sfsuphysics
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The Bolt is not meant to compete with Model S or X, but Tesla's "economy" version (if that ever gets released)
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Elon Musk Personally Cancelled Customer's $130K Car Order
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I find it unlikely that you own a Tesla.
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Being a douche is a not a protected class. So, yes, they can legally deny to do business with him.
kbrickley
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He was not randomly denied service. There is certainly no indication that he was denied service because he was straight or because he was white. He was denied service because he was being a douche. Luckily or unluckily, depending on which side of this you support, being a douche is not yet a protected classification. So, like the Rabbi who was banned from Northwest (for complaining about every flight he took) he is now banned, not because of race or religion or sexual preference but because he is a self entitled jerk and no company should be required to do business with self entitled jerks (if they choose to, that is their business).
It depends on the customer. If you want say a Ferrari enzo or other trophy car, the only way to get on the waiting list is to have a history of owning Ferraris, and no spectacular crashes, or crazy behavior because the one thing they don't have is either the customer dissing the car they actually own or crashing it into a pole somewhere on the news. Unlike established car makers, Tesla doesn't have a mass market money maker. They are trying to build a brand unlike say BMW or Nissan. BMW makes money on the M6, so every sale is profit and they make thousand of them, but I'll bet they vetted anyone who wanted to buy an M1. Volkswagen would sell anyone a Phaeton, but not a Veyron. My friends had to know the right people to get on the GT waiting list, but anyone can walk into a Ferrari dealership and walk out with a California. It's not all about six figures. It doesn't mean they won't treat you well, but they want these "loss leader" cars in the hands of their greatest advocates.
Gorankar
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The S is not a trophy car. It is a high end passenger sedan, that happens to be electric. You keep comparing it to the likes of Enzo's, Veyrons, and GTs, when you should be comparing it to a 5-7 series BMW or E-S class Mercs. I get that the customer was being a dick, but the proper way to handle that would have been to say something along the lines of: "sorry you feel that way, what would make this right", or an explanation of why everything was late. Instead Musky went the dbag route. Whether they are making money off it or not means very little to the people plopping down $$$$$ on it.
BTW Tesla is apparently just spending more than they are making, and not actually losing money on each S they sell.
http://bgr.com/2015/08/11/tesla-model-s-profits-4000/
http://www.autoblog.com/2015/08/10/tesla-does-not-lose-4000-each-model-s/
http://www.cheatsheet.com/automobil...000-on-every-model-s-it-sells.html/?a=viewall
I think a lot of people saying hooray to his actions are indulging in a bit of "right on! damn! I wish I could get away with that!"
BTW Tesla is apparently just spending more than they are making, and not actually losing money on each S they sell.
http://bgr.com/2015/08/11/tesla-model-s-profits-4000/
http://www.autoblog.com/2015/08/10/tesla-does-not-lose-4000-each-model-s/
http://www.cheatsheet.com/automobil...000-on-every-model-s-it-sells.html/?a=viewall
I think a lot of people saying hooray to his actions are indulging in a bit of "right on! damn! I wish I could get away with that!"
Yea sorry if I didnt make that clear enough in my post. Even then the bolt will be for higher end economy where the model 3 is entry level to mid level luxury. Hoping to spec out a Model 3 with dual motors and auto pilot for $60k~.
Well, it depends on how you look at it. The reason it's comparable to veyrons and enzos is that in every case, the amount of money poured into developing them doesn't come close to recouping in the lifetime of the product. When Ferrari creates a 458, it's a mass market product which is profitable within it's lifetime, but the Enzo? Not really, they make a handful, crash 30 for safety testing and commit to 10 years of providing spare parts to all comers. The opposite applies to when say Pagani creates a zonda, they don't need to engineer a new drivetrain or any of the mechanical bits which they buy from other manufacturers, they just need to sell the design and use high quality parts and it's profitable. The Model S and X cars will be retired way before any of the money sunk into their development is recouped, as are the Roadster. The fact that they cannot produce these cheaply enough and fast enough (otherwise there would be no waiting list) because the battery cost isn't low enough means they are exclusive, though not in the hundreds per year level of exclusivity like with the supercars. When demand is higher than your supply, and you know you can't sell your way to profitability, you focus on brand building, and a unit sold to a whiner is one you could have sold to a zealot. It's just unusual in the car business since there haven't been any major new manufacturers in such a long time, but the trophy products for many manufacturers are the same way when your future success hinges on the earliest products. Tesla is financially on a tightrope and they depend on 100+ point ratings and JD powers awards to keep the momentum.
I just like Edmunds, cause they do a long road test, like a year or higher. Usually just, one car. Just to chronicle the issues they receive. Guess what? Those issues also happen to be some of the issues that Consumer Report received from their survey.
Also no, I don't expect a car company to be 100% reliable, but common built items tend to be reliable. Like, making sure a sunroof seals properly or the doors seal and that they last over a year. I wasn't even talking about the portion that drives the car forward, as those are completely different between the two cars. I was paying more attention to things shared between EVs and ICE. What I mean with the chassis.
Both electric motors and combustion engines have been produced for decades. Some fail, some don't. Neither are perfect and I expect that, since they're constantly being worked upon. Injection, variable timing, and whatever new stuff they keep coming up with.
Again, not once did I say that any Tesla is a bad car. It is a very good car and lots of great features. It's just reliability goes down due to such. Ford Fiesta isn't considered a reliable car, since it breaks a lot. Not the engine itself, cause the car will drive all day. Just crap like the whole Ford Edge electronic equipment breaks.
Rarely will you see a Tesla's electric motor fail. Maybe in the beginning with the roadster (I don't know, never look at it), but all the added equipment fails or need rebooting.
With Tesla they like to upgrade their cars, cause they don't design/redesign them often. Model S hasn't changed in almost 4 years (exterior/chassis wise). Other car companies change a lot quicker. They maintain the same chassis for 5-6 years, while revamping the exterior almost yearly. Guess they figure consumers want everyone to know that their car is new, so gotta change the look.
Interesting ... IMO reality is completely opposite of what you suggest. For whatever reason there are a large number of [H] posters who are militantly opposed to any type of green technology.
Gorankar
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If that is all true, Musk has still branded himself a dbag. In fact, he gave the whiny dick of a customer a megaphone by doing this. Few would have paid that guy any mid b4 this. Proper customer service would have accomplished the brand building goal far mo betta than "fuck you no car for you", did.
PantherBlitz
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Reading between the lines tells me that he was not cancelled until that phone call. I'm sure he comes off on the phone the same way that he does in print.
Seriously, I would love to get a call from Musk. Who would take that as an opportunity to pick a fight with him?
Seriously, I would love to get a call from Musk. Who would take that as an opportunity to pick a fight with him?
Probably ppl who were annoyed with having their time wasted. If they were willing to have a party to show off their car for customers who bought one, they should have properly coordinated the event. It's not like it was a car show convention for the general public.
Me, if I felt it a waste of time, I would have just left and that would have been the end of that. I have other things in my life, than worry over some car event.
w1retap
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Elon Musk obviously hasn't graduated to the government level of business yet. Event the president sells weapons to terrorists and cartels. Money is money, and putting those weapons in the hands of idiotic people ensures you more revenue in the future from the outcomes of their poor choices/actions. tsk tsk..
No, they were features advertised and offered for purchased starting in late 2014 but early owners didn't get (and still not fully up to the promised capabilities) for an entire year.
I remember one a-hole customer would always call in when I worked Tier 2 at WOW! Cable. The CEO (Colleen Abdoulah) was battling like stage eleventy cancer at the time, and it was pretty well known regional and company news.
Anyway, this customer said something along the lines of "Your stupid CEO should've died of cancer, I hate your company," or something to that effect while ranting to one of the supervisors - bad move. The VP of WOW worked directly in the building the call center was in, in CO Springs. He authorized immediate termination of the dude's service, and set up a next day truck roll to unhook the lines.
No company is obligated to serve an abusive customer.
Anyway, this customer said something along the lines of "Your stupid CEO should've died of cancer, I hate your company," or something to that effect while ranting to one of the supervisors - bad move. The VP of WOW worked directly in the building the call center was in, in CO Springs. He authorized immediate termination of the dude's service, and set up a next day truck roll to unhook the lines.
No company is obligated to serve an abusive customer.
It's probably not the best way to pull this off, I always felt Musk is more of an engineer than a typical CEO, all blunt and no tact, doing things a guy with marketing or or PR experience would never do, but in a way it's a bit like Seinfeld, fun to watch. He did the same thing when Top Gear pushed a Tesla implying it ran out of juice. And you can bet he wanted to kill every driver who posted one of those reckless auto drive videos on Youtube. But really, I wouldn't want that guy, or any of those Tesla surfing idiots as a customer either.
I read the original message from the guy that got banned. Tesla blew the event, no doubt about it. I'd be pissed about it to. But the way this guy attacked Tesla and Musk wasn't fair at all.
Why should he publicly make a statement like this?
Don't be fooled, this is a statement and it's an accusation and an insult all rolled into one.
I can understand why Elon Musk wouldn't want this guy as a customer.
I think you are wrong. I think even big billion dollar companies should have a choice who they do and do not want as a customer.
If I owned one I sure as hell would want to have that same very right myself.
You know, right is right, and wrong is wrong, and how big a company is shouldn't play a part in deciding who can and can't choose not to do business with people who frankly, are bad customers.
If you deny this to a company because the company makes billions, then you kinda have to deny it to some little mom and pop as well.
Now you have some little company and you have one or two customers who frankly, are more trouble then they are worth. In fact, they are actually hurting your business because of what they think they are entitles too as a paying customer and how they detract from your ability to offer good service to other customers. If I were this Mom and Pop I would want to be able to tell these kinds of customers to not come back, "you are not welcome here in my shop".
I'd want this for me, for you, and for Elon Musk.
If you deny this to a company because the company makes billions, then you kinda have to deny it to some little mom and pop as well.
Now you have some little company and you have one or two customers who frankly, are more trouble then they are worth. In fact, they are actually hurting your business because of what they think they are entitles too as a paying customer and how they detract from your ability to offer good service to other customers. If I were this Mom and Pop I would want to be able to tell these kinds of customers to not come back, "you are not welcome here in my shop".
I'd want this for me, for you, and for Elon Musk.
jtm55
Gawd
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Well Said Sir!
kbrickley
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You stated the argument well. Also, this has been legally decided (in the USA) already. Airlines have had the ability to ban problematic customers and one of those bans made it all the way to the SCOTUS (which set the national precedent). That case was decided in favor of the airline. There have also been a number of business articles on the subject indicating how harmful that abusive and disruptive customers can be to a business and employee morale. Consumers have a right to "try" to buy from whomever they wish. Sellers have a right to sell to whomever they wish as long as they are not being discriminatory. And as you stated, that is the best balance between both sets of rights between non-government entities.
Yossarian22
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Zarathustra[H];1042121566 said:
Ole Musky is a dbag with a cult following it seems. Glad I have so little interest in the S for myself. Since I just called Musky a dbag, I dont suppose he would let me buy one. The horror
The guy used to be a pundit of companies and CEOs and apparently this is the first time someone with thin skin (Elon Musk) couldn't handle criticism and lashed out. He cried in interview when some famous astronauts said they were skeptical about commercial spaceflight.
This would be akin if Intel threw some paid event for special customers with some special product, botched it, I went online and criticized it, then I had CEO Brian Krzanich cancel my pre-order for said special product... Meh.
Anyway, the guy can instead buy a reasonable car, not an overpriced crapper. Given that he is somewhat wealthy, he could buy something really special (BMP-1 would be great).
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Zarathustra[H]
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This article helps explain what happened.
The Model X was supposed to be a quick change, by just raising the Model S, to help get more sales and revenue to pursue the cheaper family car (now known as Model 3), but the Model X team fell victim to massive scope creep, and instead used some real development time.
Musk himself acknowledges that this aspect of the Model X was a management failure on his part.