Rylan
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My wife came home to her laptop automatically installing Windows 10 on Friday. Nobody was home to accept any prompts for the installation.
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How To Refuse Microsoft's Windows 10 Update
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techie81
[H]ard for [H]ardware
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GWX Control Panel is where it's at. Light and easy to use.
Sorry, but the automatic installations are happening without user consent. My dad was upgraded during the week this week from Windows 7 to 10 overnight. He came into his office in the morning and found that he had been upgraded. Sure, I suppose at that point there's an EULA that has to be agreed to, but as a fairly basic computer user in his mid 60's, he doesn't really know that there's an option NOT to click OK when all he wants to do is start his work day and check email on his computer. Of course, I warned/trained him not to upgrade and to deny it if it tries, but given how hard Microsoft is pushing this he was outmatched....
The bad thing for him is that his contacts database is in a DOS based program that's over 20 years old that I had running under XP Mode in Windows 7 (as it simply won't run on a 64bit OS). Of course, the "upgrade" entirely broke/removed XP Mode requiring me to spend a few hours getting a new VM stood up to run the program. After a few other usability things were fixed (i.e. had to do some registry editing to fix Outlook 2010 opening links to Internet Explorer 11), he's seems to be back up and running, but it was a PITA because it was 100% unplanned and unapproved.
Modred189
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This is kind of the antithesis of automatic.
I don't blame Microsoft for users who don't read the screen before them, age or attention paid included.
As far as he knows though, once you upgrade to a new version of Windows, there's no going back. That's the reality that he's lived in until now (as upgrades have historically been a one way trip to the new version or a BSOD) - he would associate clicking "no" with potentially messing something up or not being able to do anything with his computer until the whole thing could be redone.
Yes, Microsoft is covering their rear end with mice-type, but no, they're not being fair how they are going about socially engineering folks to upgrade to Windows 10, especially those that will lose critical functionality as a result of the upgrade.
[ManOfHeatless] Your wife just hates Microsoft and making it up because that could never happen. [/]
Yes blame the victim. "LOL you can click Upgrade Now or Upgrade Tonight, you had a choice! LOL"
Modred189
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But it appears that no matter what MS had done it wouldn't have worked. YOU told him not to upgrade and he still did. If he's not going to listen to YOU, why would he listen to ANYTHING MS said?
But it was till NOT automated. Period.
Which is not what anyone is claiming.
Look, unless you guys are claiming that MS is sending out special executables ONLY to some people where the update installs automatically, it's just not automatic.
If WIN10 ends up on someone's computer that doesn't want it, PEBCAK. Pure and simple.
Nobody needs to claim anything when MS already admitted that automatic installs are happening in some cases.
I wouldn't be so dismissive. It seems like >something< happened recently to spawn the topic direction in this thread, this high participation thread on reddit titled "PSA: Windows 7 computers are being reported as automatically starting the Windows 10 upgrade without permission." and I've seen some friends of friends on Facebook complaining about the same thing.
I wouldn't doubt that Microsoft is really pushing to upgrade all their computers.
I moved all my computers to Win 8.1 Enterprise just to stop getting the stupid Win 10 update prompts.
I wonder how many Win 10 upgrades were done, where the customer just wanted to get rid of the prompts. Like how many Win 10 upgrades were legitimate customers who wanted it.
I wonder how many Win 10 upgrades were done, where the customer just wanted to get rid of the prompts. Like how many Win 10 upgrades were legitimate customers who wanted it.
athenian200
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I remember when I wanted Windows 10 right after it came out, I basically had to sign up with my e-mail address and wait for Microsoft to tell me my download was ready. I had to agree to several boxes saying that, yes, I did want Windows 10.
I have one computer that still has Windows 7 for compatibility reasons, although I haven't needed it yet. It has told me that Windows 10 was ready to install if I wanted it, but I haven't told it to go ahead with the installation yet. I should leave that computer on and see if it upgrades me without prompting. It's my last Windows 7 machine, but I'm not worried because all my stuff is compatible with Windows 10 anyway. Everything that's not compatible with 10 pretty much needs Windows XP or less anyway, and I have plenty of XP VMs.
It's worth noting that if you don't upgrade now, they're not going to let you upgrade for free after June. So I'd think pretty hard about refusing this update, because you only have two more months to go with Windows 10 for free. If you're a gamer, you might be sorry about missing out on DirectX 12 and find yourself shelling out for it anyway. I'm not terribly worried about Microsoft monitoring me, because I have a Linux partition I use whenever I don't want Microsoft to know what I'm doing.
Not to say that it's alright for them to force the upgrade, because that could break applications and certain use cases without the user's consent, but overall I wouldn't say that Windows 10 is a bad thing for most users.
I have one computer that still has Windows 7 for compatibility reasons, although I haven't needed it yet. It has told me that Windows 10 was ready to install if I wanted it, but I haven't told it to go ahead with the installation yet. I should leave that computer on and see if it upgrades me without prompting. It's my last Windows 7 machine, but I'm not worried because all my stuff is compatible with Windows 10 anyway. Everything that's not compatible with 10 pretty much needs Windows XP or less anyway, and I have plenty of XP VMs.
It's worth noting that if you don't upgrade now, they're not going to let you upgrade for free after June. So I'd think pretty hard about refusing this update, because you only have two more months to go with Windows 10 for free. If you're a gamer, you might be sorry about missing out on DirectX 12 and find yourself shelling out for it anyway. I'm not terribly worried about Microsoft monitoring me, because I have a Linux partition I use whenever I don't want Microsoft to know what I'm doing.
Not to say that it's alright for them to force the upgrade, because that could break applications and certain use cases without the user's consent, but overall I wouldn't say that Windows 10 is a bad thing for most users.
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According to Microsoft's press releases whenever they claim another big round number milestone, all of them. That's right, all of those confused end users seeing "Upgrade Now or Upgrade Tonight!" buttoms and just click anywhere trying to get rid of the pop-up nagware.. are "flocking to it". Utter fucking comedy.
Modred189
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Citation required.
WADR to Reddit, i give the masses there about as much credit as a cheeseburger.
Look, between my home and the homes of friends and family who look to me as their IT instructor, there's about 15 computers that are not going to upgrade to Win 10. I didn't screw around with any of the installable blockers etc, as it's my experience that blocking windows updates usually doesn't end well. Of those the lack of upgrade is for a variety of reasons: Some are Vaios which Sony and the new Vaio company have instructed users NOT to upgrade; some are because of legacy apps; some are simply because I know the user, and i don't want to screw around with giving them a multi-hour class over the course of a week (over the telephone) on the differences between 7 and 10.
NONE of those computers has automatically upgraded to Windows 10. Period. None have tried. None have suddenly appeared upgraded after shutting it down over night. NONE.
SO, while I completely agree that MS is pushing, via the taskbar icon and marketing etc, users to upgrade to Windows 10 (for which I DO NOT blame them), they are NOT doing automatic upgrades. I guarantee anytime someone claims that is what happened, it's because they clicked a bunch of "ok"s on progressive screens without reading the popups (and we all know even us [H] members are guilty of that once in a while, screw you McAfee from Adobe installers).
Unless someone can SHOW me a computer doing it without user GUIDANCE, or show me that there are different versions of the upgrade with different code for such purposes, there is ZERO evidence that this is happening automatically.
None.
Just a bunch of FUD and
Look guys. There are multiple reported cases of Windows 10 automatically installing without consent. You can do a 3-second search on google and validate these findings. Good grief! Here, let me help you... you know... because it was SO hard... LOL
Google
Modred189
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NO!
Look, even back, DURING THE FIRST FEW DAYS of Windows 10 availability, when the optional update was checked,(which was, iirc, fixed within a week):
1- If you don't review the optional updates, that's on you, YOU clicked "Install" on those updates.
2- The process STILL required user intervention during the course of the update and could be cancelled at multiple points.
Again, with all the dumbass users that I've worked with (friends and family), those that I have told NOT to upgrade have successfully avoided it. And all I told them was, "Don't upgrade when Windows asks you to." Apparently they were capable of figuring out how to do that. And windows 10 has never "automatically" installed for any of them.
So, no, Windows 10 is not "automatically" installing. And it never has.
You don't need to. My laptop automatically downloaded and installed Win10 back in July.
Originally, I was a bit pissed (as it also blew my tethering cap), but 10 has grown on me.
NO!
Look, even back, DURING THE FIRST FEW DAYS of Windows 10 availability, when the optional update was checked,(which was, iirc, fixed within a week):
1- If you don't review the optional updates, that's on you, YOU clicked "Install" on those updates.
2- The process STILL required user intervention during the course of the update and could be cancelled at multiple points.
Again, with all the dumbass users that I've worked with (friends and family), those that I have told NOT to upgrade have successfully avoided it. And all I told them was, "Don't upgrade when Windows asks you to." Apparently they were capable of figuring out how to do that. And windows 10 has never "automatically" installed for any of them.
So, no, Windows 10 is not "automatically" installing. And it never has.
So your limited audience of people (5? 10? 20?) gives valid proof that no machine in the world has ever automatically installed win10? LOL. I guess you didn't even bother to click the link or do a search? No hope...
So you expect us to research each and every single update? Give me a break. Microshaft doesn't even put the info in the updates themselves. You have to do research to find out. And even then they don't explain it in clear English. Just this last batch of updates... they didn't even release the information on what they did until AFTER everyone's computers had already updated!!! (The second day after release!)... Really?!
Modred189
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Actually, yes. Like I said, unless there is some evidence that MS is sending out multiple versions of the update (some that "automatically" install and some that don't), then those 20 people reflect the same update that EVERYONE received. If someone can give me evidence that there is an update out there that automatically went through the Windows 10 installation process without requiring a EULA agreement and the other click-through boxes I've hit on every single Windows 10 install I've ever done, then I'm more than willing to hold MS accountable for hat kind of crap.
But no such evidence exists.
And you don't have to go through every install. Just one. Find me ONE Win 10 update file/installer that does it automatically. Just one.
They never have. And yea, I kind of hate it that the updates within the Windows Update app don't give specific changelog like descriptions of what they do, but let's be real honest here, the number of people that would actually READ them if available would be negligible.
The nature of this conversation provides proof: people clicked on and agreed to the Windows 10 update (likely multiple times!) without reading it. I mean, hell, the Ars article from your link shows what the update screen looked like:
If people were incapable or uninterested in reading the TITLE of the update, what makes you think they would read a more in-depth description?
nvgrim
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Still doesnt stop the fact that it auto downloads the installer on your pc without any notification. And it has happened to me a few times. Happened when the first time this shit show of an update cycle happened and then again this time around. And no i didnt install any updates and i run the DWS utility that uninstalls and hides all annoying updates. Somehow though the 5583 update became unhidden and wanted me to install it again. Nice try MSActually, yes. Like I said, unless there is some evidence that MS is sending out multiple versions of the update (some that "automatically" install and some that don't), then those 20 people reflect the same update that EVERYONE received. If someone can give me evidence that there is an update out there that automatically went through the Windows 10 installation process without requiring a EULA agreement and the other click-through boxes I've hit on every single Windows 10 install I've ever done, then I'm more than willing to hold MS accountable for hat kind of crap.
But no such evidence exists.
And you don't have to go through every install. Just one. Find me ONE Win 10 update file/installer that does it automatically. Just one.
They never have. And yea, I kind of hate it that the updates within the Windows Update app don't give specific changelog like descriptions of what they do, but let's be real honest here, the number of people that would actually READ them if available would be negligible.
The nature of this conversation provides proof: people clicked on and agreed to the Windows 10 update (likely multiple times!) without reading it. I mean, hell, the Ars article from your link shows what the update screen looked like:
If people were incapable or uninterested in reading the TITLE of the update, what makes you think they would read a more in-depth description?
Modred189
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Well, hell. That's not the same thing as automatically installing Windows 10 AT ALL. And many devices do that these days. All Apple products do. Android lets you choose the time and date for the download, but it nags the shit out of you do do so. It's essentially SOP for the industry.
But that is NOT automatic installation.
The automatic installation will happen if you leave your computer on 24/7 and it doesn't go into power saving mode (it's configured this way for remote access purposes for him). That's how it got delivered to my dad. The notices that you're "supposed" to get were probably present when he was not there. Yes, his computer is set to automatically apply updates as well (as if they aren't, they won't get done and then I'll be removing cryptolocker on a weekly basis).
The other thing to note, is on my daily driver right now, running Windows 8.1 with update, it tries really hard to trick me into upgrading. I open the Windows update control panel window and it asks me to upgrade to Windows 10 in a large font. Then in a small font, it says "click here to view other update options". When you do that, the important tab of updates has nothing pre-selected (that's fine), but then in the optional tab, Upgrade to Windows 10 is there and is already preselected (there has NEVER been a time before now when Microsoft automatically checked boxes in optional update lists). So, if I just checked the regular updates and then hit install, I'd be off to Windows 10 world (which almost happened a couple times until I figured out what was happening).
Actually, yes. Like I said, unless there is some evidence that MS is sending out multiple versions of the update (some that "automatically" install and some that don't), then those 20 people reflect the same update that EVERYONE received. If someone can give me evidence that there is an update out there that automatically went through the Windows 10 installation process without requiring a EULA agreement and the other click-through boxes I've hit on every single Windows 10 install I've ever done, then I'm more than willing to hold MS accountable for hat kind of crap.
But no such evidence exists.
And you don't have to go through every install. Just one. Find me ONE Win 10 update file/installer that does it automatically. Just one.
They never have. And yea, I kind of hate it that the updates within the Windows Update app don't give specific changelog like descriptions of what they do, but let's be real honest here, the number of people that would actually READ them if available would be negligible.
The nature of this conversation provides proof: people clicked on and agreed to the Windows 10 update (likely multiple times!) without reading it. I mean, hell, the Ars article from your link shows what the update screen looked like:
If people were incapable or uninterested in reading the TITLE of the update, what makes you think they would read a more in-depth description?
Again, you ignored the reports of multiple instances of automatic updates in a google search. I guess we are done here. Keep your hand over your eyes.
I personally have witnessed WIndows 10 downloading itself multiple times on the same computers in my own house. I guess you would probably call me a liar on that if it never happened to your ~20(?) people. If you haven't seen something personally, it never happened to anyone? hahaha
I have worked in IT for 20+ years and have managed environments of 20,000+ computers. You can't pull one over on me.
Modred189
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Download != Install. I'm not sure how much clearer I can be.
And MS fixed the optional update checkbox back in October... Microsoft says it will no longer check Windows 10 upgrade option by default in Windows Update
I still maintain that if a computer is upgraded to Windows 10, it's because the user instructed it to be. David_Schroth, fwiw, I can remember multiple times that optional updates have been offered and checked in the past. Driver updates etc (usually networking)...
I was making a different point. Hint: I said "we are done here". It seems as though you pick and choose what you read. Like the google search I linked you continue to ignore. I'm not sure how much clearer I can be... Fail on reading comprehension. I'm done here. Congrats.
nvgrim
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I think downloading a 3GB folder unbenounced to me is kind of shitty, granted i have fast internet so i didnt notice it. But my boot drive is a smaller SSD and thats where it store the WindowsBT folder. I dont want that shit on there so why download it for me. And the sad thing is, if i didnt have hidden folders shown i would have never noticed it.
nvgrim
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as much as kotaku sucks, here is another instance of auto installing
http://kotaku.com/my-pc-upgraded-to-windows-10-without-asking-then-immed-1764756440
http://kotaku.com/my-pc-upgraded-to-windows-10-without-asking-then-immed-1764756440
Modred189
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Can't agree more. Auto-downloading stuff that size sucks, and has screwed me on my work iPhone several times now.
Did... did you miss the part where I pulled an image from an article several items down on your linked google search. And mentioned that's where I pulled it from?
I mean, hell, the Ars article from your link shows what the update screen looked like:
If people were incapable or uninterested in reading the TITLE of the update, what makes you think they would read a more in-depth description?
No, I read a few of the links and I understand what happened completely. And I've referenced it several times here: MS set the box to autocheck for like the first week and then reverted it (several places they claimed it was a mistake, I think we can speculate as to whether it was a PR or a coding mistake). Anyone unlucky enough to have auto-updates checked AND in the first wave of updates (a small number) AND left their computers in the correct state would have received it. Again, that was by THEIR decision. They explicitly told MS to give them ALL THE UPDATES, no matter what when they set those settings.
But even then, that's such a minute number of people that it just doesn't apply to these sweeping claims of automatically-installing Windows 10 upgrades. Don't fall for the tech echo chamber on the internet. A few loud people can cause a real rukus where no problem exists.
nvgrim
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I didnt accept any download though, even that screen grab that shows windows 10, i right clicked and hid that. I actually did that when this shit happened the first time. I also have auto updates off, i only have it set to check but i choose what to download and install. Also when this crap first happened i removed all the updates that cause it, namely the 5583. I installed DWS Lite which removes and hides those updates including the GWX panel. Everything was fine for a while then i saw articles about Win 10 auto installing again and then a day or two later i saw the GWX panel again and sure enough the WindowsBT folder was there. Unless they are hiding it in another update or something then idk how it got on there. I ran the DWS tool again and then deleted the WindowsBT folder and i havent had problems since then. But its only a matter of time they do this again to bump adoption rates so they can show investors how fast people are upgrading to win 10.
Modred189
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So... it sounds like you are upset with a third party program's inability to block the update? I'm not sure how this is MS's fault, nor how this constitutes an automatic installation. As MS finds bugs in the update, they are going to roll out new versions of it. That's a GOOD thing. So DWS tool wasn't written to deal with that. I don't think that's MS's problem.
That said, I think I've been clear that I am not a fan of companies automatically downloading updates, particularly new OS revisions, without asking as it chews through disk space on what can sometimes be small storage devices.
Then why is the checkbox on my daily driver still checked every time I load Windows Update?
Modred189
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Why would I know? But from every indication on every search I did, that is exactly what was done.
But all of the articles date back to October of last year, AND the situation was predicated upon you registering for the update when the pop up first appeared on systems.
This is what I mean: Do you see how many things the USER had to do to cause any of these possibilities to happen?
Yet again, picking and choosing what you want to read that only goes with your limited experience. No wonder you think you are smarter than everyone else. I guess all of the articles above that which state win10 auto-installs don't count? LOL
You really should change your self-omniscience description from "I'm Smarter Than You"...
nvgrim
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Its not really a program that actively blocks the updates, it more or less and automation program that uninstall and hides updates and adds IP's to the host file. I have hidden and uninstalled the 5583 update, yet it still comes back and last week i got the option to install windows 10. I know that if i had automatic updates turned on i would have windows 10 on my machine without me asking. If there was a bug fix for an update wouldn't you think they would release it as a new KB and not the same one?
ManofGod
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The automatic update of Windows 10 seems extremely random from what I have been experiencing. I wonder what set of prerequisites causes this to happen. Yes, it is random because otherwise, everyone single eligible computer would have had it occur already.
That was last year though. I am thinking this time around was not a mistake or at least, not a surprise to them that it has happened. Now, Windows 10 is definitely worth it and no, they are not desperate but, Windows 10 is not worth it in every circumstance such as when a business needs to remain where they are at.
Well, we will see what happens but at least they are providing an option, unlike phone providers that typically do nothing of the sort.
That was last year though. I am thinking this time around was not a mistake or at least, not a surprise to them that it has happened. Now, Windows 10 is definitely worth it and no, they are not desperate but, Windows 10 is not worth it in every circumstance such as when a business needs to remain where they are at.
Well, we will see what happens but at least they are providing an option, unlike phone providers that typically do nothing of the sort.
nvgrim
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I beleive its still random, but i think they released something that unhides the KB5583 update which allows the download and install if windows 10. I have automatic updates off and when i did a scan i saw that update was available and so was the option of installing windows 10 and sure enough i had the GWX panel and the windowsBT folder on my pc without me allowing anything....
DocFaustus
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I have been closing those nag screens for months now. Pretty SOP for running the machine anymore. I promise no popups were visible on the screen or were clicked on naively. I will concede that an accidental click or enter is plausible. The game froze first, and I assumed that the update caused the freeze, but maybe the freeze happened and the enter or click was accepted on a popup window hiding behind the frozen game. I haven't heard of enters or clicks working like this though.
To the "several steps that require user intervention" No. There were none. I didn't confirm anything, and I didn't configure anything. When I turned my computer back on it kept on upgrading and only AFTER windows 10 was installed did it give me the option to accept or decline the EULA.
Damage was done at that point. I accepted the ELUA and I am now running Windows 10. If I like it, it will stay. Otherwise, I will just install windows 7 again.
Modred189
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Remember, the revert option has been pretty well recieved, so you don't have to go through the reinstall, AND I think, you won't get any more nags...