Feds Unlock iPhone 5C Used By San Bernardino Terrorist

Mike89 said:
Apple not willing to help fight terrorism is pretty fucked up to me all in the name of so called privacy. Glad the phone was cracked. Fuck Apple
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1/2 bent said:
You have some important shit to hide from the government dont you?
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So how's that view of the asshole in front of you? You seem to be missing the bigger picture.

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I'm sorry, why are we fighting over if it should be a felony or not for site to use https to secure data that it transmits and then encrypt said data on the other side before storing it in a database? Why do people think that encrypting personal data should be illegal?
 
Arbit3r said:
I doubt FBI will ever reveal to Apple what what used to crack in to it.
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I don't believe that they need to inform Apple how they did it. Just knowing it was done (if it was done) is all that is needed for Apple to assemble a new team to find out how. Money talks, too. They can buy the answer from someone-somewhere.

Apple could played the gate keeper in limiting what phones FBI could got in to now well they ATM have no say what phones can be cracked in to.
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Apple is now in a position to make their products even more secure (FBI proof!) and still not forced into working with/for the US GOV in the future. Win-Win.

Now FBI has a way in to Iphones and Apple pretty can't stop any future unlocking of the phones. SO in the End Apple played with a double edge sword from the start and well they cut them selves as know ppl worry about gov getting in to their "encrypted" phone.
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1. It could be a bluff. 2. It can be found and fixed/patched if true. The FBI just helped Apple make their products even more secure in the near future. I think Apple is in a great position now.
 
I'm betting the FBI had the backup plan for access, but was pushing this particular case as a testbed for trial by public opinion as well as legal precedent. When things weren't quite going as expected on both fronts they back peddled before the chance of it setting precedent not in their favor. This way they still have that avenue open to them in the future.
 
Unofficially, the story i have is that a minor walked into the fbi office off the street and showed them how to crack the iphone. I highly doubt the fbi will ever admit that.
 
Now everybody can be happy. Apple saves face by standing their ground and the Feds got what they wanted with no need to tell Apple how they did it. Win Win.
 
CreatedTheMultiverse said:
I don't believe that they need to inform Apple how they did it. Just knowing it was done (if it was done) is all that is needed for Apple to assemble a new team to find out how. Money talks, too. They can buy the answer from someone-somewhere.

Apple is now in a position to make their products even more secure (FBI proof!) and still not forced into working with/for the US GOV in the future. Win-Win.

1. It could be a bluff. 2. It can be found and fixed/patched if true. The FBI just helped Apple make their products even more secure in the near future. I think Apple is in a great position now.
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Fixing it is easy enough to do if there was some kind of software vulnerability that the FBI exploited.

The other possibility is that the FBI exploited some vulnerability in the hardware based security measures. Fixing it is tricky. The only way I could see to fix it would be to make the hardware exponentially more complex, which would probably mean making it exponentially more expensive.

Or move away from the hardware based security and fix the glaring hole in the software security scheme that the hardware is there to protect against: the short, low-entropy password that you use to unlock the phone. The way to fix that is to move to higher entropy biometric keys.
 
snowcrash said:
Now everybody can be happy. Apple saves face by standing their ground and the Feds got what they wanted with no need to tell Apple how they did it. Win Win.
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Unless you're an iPhone owner and just learned your device has a security flaw.
 
CreatedTheMultiverse said:
Twist: Third party is Apple out of the public eye.
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Yeah, my "theory" is that Apple basically agreed to help the Feds they just wanted some press as the defender of the common guy by protecting their piracy, and they wanted it public (to boost stock), and the Feds had to agree that it was a 3rd party who helped them hack the phone.

That or the i[hone really isn't secure.
 
Also, apples position was not that they did not want to hack the phone... it was that they wanted to be paid for their time. The fbi has 3300 other phones they want access to, and apple wants that government money. They used the publicity to try and make it look like they were standing up for our rights... which may have backfired somewhat becuase nobody likes sticking up for the suicide bomber types.
 
Macblastr said:
Also, apples position was not that they did not want to hack the phone... it was that they wanted to be paid for their time. The fbi has 3300 other phones they want access to, and apple wants that government money. They used the publicity to try and make it look like they were standing up for our rights... which may have backfired somewhat becuase nobody likes sticking up for the suicide bomber types.
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Lolwut? What kind of fantasy world are you living in? Lemme guess, "Apple is shit because they are shit!"
 
Extra-Titanian said:
I wonder how long it'll be until we find out there was nothing useful on it.
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We'll never know truthfully, it's not like information can't just be made up on the fly as needed to push forward whatever agenda is already in motion.

Everyone is now freaking out about this admission by the FBI but they're failing to realize it's an iPhone 5c running iOS 9 and things are different now with the iPhone 6 and newer models as well as devices running iOS 9.3 (and even 9.1, 9.2, and 9.2.1) - what worked for that iPhone 5c is pretty much guaranteed not to work for the newer models of the iPhone running newer versions of iOS.

And be assured that Apple is already revamping the security enclave and other aspects of the iPhone 7 because of this situation, potentially even making it impossible to do the NAND swaps that were probably utilized to some degree with this so-called "crack" that the FBI is talking about. Can't wait to see Apple create some new system that create some new method of tying the NAND chips to the hardware in a one-time hash that can't be duplicated or used more than once - there goes the idea of "just pull the chips, dupe 'em, and replace 'em as often as required."

This shit hasn't even really gotten started yet.
 
Macblastr said:
Also, apples position was not that they did not want to hack the phone... it was that they wanted to be paid for their time. The fbi has 3300 other phones they want access to, and apple wants that government money. They used the publicity to try and make it look like they were standing up for our rights... which may have backfired somewhat becuase nobody likes sticking up for the suicide bomber types.
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Right and because they have 3300 phones to crack, why stop there? They only want access to all the bad people's phones. Which is damn near everyone they come in contact with that doesn't work for them.

Nobody likes sticking up for suicide bomber and terrorists, but we also see the bigger picture in assisting the government in these types of capacity. You have to be willfully ignorant to think they wouldn't use whatever tools they could get from Apple to make their jobs easier.

Glad Apple stood on principle.
 
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They dropped the case for ONE reason. To prevent a precedent from being set in case they lost.

Now, it's a clean slate. The next time around, they can just sue again if needed.
 
Gavv said:
Right and because they have 3300 phones to crack, why stop there? They only want access to all the bad people's phones. Which is damn near everyone they come in contact with that doesn't work for them.

Nobody likes sticking up for suicide bomber and terrorists, but we also see the bigger picture in assisting the government in these types of capacity. You have to be willfully ignorant to think they wouldn't use whatever tools they could get from Apple to make their jobs easier.

Glad Apple stood on principle.
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Problem is....

Mike89 said:
Apple not willing to help fight terrorism is pretty fucked up to me all in the name of so called privacy. Glad the phone was cracked. Fuck Apple
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A lot of people feel like this guy /\ /\ /\ /\

I can see it from both sides.... they both have valid points... fact is the government is already so far up our asses i think its too little too late.
 
Macblastr said:
Problem is....




A lot of people feel like this guy /\ /\ /\ /\

I can see it from both sides.... they both have valid points... fact is the government is already so far up our asses i think its too little too late.
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They aren't both valid points. One is accurate and the other is based on bullshit.

Also, as far as the secret method to get into the phone, Apple already stated on the record that it was a relatively easy "fix" but they didn't want to do it. They didn't want to be in court every day unlocking every phone for every 2bit DA from San Diego to NYC to help them resolve their backlog of cases.

In retrospect, it would have been hilarious to me if Tim Cook had called the new iPhone 5SE the "Secure Edition" after he was talking about the feds and privacy during the launch.
 
Macblastr said:
Here's what it would cost Apple to help the FBI hack an iPhone

Thats my take on the whole situation.... apple wanted another revenue stream
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How did you manage to come up with the conclusion that a news website doing a *third party* cost analysis of how much it would cost Apple to "Apple just want another renevue stream"?

Please, enlighten us, so we can be convinced that you are not just hating Apple for the sake of hating it, completely disregarding reliable evidence disproving your point in favor of dodgy rumours that have nothing to do with your point and and use it anyway.
 
Am I the only one who feels like maybe the FBI didn't actually unlock it, they're just saying they did and will have claim to have found nothing because the whole work phone/only phone not destroyed thing to both get out of the setting the wrong precedent thing and also cast suspicion on Apple's security and possibly making them spend time looking for a vulnerability that doesn't actually exist? I mean if they come forward and say they found evidence of some sort of larger terrorist ring I might be more prone to believe maybe they did find a backdoor, but if all that ever comes of this was "yes we used some undisclosed vulnerability to open it and found nothing", I'm not so sure I really trust them.
 
steakman1971 said:
I wonder if they will let us know what they find (or don't) on the phone? If it is just a few selfies, I want the taxpayers to get a refund.
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They already told us there was nothing on the phone. If they'd gotten anything off the phone, they'd be giving that information a ticker tape parade down Broadway in New York City.
 
chenw said:
How did you manage to come up with the conclusion that a news website doing a *third party* cost analysis of how much it would cost Apple to "Apple just want another renevue stream"?

Please, enlighten us, so we can be convinced that you are not just hating Apple for the sake of hating it, completely disregarding reliable evidence disproving your point in favor of dodgy rumours that have nothing to do with your point and and use it anyway.
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its "revenue stream" not "renevue stream"... but very eloquent other than that.

First off, I have an iphone.... that kind of kills the whole you hate apple theory. (but in your defense the only reason i have an apple is because android completely screwed me with that whole lollipop update that made my badass phone useless and then made phones with no damn external storage)

second... so much anger.... less caffeine, please add more alcohol or mellowing drug of choice...

third... umm the post was just stating that i believe apple just wants to be paid for its time on the matter... so i dont understand the whole "nothing to do with your point"... my point is - in fact - the article in question... so actually the post is my point, which automatically proves my point, thereby rendering your assertion that "it has nothing to do with my point" - NULL.

Its just my take on the situation... maybe i am wrong... but... maybe... just maybe... i am right.
 
I hate Apple. I hate them and their users.



But Apple was right on the ball with this one. This was not about 'fighting terrorism', This was the government using 'the big scary "T" word' to set legal precedent to have unlimited backdoor access to digital devices.

"The USA would never try that!"

Yes, they damn well would.
 
Macblastr said:
its "revenue stream" not "renevue stream"... but very eloquent other than that.

First off, I have an iphone.... that kind of kills the whole you hate apple theory. (but in your defense the only reason i have an apple is because android completely screwed me with that whole lollipop update that made my badass phone useless and then made phones with no damn external storage)

second... so much anger.... less caffeine, please add more alcohol or mellowing drug of choice...

third... umm the post was just stating that i believe apple just wants to be paid for its time on the matter... so i dont understand the whole "nothing to do with your point"... my point is - in fact - the article in question... so actually the post is my point, which automatically proves my point, thereby rendering your assertion that "it has nothing to do with my point" - NULL.

Its just my take on the situation... maybe i am wrong... but... maybe... just maybe... i am right.
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Using a product and hating the company that makes the product are completely different things.

Using a product could also mean the product fits your usage better, but not necessarily agree with the philosophy/ethics/image/politics of the company.

Liking/Disliking a company also does not automatically lead to purchase or the lack there of.

EG I would most likely have prefered iOS over Android due to the way Apple have a tighter control over their operating system, but I don't have a single iOS product because none of the iOS product could remotely fit my definition of desired device. On a similar issue, the fact that I own Asus Android Padfone does not mean I endorse either Google or Asus as companies, but merely because the product that Asus offered and fit my needs happened to run on Android.

Hence, my view is, and has always been, Product purchase and company respect are not always hand in hand. In my case, they usually are not.

If you use products base on whether or not you hate the company, more power to you.

Reading your posts initially and missing a few words actually changed my interpretation of the posts, now that re-reading had been performed, the foot is squarely in my mouth.
 
chenw said:
Using a product and hating the company that makes the product are completely different things.

Using a product could also mean the product fits your usage better, but not necessarily agree with the philosophy/ethics/image/politics of the company.

Liking/Disliking a company also does not automatically lead to purchase or the lack there of.

EG I would most likely have prefered iOS over Android due to the way Apple have a tighter control over their operating system, but I don't have a single iOS product because none of the iOS product could remotely fit my definition of desired device. On a similar issue, the fact that I own Asus Android Padfone does not mean I endorse either Google or Asus as companies, but merely because the product that Asus offered and fit my needs happened to run on Android.

Hence, my view is, and has always been, Product purchase and company respect are not always hand in hand. In my case, they usually are not.

If you use products base on whether or not you hate the company, more power to you.

Reading your posts initially and missing a few words actually changed my interpretation of the posts, now that re-reading had been performed, the foot is squarely in my mouth.
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To add to that: I agree. I don't really like Nvidia, and I'm pretty firm with hating Intel. Yet my rig has both of those assholes represented.

Use=/=allegiance.
 
-Dragon- said:
Am I the only one who feels like maybe the FBI didn't actually unlock it, they're just saying they did and will have claim to have found nothing because the whole work phone/only phone not destroyed thing to both get out of the setting the wrong precedent thing and also cast suspicion on Apple's security and possibly making them spend time looking for a vulnerability that doesn't actually exist?
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Why would the FBI/GOV even want the whole entire world to know that there is any way into an iPhone (at all) if they were successful? Wouldn't they want that kept quiet (Or maybe that's just the CIA's/NSA's thing)? Unless, this info is false and only put out here to tarnish the security of the iPhone because of the way things went in the court of public opinion. Plus now Apple will be looking for a vulnerability that isn't really there and having customers/shareholders demanding answers at the same time. That or Apple got their good guy publicity (sfsuphysics mentioned this) and helped out the GOV behind the scenes and both sides avoided any finalized court ruling.

Either way we'll eventually find out more by how this continues to play out in the future.
 
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Extra-Titanian said:
I wonder how long it'll be until we find out there was nothing useful on it.
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Lots of dick pics. Terrorists have lots of free time to ponder the presentation of their dicks.

1/2 bent said:
If its the government I dont give a rats ass. If its some hacker then yes.
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Yes, we all know that all government workers are completely honest, and would never compromise the security of a citizen's information. That's why my postal worker periodically doesn't deliver anything for a few days, then all of a sudden I get deliveries on a sunday night, often including some of my neighbor's mail.

1/2 bent said:
REALLY.. If it helps convicting animals .
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That's good. There's a puppy that I'm sure is peeing on my new anodized rims that I want taken in and waterboarded until he barks a confession.
 
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Macblastr said:
Its just my take on the situation... maybe i am wrong... but... maybe... just maybe... i am right.
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How do you think you are even remotely close to correct?

Your claim is that Apple refused to unlock the phone because they wanted money from unlocking phones?
Aside from the fact that the order already clarified Apple would be fairly compensated, how does refusing to do the job result in them getting paid?
Your logic seems all over the place on this.
 
mope54 said:
How do you think you are even remotely close to correct?

Your claim is that Apple refused to unlock the phone because they wanted money from unlocking phones?
Aside from the fact that the order already clarified Apple would be fairly compensated, how does refusing to do the job result in them getting paid?
Your logic seems all over the place on this.
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Yeah, last I checked, the Gub'ment tried to make the whole thing about money, when Apple was just like "nope".
 
scobar said:
I have nothing to hide. I also have nothing to share. Do you care to share your online banking information?
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Your personal privacy is a fallacy anyhow. The sooner people learn that personal privacy does not exist in our future, the better off we will all be.
 
CaptNumbNutz said:
So how's that view of the asshole in front of you? You seem to be missing the bigger picture.

View attachment 1445
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Perfect!

This was NEVER about unlocking a phone. This was an attempt to weaken encryption and trample constitutional rights. The FBI has a very dark history of misusing power. They used this as a litmus test to gauge public sentiment using a vile tragedy to play on peoples fears and emotions; muting reason. Hidden in all the noise about this issue is that the FBI is now using the NSA database like its own personal google, with little to no guidelines. Secret court approves classified rule change on how FBI can use NSA data
 
Lith1um said:
Gut instinct is that the feds had the ability the entire time, but they didn't want to reveal that they had the ability so they tried getting apple to play ball. They've probably been doing it all along, at will.
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You better believe they could have just handed it over to the NSA to probably do the same thing this 3rd Party Israeli firm did. They were just wanting to try and set a legal precedent to make it a revolving door going forward.
 
Those saying you have nothing to hide, you miss the whole point of encryption. Encryption is to keep the bad guys out! Look at all of the breaches, peoples' social security numbers, credit cards, bank accounts, etc. are being compromised on a daily basis. Look at the massive OPM hack. Every federal worker's information put in enemy hands. The whole purpose of that is to keep it away from people that shouldn't have access to that. Justice Scalia said it best:

There is nothing new in the realization that the Constitution sometimes insulates the criminality of a few in order to protect the privacy of us all.
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I'm all for the feds trying to break it and going through the legal forensic process to gain information. But, having the Government tell Apple come out and undermine millions of peoples' privacy right, that we enabled, by creating software to break it is not legal.


I'm sure we'll see Apple put in whole disk encryption on the device where you have to put in a PIN into a separate TPM prior to OS bootup.
 
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