FBI Director Admits Apple Encryption Case Could Set Legal Precedent

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Putting the whole issue of legal precedent aside for a moment, why doesn't the FBI just have someone else crack the phone? John McAfee (speaking of crack) said he could do it, so why not use him or another 3rd party?

The director of the FBI has conceded that future judges will look to his battle with Apple as a precedent for law enforcement access to locked or encrypted mobile devices, the first time the government has conceded that the implications of the case stretch beyond an investigation into the San Bernardino terrorist attacks.
 
No reason not to.

So the whole reason for pushing Apple on this is for the legal precedent.
 
xinco said:
No reason not to.

So the whole reason for pushing Apple on this is for the legal precedent.
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You can't say that based on this statement. It doesn't mean the case at it's simplest doesn't stand on it's own. It means what he said, that this case could set a precedent. Of course there is another almost identical in New York that could do the exact same thing and that Judge is at least considering the All Writs Act and if it truly does empower him to order a similar action from Apple.
 
As for using a 3rd party, there are issues in that, even greater issues then going to Apple. Face it, going to Apple is the "right" way to do it. It's up front, out in the open, it's out there for all of us to debate. We all have our view points and concerns.

But for the FBI, hacking it themselves is perhaps their job to do. But they claim they have failed and can't do it. But the short take on this is what happens if they screw it up and lose the data from the phone? Someone has to answer for that poor judgement and since they just got through admitting that they screwed up resenting the iCloud Password, a second failure of even greater proportions is not going to look good at all. It's much safer to sit back and let the court case take it's course and not be help personally responsible for trashing the phone's data.
 
Just read that Apple filed a motion to vacate the unlock order. This drama is too big for just popcorn. Time to order a pizza. :D
 
No one has said they agree with me, but I still think Apple is just stalling in California hoping the Judge in New York rules that he doesn't have the power under the All Writs Act to order Apple to unlock that phone.
 
They should ask NSA (what else is their collection of supercomputers for?) for help and stop bothering device/OS makers.
 
xinco said:
No reason not to.

So the whole reason for pushing Apple on this is for the legal precedent.
Click to expand...

The precedence this case will set is sooooo much bigger than just Apple it's... Really, really, Scary.

At least Apple can afford the very best in legal defense, if that really means anything against such a heavy handed government attack.
 
lcpiper said:
No one has said they agree with me, but I still think Apple is just stalling in California hoping the Judge in New York rules that he doesn't have the power under the All Writs Act to order Apple to unlock that phone.
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Tim Cook said that he's willing to take the case to the Supreme Court. I suppose he could be stalling for time and just lying about it, but his stated plan sounds entirely believable.
 
Steve said:
Putting the whole issue of legal precedent aside for a moment, why doesn't the FBI just have someone else crack the phone? John McAfee (speaking of crack) said he could do it, so why not use him or another 3rd party?
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I think you know why: Its not about Apple unlocking one phone, the FBI wants to set legal precedent so that ALL companies HAVE to allow governmental de-encryption backdoors. It was NEVER about this one phone.
 
KazeoHin said:
I think you know why: Its not about Apple unlocking one phone, the FBI wants to set legal precedent so that ALL companies HAVE to allow governmental de-encryption backdoors. It was NEVER about this one phone.
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And this is exactly what this is all about. I hate Apple to the core but in this case I am all for Apple winning this, I am in the Apple camp on this one.
 
Azphira said:
I'm not, I don't keep my privacy on public servers.
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This is nothing about public servers. This is about the cell phone you have with you every single day being personal private information or governmentally accessible information.

And it's not really an Apple issue either. Whatever happens here will affect all smart phones.
 
DocSavage said:
This is nothing about public servers. This is about the cell phone you have with you every single day being personal private information or governmentally accessible information.

And it's not really an Apple issue either. Whatever happens here will affect all smart phones.
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Android is probably already screwed. It will accept a keyboard automatically, usually (hopefully with encrypted contents this feature is locked out, I wouldn't assume it was). And the firmware is likely often open source or farmed out to people who have little to gain and everything to lose if they piss off the feds. Using a short numeric unlock code on an android would be a mistake, imho, if you want to keep the contents private beyond a casual intruder.
 
kRoWQUT2


suck it, FBI.
 
Having a company do something that's a flip of a switch in terms of configuring something ok, fine.
Forcing a company to create new software to do something it was never intended to do, very bad. It doesn't matter the reason.
I normally dislike Apple and their products, but i hope they win.
 
Armisael said:
Tim Cook said that he's willing to take the case to the Supreme Court. I suppose he could be stalling for time and just lying about it, but his stated plan sounds entirely believable.
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It's a grand statement, but that assumes a higher court is willing to challenge Judge Pym's order. Tim Cook can't "push it higher all on his own." All he can do is appeal the ruling but if a higher court won't accept his appeal as valid, the ruling stands.
 
Rebel44 said:
They should ask NSA (what else is their collection of supercomputers for?) for help and stop bothering device/OS makers.
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NSA has no authority over this. This is not a foreign intelligence issue and so far, there is no evidence of foreign involvement, therfore it's domestic. Besides, this is all Apple's own doing. Apple decide to re-engineer their products in a way that makes warranted legal access to the data on them "impossible". Of course the government has an issue with that, and now Apple is going to feel the pain.
 
Yakk said:
The precedence this case will set is sooooo much bigger than just Apple it's... Really, really, Scary.

At least Apple can afford the very best in legal defense, if that really means anything against such a heavy handed government attack.
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This stuff about a precedent is bullshit meant to have the exact effect it's having, to scare the ignorant.

There is no precedent concerning privacy, the owner has agreed to allow Apple to crack the phone.

There is no precedent with the use of the All Writs Act, just because the government has the ability to compel a business or person to assist them "when legally warranted" it doesn't mean they can ask them to do something illegal, or even unduely burdensome, nor does it in any leap of logic allow foreign governments to ask the same assistance of our businesses. Now if China asks Apple to write code for the phones they sell in China, that's between China and Apple and a risk they run pursuing business in China the same as it's always been, nothing new.

As for creating some terrible vulnerability, according to Apple's marketing campaign and claims, everything before the iPhone has been vulnerable ... for years ... the world hasn't fallen into anarchy.

I want you to consider a world where everyone has perfect protection from government access to records and data even with a warrant. Now I want you to think about all the times where us little people need to prove that someone is fucking us.

You think it's bad now, imagine the alternative Apple is trying to give us.

Be careful what you wish for.
 
DocSavage said:
This is nothing about public servers. This is about the cell phone you have with you every single day being personal private information or governmentally accessible information.

And it's not really an Apple issue either. Whatever happens here will affect all smart phones.
Click to expand...

No, whatever happens here effects everything, all stored data, all records. Your view is too limited, your focus too narrow. See my post above and give it some more thought.
 
lcpiper said:
No, whatever happens here effects everything, all stored data, all records. Your view is too limited, your focus too narrow. See my post above and give it some more thought.
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People shred documents all the freaking time. Or like our government, they just redact the documents. Or the hard drives crash and the backups disappear. This just gives us the same protections.
 
vinciblegod said:
Man, many people love to be vocal about hating apple.
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I live in America, a country that (at least for now) let's me like or dislike any company I choose. I think Apple products are not worth the money they ask and I have no desire to be forced into a walled garden for all of my media needs. It has nothing to do with anything other than I don't see the value and don't like a lot of things the company does. I'm similarly unhappy with Microsoft, which is why I'm moving my systems to Linux.
 
There's at least 30 cases pending where Apple was requested to deliver access similar to this one and they refused. Of course they chose this one because saying it involves national security and terrorists gets more press than trying to break into some drug dealer or thief's phone.

If you were the FBI, who would you want to sway? a circuit court judge or congress?
 
DocSavage said:
People shred documents all the freaking time. Or like our government, they just redact the documents. Or the hard drives crash and the backups disappear. This just gives us the same protections.
Click to expand...

So by your thinking, the only people that ever lose a court case or go to prison over records are the ones so stupid they just give them up?

The only time documents get redacted and are accepted that way are one, if the redacted information is "protected" and/or not pertinent to the case or information request.

No, what this does is effectively destroy our ability to ever prove that anyone is fucking us over ever again.

You know if Apple was right and without perfect encryption and perfect privacy, that we are all screwed, well we have never every had it before so please explain.

You know, because we share common interests and many of you guys have some knowledge and some basic IT skills, I try and give you all the benefit of the doubt that you can think for yourself. But there are some of you that just seem determined to prove me wrong.

That cop in New York sums this up pretty damn well when he says that no records or data should be beyond the react of a legal warrant. The reverse what Apple is telling us we must have, a world were our government, our courts, and our own lawyers will not be able to gain access to any data or records no matter how badly we need them.

You guys and a lot of other people better get your heads screwed on straight before you fuck us all right good.

Our government is not as bad as you so popularly claim it is. If it were, we wouldn't be having these conversations at all.
 
I'd like to thank Apple and Snowden for being captains of fucking obvious and making it easier for terrorists to kill people.
 
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