Should You Switch To Windows 10 Or A Mac?

brettjrob said:
I fully agree: "Tablet Mode" is a mess. I'll concede I haven't taken the time to RTFM on it, so I very well may be misunderstanding its purpose and functionality. But if that's the case, "Tablet Mode" is one of the most unintuitive software features I've ever encountered. I'm generally pretty savvy about figuring this stuff out on my own, and I flat-out gave up on this after 5 or 10 minutes back in July when I first upgraded on my SP2.
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Taking the time to RTFM would be a big waste of time.

Tablet mode is a total mess -- and many of the so called-universal apps that are actually just leftover Metro apps from Windows 8, actually don't work that well in tablet mode, but are basically functional in desktop mode. So you have what are essentially, touch optimized tablet apps, that only work when NOT in table mode, which means that the onscreen keyboard doesn't pop up automatically, etc.

Edge basically sucks in touch mode compared to the lovely autohiding, multi-page views that Metro-IE had -- and the onscreen keyboard handling was MUCH better with IE (i.e. focusing on the correct text entry field). Of course, for anything useful, Edge basically sucks in desktop mode too (i.e. no plugins, which means NONE of my business sites, EMR's, etc. have any hope of operating).

Tablet mode on Windows 10 is about as broken as desktop mode is on Windows 8.1 (sans ClassicShell, that is).

Had Microsoft had half a clue, they would have realized they got Tablet Mode almost right in Windows 8.1 to begin with, they didn't NEED to fix it. All they really needed to do to fix things for Windows 10 would have been to add back in a real start menu (which ClassicShell and StartIsBack both do a better job of than what returned with W10) and to make Metro apps to where they could run in a Window (which you can do on Windows 8.1 with ModernMix anyway). So, given a free app and a $5 app, Windows 8.1 is basically about everything Windows 10 needed to be (well, I will grant that Microsoft did improve the WiFi network pages in Windows 10 -- having to use NETSH WLAN to set network priorities in Windows 8.1 was utterly moronic).
 
mdburkey said:
Tablet mode is a total mess -- and many of the so called-universal apps that are actually just leftover Metro apps from Windows 8, actually don't work that well in tablet mode, but are basically functional in desktop mode. So you have what are essentially, touch optimized tablet apps, that only work when NOT in table mode, which means that the onscreen keyboard doesn't pop up automatically, etc.
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Absolutely, positively not my experience in any way shape or form on 6 different Windows 10 based tablets. What issues you're describing simply don't make sense.
 
trparky said:
those people who don't want to move to Windows 10 are the same people who think that with Windows 10 Microsoft has a direct link to their hard drive to look at their personal data all day long. Those are the people who will never upgrade to Windows 10.
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I will not be upgrading my HTPC to windows 10 because they no longer support media center and my tuner card. All the TV shows we watch run through that box.

I also don't like the lack of a setting to delay updates on the home version. Nothing like trying to do a quick reboot, and you have to wait for updates to install.
 
Armenius said:
Where does the myth that Apple computers are better for content creation come from, anyway? Marketing? It may have been true 15 years ago, but with all the free and premium programs available for both Windows and Apple OS these days I find it hard to pick one over the other.
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You answered your own question.
People learned how to use graphics programs on Apple systems 20 years ago, and they are not technical enough to learn a new OS.
 
DeathFromBelow said:
It's a regression in functionality from both 7 (on the desktop) and 8 (on touch devices), it's unacceptably intrusive, and they still haven't fixed much of the UI stupidity left over from 8. Why do you need separate 'settings' and 'control panel' menus, for example? Why can't I change update settings on Home edition (especially now that users are the beta testers)? Why am I forced to install drivers? What do you really gain from 'upgrading' to this crap? Siritana and slightly faster boot times? All for the low, low price of your privacy.

The situation with Windows 8/10 reminds me of shrinking products at the grocery store with "New and Improved!" on the packaging. Consumers lap that BS up.
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Exactly my thoughts; with any hope, mantle or whatever they're calling it now will take off so that I have no need of Directx 12 in the future.
 
I like to build my on PCs and I like having variety in choice of laptops (more than 4), so I really have no choice.

ESXi 100% -> Windows 80%, and Linux 15%, and yes, I also run OS X in a VM 5%. Ball park.
 
Hmm. That's like asking which you'd prefer. A shit sandwich or a diarrhea shake...
 
nutzo said:
I will not be upgrading my HTPC to windows 10 because they no longer support media center and my tuner card. All the TV shows we watch run through that box.

I also don't like the lack of a setting to delay updates on the home version. Nothing like trying to do a quick reboot, and you have to wait for updates to install.
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+1

There are other things I don't like but WMC supporting my Tuners is a must have feature, so that make Windows 10 a non-starter.
 
I was unlikely to buy a mac before working for a vendor that provides Apple Tech support and I am even more unlikely to buy one now that I use it on a daily basis. Mac's are pretty much useless. I can't think of much that they can do that Windows or Linux can't. I'll continue to migrate more and more over to Linux once my backlog clears up but i'll never own a Mac. Waste of money.
 
Aireoth said:
Cool? I am confused, you agree with the new Mac Pro being a joke in some ways, yet you go on to talk about the Dell Precision...
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No, I'm confused. Are you referencing multiple posts? I'm speaking about the Precision from a basic, decently built, workhorse perspective. There's really not much "cool" about it. It does its job, and from all of the ones I've got here, it does it just fine, and with absolutely no hiccups so far. They're FAR from being cool. They're ugly, they're Dell, they're bulky. However, they do their job, so... no problems. There is more available hardware for them, more can be added to them than can be stuffed into the Apple trash can.

I actually think the trash can design is pretty cool. However, a giant box that can fit tons of drives, large professional graphics adapters, etc. in an industrial engineering environment, that is built like a tank and not dainty like the Mac Pro, is probably going to work better here.

I was actually kind of agreeing with you to a degree, but if you want to argue, we can do that.

What I said about workstations doesn't necessarily apply to how I feel about laptops. Also, a workstation that works for me in one environment may not make any sense at all in another one.
 
J3RK said:
No, I'm confused. Are you referencing multiple posts? I'm speaking about the Precision from a basic, decently built, workhorse perspective. There's really not much "cool" about it. It does its job, and from all of the ones I've got here, it does it just fine, and with absolutely no hiccups so far. They're FAR from being cool. They're ugly, they're Dell, they're bulky. However, they do their job, so... no problems. There is more available hardware for them, more can be added to them than can be stuffed into the Apple trash can.

I actually think the trash can design is pretty cool. However, a giant box that can fit tons of drives, large professional graphics adapters, etc. in an industrial engineering environment, that is built like a tank and not dainty like the Mac Pro, is probably going to work better here.

I was actually kind of agreeing with you to a degree, but if you want to argue, we can do that.

What I said about workstations doesn't necessarily apply to how I feel about laptops. Also, a workstation that works for me in one environment may not make any sense at all in another one.
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I'm not looking to argue, I was/am genuinely confused about your comment. The cool with a ? was my attempt to convey that. Your points are and where interesting, I just couldn't see where A) you disagree and B) what that had to do with the Mac Pro.

I can see from this post that we are generally on the same page, a professional product is not 'cool looking' which is all the Mac Pro is. A professional product is bulky, but has everything you need to do XYZ task, which mostly means fast and multiple HDDs, lots of RAM, fast hardware, and often internal backups (my current server has multiples of everything). The Mac Pro is anything but, I can't imagine the pains it would take to fix that thing if you used it in a professional environment where time is money and keeping things up and running is key.
 
Vyedmic said:
Wise man.
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I use Win for most gaming, Linux for everything else, excpet on the go I use mac due to battery life & easy vpn setup.

I use a chromebook in bed at night when I want to browse something real quick or when I'm on vacation (worth $0 if stolen).

Every system has it's strength and weaknesses.

You wouldn't use a hammer to turn a bolt or a screwdriver to hammer a nail in righi?
 
ShagnWagn said:
I guess I would have to say neither and just skip over Windows 10 like I did Windows 95 and ME, and for the most part Vista.
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Are you saying you went from DOS/Win3.1(1) straight to Windows 7?

Hows that 486 in Win7?

;)
 
heatlesssun said:
Absolutely, positively not my experience in any way shape or form on 6 different Windows 10 based tablets. What issues you're describing simply don't make sense.
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Are you actually switching the tablet to Tablet Mode (full screen, no start menu, no desktop, etc)?

Also, the included Microsoft apps work fine -- though some are sucky, like Edge which takes up too much screen real estate for tabs, etc. but I have run into several third party apps (which, I will admit, are ones that were aimed at Windows 8.1 and have often not been updated) that simply do not handle the loss of the charms bar that well and the new hamburger doesn't allow access to all the settings.

Also, I will continue my criticism of Edge in touch mode. I have run across several websites that cause the pop up keyboard to come up when it shouldn't or it ends up hiding the text field or button that I was trying to click on. If I use the Action Center to switch back to desktop mode, then select the field by hand and manually bring up the keyboard, enter stuff, then switch back to tablet mode it works, but it's annoying to do. Additionally, Metro IE on Win 8.1 did a better job of emulating a mouse click on a pull down on a website than Edge does -- even though it didn't work 100% of the time even on Windows 8.1. I have run into MORE sites with Edge though that have buttons with pop-up menus where if you use touch to click the button it pops up and then immediately goes away before you can navigate and click anything in the sub-menu (for which reason I typically keep LoveSummerTrue's Touch Mouse Pointer loaded and available).

I will admit that some of these are probably most likely issues with crappy coding on the websites in question, but they worked FINE with the touch version of IE on Windows 8.1.
 
Aireoth said:
I'm not looking to argue, I was/am genuinely confused about your comment. The cool with a ? was my attempt to convey that. Your points are and where interesting, I just couldn't see where A) you disagree and B) what that had to do with the Mac Pro.

I can see from this post that we are generally on the same page, a professional product is not 'cool looking' which is all the Mac Pro is. A professional product is bulky, but has everything you need to do XYZ task, which mostly means fast and multiple HDDs, lots of RAM, fast hardware, and often internal backups (my current server has multiples of everything). The Mac Pro is anything but, I can't imagine the pains it would take to fix that thing if you used it in a professional environment where time is money and keeping things up and running is key.
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Gotcha, I may have misinterpreted the tone of your post. Sorry about that.

Yeah, the Mac Pro is interesting from an industrial design standpoint. Whether it suits ones needs or tastes is up to them. I personally wouldn't buy one, but I do think it's kind of cool. I like what they were able to pack into an unconventionally shaped smallish space. It would also make a decent workstation for say audio production in a home/semi-pro studio as a single example. It wouldn't be my first choice for pretty much anything, but I can't deny that it's an interesting concept. It's completely different from my views on the MacBook Pro. In the case of the MBP it's as functional as it is aesthetically pleasing. The only lacking area is pure performance, but as I mentioned, with an SSD, it's about as solid as it gets, portable, perfect for hauling around, and with a Windows VM on it, it's perfectly versatile. It's got a lot going for it that the Mac Pro workstation doesn't necessarily have.

Anyway, yeah, I think we pretty much agree. :D
 
mdburkey said:
Are you actually switching the tablet to Tablet Mode (full screen, no start menu, no desktop, etc)?
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Yes. I use tablet mode when using a smaller screen.

mdburkey said:
Also, the included Microsoft apps work fine -- though some are sucky, like Edge which takes up too much screen real estate for tabs, etc. but I have run into several third party apps (which, I will admit, are ones that were aimed at Windows 8.1 and have often not been updated) that simply do not handle the loss of the charms bar that well and the new hamburger doesn't allow access to all the settings.
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Can you name on specifically? I use a LOT of store apps though most of the ones I use daily have been updated to the new UI. Hulu is one that hasn't but works perfectly with touch in tablet mode. There's no loss of access to any setting using the window hamburger.

mdburkey said:
Also, I will continue my criticism of Edge in touch mode. I have run across several websites that cause the pop up keyboard to come up when it shouldn't or it ends up hiding the text field or button that I was trying to click on. If I use the Action Center to switch back to desktop mode, then select the field by hand and manually bring up the keyboard, enter stuff, then switch back to tablet mode it works, but it's annoying to do. Additionally, Metro IE on Win 8.1 did a better job of emulating a mouse click on a pull down on a website than Edge does -- even though it didn't work 100% of the time even on Windows 8.1. I have run into MORE sites with Edge though that have buttons with pop-up menus where if you use touch to click the button it pops up and then immediately goes away before you can navigate and click anything in the sub-menu (for which reason I typically keep LoveSummerTrue's Touch Mouse Pointer loaded and available).
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I do agree with much of what you're saying here. IE 11 modern was a more touch friendly browser. For those that never used Windows 8.x or IE modern, Edge is very much like Chrome or Safari on a tablet. The way touch events are handled needs to be improved.
 
ManofGod said:
I know that for my system, an I7-6700k, Gigabyte Z170X Gaming 7, Windows 10 Pro and 32GB of DDR4 ram, I can usually get 9 to 10 seconds or so. (This is with a 480GB AData SSD booting from hybrid shutdown mode.) On a previous AMD FX system, I could get it in about 6 seconds or so.

Honestly, I think that the Thunderbolt / USB 3.1 hardware causes some delays.
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It's down closer to 10-12 seconds after making some adjustments to the boot settings in the UEFI ... hopefully with more updates to the motherboard bios over time it will continue to come down ... right now the boot time is faster than my monitor acquisition of the video signal (I have a new monitor coming on the weekend so I can see if it is better at seeing when the system starts Windows exactly)
 
kbrickley said:
It's down closer to 10-12 seconds after making some adjustments to the boot settings in the UEFI ... hopefully with more updates to the motherboard bios over time it will continue to come down ... right now the boot time is faster than my monitor acquisition of the video signal (I have a new monitor coming on the weekend so I can see if it is better at seeing when the system starts Windows exactly)
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Excellent. :) I wish my boot times where faster but, no matter what I adjust, nothing seems to improve them. That said, I can only wait like yourself for the UEFI firmwares to be updated. The Asrock Ultra Fast Boot on the AMD side was very fast but, they did have a while to tweak it.
 
tetris42 said:
Because there's not much of a reason to get a Mac if you're a technical person?
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I do not agree. However, I also do not have the need for one even though I consider them very good. I technical person should not be tied down to just one OS or one type of hardware configuration. I am pleased that VM's are a viable thing nowadays.
 
ManofGod said:
Excellent. :) I wish my boot times where faster but, no matter what I adjust, nothing seems to improve them. That said, I can only wait like yourself for the UEFI firmwares to be updated. The Asrock Ultra Fast Boot on the AMD side was very fast but, they did have a while to tweak it.
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Yeah ... the Z170 Motherboards are still fairly new I think so they should improve a lot this year
 
Windows 10 or a Mac? Tough, since I do not desire either at the moment. In regards to privacy/security, I would prefer Mac over Windows 10. However, many old games I play are only compatible with Windows. In addition, Windows has more options/programs/customizability, etc. In the end, both have pros and cons, but for me Windows 10 has more pros, so I would choose Windows 10 if I had to.
 
Why do people care so much about boot times? I disabled fast boot in my bios after I saw a couple of people post that it caused them to get some corrupted files on their PC. So it takes 5 sec longer to boot - I don't care.
 
tetris42 said:
Because there's not much of a reason to get a Mac if you're a technical person?
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What does "technical" mean? With a UNIX under pinning, a Mac can be turned into a full fledged data analysis machine or server right out of the box. Built in web server, shell scripting, Perl, Python, all ready to go. You can even load ZFS on it.

Or does technical mean running 3DMark?
 
westrock2000 said:
What does "technical" mean? With a UNIX under pinning, a Mac can be turned into a full fledged data analysis machine or server right out of the box. Built in web server, shell scripting, Perl, Python, all ready to go. You can even load ZFS on it.

Or does technical mean running 3DMark?
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My point is the main advantage of a Mac is ease of use. If you're someone who tinkers around with your system anyway, that's less of an issue. So again, why get a Mac? You can get a more powerful system for less money going with Windows. With Windows you have the option of gaming, and like others have stated already, they're just as capable now (if not moreso) for media duties. What is the Mac doing that the Windows PC isn't, besides costing more?
 
rezerekted said:
Why do people care so much about boot times? I disabled fast boot in my bios after I saw a couple of people post that it caused them to get some corrupted files on their PC. So it takes 5 sec longer to boot - I don't care.
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Why do people actually care about making their machines faster. I mean, come on, I clicked the Chrome Icon and it only took 25 seconds to open up - I don't care. :rolleyes:
 
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