what I understand the issue with retinal projection is the lack of FOV, although it works really good for SDE there isn't as much FOV compared to a screen and lenses. I could be wrong and the last I read about it was about 6 months ago from the glyph. I know there are other companies making really wide FOV with much higher resolution such as STAR (i think thats the name, the people who made payday are making a headset). There is another company who is making a more virtual experience with much higher end gear than consumer grade stuff which is supposed to have a 180 degree FOV. For 1st gen consumer grade, I think its plenty awesome. The only time I notice anything is when I'm at a loading screen and there is nothing to immerse me in, hardly ever during a game am I thinking specs.
 
Got my Oculus today and the resolution and SDE and off-center blur and everything mentioned here are indeed pretty awful, but they're not dealbreakers IMO.

I picked up Project Cars and I'll probably grab Chronos too. Any other recommendations? Is The Climb good? EVE is good for about twenty minutes and Lucky's Tale is a load of rubbish.
 
Resolution isn't a deal breaker for me. Obviously we'd all prefer higher but for an emerging tech it's more than workable. I've got the Rift and as soon as I went through the little demo thing they do I knew I was in love. I especially loved the one where they have you high up on this platform surrounded by skyscrapers. You instinctively look down and sure enough it actually triggered my natural "oh crap, that's a long long drop" reflex. I love high places so this made me smile.

The 90 FPS though doesn't feel like 90FPS. Not sure what the deal there is, have to look into it more...Hopefully in future iterations they can up the FPS as super high fps + 3d makes for an amazing combo and really really boosts immersion. Screen door stuff wasn't dealbreaker either. I was really worried about that but it's not a big deal at all. My biggest issue seems to be that the headset somehow makes my nose itch, ha ha. I think that's just a me thing. Overall I'm sold on VR and can't wait to see what it brings. Rift is a great product too, lightweight and easy to setup.
 
Got my Vive today, once I get immersed in the game I don't even notice the resolution at all.

One thing I am having trouble with is getting the IPD set correctly. I did a quick measurement using a ruler and I think I am 65mm but I'm not sure. I don't wear glasses so I have never been to an optomitrist. Maybe I need to go get professionally measured?

Also, I can't seem to find the sweetspot for the headset, like where It doesn't look fuzzy.

Should the distance be set closest to my face also? Or do I need to adjust the IPD dial AND the distance using the grey rings? It should also sit higher up on the face right? Like ski goggles?
 
Sprayingmango said:
Also, I can't seem to find the sweetspot for the headset, like where It doesn't look fuzzy.

Should the distance be set closest to my face also? Or do I need to adjust the IPD dial AND the distance using the grey rings? It should also sit higher up on the face right? Like ski goggles?
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Personally, I prefer keeping the lenses as close to my face as possible (I don't need to wear my glasses with it) as it keeps the FOV much wider. I also found that using the smaller face foam works much better in finding the sweet spot.

With that said, adjust the HMD as far down your face as you can until the image is clear. If you wear it too far up, when you look up/down, it will shift and you'll always be seeing some blur. Once you have that adjustment set, then tighten the side straps until it's secure to your face. I've found that this method gives me a nearly perfectly focused image.

It seems that the vertical alignment is crucial to getting a good image.
 
Got Vive last night... it tops getting a voodoo1 and playing glquake for the first time. It's the future. Is resolution an issue? -- No. Never while playing games did I think resolution was a problem. When switching to desktop it looks like garbage, but in game resolution does not stand out as a limitation. Partially due to fact that games are designed with it in mind, but really... like the games in general, while awesome, just feel like they're scratching the surface. The potential is just so massive, and for now resolution is not limitation. I much more look forward to amazing new games than a 2nd gen headset w/4k per eye or something.
 
Ironically, I found the resolution of the display to be MUCH better than I was anticipating. I was pleasantly surprised
 
Just got my vive. Playing Elite...mostly great. Reading text is a chore. It's the biggest weakness, IMO, of an otherwise great experience.

Needs more pixels, that's for sure.
 
bexxxxxx said:
Got Vive last night... it tops getting a voodoo1 and playing glquake for the first time. It's the future. Is resolution an issue? -- No. Never while playing games did I think resolution was a problem. When switching to desktop it looks like garbage, but in game resolution does not stand out as a limitation. Partially due to fact that games are designed with it in mind, but really... like the games in general, while awesome, just feel like they're scratching the surface. The potential is just so massive, and for now resolution is not limitation. I much more look forward to amazing new games than a 2nd gen headset w/4k per eye or something.
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I totally agree! I've been buiding PCs an gaming for 20+ years and I have had so many "wow" moments with the Vive. More than I ever anticipated. I played in VR for close to 5 hours today and iit was just incredible.
 
I try not to think about it.
But when it comes to shooting sims like hotdogs horsshoes hand grenades, you'll really wish you had more res to work with.

As far as the games and demos out now, theyre a perfect fit for the resolution and tech right now.
I love the vive and look for new games to buy/test everyday when i wake up. I'm definately spending alot on steam, but you gotta pay to play.

Theres a hidden options screen for most games, like pressing esc while in game or something brings up general super sampling options to give you more "resolution" but of course you need a strong vid card and system.
 
Is this a good example of the screen door effect on the Rift/Vive? You'll need to view them full size.



I've got an unopened Rift that I'm 90% sure I'm going to return, and I'm looking for that last 10%. If your feeling adventurous, I'd entertain reasons to keep it.
 
I don't own a Rift but none of those shots would make me give it up.
 
Bladestorm said:
Is this a good example of the screen door effect on the Rift/Vive? You'll need to view them full size.



I've got an unopened Rift that I'm 90% sure I'm going to return, and I'm looking for that last 10%. If your feeling adventurous, I'd entertain reasons to keep it.
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Those are pretty accurate. You forget about it after a while in most games, but when you do see it it's very apparent.
 
Bladestorm said:
Is this a good example of the screen door effect on the Rift/Vive? You'll need to view them full size.



I've got an unopened Rift that I'm 90% sure I'm going to return, and I'm looking for that last 10%. If your feeling adventurous, I'd entertain reasons to keep it.
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I suggest you swing by a BB or someone rather local to see it first hand
 
Vega said:
For some reason how 2160x1200 looks so low resolution/blurry, I have my doubts that even 4K with Fresnel lenses will provide a really good immersion experience. I get a headache from the low res/blurriness.

Really, you are only "seeing" 1.3 mil pixels with these new VR devices, 1080x1200. Just way too low...
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Could the use of Fresnel lenses be part of the problem? I know comparing my old rear projection CRT to my front projection CRT, the front projector is so much sharper. Both sets are properly focused, but the rear projection CRT has those damn Fresnel lenses added into the equation...
 
I wonder if it's possible to manufacture a display with pixel density that is not uniform such that the pixel density is much higher at the point of central fixation so that the images that land on the fovea of your retina, where the density of your photoreceptors/cones are geatest, look clearer and lower pixel density in the periphery of the display correlating to your peripheral photoreceptors/rods of the retina where the visual acuity is not as critical. A setup like this would make it easier to achieve visually better VR without the ridiculous hardware power required to run games at 4K and beyond.
 
But, your eyes can and do move.

This is the problem with the Vive, it is only focused dead in the centre. Anything outside is blurred and differently blurred in each eye as they move.
Ruins the experience.
The Rift has a much larger focused area in the centre so while it suffers the same issue, it doesnt render it unusable.

If you were to have different resolution as things move around the display, your eye would track it and it would look crap.
And with each eye having a slightly different perspective, where an object is on the display would be different for each eye.
 
If you made the central 20 to 30 degrees around the center of fixation a higher pixel density, tracking would not be an issue. That would allow for significant eye movement without a huge acuity loss and your head movement would adapt quickly. It would only look like crap if you're holding an extreme gaze and looking for the drop in pixel density, and by "crap" it would only look as bad as the current central fixation of the current Vive and Rift. I don't have any real expertise on displays, but I do have quite a bit of expertise on the structure and function of eyes.
 
I didn't think it was a question of pixel density tech.

They already have high resolution screens like the Xperia Z5 which has a 3840x2160 screen (806ppi). Although that's an LCD screen, not an OLED.

As far as PC rendering power, you just need eye tracking in the headset and using foveated rendering. That is, rendering the part of the image that you eye is focused on at a higher resolution than the rest which is also an already a possible and working tech.
 
Eye tracking would not be complicated to add to a headset at all, that tech is very accurate and has been in use for a long time.
 
Yup - it's more of a cost thing. The first gen hardware is already a bit pricey. Once the tech progresses a bit more as well as economies of scale in manufacturing come into play to bring the overall cost down of an HMD, things like eye tracking and foveated rendering will start to appear. It will allow the perceived resolution to double without having to back it up with crazy amounts of GPU rendering horsepower.
 
SBSuperfly said:
Eye tracking would not be complicated to add to a headset at all, that tech is very accurate and has been in use for a long time.
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It is when latency has to be kept very low and with minimal change per frame.
Even at 90Hz, some people feel sick due to occasional glitches.

It would increase the minimum hardware requirement by quite a bit.
 
high res for the safe zone where your eyes can target, low res around the periphery where you cannot

might work, but maybe for simplicity they'll just do it all the same resolution...

another possible solution (and I'm no expert on this but would love to learn more) with retinal projection tied with eye-tracking there can be a sorta dynamic resolution where it always congregates around where your gaze is then falls off (get's blurrier) the farther it gets from that point... like foviated rendering but with the way the mirrors are reflecting the light back into your eyes... would be a software/rendering challenge as well, so maybe not worth the cost, but who knows...
 
I just got back from my Best Buy Rift demo. The low resolution is definitely noticeable and distracting. Granted the 6 minute demo wasn't much of a test, but the only thing that stood out was the Tyrannosaurus rex coming at me. That was cool. The rest was just ok at best. I was hoping this would confirm whether or not to keep my Rift, but it didn't really help with that. A racing sim added to the demo would have helped a great deal.
 
SirMaster said:
I didn't think it was a question of pixel density tech.
They already have high resolution screens like the Xperia Z5 which has a 3840x2160 screen (806ppi). Although that's an LCD screen, not an OLED.
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Just wonder if the Xperia Z5 Premium would fit into one of those VR enclosures where smartphone can be put? I have Glyph, picture is absolutely perfect but FOV is limited and there are some ergonomic issues with it. To my mind, the best for VR would be miniature OLED displays like the ones used in electronic camera viewfinders (EVF). High-end EVFs have fantastic picture quality, there is even a 4K one in Leica camera, and they can be made to any size/shape. Probably expensive though.
 
I have the gear vr, for use with my samsung s6 edge plus, it looks ok, but the screen door effect is visible.


I tried the oculus rift in a best buy recently, and I was SHOCKED at how much better the screen looked. They must have done something special with the arrangement of the pixels to minimize the screen door effect. Whatever it was, it needs to be replicated on other oled screens that might be put to use for VR, on top of resolution boosts.
 
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