Need Recommendations from Die-Hard Red Fans...

Which option should I go with?

  • Option A - Cheap out and run it until it catches fire. Not worth the upgrade cost.

    Votes: 3 18.8%

  • Option B - A newer board/add-in cards will get you what you need until Zen matures.

    Votes: 4 25.0%

  • Option C - Scale down and sell, and get Zen when it comes.

    Votes: 2 12.5%

  • Option D - Sell out! (With me, oh yeah!) Thunderbolt won't come to AMD any time soon.

    Votes: 7 43.8%
  • Total voters
    16
  • Poll closed .
L

Lothar the Lotharian

Gawd
Joined
Aug 31, 2004
Messages
674
Ok, here's my issue. I've got several 8-core Bulldozer and Vishara boxes up and running for video editing and rendering.

I even have an 8150 black w/ factory watercooler in the box. Most of them are based off of MSI-970A-G43 boards.

I'm debating in my head if it's finally time to give up the ghost and go intel, since it's doubtful that they'll have thunderbolt support, and that's the best in connectivity to video drives. Plus, I'd love to take advantage of a board with PCIe 3.0 M2 slots.

My choice right now is to either...

a) stick with what I've got and use some PCIe 2.0 based add-in cards to get an M2 drive going (which I haven't ruled out things like hp's turbo drive quad to get more space over speed) or even go to a storage server.

b) get a newer motherboard with a PCIe 2.0 M2 drive after zen comes out on the cheap, and deal with it from there

c) scale down hardware now, sell, and wait for zen and upgrade all at once, hoping for a decent motherboard solution.

d) sell out and *sigh* finally go intel.

I feel so dirty after holding out for so long, but the performance/connectivity gap is starting to become very real for me.

Let me know your thoughts.
 
I'd hang in there until October as see where Zen is. If the first rev is competitive, then you can make a good decision.

50% of people who predict the future (one way or another) are wrong. So the best bet is to wait. So you can be right :)
 
You could get an i3 skylake setup and hold for zen and then decide if get an zen cpu or upgrade to an i5
 
PontiacGTX said:
You could get an i3 skylake setup and hold for zen and then decide if get an zen cpu or upgrade to an i5
Click to expand...

Why? OP is rendering video. Any i3 would be a downgrade even with the better IPC.

I'd go with Option A personally. Just no point in upgrading unless you move to the Intel 6+ core chips, and that's a lot of money.
 
DeathFromBelow said:
Why? OP is rendering video. Any i3 would be a downgrade even with the better IPC.

I'd go with Option A personally. Just no point in upgrading unless you move to the Intel 6+ core chips, and that's a lot of money.
Click to expand...
Then I didnt see that part and then an i7 Haswell/Ivy Bridge/FX-83xx (if mobo can oc) and hold for zen
 
Thanks for all of the input. So far, you guys have given me a lot to think about.

Right now, I may try throwing a second video card into play or moving one over to a used i7 combo for the next six to eight months, then see how Zen pans out.

I'm hoping for Big Red's sake, it's a whopper of a launch.
 
Lothar the Lotharian said:
Thanks for all of the input. So far, you guys have given me a lot to think about.

Right now, I may try throwing a second video card into play or moving one over to a used i7 combo for the next six to eight months, then see how Zen pans out.

I'm hoping for Big Red's sake, it's a whopper of a launch.
Click to expand...

The is a bottleneck with 8 core FX Chips with dual GPU configurations depending on what you use - i think atleast 2 x 390s won't work to their full potential because of that bottleneck.
 
a3venom said:
The is a bottleneck with 8 core FX Chips with dual GPU configurations depending on what you use - i think atleast 2 x 390s won't work to their full potential because of that bottleneck.
Click to expand...
maybe would work better on DX12
 
Lothar the Lotharian said:
Thanks for all of the input. So far, you guys have given me a lot to think about.

Right now, I may try throwing a second video card into play or moving one over to a used i7 combo for the next six to eight months, then see how Zen pans out.

I'm hoping for Big Red's sake, it's a whopper of a launch.
Click to expand...

Krenum posted this video a couple of days ago. You can get the mobo for $80 and the processor for $40. There are more modern Xeon solutions also where the processors are around $90, but the motherboards are getting expensive. I think you would get good use out of a 8 core Xeon until whatever Intel (10 cores) and AMD (Zen) come out with their new consumer lines.

 
Last edited:
PontiacGTX said:
it is a fact that DX11 is the biggest limited factor on games with CPU bound scenarios it has been tested DX12 helps the CPU bound scenarios.
Ashes of the Singularity DirectX-12-Leistungsexplosion (Seite 5)
Hitman Benchmarks mit DirectX 12 (Seite 2)

depending on how the game is using the resources the CPU isnt an bottleneck anymore except it is an RTS game or other cpu bound game
Click to expand...

As far as I've seen it is turning out to be it is not using CPU more effectively, it is just using less CPU than before to do what it needs.
Like the multicore i7 or FX gains from DX 12 are not even close to the pentium / i3 gains in these games.
But i havent seen any dual GPU testing yet
 
a3venom said:
As far as I've seen it is turning out to be it is not using CPU more effectively, it is just using less CPU than before to do what it needs.
Like the multicore i7 or FX gains from DX 12 are not even close to the pentium / i3 gains in these games.
But i havent seen any dual GPU testing yet
Click to expand...
if should be using less CPU to be more effective if the game isnt using the extra cores for some tasks and the CPU load is higher the problem is the coding for the game and DX11 problems with ST
and the gains are higher on low end/slower part because they are supposed ot be CPU limited by those tasks which need more than 2c 4t/4c 4t

about dual gpu testing I asked to the review editor on hardforum and he wanst helpful at all.
 
Option A.
Wait for Zen (and possibly Intel's Kaby Lake) to emerge and then make an informed decision which platform is the best choice based on reviews with real-world usage results.

I've been itching to upgrade to Skylake, but I'm going to hold out until at least Zen hits resellers and figure out which route to take...so I give you the same advice I'm giving myself. :)
 
I have 4 amd gaming machines, i just read an article comparing i5-2500k against an i5-6600k and its pretty huge step. Mind you im running about the latest amd chip, 860k overclocked to 4.3ghz and it doesnt match a stock clock i5-2500k in about any benchmarks. at my work lenovo M91p are starting to be scrapped out. I took one home, bought a replacement motherboard ... got it up and running i5-2500 3.3ghz , put in a video card and it wont boot. Drats!

apparently lenovo lock the bios down so it wont boot with any video card better then a geforce 750ti or so i read. Thought i was going to have a sweet $24 i5 gaming pc...

Anyway, im waiting for Zen, but i voted D. AMD is killing us, not even updated motherboards to drool over and it still feels like zen wont be shipping for 5-6 months yet.
 
buttons said:
I have 4 amd gaming machines, i just read an article comparing i5-2500k against an i5-6600k and its pretty huge step. Mind you im running about the latest amd chip, 860k overclocked to 4.3ghz and it doesnt match a stock clock i5-2500k in about any benchmarks. at my work lenovo M91p are starting to be scrapped out. I took one home, bought a replacement motherboard ... got it up and running i5-2500 3.3ghz , put in a video card and it wont boot. Drats!

apparently lenovo lock the bios down so it wont boot with any video card better then a geforce 750ti or so i read. Thought i was going to have a sweet $24 i5 gaming pc...

Anyway, im waiting for Zen, but i voted D. AMD is killing us, not even updated motherboards to drool over and it still feels like zen wont be shipping for 5-6 months yet.
Click to expand...

You mean no updated AM3+ motherboards ? Because there are some Kyle used one in his DX11 VS DX12 review.
The AM4 stuff seems to be in June when Computex along with the new APU based on Excavator ....
 
DejaWiz said:
Option A.
Wait for Zen (and possibly Intel's Kaby Lake) to emerge and then make an informed decision which platform is the best choice based on reviews with real-world usage results.

I've been itching to upgrade to Skylake, but I'm going to hold out until at least Zen hits resellers and figure out which route to take...so I give you the same advice I'm giving myself. :)
Click to expand...
Kaby lake is skylake,there is no need to wait.
 
drescherjm said:
I assume there will be at least some IPC improvement with Kaby Lake.
Click to expand...
It is a refresh of skylake,intel already stated how they are going to release their cpus,like they did with lga1150 cpus

New architecture,refresh(higher frequency,barely improved TIM,slighly different thermal interface,new mobo chipset) and node shrink
 
I'd go with Option A personally. Just no point in upgrading unless you move to the Intel 6+ core chips, and that's a lot of money.
Click to expand...

I expect if AMD is competitive in performance it will also be closer in price. Meaning if they can match Intel's 6 core / 12 threaded performance with the 8 core / 16 threaded Zen it should be a $350 CPU. If it is not competitive then it will certainly be cheaper.
 
DeathFromBelow said:
Why? OP is rendering video. Any i3 would be a downgrade even with the better IPC.
Click to expand...

I agree with this. Video rendering is one of the few areas where AMD FX chips actually perform well. i3's would be a step down from a video rendering perspective. A quad core i5 with HT might not though.

OP: Here are some things I'm trying to figure out.

1.) Your primary reason for upgrading now would be because you want m.2 and thunderbolt?

1a.) Is there something wrong with thunderbolt PCIe adapters? (legitimate question, I have never used thunderbolt for anything, have no thunderbolt devices or ports, so I really don't have a clue. To me thunderbolt is mostly some Apple thing I've never used, much like firewire.)

1b.) PCIe /M.2 SSD's havent really lived up to their hype. While you can get some good peak sequential rates under some circumstances, overall system responsiveness and load times are mostly unaffected compared to a good SATA SSD. If your motivation is to be able to transfer/copy large rendered video files fast, they might help, for anything else, they really won't do much for you compared to a good SATA SSD.

2.) There is a lot of hype surrounding Zen right now. Personally I "sold out" and went to Intel back when Bulldozer launched and was uninteresting, but I am still holding on to my x79 Sandy-E system until the Zen launch, when I plan on reassessing whats out there, and if I want to upgrade. It's tough to know if Zen will deliver on any of the hype. Unlike the hype leading up to the Bulldozer launch, a lot of the claims (like 40% improved IPC, for instance) is coming straight from official AMD channels, rather than from "sources" and AMD employees posting on forums on their own time. This makes me put a little bit more faith in this 40% figure.

What does that mean though?

I don't know what your video rendering looks like, but let's assume for a moment that it performs similarly to Cinebench 11.5:

A 6700k at max turbo of 4.2ghz scores 2.07 right now in the single core test. That's ~0.49/ghz.

A 7870k at max turbo of 4.1 scores 1.06 right now in the single core test. That's ~0.26/ghz.

So lets add the much talked about 40% to that figure. We get a predicted Zen performance of ~0.36/ghz. This is still only ~73.5% of the score of a Skylake core per ghz. Maybe AMD will be able to ramp up the clocks a little bit? Their current APU's are held back in clock because they have to use a GPU friendly manufacturing process. On pure FX chips this won't be an issue and maybe they'll be able to squeeze more clock speed out of them? If we assume this, and say maybe they can get a 4.8ghz turbo out of an FX based Zen, where does that leave us? Well, at 4.8Ghz, the predicted Zen score would be 1.74. This is a huge improvement, but it is still only 84% as fast as a current skylake.

That being said, a 1.74 score, ties Zen with a Haswell i7-4770K which is a respectable leap forward.

In other words, these calculations demonstrate what we have been guessing all along (or at least were, before the hype machine took over), that Zen will allow AMD to catch up to where Intel was a generation or two ago core for core. Being competitive with Haswell is actually better than I was expecting. I was thinking more along the lines of Ivy Bridge.

With your type of workloads (video rendering) you should scale very well with core count too, and if history is any judge AMD will release many core chips. Zen might just be the platform of choice for video rendering / encoding type workloads if they add many cores. (though I wouldn't count on consumer 32 core chips as have been rumored)

Now, this analysis is to be taken with TRUCKLOAD of salt as it is based on many assumptions and both educated and unedcuated guesses. Also, there is a lot of criticism of Cinebench as a benchmark, as it is believed to strongly favor Intel chips and not be a fair comparison. I used it because it is one of the few benchmarks that I can find results from that isolate single core results (as throwing in extra cores muddies the waters), and because you spoke of doing video rendering. The intent - however - is to put things in perspective, of what we can expect from Zen IF they live up to the official marketing slides from AMD.


Anyway, long story short, you've been the good soldier and held out this long. Is another 6 months really going to kill you? What I would do is wait for Zen, do whatever cheap patch jobs with expansion cards and adapters in the short term, and read Zen reviews on launch day. If Zen winds up being another huge bulldozer-like disappointment, that would be the time to get a Skylake-E chip (if launched) and not look back. If Zen however meets or exceeds expectations, it would probably be great for your workload.


This is what I'm doing. I'm keeping my still plenty fast, but aging (and missing modern features) i7-3930k, waiting for the Zen launch and then seeing what to do. I'll probably get a Zen system even if it is not fully competitive with Intel's latest offerings because it will be great to support the underdog and go AMD again. I just don't want to go Zen if it is actually slower than my 5 year old 3930k. I'd be OK with a side grade or an minor upgrade, but I can't do a downgrade.

This also presumes that Zen comes in a version with many PCIe lanes. I'm not giving up my 40 PCIe lanes Sandy-E gives me, but thats just me. Expansion is a huge deal to me.
 
PontiacGTX said:
Kaby lake is skylake,there is no need to wait.
Click to expand...

So then, my Ivy Bridge is Sandy Bridge since it fits in the same socket, despite a die shrink, added features, and architectural improvements resulting in a bit of an IPC bump? Got it k thx.

Kaby Lake is going to follow along the same lines of Ivy Bridge: a refresh with some added features and an IPC bump, but without a die shrink unlike SB -> IB.



Kaby Lake - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
DejaWiz said:
So then, my Ivy Bridge is Sandy Bridge since it fits in the same socket, despite a die shrink, added features, and architectural improvements resulting in a bit of an IPC bump? Got it k thx.

Kaby Lake is going to follow along the same lines of Ivy Bridge: a refresh with some added features and an IPC bump, but without a die shrink unlike SB -> IB.



Kaby Lake - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Click to expand...
I was referring to 1150 socket not 1155
 
PontiacGTX said:
Devils cannyons is the refresh and is exactly what intel will do
Click to expand...

You initially said "Kaby Lake is Skylake no need to wait", to which I replied that the Kaby Lake refresh will bring new features, then said you were talking about 1150. I was merely pointing out that Skylake and Kaby Lake are 1151, not 1150.

And yes, DC is the refresh to Haswell on 1151, just as IB was the refresh (with die shrink) to SB.
 
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