Hutzy XS — Ultra Compact Gaming Case (<4L)

Awesome Hahutzy that you've decided to keep the original design. Any updates on the prototype that you were supposed to receive from the manufacturer? By the way, whenever this case is completed, how much do you think it would cost, or are you unable to make that assessment right now? Thanks again.
 
I am in talks with manufacturers about making the prototype. I have not put the order through yet.
I currently do not have a projected price point.
It will largely depend on which manufacturer I go with, hence why this stage of the process is going slowly and meticulously.
 
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ZombiPL said:
How will he get this MOQ numbers when he at start will say, that Hutzy XS is <4L but...you can't do this, you can't do that, oh... and you also can't do this, that and that..... ?? If this case won't be at least in some fields universal, then Hahutzy might have problems with selling this case. Of course some people will order it, but the price (for example) from $150 will rise to $300. It will shrink his market for sure.
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I wouldn't make claims like that. The market for highly limited but small cases is very new, we're just testing the waters. As long as there aren't any polls about the situation, you have no idea what features people actually want from your case and what limitations they are going to be fine with.
 
Just wondering about the storage options, just 1 SSD and maybe a m.2 ssd? Also, if you do get enough orders, maybe have the 500w FSP platinum flex-atx psu as an optional buy (not pre-installed in case)?
 
Yea storage will be

ONE M.2 SSD
ONE up to 9.5mm 2.5" drive

I will look into the 500W, but it's been difficult to get ahold of a sample.
 
At iFreilicht, was it you that got in contact with FSP and worked closely with them with the platinum 500w flex-atx psu for your own SFF project? I remember reading a post that they would only give out a bulk of 300 orders or so from their own site.
 
CknSalad said:
At iFreilicht, was it you that got in contact with FSP and worked closely with them with the platinum 500w flex-atx psu for your own SFF project? I remember reading a post that they would only give out a bulk of 300 orders or so from their own site.
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Yes that was me, but I wouldn't say I was working closely with them, just testing the waters. It is indeed true that their MOQ is 300, but if you do order that amount of PSUs from them, they will also make modifications to it if you want that, which includes colour of the enclosure and type of the connectors, which is pretty much mandatory as the regular connector configuration on those PSUs never includes the PEG connectors for GPUs.

I was in talks with Sliger Designs as well, they seemed to be interested to add the 500W unit to their catalogue and even produce cases using it, but so far, nothing came of it apart from a few forum posts on SFFn.

As Hahutzy said, they're not really into giving out samples if they're not convinced you'll be able to buy from them in the future. There still is the 400W unit, though, and that one doesn't have any kind of MOQ if you get it from amazon ;)
 
iFreilicht said:
Yes that was me, but I wouldn't say I was working closely with them, just testing the waters. It is indeed true that their MOQ is 300, but if you do order that amount of PSUs from them, they will also make modifications to it if you want that, which includes colour of the enclosure and type of the connectors, which is pretty much mandatory as the regular connector configuration on those PSUs never includes the PEG connectors for GPUs.

I was in talks with Sliger Designs as well, they seemed to be interested to add the 500W unit to their catalogue and even produce cases using it, but so far, nothing came of it apart from a few forum posts on SFFn.

As Hahutzy said, they're not really into giving out samples if they're not convinced you'll be able to buy from them in the future. There still is the 400W unit, though, and that one doesn't have any kind of MOQ if you get it from amazon ;)
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KSliger at SFF forum seemed to be able to convince FSP of a smaller run:

I'm having issues getting the 500W FlexATX into a project at a stable volume.

I was able to get 1 piece sample and can get a one time 25 piece preproduction, and 100 piece MOQ one time - then after that I have to hit 300 MOQ. I'll keep this thread updated if I manage to pull anything off.
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Two Portable SFF Gaming Cases - under 7L and under 5L (w/ 500W PSU)


Now there are a few FlexATX case designs around we should be able to hit 100 MOQ.
 
Hermit2001 said:
KSliger at SFF forum seemed to be able to convince FSP of a smaller run:

Two Portable SFF Gaming Cases - under 7L and under 5L (w/ 500W PSU)

Now there are a few FlexATX case designs around we should be able to hit 100 MOQ.
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Sliger Designs has a MUCH better reputation than all of us combined, though. They make lots of customer projects, some of which include the power supply and sell a multitude of cases already.
FSP knows that Sliger will be able to afford 25 PSUs or 100 at a much higher price than usual and see the chance of them buying many more units in the future, so there's a good base for negotiation.

It should also be noted that this thread was in fact not updated ever again, so it seems like KSliger didn't "manage to pull anything off".

We could try to do something like this if we lined multiple FlexATX case projects that all needed the same PSU, and I think we could even manage it, but it seems to early in the projects for negotiations in that direction.
 
Ok I made quite a major revision, and I will be making update posts separately over the next few days for different ideas behind each change.

Revision point #1: Dimensions and Power Options

The volume is still 3.99L
Length got shortened (max GPU length 172mm, ~6.75"), height increased and width increased slightly.

The major reason was to add flexibility to PSU options for the case.
Namely, I plan on pushing for FSP or AP to create top covers for FlexATX that have 80mm fan mounting points. Or maybe even doing with any metal fabricator, as it is just a piece of bent sheet metal after all.
With that, there will be 3 different power options to choose from:



(Quick side note, I added mounting holes for HDPlex, so the case is ready for that option)
With this height increase in the case to allow this option, there's now a Venn Diagram situation for power:

XQV7XOjl.png


Overall, I am personally satisfied with offering a case with the flexibility of choosing which advantages you want in your power solution.

.
 
Hahutzy,

I have a question, since you decreased the length, will that have any impact on what type of mini itx gpus can fit in the case? Would a r9 nano or a gtx 970 still fit? I don't know these video cards' length measurements.
 
TheDrifter363 said:
Hahutzy,

I have a question, since you decreased the length, will that have any impact on what type of mini itx gpus can fit in the case? Would a r9 nano or a gtx 970 still fit? I don't know these video cards' length measurements.
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No, there will be no impact on cards that fit. The current longest ITX card that I know of is the Gigabyte 970 Mini, which is 6.7"

The reason why the change should continue to make no impact on card selection is this:

There's no incentive for manufacturers to make cards only slightly longer than 170mm

When a manufacturer makes a card less than 170mm, they can boast about it being a "Mini-ITX card; it is shorter than the motherboard itself!"

But the moment the card passes 170mm, there's no marketing buzz anymore, and they tend to go to lengths around 190-200mm for twin fans.

(Sidenote: R9 Nano is 152mm + around 13mm of space for the PCIE 8-pin connector)
 
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What is good with the choice FlexATX PSUs? I like the design though, it is the real stuff.
 
R Do said:
What is good with the choice FlexATX PSUs? I like the design though, it is the real stuff.
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The user can have more power hungry builds under the Flex-ATX psus as the largest one is 500w. The power-brick solution is already iffy starting around 300 or so watts (your mileage will vary). Another thing is that the Flex-ATX psu will be the cheaper option as the HD-Plex 250w is $85 and $60-100 for the power brick.
 
R Do said:
What is good with the choice FlexATX PSUs? I like the design though, it is the real stuff.
Click to expand...

CknSalad said:
The user can have more power hungry builds under the Flex-ATX psus as the largest one is 500w. The power-brick solution is already iffy starting around 300 or so watts (your mileage will vary). Another thing is that the Flex-ATX psu will be the cheaper option as the HD-Plex 250w is $85 and $60-100 for the power brick.
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Additionally, FlexATX PSUs have a much higher peak current, so sudden load spikes won't be a problem. A few people that wanted to use the R9 Nano in the NFC S4 Mini had problems with that.
 
Goddamn Hahutzy! Nice. Now I have to work on another super niche case design.
 
Well, the work and rendering took longer than expected, but here's a continuation for the changes that were made.

Revision point #2: Design Aesthetics

3 major changes in aesthetic decision:
  • The body will be uni-color, most likely only available in black
  • The center strip is no longer aluminum, replaced with vinyl carbon fiber strip
  • The vent holes are all staggered pattern
Here's a look at the base model of the old and the new:
(Note: the remaining holes along center are there for a handle, which I am deciding to add in or not)



Here's how it looks with the vinyl carbon fiber strip:



The decision to replace the aluminum highlight piece with a vinyl carbon fiber strip is because these come in different colors, so the idea is that the strip would color coordinate with the LED on the power button:
(Actual colors are being decided on, and the vinyl carbon fiber strip may not look exactly like that.)




I have made some progress with a manufacturer.

So the plan is:
  • Wait for the handle I ordered to get here
  • Try it on my plastic prototype which I'm printing right now
  • Decide if I want the handle and its associated holes
  • Contact manufacturer to order a few prototypes
  • Decide on colors to offer for the vinyl + power button (or maybe people don't want the strip at all?)

Feel free to give me feedback on the handle and the vinyl strip + led color matching ideas. I'm all ears.
 
Why do we need a handle for such a tiny case? It totally ruins the design and make it look weird. Just keep it clean as much as possible.
 
I like the single color evolution. Could the strip be removable/optional?


image.png


That one's a winner.
 
I agree that version without vinyl strip looks best. I'm definitely interested in buying that case if you manage to get it made :)
 
Okay, I guess I could make some concessions for such a tiny chassis…!!!

Ditching the Asus ROG M8I MB for a Gigabyte model takes me from the Intel 750-series 15mm 2.5" SSD to the Samsung 950 Pro M.2 SSD, this also removes the need for a SATA power cable…

But, speaking of power cables, what is the plan form a PSU in this chassis…? I like the compactness of the Flex ATX PSU, but I do not like the bundle of snakes that most Flex ATX PSUs have for their power cables…

I wonder if anyone makes a fully modular Flex ATX PSU…?!?
 
Hahutzy,

If it makes any difference, I'm not really feeling the handle either. I think there's a Lian Li case that does that. It would limit it to the vertical orientation. I know I may want to experiment with laying the case down horizontally. Whatever's comfortable with you though. Keep up the good work.
 
gXHSyl2.jpg


I vote for all black, NO stripe…

I would also ask that the top venting be extended across the top, not just the two strips as is currently shown. More holes, more cooling, yes…?

With that, I would also extend the air holes downwards on the side panels. Use the same 'reveal' you have on the top & sides, this will take the vents down just below the top edge of the PSU. If you can get Flex PSU with 80mm fan, extending the side vents downward would definitely help with getting fresh air into the PSU. As well as providing some air to the drives wedged alongside the PSU…

I still worry about the heat that the M.2 SSD might get to with no real cooling/airflow between the MB & the MB mounting panel. Not to mention the PCIe riser cable blocking off rising air…

I would ditch the handle as well, the chassis is small enough for most to be able to simply pick it up one-handed…
 
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The Seasonic SSP-300SUG fully modular 150mm FlexATX PSU

I wonder if 300 watts would be sufficient for a Skylake non-K i5 on a Gigabyte H170 MB, with Corsair Vengeance LPX RAM, Samsung 950 Pro M.2 SSD & an Asus GTX 970 GPU…?!?

PCPartsPicker tells me this build would pull 271 watts peak…?

And I would still worry about that M.2 SSD suffering from thermal throttling due to being sandwiched between the MB & MB tray…

Question, has the maximum HSF height increased any since you changed the specs slightly on the overall chassis, or is it still sitting at 41mm…? I would love to use the Cryorig C7 rather than the Noctua NH-L9i…
 
Dang… No dedicated GPU connector on that Seasonic unit…

I would guess one could use the pins/connectors from the SATA/IDE/Floppy power to make a 8-pin connector for the GPU…?

And if an 80mm fan could be mounted (or two…!) and the PSU flipped so the fans draw fresh air in from underneath the chassis (you are gonna need to vent that bottom plate) and exhaust out the back like normal…

But I still have a certain amount of trepidation in regards to proper cooling for the M.2 SSD… Now, two 80mm fans mounted on TOP of the PSU (no inversion), with one wired to the MB as a chassis fan, that might be enough to draw air down/across the M.2 SSD behind the MB, yet still leave the other fan to move air thru the PSU…?

Just spitballing here…

So far, the Hutzy XS chassis is the best fit for what I want in a compact gaming rig. I do not need a top-end GPU, so I can choose a mini ITX version of a mid-range GPU (Asus GeForce GTX970 DCMOC). I do not plan on overclocking at all, so a H170 MB & non-K series Skylake i5 CPU will do just fine. I DO want to take advantage of the latest NVMe protocol that SSDs are moving towards & that Skylake has made more readily accessible, so I will be using a Samsung 950 Pro M.2 SSD. By using the M.2 format SSD, I can cut one more cable out of the mix (well, two, if you count SATA power as one & SATA data as the other), reducing my 'cable budget' to a 24-pin MB, a 4-pin CPU, & a 8-pin GPU cable…

Nice & tidy…!
 
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In regards to this render:

gXHSyl2l.jpg

​
Would it be possible to do a re-render in a fine sandblasted texture, and another render in a liquid paint smooth matte black finish?
(Edit: Including black flat head socket cap screws attached to the side panel in the re-render)
 
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Just read over the thread on SFFn, a few more comments came to mind…

I would stick with the Flex ATX PSU, the Seasonic one iFreilicht linked in another post (and I re-linked here) looks interesting as it is a modular unit…

Place venting on the bottom panel, but just at the front of the PSU, so it will have somewhere to draw fresh air in from. The should allow better cooling to the PSU, but still keep a certain amount of rigidity to the bottom panel of the chassis.

Move the space you have reserved for a 80mm fan (between the PSU & the MB) to the top of the chassis. Mount dual 92mm fans up top, and make the top venting 'solid' like the side venting (meaning, one single grid of vent holes, rather than the current two strips). This should also help a great seal with cooling the M.2 SSD that most mini ITX MB manufacturers have located on the backside of the MB. I really see this as a no nonsense stripped down gaming/VR rig; MB, M.2 SSD, GPU, PSU, dual top-mounted chassis fans. Three cables from the PSU total; MB, CPU, & GPU. Include a 2-way splitter for the dual top-mounted chassis fans.

What PCIe riser cable are you using? You stated it was 300mm in length, I know the 3M one is available in 250mm & 500mm versions. I would pay extra for a top tier PCIe riser cable, and I think the 250mm length one would fit better in this chassis? Also, getting a custom harness made for the PSU (looking at the Seasonic unit again) would be a nice touch, and another item I would not mind paying extra for. I would NOT have the individual wires sleeved, as that leads to a lot of bulk, especially in a chassis this small. I think, especially with a simplified 3-cable PSU harness (MB, CPU, & GPU), that a single mesh sleeve around each wiring bundle would be best…

I am SO excited about this chassis! It really has everything I am looking for in a ultra compact gaming rig, and I REALLY like that it does not have any 'extras' that I will never use!

I could easily see paying in the ballpark of the A4-SFX for this chassis (if not more, I do have a few quality add-ons in there); if it included dual top-mount 92mm chassis fans w/2-way PWM splitter, 300w Seasonic modular Flex PSU w/custom simple-sleeved wiring harness & 250mm 3M PCIe riser cable.

Also, any word in if a Cryorig C7 will fit? You are at 99mm wide (but that is from your first post, unclear if anything has changed), and the A4-SFX is at 112mm. The A4 can fit the C7 with a single mm to spare…

Thanks for any info you can provide…!!!
 
Firstly, thank you all for the feedback.

I will make sure to go through all of posts in these few days, and answer individual questions left unanswered in this post.

The purpose of this post is to move the general design forward, because I may be locking in a design with a manufacturer and ordering a prototype this coming week.

Overwhelmingly, people have voiced that:
  • the vinyl strip is a no go
  • the handle is not needed for such a small case
So I have removed those.

Now, I pose another question:

What hole layout do you believe to be the best appearance wise?

Of note:

#1 is the original, with the vinyl strip and handle holes removed

#2 and #3
Both feature full-length side panel holes. This comes with a trade-off. Looking from the outside, you will see parts of the PSU and the SSD on the other side. Also, a lot more wiring from the PSU will show through. The upside is that there may be heat dissipation advantages, though this claim is untested.
#3 also feature full-length top holes, which I believe to be purely cosmetic and make marginal difference in heat dissipation.

#4 feature full-length top holes and a moderate increase to side holes compared to #1. Looking from the outside perpendicularly, the top of the SSD is just barely covered. The PSU is fully covered. The untested heat dissipation advantage that the full-length panel is definitely absent here.

I do personally have a favorite amongst these 4 options. But I would like to have an unbiased discussion and hear your feedback first.

Vote here: 1 2 3 4?
 
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#1 still looks the best for me. I don't like the idea of having holes all over the case. It surely lets a lot of dusts in and bring very least cooling benefit if any.

I also suggest to make a silver version, same like Dan A4. The crowdfunding will be more attractive if people have more than one option to consider.
 
I prefer 1 and 4. If you can, maybe do temperature comparison tests between 1 and 4. ;)
 
Rough Photoshop edit:

MkQ3vknl.jpg


Perhaps a compromise?

Although that said, I still prefer 1, or perhaps 2 New
 
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^ I like 2 because it has the same spacing with the horizontal non-holes at the top panel.
 
14001 can you please shrink that image, so that the forum displays more compactly for readers? You can do so by adding a lowercase L to the end of the imgur link, just before the ".jpg". Thank you.

I remade a set of 4 after I giving it a second look. I was in favor of 4, but I noticed that the "border" was much thinner at the top then on the sides (as CknSalad also hinted at), so it looked disproportionate.

I kept the old #1 and #4, and the #2 provided by 14001 (though I will have to do something about the even-odd pattern situation)

Also added my adjusted variant with thicker border. All now named #5-8

Vote: Best of 5 6 7 8?



Gotta say I am quite fond of #8 at this point, and will most likely be going with that unless there's a strong case against (heh).
 
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I like #7, but I would still recommend venting on the bottom panel in front of the PSU, to allow the PSU to intake fresh air; and I would still recommend moving your space allotted for the 80mm fan on the PSU to the top and have a pair of 92mm fans up there exhausting air out of the chassis. This, I feel, would allow the overall chassis to 'breathe' best, and ensure good airflow over all components. The top-mounted fans would also DEFINATELY help with pulling air across the M.2 SSD mounted on the backside of the MB…
 
Boil said:
I like #7, but I would still recommend venting on the bottom panel in front of the PSU, to allow the PSU to intake fresh air; and I would still recommend moving your space allotted for the 80mm fan on the PSU to the top and have a pair of 92mm fans up there exhausting air out of the chassis. This, I feel, would allow the overall chassis to 'breathe' best, and ensure good airflow over all components. The top-mounted fans would also DEFINATELY help with pulling air across the M.2 SSD mounted on the backside of the MB…
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Most of people prefer the front clean as much as possible. Looks at how attractive the successful crowndfunded NCase M1 and the upcoming Dan A4 are. Additionally, mounting a fan into such a small size case like this just increase significantly waste spaces. The good airflow design is all we need to ensure that the case won't get any cooling and throttling issues.
 
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