24" Widescreen CRT (FW900) From Ebay arrived,Comments.

bramabul5353 said:
Enter the Abyss..... lol They are very Dark indeed. That G2 adjustment is very good at making sure your contrast is at its best. If you turn out all the lights in the room then it is almost impossible when loading a black image on the screen to tell if my FW900 is even on. I had someone comment here saying that the KURO Plasma was maybe darker, but after comparing my VT60 to My FW900 there is not contest. The CRT all day wins in this area after calibration.
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I had my Kuro and FW900 in the same room for a couple years, The black levels on the Plasma were reaallly close to the point the difference was only really noticeable when looking at a solid black screen, I took this shot off the plasma in a completely dark room: http://i.imgur.com/LNjIwxc.jpg
 
atwix said:
the CRT blacks are SO Black, that the 'power on' light of the CRT is the only thing visible.

I'm looking at the blacks on above screenshots, and is it ME or can you actually SEE the difference between where the CRT screen is at, compared to the bezel and the crt surrounding?

Must be my imagination, but I think I see a black rectangle where the CRT is that is even BLACKER then the darkness on the photo :eek:

Only a CRT can do those black levels..

I think if I look really hard, that I can actually see the contours of the Bezel of the CRT, just thanks to the LIGHT the LCD screen gives off.
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Actually, with a black image a CRT looks exactly the same on/off. Obviously the blacks on/off are in fact really dark green because of the phosphor but at night it's black-black for the eye, thats why end plasmas and OLEDs show better blackier blacks.

Just look at the "black" of a CRT in off state.
 
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Nintendork said:
Actually, with a black image a CRT looks exactly the same on/off. Obviously the blacks on/off are in fact really dark green because of the phosphor but at night it's black-black for the eye, thats why end plasmas and OLEDs show better blackier blacks.

Just look at the "black" of a CRT in off state.
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No.
 
Nintendork said:
Actually, with a black image a CRT looks exactly the same on/off. Obviously the blacks on/off are in fact really dark green because of the phosphor but at night it's black-black for the eye, thats why end plasmas and OLEDs show better blackier blacks.

Just look at the "black" of a CRT in off state.
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That's not a properly calibrated CRT.
The best CRTs, when properly calibrated, will have about 10,000:1 on/off contrast.

When you set the bias low enough that the tube turns off with a black signal - and most CRTs take about 30-60 seconds to actually fade to complete black instead of having a very faint glow - you will have really bad streaking when anything moves over a black background and the gamma response will be way off. (often over 3)

mathesar said:
I had my Kuro and FW900 in the same room for a couple years, The black levels on the Plasma were reaallly close to the point the difference was only really noticeable when looking at a solid black screen, I took this shot off the plasma in a completely dark room: http://i.imgur.com/LNjIwxc.jpg
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I had a KRP500M and that was not my experience at all. You can expose a photo where black looks truly black for any display.
Here's a photo from a projector which has a higher contrast ratio than the Kuros, but black level is definitely not that good when you see it in person. Still noticeably gray to my eyes.

My experience with the Kuros is that the black level was quite easily noticed if watching the TV in a dark room, and not only on black screens.
The bigger problem was the awful PWM driving of the display, resulting in terrible motion handling, lots of image noise (dither), and really bad posterization near black.
It also clipped low-level shadow details when set to produce its darkest black level. (not something that could be fixed with the ISF controls, despite what many people claimed)

OLED is the only display which can do true black, but it's going to be years before it's a CRT replacement unless the only thing you care about is black level.
 
zone74 said:
I had a KRP500M and that was not my experience at all. You can expose a photo where black looks truly black for any display.
Here's a photo from a projector which has a higher contrast ratio than the Kuros, but black level is definitely not that good when you see it in person. Still noticeably gray to my eyes.

My experience with the Kuros is that the black level was quite easily noticed if watching the TV in a dark room, and not only on black screens.
The bigger problem was the awful PWM driving of the display, resulting in terrible motion handling, lots of image noise (dither), and really bad posterization near black.
It also clipped low-level shadow details when set to produce its darkest black level. (not something that could be fixed with the ISF controls, despite what many people claimed)
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That is really odd, maybe im not as picky but my eyes see vastly superior black levels from the Kuro vs. any LCD ive owned (and currently own) and they're not far off my FW900 (RIP) and XBR960N (still working). the plasma only emits a faint glow when displaying a solid black screen in a dark room, The XBR960 can get darker here no doubt but I've found I have to keep brightness turned up one notch higher than "pitch black" in order to avoid loss of shadow details. Motion handling has been amazing to me on the Plasma especially the way it handles 60fps gaming compared to LCD, Consider me a bit confused by your post lol.
 
So in one week, I will finally meet my two beloved fw900, it almost feels like a arranged marriage since ive been waiting since late November. After doing more research, and becoming(imesho) a bit wiser, I settled on 1920x1200 for now, and i've read most people have gotten then to 96 or 97 hz when running in 1920x1200. has anyone here actually gotten this to run in 1920x1200 @ 100hz yet? or is it not possible? Im picking up the Monaco by X-Rite Calibration color meter, jbltecnicspro linked. as well to do your white balance and adjustment guide, spacedriver. so with that I think im good? I have a nvidia card (750ti) so I can output to them till Mr.moome HDMI 2.0 14-bit ramdac is finished. Maybe A really good shielded VGA/BNC cable recommendation?
 
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Just get a quality VGA cable. Interestingly enough, I find that older cables are more hit than miss, compared to newer cables. Newer cables, unless you pay for it, aren't all that great.

GTX-750ti, while not ideal, should be fine for 1920x1200. My video card for a couple of years was a GTX-560. Be prepared to turn down some settings like shadow quality.

2304x1440 is ideal for this monitor though. Once your screen is dialed in it must be seen to be believed.
 
I have a 280x but like I said i'm waiting for the HDMI 2.0 ramdac moome is making. My main goal is I wamt to know if its possible to get this running in 1920x1200 @100hz, so I was going to use the 750ti I have since it has a built in ramdac unlike the 280x, untill the ramdac(moome) is finish, I might consider the new nvidia depending but I dont want to buy a card and then have nvidia purposely cripple it like the 780's .I think I am going to just get a really nice shielded VGA cable off ebay.
 
Mumble said:
I have a 280x but like I said i'm waiting for the HDMI 2.0 ramdac moome is making. My main goal is I wamt to know if its possible to get this running in 1920x1200 @100hz, so I was going to use the 750ti I have since it has a built in ramdac unlike the 280x, untill the ramdac(moome) is finish, I might consider the new nvidia depending but I dont want to buy a card and then have nvidia purposely cripple it like the 780's .I think I am going to just get a really nice shielded VGA cable off ebay.
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I thought only the 290's (and 390's and up) didn't have DAC's? Surely the 280x does?
 
jbltecnicspro said:
I thought only the 290's (and 390's and up) didn't have DAC's? Surely the 280x does?
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I though it didn't, I havnt used it yet to be honest, and I only saw Dvi's and hdmi. I bought it then my Motherboard and CPU shorted out and ive been on something else for the time being. Since am4 is coming out this year, I was waiting to see how it was(am4) before I just bought another am3+(dead platform), and I really didnt feel like buying a intel board and cpu until I know how am4 is.

Since then I've been catching up on my retro game, then my x-star got dead pixels. So I haven't been playing many games lately to be honest, so the 280x has just been sitting there getting dust.
 
That's a really nice job with the calibration, bramabul5353. I thought I did ok but it's not even close to what you have it at. I had this feeling when I was doing calibration that my G2 values could have easily been lower. I still got about another 6 months to go before I redo the calibration on this baby and hopefully by that time, I have a gaming pc. For right now, im using my laptop as the pc and the monitor for light gaming sessions and general desk top usage.

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jbltecnicspro said:
SAPPHIRE Radeon R9 280X DirectX 11.2 100363VXSR 3GB 384-Bit GDDR5 PCI Express 3.0 x16 HDCP Ready CrossFireX Support Video Card - Newegg.com

Looks like there's a DVI-I port on this particular card. I suspect the other ones have it too.
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Yeah my old 280x had analog support and my 290 doesn't

PCnerf said:
That's a really nice job with the calibration, bramabul5353. I thought I did ok but it's not even close to what you have it at. I had this feeling when I was doing calibration that my G2 values could have easily been lower. I still got about another 6 months to go before I redo the calibration on this baby and hopefully by that time, I have a gaming pc. For right now, im using my laptop as the pc and the monitor for light gaming sessions and general
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looks fantastic. Need to find a card that supports analog and calibrate mine, this vga/hdmi adapter just doesn't cut it.
 
Is it normal to have brightness at 14 and contrast at 90-95 to get okay contrast/black levels? especially after ti's warmed up for hours playing movies? mine is supposed to be calibrated ...i think. maybe it needs to be calibrated for each source?
 
cdoublejj said:
Is it normal to have brightness at 14 and contrast at 90-95 to get okay contrast/black levels? especially after ti's warmed up for hours playing movies? mine is supposed to be calibrated ...i think. maybe it needs to be calibrated for each source?
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I think your'e fine. It probably needs to be calibrated because once it's all said and done, WinDAS sets your monitor at Brightness = 31 and Contrast = 90 for the FW900. For the CR-1 monitors (F520 and Artisan and the like) it sets it to Bright = 50 and Contrast = 85.

So inky blacks, on a warmed-up, calibrated monitor, will occur at Brightness = 31 for the FW900 and Brightness = 50 for its little siblings.
 
Been playing The Witness. A true joy on the FW900, especially a calibrated one. This game has unbelievable colors. They really did a fantastic job on the color mastering, I've never felt such a sense of realism based on color alone.


 
huh? The puzzles are excellent, what are you talking about? I'm only a few hours in, so don't reply if you end up giving spoilers.
 
Yea I can really tell you without spoiling it, just the narration and the air the game gives and other things. dont get me wrong I love puzzle games, and the puzzles were OKAY. The game just feels extremely arbitrary just to be so.
 
Alright folks, I have a bit of a proposition for you guys.

So, it's actually a well-known fact in the Sony CRT projection crowd, that Sony projectors have an auto-rgb circuit that regulates the RGB levels of the projectors. Most enthusiasts modify their projectors and remove this circuit, as it ruins black levels... The effect of this circuit sounds eerily similar to our "overbright" problem. The circuit over-compensates and raises black levels and just doesn't look good.

Because I don't have a ton of time this weekend to connect my monitor to WinDAS, would one of you be willing to hook your monitor up and view your back up files? What I want to do, when I have time (because the Artisan is next in line for a calibration), is to check the last calibration I did with it and compare THAT G2 level to the G2 level when I make a back up. If I'm right, and I think that I could be... I think that these monitors have an auto-RGB circuit like the projectors, that raises the G2 level. That's just a thought.

Because really - if the G2 adjustment truly IS going whack, then a G2 of 100 on one day should look different than a G2 of 100 on another day. Yet, I've calibrated my screens frequently enough that I've noticed that I usually hover around the same G2 area when calibrating them.

Oh and by the way, the broadcast monitors also have an auto-rgb function, though it's not called that. It's defeatable with a press of a button though. So I think I may be onto something... I won't know unless someone can take a crack at it though.
 
I'm not sure what you're asking. How would my current G2 value give you any indication of whether the setting drifts or not? Wouldn't you need me to read off my G2 today, and then, say, a few months later?

also, for what it's worth, I'm pretty sure the G2 voltage itself doesn't drift.
 
jbltecnicspro said:
Alright folks, I have a bit of a proposition for you guys.

So, it's actually a well-known fact in the Sony CRT projection crowd, that Sony projectors have an auto-rgb circuit that regulates the RGB levels of the projectors. Most enthusiasts modify their projectors and remove this circuit, as it ruins black levels... The effect of this circuit sounds eerily similar to our "overbright" problem. The circuit over-compensates and raises black levels and just doesn't look good.

Because I don't have a ton of time this weekend to connect my monitor to WinDAS, would one of you be willing to hook your monitor up and view your back up files? What I want to do, when I have time (because the Artisan is next in line for a calibration), is to check the last calibration I did with it and compare THAT G2 level to the G2 level when I make a back up. If I'm right, and I think that I could be... I think that these monitors have an auto-RGB circuit like the projectors, that raises the G2 level. That's just a thought.

Because really - if the G2 adjustment truly IS going whack, then a G2 of 100 on one day should look different than a G2 of 100 on another day. Yet, I've calibrated my screens frequently enough that I've noticed that I usually hover around the same G2 area when calibrating them.

Oh and by the way, the broadcast monitors also have an auto-rgb function, though it's not called that. It's defeatable with a press of a button though. So I think I may be onto something... I won't know unless someone can take a crack at it though.
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Here's a thread on Badcaps that may be of interest: Dell P1110 21" CRT repair thread - Badcaps Forums I don't know if this is exactly what you mean, but it's very similar. (I read through it a while back, as I remember there's a circuit in the GDM Trinitrons that does what you're describing.)
 
spacediver said:
Wouldn't you need me to read off my G2 today, and then, say, a few months later?
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Yep - exactly. Sorry - wasn't clear in my post apparently. I assume everyone makes backups of their dat files and archives them? I do. For the Artisan, I haven't calibrated it since last June. So I would disassemble it, hook it up to WinDAS, make a backup of it right now and compare the two values. I'm guessing we'll see it increase.
 
I don't make backups - I remember saving a dat file after a WPB and then loading the dat and the WPB wasn't the same, so I figured the dat wasn't perfect, and that if I ever needed a backup file I could just MPU. I'll take a look at my G2 soon and make a note of it, and then see if it changes. My instincts tell me it won't, but it would be good to see for sure (my understanding of the overbright issue was itself a manifestation of cathode drift, and that periodic G2 adjustments are necessary compensate for this drift, not that the G2 voltage itself is being changed through not-so-intelligent circuitry). I could well be wrong though.
 
Interesting. I've never really looked too deeply into the dat files so I never caught that. I would rely on a backup first before an MPU. The thing with the MPU is that it resets everything and loads a standard file generated by WinDAS. I MPU'd a couple of my monitors, and on my FW900 especially, it messed it up something good. In order for me to bring it back into spec, I would have had to adjust the purity magnet so that the landing adjustments fell into range. In my opinion, an MPU is only necessary when all else fails. Otherwise, you could be potentially spending hours upon hours just to get it back into the state that you had it, pre-MPU.
 
Yea I suppose it's a good idea to have a backup file. I do have one come to think of it, it's just that I don't recreate them each time I calibrate.
 
spacediver said:
Yea I suppose it's a good idea to have a backup file. I do have one come to think of it, it's just that I don't recreate them each time I calibrate.
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Yeah, I thought you might. :) Anyone who follows good calibration practices would at least have one. I may have time this afternoon to crack at the Artisan. If I do, I plan on viewing the newly created backup and the calibration file from last year.
 
jbltecnicspro said:
I think your'e fine. It probably needs to be calibrated because once it's all said and done, WinDAS sets your monitor at Brightness = 31 and Contrast = 90 for the FW900. For the CR-1 monitors (F520 and Artisan and the like) it sets it to Bright = 50 and Contrast = 85.

So inky blacks, on a warmed-up, calibrated monitor, will occur at Brightness = 31 for the FW900 and Brightness = 50 for its little siblings.
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I only ask because this SGI unit is only supposed to have 400 hours on it. I know that makes it different model but, prior reading in this threads says it should be the same as the FW900 but, with a different case color. I think it was supposed to come pre calibrated but, i wonder if that changes for each source or computer it's hooked up to.

Whats strange is my old ass used up dell M993s has better colors that are much much closer to my OLED phone. At least from i can tell today.
 
jbltecnicspro said:
Alright folks, I have a bit of a proposition for you guys.

So, it's actually a well-known fact in the Sony CRT projection crowd, that Sony projectors have an auto-rgb circuit that regulates the RGB levels of the projectors. Most enthusiasts modify their projectors and remove this circuit, as it ruins black levels... The effect of this circuit sounds eerily similar to our "overbright" problem. The circuit over-compensates and raises black levels and just doesn't look good.

Because I don't have a ton of time this weekend to connect my monitor to WinDAS, would one of you be willing to hook your monitor up and view your back up files? What I want to do, when I have time (because the Artisan is next in line for a calibration), is to check the last calibration I did with it and compare THAT G2 level to the G2 level when I make a back up. If I'm right, and I think that I could be... I think that these monitors have an auto-RGB circuit like the projectors, that raises the G2 level. That's just a thought.

Because really - if the G2 adjustment truly IS going whack, then a G2 of 100 on one day should look different than a G2 of 100 on another day. Yet, I've calibrated my screens frequently enough that I've noticed that I usually hover around the same G2 area when calibrating them.

Oh and by the way, the broadcast monitors also have an auto-rgb function, though it's not called that. It's defeatable with a press of a button though. So I think I may be onto something... I won't know unless someone can take a crack at it though.
Click to expand...

I would check on www.curtpalme.com and ask, they have a very varied knowledge of CRT, the best way to test this is to get a less then good Fw900 and tinkering with it.
Michael J Moffitt's Project Log » Blog Archive » NTSC TV RGB input hack
there is some info on the CRT hacking, really good read, as well you could shoot the guy some questions.


spacediver said:
did you complete it without help?
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Yes, But still is a terrible game, its just one puzzle with over 500 different combination, the only reason its getting looked at is because it made by one-hit wonder indie dev with braid. I shouldnt even called it a game, its more like a task. the only thing it has going for it is how it looks. Talos principal is a much better game, with story, better puzzles and elements all around.
 
wow, talos principal looks pretty.

I'll reserve judgment until I'm done the witness, but so far the puzzles are ingenious to me. The fact that the interface for just about all the puzzles are the same, yet the nature of the puzzles are unique is what makes it special. I don't really care about an overarching coherent story here, I'm appreciating the game for the beauty, the well designed island, and the joy of solving the puzzles.

I am relatively inexperienced when it comes to games, however. I've played quake since the 90's, but only a handful of other games (none of which have been multiplayer).
 
Hello, just picked up one of these the other day. The last owner stated it would turn off after it got wamred up (30 minutes or so) any thoughts ? Took the case off and there is allot of crudy dust, want to continue disassembly but am worried about stored electricity, is there a bleeder resistor on the anode cap for these ?
 
JollyGreenJoint said:
Hello, just picked up one of these the other day. The last owner stated it would turn off after it got wamred up (30 minutes or so) any thoughts ? Took the case off and there is allot of crudy dust, want to continue disassembly but am worried about stored electricity, is there a bleeder resistor on the anode cap for these ?
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If you get a USB-TTL converter cable you can use WinDAS to check for error codes. I have one that had an issue that may or may not be relevant to yours, it involved a bad transistor that would overheat, causing the monitor to shut down automatically as designed. AFAIK there are bleeder circuits for all the HV components as per TCO'99.
 
Wow, thanks ! Saw windas mentioned a few times didn't know what it was, saw the port and the description in service manual assumed it was some proprietary thing.

Edit2: Whew GOT IT ! , was having trouble figuring out how to get the a board off. White plastic cup pulls off the back ! :D

Edit3: SUCCESS ! Disassembled the whole rear (without taking out the tube or the front chassis) cleaned the boards and interior, Broke the ribbon cable coming from the front control panel but was able to sand it down and re-insert. Put it all back together AND IT WORKED ! Was able to do a little testing, monitor did not shut down when it reached warmed state, probably have to do more testing but it looks like its working. Seeing some re-scan lines but they aren't horrible, probably needs to be calibrated and safety checklist run through. Don't have the money to take it somewhere to have that done so im probably going to sit on it until I can if ever :/ BUT IT WORKS !!! YAY !
 
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good stuff jolly. Before you did this, did it indeed shut off after ~30 min? (i know the owner said it did, but had you ever seen it do that?)
 
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