New and looking for some advice

  • Thread starter Deleted member 289973
  • Start date
D

Deleted member 289973

Guest
Hey everyone, I'm Jonathan from Asheville, NC. I'm looking to build a gaming PC but I've never done it before and a coworker suggested I post here on this forum. I'm kinda gearing towards a SFF computer, as I want to make it similar to a gaming console. I saw the sticky with questions so I copied and pasted them here with my answers.

1. What will you be doing with this PC? Gaming, Photoshop (or other intensive programs), Web browsing, strictly HTPC/Playback, etc. (If you have multiple things you want to do with the system, make sure you rank them from most important to least important).
Almost exclusively gaming (via steam) - everything else I can do on a 2-in-1 tablet

2. Will you be overclocking? (If so, are you looking to watercool?)
No

3. What's your budget? Are tax and shipping included in this budget? Is your budget flexible? Is cost a driving factor in component selection?
Flexible, I'd like to keep it around $1000 if possible, but this is not a hard limit

4. Where do you live? Do you have any big B&M (brick and mortar) computer chains nearby (e.g. Microcenter, Fry's, etc)?
There is a BestBuy, otherwise I'll probably have to order everything online

5. What exact parts do you need for that budget? CPU, RAM, case, etc. The word "Everything" is not a valid answer. Please list out all the parts you'll need (especially if you will need 3.5" hard drives or expansion cards as these may restrict case options).
CPU, RAM, motherboard, SSD, video card, case, power supply, not sure what else I might need (sound card, maybe?)

6. If reusing any parts, what parts will you be reusing? Please be especially specific about the power supply. For reused parts, list brands, model #s, and, if applicable, firmware revisions.
None, building from scratch

7. What specific features do you need in a motherboard? RAID? Thunderbolt? Crossfire or SLI support? How many USB 3.0 and SATA 6Gb/s? etc. Which is more important, size of the system or having the particular feature? Make sure you indicate *required* vs. *wanted* for each feature you list.
REQUIRED: at least 2 USB 2.0, HDMI
WANTED: 2 USB 3.0, but this isn't a big deal


8. What resolution output do you need? 4k playback, 1080p playback, etc for HTPC or give a vertical/horizontal resolution for gaming SFF rigs. Do you need multiple monitor output?
4K/UHD - I'll be using a Vizio UHD TV for the screen, only need single screen output

9. Does this system need to fit into a particular space and do you need an optical drive? Think entertainment center shelves, closet space, rackmount, etc. Many modern SFF cases have either removed the optical drive or have been constructed so that removing the ODD increases the configuration possibilities immensely.
I want to fit it on a shelf on my entertainment center, basically like a console. I don't need an optical drive

10. How comfortable are you with custom case design/modification and electrical wiring? What tools do you have (Screwdrivers/Leatherman, Drill, Dremel, Metal snips, Soldering Iron, Bending Brake, CNC/Welding machines/Plasma cutter, etc...)?
I'm not familiar or comfortable with it at all

11. How important is the noise/silence of this sytem? HTPCs typically want to be quiet while all-out SFF gaming rigs don't care
Not too important, but I don't want something that is extremely loud

12. How mobile does this system need to be? Need a carrying handle or carrying straps? Is weight important (carry-on bag, etc)? Water cooling quick disconnects, etc?
Not very mobile, it will stay on the entertainment shelf 99% of the time

13. Do you already have a legit and reusable/transferable OS key/license? If yes, what OS? Is it 32bit or 64bit? Remember that OEM copies of Win7 have issues with new motherboards
I have a legit Windows 10 license, not sure if it's transferable though

14. When do you plan on building/buying the PC? Immediately, in a couple weeks, 3-5 years?
As soon as possible

I appreciate the help. I'm really not familiar with computer parts beyond the basics, and I've never tried to build one before. But I hope I can put together a really cool machine.
Thanks,
Jonathan
 
Give me a few to get something together, but that's doable other than the 4K thing (on your budget). Thankfully, most 4K TVs do a good job of upscaling 1080P content, so you should be fine, you just won't be able to run native resolution for most games. Do be aware that insofar as I know all Vizio 4K TVs are 4:2:2 chroma only, not 4:4:4, which means they don't display a full color range for PC use; this can make text blurry on the desktop, but shouldn't affect you in most games. To be clear, it'll play 4K video fine, just not (all) games.

Is your Windows 10 license from a OEM PC/laptop (Dell/HP/etc) or something you built? If it's OEM it won't reactivate on the new machine, more than likely. If it's custom, you may be able to re-use it.

I'll keep updating this post as I work until you reply, then go from there.

EDIT1: Do you have a mouse/keyboard/controller? If not, is that included in your budget?

Researching now -- I haven't tried to put a SSF together in a while.

I'll lay some groundwork -- You're looking at a 6600K Skylake i5 CPU, Z170 mATX/ITX board, probably a GTX 970 (980Ti if I can get it in budget), 16GB (2x8GB) DDR4, 500+ watt quality PSU, SSD, HDD (for backup). I'd recommend an external (USB) optical drive, Bluray if you watch them, DVDRW if you don't. Any Z170 board in the known universe is going to have like 6+ USB ports, so don't worry about that.

Do you need onboard wifi, or a wifi card? Ideally, this should be connected via RJ45 (LAN cable) but if that's not an option I need to know.

EDIT2: Ideally I need some answers before I give a recommendation, but I'll keep working in the meantime.
 
Last edited:
Thanks a bunch for your help!
How much more would 4K be if I wanted it for native resolution?
My Windows 10 license is probably from my Dell laptop, it originally had Windows 8 then I got the free upgrade and made a USB install drive.
The M-Series TVs are 4:2:2. Also my one concern is the display's response time - about 15ms. Input lag tested to be one of the best on a 4K TV, however.
Also, I forgot to mention, but I probably will need Wi-Fi and possibly Bluetooth for this system.

EDIT:
1. I'm not including those in the budget. I'll probably use a steam controller or Xbox 360/One controller for the games. I have a wireless USB mouse, but not a keyboard.
As for an optical drive, I don't watch Bluray or DVDs, my TV is a smart tv and pretty much everything I watch is streamed. I might invest in an external one though, just in case.
2. As for the Wi-Fi, I probably will need it, unless I can find a way to use an Ethernet cable in my apartment.
 
Thanks for more info!

The short answer with 4K is... you don't even want to know. I have $1200 in GPUs and even I can't max out all games at 4K / 60 FPS, though honestly I could with most. Stick with 1080P as your goal and you'll be fine. It'll still look vastly better than any console thanks to good AA and much higher FPS, not to mention just... better game engines. FO4 on PC vs. Xbox One / PS4 is night and day. Most things are. Also, most console games run at 30 FPS, and those that run at 60 FPS generally are up-sampled to 1080P from some lower resolution if they don't run 720P native.

So far as TV response time, do you have a console you could test it with -- Xbox 360 / PS3 / Xbox One / PS4? Just to get an idea of if blurring will be a problem. Personally I'm super sensitive to it and had to go back to a "proper" PC monitor after going through like... 7 different 4K TVs a while back, but hopefully you're not as bad. I also never got the Vizio, so I can't give my impressions of it. I don't remember off-hand if it has a game mode or PC mode, but if it does you'll want to experiment with those, and make sure the firmware is up to date.

Windows 10 will not transfer, so plan to buy a new license.

More edits incoming as I read / work.

Try to work out if you can run an ethernet cable somewhere, cause honestly, you don't want to involve wifi latency / potential for dropouts with a gaming machine, and you may be able to save money on a motherboard that doesn't include wifi, too.
 
Last edited:
The good news is most of my games are not really new. Probably many of them can't even run in 4K even if the hardware can support it. The TV can support 4K/30 FPS and 4K/60FPS, and 1080p/120FPS.
As for the blurring, I could try my neighbor's Xbox one or 360, I just have an old Nintendo 64. I don't think I'm too sensitive to it, considering I have played console games plenty and never really noticed it much. It does have a game mode, which I imagine would help.
Also, you're the first to suggest an i5, though I've heard good things about the skylake processors. Almost everyone I talked to when searching for a computer or info for building one has suggested an i7 (not necessarily skylake). I'm honestly not that sure what the differences are.
 
The only real difference between i5 and i7 (in this case, since we're talking about top-end overclockable Skylake, 6600K and 6700K respectively) is hyperthreading support. You get one thread per core with an i5 (4 cores, 4 threads) and 2 threads per core with an i7 (4 cores, 8 threads). Since your're mostly gaming, not doing productivity stuff or video encoding, 4 threads is plenty. Most games won't even scale well to 4 threads, so having 8 threads (but still 4 cores, same with either chip) with i7 doesn't give you real world benefit, it just costs you money.
 
Starting a parts list. I'll update this as I go.

Cooler Master Elite 130 - Mini-ITX Computer Case - $45 (newegg)
6600K i5 3.5GHz - $250 (newegg)
ASRock Z170M-ITX/ac Mini ITX Intel Motherboard (onboard wifi) - $120 (newegg)
G.Skill Ripjaws V DDR4-2400 16GB (2x8GB) kit - $68 (newegg)
Sandisk SD8SN8U 512GB M.2 SSD - $175 (newegg)
2-3 TB backup HDD of some description - ~$80.
NZXT HALE82 V2 550W PSU - $65
GIGABYTE GV-N970IXOC-4GD GTX 970 (short card, mITX edition) - $320 shipped, $20 MIR (newegg)

Total: $ 1130 + shipping.

If you look on amazon, you may find better prices -- I just used newegg for reference.

EDIT: GTX 970s are running like $300-350 new, so that puts you ~$120 over budget. If you can swing that, I'd say go for it. If not, I'll try to find some wiggle room somewhere. I'd suggest you buy used with warranty here, but you don't have the time / post count / history. Maybe your friend could buy it for you? Could save ~$50-75+ there easy.

Add ~$30-40 for a HSF if you want to OC the CPU. Considering you're getting a K chip and it's dead easy, I'd recommend it... so real total is $1170+shipping.

Easiest way to get in budget would be to cut down SSD size to 256GB or smaller.

The Elite 130 isn't the smallest mITX case, but it's long so you won't have GPU clearance issues and has a good bit of airflow. I'll research parts sizes once we finalize things and suggest a more compact mITX case if possible within budget.
 
Last edited:
The Original Poster answered NO to overclocking, so he can save a few bucks by going with a non-K series CPU & a H170 series motherboard…
 
If you're spending this much over all, it's silly (in my mind) to eliminate the option to OC. The amount saved doesn't warrant the lost potential, in my mind. This way he doesn't have to OC out of the box, but if he wants to later it's an option.
 
Also, if you're willing to go full ATX case / mobo, there's a deal at B&H for $330 with a 6600K and a Gigabyte GA-Z710-HD3P for $330. Out of stock right now, but seems like they get more somewhat regularly.
 
On the point of overclocking, the premium for a overclocking is around $100. You need a good Z series board (+$20), unlocked CPU ($50), and a cooler ($30) in order to properly overclock. A 60% increase over the retail price of a locked i5, $180, and for little to no gains in MOST games. For some reference, link. OC in conclusion is a complete waste unless you are at the top-end. Putting that extra $100 towards the GPU to move up to 390X, GTX 980, will yield more performance. For high threaded or CPU intensive applications, using the E3 series will get you more performance than running unlocked CPU.

Moving on:
All around build for $1K. Has the RVZ02, which is the best mainstream SFF case in my opinion.

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: Intel Core i5-4590 3.3GHz Quad-Core Processor ($188.99 @ SuperBiiz)
CPU Cooler: Scythe BIG Shuriken 2 Rev. B 45.5 CFM Sleeve Bearing CPU Cooler ($45.99 @ SuperBiiz)
Motherboard: ASRock H97M-ITX/AC Mini ITX LGA1150 Motherboard ($89.99 @ SuperBiiz)
Memory: Kingston HyperX Fury White 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1866 Memory ($41.92 @ Amazon)
Storage: Samsung 850 EVO-Series 250GB 2.5" Solid State Drive ($84.89 @ OutletPC)
Video Card: MSI GeForce GTX 970 4GB Twin Frozr V Video Card ($324.99 @ B&H)
Case: Silverstone RVZ02B HTPC Case ($65.98 @ Newegg)
Power Supply: Silverstone 500W 80+ Gold Certified Fully-Modular SFX Power Supply ($94.99 @ NCIX US)
Total: $937.74
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2016-02-11 02:16 EST-0500


Value build. Has the AMD 380X instead of GTX 970 and the elite 130 case and using stock cooler.
PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: Intel Core i5-4590 3.3GHz Quad-Core Processor ($188.99 @ SuperBiiz)
Motherboard: ASRock H97M-ITX/AC Mini ITX LGA1150 Motherboard ($89.99 @ SuperBiiz)
Memory: Kingston HyperX Fury White 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1866 Memory ($41.92 @ Amazon)
Storage: Samsung 850 EVO-Series 250GB 2.5" Solid State Drive ($84.89 @ OutletPC)
Video Card: Sapphire Radeon R9 380X 4GB NITRO Video Card ($243.98 @ Newegg)
Case: Cooler Master Elite 130 Mini ITX Tower Case ($32.99 @ Micro Center)
Power Supply: EVGA SuperNOVA G2 550W 80+ Gold Certified Fully-Modular ATX Power Supply ($79.99 @ Amazon)
Total: $762.75
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2016-02-11 02:33 EST-0500
 
As for overclocking, I'm not interested in it right now, but that's not to say I'll never try it. I just don't know much about how to do it and such (though I know what it is and what can happen if you screw up hahaha). I'd be comfortable going with a high end skylake - considering my current computer has an i5 that clocks out at 2.3 GHz...

Also I wanted to point out that for the case, I'd probably need something shorter than 9.5" height to fit it on my shelf, or it would have to be able to lie on its side without blocking airflow.
I'm also leaning towards 16GB RAM, or 12 at a minimum, if this would make sense. I've been told that I need at least 12 - right now I have 6 and it's definitely not enough. I'm concerned that 8 wouldn't be enough of a step up.

When I get home from work this evening, I'll see if I can hook up an Ethernet cable in my apartment or if I'll need Wi-Fi, and I'll let y'all know. I really appreciate the help so far!

EDIT: How much bigger would full ATX be? And would I be able to find a case that lies horizontally for it?
 
With the rvz02 you can lay it on its side, though you'll need to add higher feet to help it breathe. You can swap out that case case for the node 304 or core 500 if you prefer the shoebox form factor. Full ATX is really big and most horizontal are designed for business and won't properly accommodate a gpu.

For different ram size you can just choose a kit size you like. Just make sure it is low profile to keep your cooler options available. 8gb is good for today's use but it is only $30 to double it so it doesn't hurt. RAM only comes in exponents of 2.
 
I'll check out those cases later today. What do you mean by low profile for the RAM.. size?
 
Some RAM come with decorative heatsinks. These heatsinks may cause clearance issues and restrict your cooler choices, especially in a small form factor case.
 
Have a look at the SilverStone Milo ML08B case. Same chassis as the Raven RVZ02B, but IMO looks better blending into a home entertainment center.

ATX is doable but it will no longer be "console sized" but more like "tower PC laying on side sized."

What actual Steam games are you playing? If it is actual Valve products or the myriad of indie titles, may not be that big a deal to run at 4K even if the actual game supports it.
 
I'll check them out, thank you!
I mostly play games like Skyrim, Oblivion, Civ V. The most performance-intensive game I play is a FPS called Heroes and Generals. I don't have a large library but this is because I haven't yet had a gaming PC that can support many games on high settings. With a powerful system, I'll get more games.
 
Last night I was able to test a couple things. First, I cannot run an Ethernet cable the way my apartment is set up, so I will need a board with Wi-Fi. Bluetooth would not be a bad addition either, if it's not too much extra cost. Second, my TV worked pretty well for video games (tested with Xbox One), the response time is fine and the motion blur is not really noticeable. So I'd imagine I should have no trouble playing PC games on it.

As it stands, I've narrowed it down to an i5 (probably 6600), 16 GB DDR4 RAM, and either a 250 or 500 GB SSD. All the rest.. I'm not sure still.
A couple questions I have remaining - is it worth getting a 6th gen, or should I step down to an older i5 that has the same speed and such?
And to save money, I'm looking to use a 2 GB video card instead of 4.. since I'll have 16 GB of RAM. Any ideas/suggestions?
 
For graphics, unless you are actually running out of texture memory, the GPU chip itself is probably more important than the amount of RAM. 2GB or 4GB? Checking out a GTX 960? If your TV can actually pull in the 4K/60 signal, then you'll want a higher end GPU for future games.

Unless there is a lot of $$$ savings, go with latest architecture. DDR4 RAM is only about 10% more cost and motherboards cost the same. CPUs are similar as well, unless you were thinking of used.

Here's one possible build. Any coupons/rebates are included in price. Shipping not included, but many items are free shipping.
Intel Core i5-6400 $190
ASRock H110M-ITX/ac Mini ITX Motherboard $68
G.SKILL NT Series 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR4 2400 $67
SilverStone Milo Series ML08B case $60
FSP Group FSP450-60GHS(85)-R 450W SFX12 PSU $65
PNY GeForce GTX 970 4GB Rev 2 $280
Microsoft Windows 10 Home - 64-bit - OEM $100
SAMSUNG 850 EVO 2.5" 500GB SSD $153
=$983

NOTES:

This is exactly what you asked for. Slim case to fit into entertainment center, no overclocking, WiFi with BT, 16GB RAM, fairly powerful graphics, SSD, all for around $1000.

Motherboard has integrated audio that should work fine, or you can also get audio piped to your display through the HDMI using the graphics card's built-in audio.

Use the stock CPU cooler.

Motherboard comes with an M.2 wireless module that does wireless AC, plus BT 4.0.

If you want a less plain looking case, get the Raven version for the same price.

PSU is the same as the Silverstone ST450SF. FSP makes it for Silverstone. It is decent quality, 80Plus Bronze, and will put out a lot more power than your system can even use.

Some of the prices may be current sale prices, so YMMV.
 
Don't get a 2GB graphics card -- even 4GB isn't enough in /some/ titles at super high res/settings these days. No point building an otherwise badass machine only to have it crippled by a weaker than necessary GPU.

The above build is extremely solid, and if you must strictly stay within budget I'd say it's as good as any. That said...

You're saving ~$100 by dropping to the 6400 and H110 vs. a Z170 and 6500K, as well as not getting an aftermarket HSF, but remember that in the long term (assuming you intend to keep this system a while) that extra $100 can easily net you a 25% OC. If you're ok with that, go with the above build. If not, save up for a little bit longer and give yourself the extra headroom that leaving OCing as an option may give you.
 
Overclocking is worthless for htpc and gaming (unless you have two 980 ti and your cpu can't feed them fast enough). Just makes everything louder. The above build is also pretty good, but I recommend getting an open air GTX 970. Open air coolers work better in the slim Silverstone chassis.

In regard to to last gen versus current gen CPU, you have to decide whether the price difference is worth NVME and USB 3.1. Both platforms perform so similarly that I would not consider performance a factor.
 
If you think OCing is worthless, thehack, you're on the wrong forum. In a HTPC environment I could see the point from a noise/heat perspective, but for gaming it's entirely worthwhile even with a single card -- see Fallout 4 for an example. Regardless, I've said my piece. If you have any questions about the build feel free to ask, OP.
 
PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: Intel Core i5-6600K 3.5GHz Quad-Core Processor ($244.99 @ NCIX US)
CPU Cooler: Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO 82.9 CFM Sleeve Bearing CPU Cooler ($24.88 @ OutletPC)
Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-Z170XP-SLI ATX LGA1151 Motherboard ($118.98 @ Newegg)
Total: $388.85
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2016-02-13 19:15 EST-0500

VS
PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: Intel Core i5-6500 3.2GHz Quad-Core Processor ($199.98 @ OutletPC)
Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-Z170XP-SLI ATX LGA1151 Motherboard ($118.98 @ Newegg)
Total: $318.96
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2016-02-13 19:20 EST-0500

A difference of $70, a 22% if you look at overall mobo+cpu combo, or 35% if you are only comparing CPUs and that is with a cheap CPU cooler. This even keeping the same MOBO, with locked you can easily save an additional $20-30 by going with an h170 board. For that price difference, you get the following performance:

In the beautiful Rise of Tomb Raider.

0pfJAkS.png


Or BattleFront?
FoSTqM4.png


How about anandtech, a very reputable source?
76801.png

65077.png

65074.png



And what about Fallout 4? The most unoptimized game released in 2015?
7FMbXf5.png


Barely any scaling above 3GHZ. If anything it shows that any modern game in 2016 that is not made by a shitty, decade old game engine, shows no improvement with CPU overclocking (and let's be honest, fallout 4 is nowhere near the fidelity of Battlefront or Tomb Raider). That is not to say anything WRONG with OCing, you can get plenty of other performance increase in areas (synthetics, encoding, etc), but to not look at the overall statistics and see that OC does little to nothing for games nowadays is being dishonest.
 
Last edited:
I definitely like Zap's build. But I see one issue, the RAM appears 'unavailable' on newegg and no other companies seem to offer it. They had an almost identical set but it's DDR-2133 instead of 2400, for $62. Is this a good alternative, or should I look at other options?
As for CPU/overclocking, I'm fine without overclocking, as long as I can get it to run turbo. And I saw that the i5-6500 was just $199 right now, so I think the extra half GHz is worth the price increase.
The GTX-970 looks like a great card and unlike what some people told me, it does support 4K output, so that will be my card of choice, as opposed to the 960. (I can't comfortably afford the 980Ti)
Question about the Radeon cards - I see they tend to be less expensive for comparable ability.. is there something to watch out for with them?
And lastly, I got a 5.1 surround sound system and connected it to my TV. If this will require a dedicated sound card, let me know so I can incorporate one into my build.
Thanks again for all the great advice!
 
So long as your receiver / soundbar / whatever has a digital RCA input, you should be able to get a mini-jack (headphones style) to RCA patch cable and configure the Realtek audio driver software to output via one of the back panel ports. Not 100% on this though.
 
I definitely like Zap's build. But I see one issue, the RAM appears 'unavailable' on newegg and no other companies seem to offer it. They had an almost identical set but it's DDR-2133 instead of 2400, for $62. Is this a good alternative, or should I look at other options?
As for CPU/overclocking, I'm fine without overclocking, as long as I can get it to run turbo. And I saw that the i5-6500 was just $199 right now, so I think the extra half GHz is worth the price increase.
The GTX-970 looks like a great card and unlike what some people told me, it does support 4K output, so that will be my card of choice, as opposed to the 960. (I can't comfortably afford the 980Ti)
Question about the Radeon cards - I see they tend to be less expensive for comparable ability.. is there something to watch out for with them?
And lastly, I got a 5.1 surround sound system and connected it to my TV. If this will require a dedicated sound card, let me know so I can incorporate one into my build.
Thanks again for all the great advice!

1. Any good old ram will do, I recommend this one http://m.newegg.com/Product/index?itemnumber=N82E16820231964. Low profile, inexpensive. You can go with any that's on sale as long as it is from a good company and that the heatsink isn't big.
2. You want an nVidia card unless your TV has displayport. AMD does not come with hdmi 2.0 support without an adapter.
3. AMD has better performance per dollar, Nvidia has better marketing and software development. I myself have an R9 290. For smaller cases you are better of with Nvidia but plenty of people have installed Amd cards and they run just fine.
4. Check what inputs your audio system takes and make sure your motherboard supports it. Preferably SPDIF or optical out. Not all motherboard has 5 channel output or digital outs.
 
I definitely like Zap's build. But I see one issue, the RAM appears 'unavailable' on newegg and no other companies seem to offer it. They had an almost identical set but it's DDR-2133 instead of 2400, for $62. Is this a good alternative, or should I look at other options?
As for CPU/overclocking, I'm fine without overclocking, as long as I can get it to run turbo. And I saw that the i5-6500 was just $199 right now, so I think the extra half GHz is worth the price increase.
The GTX-970 looks like a great card and unlike what some people told me, it does support 4K output, so that will be my card of choice, as opposed to the 960. (I can't comfortably afford the 980Ti)
Question about the Radeon cards - I see they tend to be less expensive for comparable ability.. is there something to watch out for with them?
And lastly, I got a 5.1 surround sound system and connected it to my TV. If this will require a dedicated sound card, let me know so I can incorporate one into my build.
Thanks again for all the great advice!

How is your sound system set up? Do you have a receiver?
 
It's a Vizio 5.1 channel surround sound system with a sound bar, subwoofer, and two satellite speakers. I do not have a receiver, the system connects directly to the TV via HDMI. I'd need to see what other I/O it supports, I believe it has an optical out and an additional HDMI, among others.
And no, to my knowledge, my TV does not have displayport, though the adapters appear to be quite inexpensive.
 
You can use HDMI for everything if you want. Hook up your PC to the TV via HDMI, then hook up the TV from the TV's HDMI ARC connector to the soundbar via its HDMI input (check the manual to ensure you use the correct inputs and outputs on both), and have the TV output all sound to the soundbar that way. Or output from the TV via its optical out, although double check if the TV sends 5.1 out via the SPDIF.

That way you bypass the Motherboard sound and use the sound on your GPU, which might be better than whatever audio chip is on the motherboard. Of course you could use SPDIF from the PC to the soundbar also, but then you are at the mercy of whatever your onboard sound is. (Usually, they do support 5.1 though.)

Your TV should output 5.1 via ARC, although I can't guarantee that. Some random googling seems to indicate the M-series does indeed do 5.1 out from the TV via HDMI ARC but double check your manual.
 
Thanks for more info!

The short answer with 4K is... you don't even want to know. I have $1200 in GPUs and even I can't max out all games at 4K / 60 FPS, though honestly I could with most. Stick with 1080P as your goal and you'll be fine. It'll still look vastly better than any console thanks to good AA and much higher FPS, not to mention just... better game engines. FO4 on PC vs. Xbox One / PS4 is night and day. Most things are. Also, most console games run at 30 FPS, and those that run at 60 FPS generally are up-sampled to 1080P from some lower resolution if they don't run 720P native.

So far as TV response time, do you have a console you could test it with -- Xbox 360 / PS3 / Xbox One / PS4? Just to get an idea of if blurring will be a problem. Personally I'm super sensitive to it and had to go back to a "proper" PC monitor after going through like... 7 different 4K TVs a while back, but hopefully you're not as bad. I also never got the Vizio, so I can't give my impressions of it. I don't remember off-hand if it has a game mode or PC mode, but if it does you'll want to experiment with those, and make sure the firmware is up to date.

Windows 10 will not transfer, so plan to buy a new license.

More edits incoming as I read / work.

Try to work out if you can run an ethernet cable somewhere, cause honestly, you don't want to involve wifi latency / potential for dropouts with a gaming machine, and you may be able to save money on a motherboard that doesn't include wifi, too.
Aint that the truth man. 4k is hard to run!
 
The sound bar has an HDMI ARC out and a second port for HDMI in, and then optical audio in and coaxial in. The TV has HDMI ARC out and optical audio out. And the TV does support 5.1 out via HDMI ARC and optical/SPDIF (both Dolby Digital and DTS).

Now I get to the fun stuff.

As for picture, the TV only supports 60 fps, only the larger models do 120. This is true for 4K and 1080p. I'd imagine older or less graphic-intense games like Civ 5 or Oblivion could run 4K well without a top of the line GPU, but correct me if I'm wrong. I could sacrifice a little more for a more powerful card if it would assure a solid 4K performance. Yes, I'm trying to go by a budget, but it's not too hard a number and I don't want to need upgrades just a short time after building something.

For processors, I saw yet another i5, the 6600 (non K) which runs at 3.3 instead of 3.2 GHz (comparing to 6500), but also has a higher turboclock speed of 3.9 (instead of 3.6). It was $15-20 more than the 6500 - worth it or not? My biggest concern about building something is having a processor that inhibits the capabilities of everything else. And yes, I'm open to turboclocking, just not overclocking.
Considering adapters are not expensive, is it a viable option to get a good quality Radeon card and use an adapter in place of a GeForce card?
Everything else is pretty straightforward - I'm set on RAM and a good SSD, motherboard depending on what I end up doing for CPU and GPU, and case/power unit depending on all those. I'm looking to buy parts by this weekend if I can make up my mind.
 
Is it possible to get an IPS panel with 120hz?

Yes. Acer XB270HU bprz Black 27'' 144Hz WQHD G-SYNC Widescreen LED Backlight LCD Monitor IPS 350 cd/m2 1,000:1 - Newegg.com

You can use HDMI for everything if you want. Hook up your PC to the TV via HDMI, then hook up the TV from the TV's HDMI ARC connector to the soundbar via its HDMI input (check the manual to ensure you use the correct inputs and outputs on both), and have the TV output all sound to the soundbar that way. Or output from the TV via its optical out, although double check if the TV sends 5.1 out via the SPDIF.

That way you bypass the Motherboard sound and use the sound on your GPU, which might be better than whatever audio chip is on the motherboard. Of course you could use SPDIF from the PC to the soundbar also, but then you are at the mercy of whatever your onboard sound is. (Usually, they do support 5.1 though.)

Your TV should output 5.1 via ARC, although I can't guarantee that. Some random googling seems to indicate the M-series does indeed do 5.1 out from the TV via HDMI ARC but double check your manual.

You do not have to worry about it coming out of your PC if it is coax/SPDIF or optical. They are digital formats. Digital is digital, you are mistaking digital for analog outputs which varies greatly depending on the hardware.

The sound bar has an HDMI ARC out and a second port for HDMI in, and then optical audio in and coaxial in. The TV has HDMI ARC out and optical audio out. And the TV does support 5.1 out via HDMI ARC and optical/SPDIF (both Dolby Digital and DTS).

Now I get to the fun stuff.

As for picture, the TV only supports 60 fps, only the larger models do 120. This is true for 4K and 1080p. I'd imagine older or less graphic-intense games like Civ 5 or Oblivion could run 4K well without a top of the line GPU, but correct me if I'm wrong. I could sacrifice a little more for a more powerful card if it would assure a solid 4K performance. Yes, I'm trying to go by a budget, but it's not too hard a number and I don't want to need upgrades just a short time after building something.

For processors, I saw yet another i5, the 6600 (non K) which runs at 3.3 instead of 3.2 GHz (comparing to 6500), but also has a higher turboclock speed of 3.9 (instead of 3.6). It was $15-20 more than the 6500 - worth it or not? My biggest concern about building something is having a processor that inhibits the capabilities of everything else. And yes, I'm open to turboclocking, just not overclocking.
Considering adapters are not expensive, is it a viable option to get a good quality Radeon card and use an adapter in place of a GeForce card?
Everything else is pretty straightforward - I'm set on RAM and a good SSD, motherboard depending on what I end up doing for CPU and GPU, and case/power unit depending on all those. I'm looking to buy parts by this weekend if I can make up my mind.

1. Not really. CPU do not really affect performance as much anymore.
2. AMD vs Radeon, since you want to run 4k@60hz, you have to have HDMI 2, and AMD does not support HDMI 2.0 without the adapter, which costs $28 on amazon right now. It is not a regular displayport to hdmi 1.3 adapter, so it is more expensive.
3. If you are intent on hooking up to the TV, GTX 970/980/Ti is your best bet. 4K is pushing 4 times the amount of pixels as 1080P, so it will cause a 3-4 times performance drop. Fire up a game, set the settings to where you can run it around 200FPS at 1080P. That will be around the settings that you will run to get 4k~ 50-60fps. These are just kind of ballpark numbers to give you a general idea.
 
Yes. Acer XB270HU bprz Black 27'' 144Hz WQHD G-SYNC Widescreen LED Backlight LCD Monitor IPS 350 cd/m2 1,000:1 - Newegg.com



You do not have to worry about it coming out of your PC if it is coax/SPDIF or optical. They are digital formats. Digital is digital, you are mistaking digital for analog outputs which varies greatly depending on the hardware.



1. Not really. CPU do not really affect performance as much anymore.
2. AMD vs Radeon, since you want to run 4k@60hz, you have to have HDMI 2, and AMD does not support HDMI 2.0 without the adapter, which costs $28 on amazon right now. It is not a regular displayport to hdmi 1.3 adapter, so it is more expensive.
3. If you are intent on hooking up to the TV, GTX 970/980/Ti is your best bet. 4K is pushing 4 times the amount of pixels as 1080P, so it will cause a 3-4 times performance drop. Fire up a game, set the settings to where you can run it around 200FPS at 1080P. That will be around the settings that you will run to get 4k~ 50-60fps. These are just kind of ballpark numbers to give you a general idea.
awesome thank you
 
I don't have much of a choice - if a 970 is inadequate, I might save up a little more and just get a 980/Ti - otherwise I'd be spending the difference on a monitor that I don't really need. How much of an option is SLI (for example 2 970s)?
Thanks for the info!
 
You do not have to worry about it coming out of your PC if it is coax/SPDIF or optical. They are digital formats. Digital is digital, you are mistaking digital for analog outputs which varies greatly depending on the hardware.

I'm not talking about that. I was under the impression HDMI was usually a better choice for Digital audio rather than SPDIF, particularly for surround sound setups. I was also alluding to the fact that not all motherboard on board audio chipsets are necessarily created equal even though they all technically are sending out the same 1s and 0s.
 
I'm not talking about that. I was under the impression HDMI was usually a better choice for Digital audio rather than SPDIF, particularly for surround sound setups. I was also alluding to the fact that not all motherboard on board audio chipsets are necessarily created equal even though they all technically are sending out the same 1s and 0s.
If the motherboard supports digital out, it is all the same. It is just 1, and 0s. The main difference would be possible DSP (digital signal processing) which is additional effects added on like TrueAudio, which most developers don't use (AMD TrueAudio Technology). So in a way you're right. In a practical case, it's all really the same. The audio from your mobo digital out and the audio from your GTX 970 will have no difference.
 
I don't have much of a choice - if a 970 is inadequate, I might save up a little more and just get a 980/Ti - otherwise I'd be spending the difference on a monitor that I don't really need. How much of an option is SLI (for example 2 970s)?
Thanks for the info!
A GTX 970 will run games on medium without AA (since 4K is so dense, you won't need AA). There is very little point in SLI until you get pass the fastest single card. Single card performs better, consume less power, don't require a mATX minimum size setup.
 
I don't have much of a choice - if a 970 is inadequate, I might save up a little more and just get a 980/Ti - otherwise I'd be spending the difference on a monitor that I don't really need. How much of an option is SLI (for example 2 970s)?

Next big step up in performance would be a GTX 980 Ti, but now you're talking about closer to a $1400 computer.

Going two GTX 970 in SLI would put you near that price as well, plus you would need a bigger case which won't be "console sized" anymore.
 
Back
Top