Linux Will Eventually Be Desktop King

Nytegard said:
Outside of home use, I haven't used a desktop in years. Every company I've worked for just gives a laptop. But other people have already brought up why I think the phone will take over. Right now, you're viewing a phone as a phone, not as a computer. And you're certainly not alone. Microsoft with their Surface is the only company starting to look into turning a tablet into a PC, and at this time, it's still rudimentary. Why can't a phone hook up to my computer monitor or use a keyboard and mouse and a printer? There's nothing stopping it, outside of the companies not seeing the bigger picture. Yes, all that stuff can be accomplished today, as there are apps and hardware for that, but it's not native to the devices. The general audience is tech ignorant, and a company can't guarantee them buying external packages. But sooner or later, an iPhone or Android could come with a docking station that connects your mobile device to your monitor and makes it a computer. I think it will probably be something wireless, so you never even have to remove your phone from your pocket. You'll just have your computer, as we all have phones. The technology is there already. It just requires a company to realize that the market could be created.
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Windows 10 Mobile with Continuum. That "phone with a dock" future came months ago.
 
pgwalsh said:
I see your point for the average person. What happens when someone wants to power their 4K 27" monitor? What happens to the developer that has multiple servers running on his computer? I don't see a phone solving the power use dilemma, but maybe in 25 years it will, but where will we be then.
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Time is really the issue here. We're looking at the future with 2016 glasses. But just take a look at the past. I remember when I was in high school, my calculus teacher talking about how our calculators were more powerful than the computer that sent man to the moon, and that was about a 25 year difference. And while it's certainly true that a mobile device isn't as powerful as a modern desktop device, they're roughly equivalent to 8-10 year old devices. Twenty five years ago, a 486 33 MHz was the fastest computer available, and PDAs were more powerful than that in 2000. NVidia claims that their Tegra X1 is as powerful as modern consoles.

Really, it comes down to adoption rates. Every year, PCs improve and so do phones. TVs tend to take a decade or so to acquire mass adoption, and consoles are a fixed platform for about the same amount of time. Right now though, phones are going through a massive turnover. Yes, some people still have their Motorola Razr, but quite a few people are going from their iPhone 1 to the 3 to the 5, etc., or whatever the Android equivalent is. Phone companies are giving users their devices to consumers much faster than consumers would normally purchase them.

And maybe a power gamer will still have a desktop, but then again, those big computers from the 1970s still exist too. They've just evolved to be much faster and targeting a smaller audience who needs their power. I'm certainly not saying desktops will go away, but a phone can service all the needs of a non power user. It just really comes down to a company seeing the potential of the untapped market.
 
Ordeith said:
Windows 10 Mobile with Continuum. That "phone with a dock" future came months ago.
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The technology exists, but it's being used badly. Consumers just don't buy upgrades, add-ons, etc., at least not for mass adoption. If you want something to take off, you need to sort of force it upon them, such as with the DVD in the PS2. When Continuum comes with your phone that you get with your mandatory cell phone contract, for a low cost, that's when grandma will say, well, why do I need to buy a computer if my phone can hold all my recipes, and I can already type email just like a PC?
 
Nytegard said:
The technology exists, but it's being used badly. Consumers just don't buy upgrades, add-ons, etc., at least not for mass adoption. If you want something to take off, you need to sort of force it upon them, such as with the DVD in the PS2. When Continuum comes with your phone that you get with your mandatory cell phone contract, for a low cost, that's when grandma will say, well, why do I need to buy a computer if my phone can hold all my recipes, and I can already type email just like a PC?
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It does come with your phone. Continuum is built in to the OS and only requires a chipset that supports multiple displays to enable it. It will become a standard feature for Windows Mobile going forward.
 
Ordeith said:
It does come with your phone. Continuum is built in to the OS and only requires a chipset that supports multiple displays to enable it. It will become a standard feature for Windows Mobile going forward.
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The main issue really is the miracast "standard". Google supported it with Android early as well. The issue is the hardware mostly sucks and the "standard" often doesn't work properly as to many companies like MS (although not just them) like to take liberties with standards. Chromecast exists because google got sick of trying to play the "standards" game. Airplay is still the best wireless display standard... and of course suffers from being an apple standard. At this point I would say Miracast has to many confusing non standard hardware in the wild for it to ever correct itself.

MS has done the work setting up continuum. What they need really though is a new hardware standard that is in fact standard. That gets rolled into new TVs and monitors as a standard feature. If any new monitor or tv purchased would just simply connect to a windows phone with no issues and no adapters needed, it would be a killer feature. As it stands currently it involves external hardware that isn't very standard, or an actual running windows 10 desktop which defeats the purpose. At least MS is half way there, there company policy of extending standards I think dooms there attempts to push their version of the miracast standard.
 
VIC-20 said:
The day Linux gets dumbed down and standardized enough for the average person to like it, is the same day its top contributors stop developing it. Besides that, If someone made an OSX style Linux (essentially hiding ALL the Linux stuff the average user doesn't understand, just as OSX hides the fact it is BSD), would it even really be Linux anymore? Wouldn't it just be called something else? Linux on the desktop is an OS by programmers for developers. Simple as that.
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Pretty much this. I think google understands this with both Android and ChromeOS. When MS adds the option for ubuntu userspace to windows 10, does that count as linux on the desktop? Or is it the kernel that people really want such as Android and ChromeOS? Or kernel + user space + XWindows?
I think linux kernel use will continue to grow and grow. With microsoft's announcement about the user space for developers it's only going to grow even more. But I don't think KDE/Gnome etc in their current form will be replacing windows. They are harder to use than windows (or at least not appreciably easier). It's stuff like OSX and ChromeOS that have a better chance as it's harder to break your whole box, you're not jumping back and forth between root, opening shells etc.

Personally I think MS is doing the right things. Unifying windows, getting better app compatibility, even the user space. There are many Unix kernels and most can run the same stuff, windows can provide that. Windows has lots of drivers and a much more stable driver environment (don't need new binaries all the time) which I consider to be a strong point. It also has lots of legacy compatibility. Apple and google will make Microsoft's life difficult, they won't make itunes and google apps for microsoft's mobile platforms, killing adoption rates. And it works, I've avoided MS Phones because they don't have the google services I like. But hopefully soon with their better cross platform support for compiling IOS projects as windows apps etc they'll get the support they need. I really don't want to see MS go away in favor of google and apple. They are every bit as bad (or worse) than MS. I'd rather we had 3 legit competitors.
 
Pieter3dnow said:
Windows is very very complex as well many many people can't fix their problems , that is why they format and reinstall they don't care what they do wrong every time they just can't fix it ...
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Look, I'm not saying Windows is great an an ideal OS. I'm saying it's what people know and are used to. If you want people to switch from Windows to Linux, Linux needs to keep people in their comfort zone, not dump a piece of crap called Unity on them. Don't be different for the sake of being different. If there's a compelling case for being different because it's better then lets see the study.

Photoshop ? WineHQ - Adobe Photoshop

Why reinvent the wheel if you want to use programs under Linux you can even if they are Windows based.

MS is responsible for hardware sales problem and people do not care about the PC as they used to a lot of them happy with their phone or tablet.

Eventually computer users will get smarter and the bridge between smarter users and "more" user friendly Linux OS will be last step to be taken .....
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So the retort to the argument that Linux isn't ready for prime time (and never will be) is to use Windows programs under Linux? Yeah, that's gonna convince people to switch...
 
Dr. Righteous said:
Want a game changer? Here it is:
Microsoft need to develop and distribute their OWN linux distro. Call it MS linux version name Gimpy.
While this may seem to be completely against their grain what better way to get in the game?
What will make it attractive? Office suite included; MS office for Linux. (instead of LibreOffice)
And with Microsoft taking it seriously hardware vendors will start seriously optimizing driver for it.

Now would windows users in droves jump from MS windows to MS linux? No, not really.
Many of the more computer savvy will; but the unwashed masses won't. But MS will have a presents in this world were it didn't before.
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Unless MS is charging a few hundred for this distro, I fail to see the point. A free OS with a free copy of their cash cow, Office, isn't gonna help the bottom line.
 
nilepez said:
Unless MS is charging a few hundred for this distro, I fail to see the point. A free OS with a free copy of their cash cow, Office, isn't gonna help the bottom line.
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MS isn't so worry about revenues from software sales anymore; they have transitioned into a data mining company with windows 10.
They have recently softened their stance concerning linux. Now would be the time for them to co-op the competing desktop with their own distro;
People that adopt it will lean toward "MS-OK" apps for it, etc. This is part of how the assimilate and dominate.
 
ChadD said:
The main issue really is the miracast "standard". Google supported it with Android early as well. The issue is the hardware mostly sucks and the "standard" often doesn't work properly as to many companies like MS (although not just them) like to take liberties with standards. Chromecast exists because google got sick of trying to play the "standards" game. Airplay is still the best wireless display standard... and of course suffers from being an apple standard. At this point I would say Miracast has to many confusing non standard hardware in the wild for it to ever correct itself.

MS has done the work setting up continuum. What they need really though is a new hardware standard that is in fact standard. That gets rolled into new TVs and monitors as a standard feature. If any new monitor or tv purchased would just simply connect to a windows phone with no issues and no adapters needed, it would be a killer feature. As it stands currently it involves external hardware that isn't very standard, or an actual running windows 10 desktop which defeats the purpose. At least MS is half way there, there company policy of extending standards I think dooms there attempts to push their version of the miracast standard.
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Miracast works fine. It is purposefully gimped on Android by Google so they can push their proprietary "Google Cast" nonsense. The problem Google had with Miracast was the ability of the device to function independently of an internet connection, so Google could potentially be locked out of the usage telemetry. Google didn't like Miracast because it wouldn't let them spy on their users as much as they wanted to.
 
Nytegard said:
While I'm certainly not a fan of Linux, I think it will be sooner than 25 years. Desktops are disappearing. It's only a matter of time before people's phones/tablets are their primary computer, at which point, unless Microsoft makes a dent in that market, Linux will reign supreme.
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How? Just because people use phones more doesn't mean they're going to switch their desktop OS. Linux would need to support the same range of software and hardware with roughly equal backwards compatibility for people to switch.
 
Taco said:
I tried using Linux as my desktop in the late 90s, then around 2005 and then again around a year or 2 ago. It's always the same story, different year. Pretty interface that inevitably requires me to jump to CLI and dig through dependency and config file hell to install any simple app or get anything done.
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Funny. Because when I bought a new netbook to replace my Chromebook, best deal I could find was something that came with Windows 10. So I expected to have to deal with some stuff not working in Linux. Pulled the hard drive, put an SSD in... and installed xUbuntu 14.04... a version that was released almost two years before the netbook was sold.

Everything worked out of the box. No CLI jumping into needed. No proprietary drivers. No needing to update before this or that worked. All of it was ready to go after first reboot.

Windows 10 is still missing proper card reader drivers for the netbook.

In my experience, even with the occasional hassle of having to use proprietary drivers for things like the GPU, Linux has always worked with more hardware out of the box than Windows ever has... otherwise, y'know... driver downloads wouldn't be such a significant part of the Windows installation process like it has been for decades.
 
rat said:
In my experience, even with the occasional hassle of having to use proprietary drivers for things like the GPU, Linux has always worked with more hardware out of the box than Windows ever has... otherwise, y'know... driver downloads wouldn't be such a significant part of the Windows installation process like it has been for decades.
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That's a good point, and one worth exploring further. It seems like Linux has better OOTB support for the most common hardware. In fact, the more I think about it, the only place where people have a widespread (and I would agree legitimate) gripe about Linux driver support is discrete graphics.
 
Mohonri said:
That's a good point, and one worth exploring further. It seems like Linux has better OOTB support for the most common hardware. In fact, the more I think about it, the only place where people have a widespread (and I would agree legitimate) gripe about Linux driver support is discrete graphics.
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I think this is an extremely difficult thing to prove. In rat's case of the netbook with Windows 10 with no card reader driver install, that's an OEM issue. Not sure how common that is but I can't think of a time when I purchased a retail device that was lacking a driver for the included hardware. Linux may have better support for older and non-supported hardware for new hardware I don' think that's this case at all. In the installs and upgrades of done with Windows 10 on commodity hardware with integrated graphics, just upgraded a neighbor's machine to 10 this past weekend, a 6 year old device that came with 7, all the drivers have installed automagically.

Sure, there are things like accelerometers and digital pens that have needed to be done manually, but I doubt things like that would be automatic with Linux either, assuming there's drivers in the first place.
 
Another aspect of all this is the total loss of control and privacy you get with most mobile OS and increasingly Windows. With Linux you know what you're getting. It's vetted. It's not trying to hide stuff from you, it wants you to have full ownership.

For people that want that, Linux is really the only sane choice.
 
mastaBlasta said:
Another aspect of all this is the total loss of control and privacy you get with most mobile OS and increasingly Windows. With Linux you know what you're getting. It's vetted. It's not trying to hide stuff from you, it wants you to have full ownership.

For people that want that, Linux is really the only sane choice.
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And for the topic of this discussion irrelevant. Much like every single pro-linux post in this thread. True, but irrelevant in a discussion around mass market adoption.
 
mastaBlasta said:
Another aspect of all this is the total loss of control and privacy you get with most mobile OS and increasingly Windows. With Linux you know what you're getting. It's vetted. It's not trying to hide stuff from you, it wants you to have full ownership.

For people that want that, Linux is really the only sane choice.
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A lot of what people label as a lack of privacy in Windows 10 does power a number of features that do make sense a world where users are using multiple devices even across different ecosystems. There's a lot of convenience in this stuff and consumers don't seem to be able to get enough of it. In 25 you have to figure that this is only going to become more common and that more and more devices will share data in ways no one has thought of yet.
 
Taco said:
And for the topic of this discussion irrelevant. Much like every single pro-linux post in this thread. True, but irrelevant in a discussion around mass market adoption.
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I think that the point is kind of relevant to mass market adoption. Will the average person want their PCs, phones and other devices to share and leverage more and information across more and more devices or less over the next 25 years? While I get this isn't what everyone wants it would seem to be where the average consumer will want to go.

Again, I understand the privacy concerns. But I don't see Linux becoming more and more mainstream because more privacy means less ability to leverage data across multiple devices. When people say their phone isn't a PC, does that really fit today? Phone stuff only on the phone, PC stuff only on the PC. Technology tends not to work like this over time.
 
once Linux gets to the point where first tier gaming shops release for it like they do Windows I will switch. Until then I am on windows because of my extensive steam library consisting of many many windows only games.
 
Mohonri said:
That's a good point, and one worth exploring further. It seems like Linux has better OOTB support for the most common hardware. In fact, the more I think about it, the only place where people have a widespread (and I would agree legitimate) gripe about Linux driver support is discrete graphics.
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Huh? I've got co-workers that love Linux and they gave up on it at work, because of wireless driver issues. That never happens with windows. And while it's possible that I may have to update some drivers on a new install, I have to go back to a very old version of windows to not have wireless, graphics or similar issues with Windows. Linux does have a nice system for keeping apps updated, but I can use PSI on Windows and it takes care of it, so I don't consider that a big advantage for Linux at this point. They do have a nice app store, but for Windows, I don't really need it. Unlike *nix, I can just download an app and install it. I haven't used desktop Linux in 5 or 6 years, but as I recall, downloading a new version of Firefox an installing it into Ubuntu was anything but straightforward (updates to the supported version were very easy).
 
heatlesssun said:
I think that the point is kind of relevant to mass market adoption. Will the average person want their PCs, phones and other devices to share and leverage more and information across more and more devices or less over the next 25 years? While I get this isn't what everyone wants it would seem to be where the average consumer will want to go.

Again, I understand the privacy concerns. But I don't see Linux becoming more and more mainstream because more privacy means less ability to leverage data across multiple devices. When people say their phone isn't a PC, does that really fit today? Phone stuff only on the phone, PC stuff only on the PC. Technology tends not to work like this over time.
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All signs point to younger people not caring that much about data collection. I see them post far more things globally on Facebook than I ever would...then again I post nothing that's globally visible, other than comments on pages.
 
gigatexal said:
once Linux gets to the point where first tier gaming shops release for it like they do Windows I will switch. Until then I am on windows because of my extensive steam library consisting of many many windows only games.
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It's gotten significantly better in the last 2 years with Steam... but yeah, this is still a point of contention. That and Adobe. I know so many shops that would dump BOTH Windows and MacOS if the Adobe suite was only available for Linux distributions.
 
nilepez said:
All signs point to younger people not caring that much about data collection. I see them post far more things globally on Facebook than I ever would...then again I post nothing that's globally visible, other than comments on pages.
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They have yet to live the consequences of that behavior. This will take decades to settle out. The pendulum could easily start to swing the other way.
 
nilepez said:
I haven't used desktop Linux in 5 or 6 years, but as I recall, downloading a new version of Firefox an installing it into Ubuntu was anything but straightforward (updates to the supported version were very easy).
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Things have changed a lot in 5 years. At this point all the major distros have very good package managers. Firefox is almost always the default install. (and all the major distros like ubuntu make it easy to run the latest greatest or most stable as you choose) Installing anything else like Chromium or any other software is as simple as opening the package manager and clicking the install button on the program you want. The largest distros like mint (ubuntu based) will even let you know which packages have been tested and which have not with a numbering system that is easy to grasp for even new people. The amount of very good software that is a simple one click at this point is pretty extensive. For most windows guys, you will even realize that 90% of the "windows" software you use is really linux created and tends to run better under linux. Programs like VLC, UMS, Deluge/qbittorrent/transmission, Libre, Mozzilla/thunderbird, Calibre. (Installing actual Chrome isn't normally as easy as just one click, the only reason to do so is if you have netflix. Due to stupid DRM Chromium won't netflix but Chrome will. Its one of the only reasons I could think of that a "normal" person user may have to touch a command line to add the google chrome repository... which I guess you could do from most distros graphical package managers, but instructions they find will have terminal command instructions so as to be universal)

Games are catching up, and Valve has done a lot of good for linux the last year or two. With Vulkan it might get better yet, still no one can argue that windows is still easier and almost always the faster option. (vulkan and more native game engine support may change that) Other then that unless you must have photoshop linux has you covered for gfx editing. For video editing believe it or not... linux is starting to more then hold its own as pros start to get their heads around blender. Blender is one of the best video editing tools out their right now and its gpl licence. Closed source codecs used to be a pain as well (Mp3s) but most of the major distors now offer an option to download that stuff during install bypassing the legal junk there and saving newer linux people some pain.

Mostly linux is pretty user friendly these days... the key is choosing the right distro. That can be a pain no doubt. With choice comes confusion I guess. (Ubuntu and Mint are likely the most new user proof)
 
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rezerekted said:
Who the fuck wants to read web pages on a small screen phone? Certainly not me!
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I don't do forums on my phone (unless I'm stuck some place and I'm bored), but I browse the web on my phone with some regularity. Occasionally I do it while I'm sitting in front of my PC, though I eventually remember I'm a lot faster at typing on my computer ;)
 
ChadD said:
Things have changed a lot in 5 years. At this point all the major distros have very good package managers. Firefox is almost always the default install. (and all the major distros like ubuntu make it easy to run the latest greatest or most stable as you choose) Installing anything else like Chromium or any other software is as simple as opening the package manager and clicking the install button on the program you want. The largest distros like mint (ubuntu based) will even let you know which packages have been tested and which have not with a numbering system that is easy to grasp for even new people. The amount of very good software that is a simple one click at this point is pretty extensive. For most windows guys, you will even realize that 90% of the "windows" software you use is really linux created and tends to run better under linux. Programs like VLC, UMS, Deluge/qbittorrent/transmission, Libre, Mozzilla/thunderbird, Calibre. (Installing actual Chrome isn't normally as easy as just one click, the only reason to do so is if you have netflix. Due to stupid DRM Chromium won't netflix but Chrome will. Its one of the only reasons I could think of that a "normal" person user may have to touch a command line to add the google chrome repository... which I guess you could do from most distros graphical package managers, but instructions they find will have terminal command instructions so as to be universal)

Games are catching up, and Valve has done a lot of good for linux the last year or two. With Vulkan it might get better yet, still no one can argue that windows is still easier and almost always the faster option. (vulkan and more native game engine support may change that) Other then that unless you must have photoshop linux has you covered for gfx editing. For video editing believe it or not... linux is starting to more then hold its own as pros start to get their heads around blender. Blender is one of the best video editing tools out their right now and its gpl licence. Closed source codecs used to be a pain as well (Mp3s) but most of the major distors now offer an option to download that stuff during install bypassing the legal junk there and saving newer linux people some pain.

Mostly linux is pretty user friendly these days... the key is choosing the right distro. That can be a pain no doubt. With choice comes confusion I guess. (Ubuntu and Mint are likely the most new user proof)
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Ubuntu had great package management, but it didn't, at that time, offer Firefox X+1 (where X is the major release included with the build). And my point was that you don't really need that as much on Windows, simply because it's super easy to install software. When I tried to install Firefox X+1, it was pointless. I didn't know what I needed to do and I didn't have the desire to turn installing a web browser into a research project at work.

As for things working better on Linux, maybe, but ease of use trumps a bit better performance..besides, I've never had a problem with VLC or MPC. Most stuff I use on Windows just works. As for graphics editing, almost nobody that does photo editing regularly (especially if it's there job) is going to use Gimp. Photoshop and Lightroom are $9.99 a month. Why would you even consider working with Gimp at that point? The answer for virtually everyone is they wouldn't.
 
Linux will not ever be a big deal on the desktop. For business, gaming, and for school work, Win will be the primary OS for the foreseeable future. However, devices running Linux have replaced many, certainly no where near all, but many desktops, or relegated many of them to annual tax duty, and the kids schoolwork.

I suspect one of the primary reasons MS Office is not on linux, is because if it were, Linux would be a whole lot more attractive to both business and education.
 
Nytegard said:
While I'm certainly not a fan of Linux, I think it will be sooner than 25 years. Desktops are disappearing. It's only a matter of time before people's phones/tablets are their primary computer, at which point, unless Microsoft makes a dent in that market, Linux will reign supreme.
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Not in my business environment or any business environment I have ever seen.

Not only is Microsoft favored for the desktop it's also the only enterprise solution going that I have seen. The US Government and it's Departments are not even imagining a future move away from Microsoft. Don't get me wrong, they are using linux servers for specific needs and they even still use Solaris for some. But those OSes do not power the largest Enterprise Domain in the world and the US Army does have the largest Enterprise Domain by far. It's so big, Microsoft told the Army it couldn't be done and the Army went ahead and did it anyway and it works. Go figure. Now there is a unified DoD Email domain, one Domain to rule them all, @mail.mil
 
lcpiper said:
Not in my business environment or any business environment I have ever seen.

Not only is Microsoft favored for the desktop it's also the only enterprise solution going that I have seen. The US Government and it's Departments are not even imagining a future move away from Microsoft. Don't get me wrong, they are using linux servers for specific needs and they even still use Solaris for some. But those OSes do not power the largest Enterprise Domain in the world and the US Army does have the largest Enterprise Domain by far. It's so big, Microsoft told the Army it couldn't be done and the Army went ahead and did it anyway and it works. Go figure. Now there is a unified DoD Email domain, one Domain to rule them all, @mail.mil
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I believe that for Email that's definitely true, but I'm not so sure about other servers (at least not outside the military). I know we have tons of *nix servers, but our email and a few other servers that support the PC network, are MS. Most (all?) off our web servers are *nix too. When I worked at one of the biggest Telecom Equipment companies we were almost entirely *nix, though desktops were mostly PCs and a few people used Macs, but that was a dozen years back.
 
When you are dealing with any kind of a large virtualized environment you have all those other things going. If many of the tools your teams use are MS products, Office, Vizio, etc, and you are running Sharepoint, and you have many user groups and need to control access to file shares. Active Directory, Group Policy, NTFS permissions just are still the best overall way to go.

That being said, I agree nilepez, for those work environments that don't have these needs, MS becomes a much less compelling player and business can be done much cheaper.
 
rat said:
Funny. Because when I bought a new netbook to replace my Chromebook, best deal I could find was something that came with Windows 10. So I expected to have to deal with some stuff not working in Linux. Pulled the hard drive, put an SSD in... and installed xUbuntu 14.04... a version that was released almost two years before the netbook was sold.

Everything worked out of the box. No CLI jumping into needed. No proprietary drivers. No needing to update before this or that worked. All of it was ready to go after first reboot.

Windows 10 is still missing proper card reader drivers for the netbook.

In my experience, even with the occasional hassle of having to use proprietary drivers for things like the GPU, Linux has always worked with more hardware out of the box than Windows ever has... otherwise, y'know... driver downloads wouldn't be such a significant part of the Windows installation process like it has been for decades.
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Haha not even remotely close. Linux is a mass of non supported hardware. Always has been always will until the day they give and make a mass friendly version then they'll be called sellouts.
 
Climber said:
Haha not even remotely close. Linux is a mass of non supported hardware. Always has been always will until the day they give and make a mass friendly version then they'll be called sellouts.
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I don't think the market is dying. I think they want "more" control over everything, and they feel like they don't have it. I hear this thing about people saying oh the market is going for mobile only now. if that was true, why are they trying to modify a "desktop" os (windows) to a mobile os? why not make a mobile os only, and let windows "desktops" alone?
its like I think sometimes, there are markets for "laptops", "tablets", "servers", "desktops", "etc." what are rich people trying to do? making everything into one? one os, one way only?
 
AndreRio said:
I don't think the market is dying. I think they want "more" control over everything, and they feel like they don't have it. I hear this thing about people saying oh the market is going for mobile only now. if that was true, why are they trying to modify a "desktop" os (windows) to a mobile os? why not make a mobile os only, and let windows "desktops" alone?
its like I think sometimes, there are markets for "laptops", "tablets", "servers", "desktops", "etc." what are rich people trying to do? making everything into one? one os, one way only?
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MS wanted a way to allow developers to write an app that works on a PC, tablet and phone. As for people wanting more control, that's not my experience. Most people I know (outside of IT) want something that works without them having to futz with it. I have to admit that the older I get, the more that's what I want. When I was in college, I hated that control was removed by Windows 95 vs DOS, but I'd never want to go back to that now.
 
Mohonri said:
That's a good point, and one worth exploring further. It seems like Linux has better OOTB support for the most common hardware. In fact, the more I think about it, the only place where people have a widespread (and I would agree legitimate) gripe about Linux driver support is discrete graphics.
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This is something I've noticed as well. From Windows 8 onward Microsoft dropped support for a lot of hardware. At first I thought it was only going to impact media center devices like remotes and tuners, but across the board Linux seems to have better support for older hardware now.

As for Linux gaining ground... Eh. Steam on Linux has dramatically improved the situation, but desktop Linux has the same problem it's had for a while. You can do 90% of what you can do in Windows easily, but that other 10% is going to require a Ph.D. in computer science to figure out. That and all Linux GUIs look like shit.
 
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