ISPs Try To Kill Open-Access Fiber Network

Megalith

Megalith

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Slimy private ISPs down in West Virginia are peeved about a development that would give them a bit of competition.

Cable companies that provide Internet service are working to kill legislation that would create a state-financed $72 million fiber-optic network across West Virginia. Suddenlink, Comcast, Shentel, Time-Warner Cable and other members of the West Virginia Cable Television Association oppose building the high-speed Internet network, saying it’s a waste of money.
 
All digital communication seems to have the inherent flaws of abuse. I know it's not cheap to install and maintain, but they deserve competition if there isn't a reasonable conformity to ethics.
 
I can't wait for the republicans to say this is bad because it's a job killer.
 
So "it'll compete"... even though the idea behind the project is to serve rural customers who by definition would not be competition since ISPs have no desire to connect to them.

And it took the cable companies $2 billion to run 6600 miles of fiber, yet the state can run about 2500 miles for $100 million?
 
Wasn't a state trying to build its own network blocked in court before?

I'm not sure, but I seem to recall this has happened in the past.
 
Twisted Kidney said:
Wasn't a state trying to build its own network blocked in court before?

I'm not sure, but I seem to recall this has happened in the past.
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It happens a lot sadly. It just takes a few legislators backed by one of the big three and suddenly any chance of municipal ISP services get thrown out the window.
 
Twisted Kidney said:
Wasn't a state trying to build its own network blocked in court before?

I'm not sure, but I seem to recall this has happened in the past.
Click to expand...

i dont know, but i know south Carolina was the first state to pass a law that banned any municipalities from building one in the state.
 
OEM said:
I can't wait for the republicans to say this is bad because it's a job killer.
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That's entertaining because if you had read the article, you'd know its actually being sponsored by a republican....


Sen. Chris Walters, who’s spearheading the legislation, said the cable companies want to block competition from smaller Internet providers. Walters’ bill aims to improve Internet service and drive down prices in rural parts of the state.

“I’m trying to get people in rural communities off this island,” explained Walters, R-Putnam. “I’m trying to take something to them and create a path where Internet companies can get to them.”

The cable companies and others want no part of Walters’ proposed 2,500-mile broadband network.
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Twisted Kidney said:
Wasn't a state trying to build its own network blocked in court before?

I'm not sure, but I seem to recall this has happened in the past.
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TN.

http://www.timesfreepress.com/news/...20/legislature-gears-broadband-battle/345557/

They were allowed to service their own area, but trying to expand outside were blocked by the state. The FCC wanted to allow it, so they have to go to court later this year to see what happens.

If they allow them out that means that many areas in TN will have the chance to get hooked up.

Not only is fiber optics good for the internet, but it's amazing for the power grids as well.
 
OEM said:
I can't wait for the republicans to say this is bad because it's a job killer.
Click to expand...

I wouldn't get too excited, the party you're profess to be a member of has very little to do with the people you take money from. Big companies always try to make sure they have a thumb in both pies.
 
If there was competition they'd have to compete. That's not a word the big ISPs know or what to know. Anything that even smells like competition is dangerous to their bottom line.
 
WV is so far up Frontiers ass it isn't even funny.

There is a single county out here that sort of said FU to the state and put up its own fiber lines across the whole thing.

Frontier knows if competition shows up then they lose 100% because all they can provide is mostly crappy sub 1mb/sec DSL to most people. VERY few people can get anything more than that from them (I am one of the lucky ones)
 
Also one of Frontiers big wigs or ex big wig in the area is now part of WV government...so even more reason.
 
F... no edit here....

Sad thing is, high speed internet can only help WV. it could/would give business a reason to expand into the state. It is a pretty cheap state to live in. It is so ass backwards out here and what the state needs is more people to get more taxes so that can get us out of the 1800s
 
Remember when this country used to bust monopolies instead of help them along?

Those were the days.
 
The big monopolistic ISP's are scared after seeing the success of municipal gigabit internet by publicly owned ISP's in the few towns/cities that managed to break free of corporate greed. Unfortunately, it is because of those few lucky towns that the big national ISP's have been suing, and buying their way into legislatures to put unnecessary regulations on new startups, if not an outright ban on them.

Obama's internet initiative last year was aimed to fix/reverse all this BS. However like many proposals from him, current congressional leaders obstructed the new rules. He did end up bypassing congress by signing an executive order on this, but to my knowledge, it's still being implemented by the FCC... Hopefully the FCC can implement this soon and stop ISP's from blocking real competition that leads to better speeds/service at a lower price!
 
Similar things have happened here in the UK. Villages that the big operator BT/Openreach cannot be bothered to connect up to decent broadband ask BT to hook them up and BT says they cannot do it for less than £5,000,000 and take two years to do.

Some villages have then called BT's bluff and asked in a independent telecoms contractor to do the job and found it could be done next week for £150,000.

BT have been given millions in tax payers money to hook these villages up but have done next to nothing or at best lip service at a glacial pace.

The free market just doesn't work anymore. It's all got corrupt.
 
Twisted Kidney said:
I wouldn't get too excited, the party you're profess to be a member of has very little to do with the people you take money from. Big companies always try to make sure they have a thumb in both pies.
Click to expand...

Yeah if you are a mega corp and have $50 million in campaign funding you make sure you give $25 million to each contender. One cheque from one division of the corp and the other from another division.

The mega corps get their way whomever wins.
 
Bigbacon said:
WV is so far up Frontiers ass it isn't even funny.

There is a single county out here that sort of said FU to the state and put up its own fiber lines across the whole thing.

Frontier knows if competition shows up then they lose 100% because all they can provide is mostly crappy sub 1mb/sec DSL to most people. VERY few people can get anything more than that from them (I am one of the lucky ones)
Click to expand...


I am in southern WV and Frontier can not guarantee any more than .5mb's, my church is right next to the main frontier yard and can not get .25 mb's sudden link is very limited down here. They still charge the big rate for super slow speeds.

Fortunately a few years ago Comcast ran a main line across the mountain and we were able to get connected. The hillbilly who dropped the line never put a filter on so my pipe is wide open and the other service guys are to afraid/lazy to go up the pole because of crazy access. Unfortunately at my shop in the ghettos by the rail yard I can get frontier but my phone as a hotspot is way faster.

Really doesn't matter since there is NO work here, these clowns keep voting for the same people who shut the coal and railroad down and can't figure it out.

I welcome any and all competition down here, it would force frontier to upgrade there antique busted up salvage equipment.
 
OEM said:
I can't wait for the republicans to say this is bad because it's a job killer.
Click to expand...

Lol at your ignorance.

Dems don't want this, just like they funny wasn't the Keystone pipeline.
 
Megalith said:
Slimy private ISPs down in West Virginia are peeved about a development that would give them a bit of competition.

Cable companies that provide Internet service are working to kill legislation that would create a state-financed $72 million fiber-optic network across West Virginia. Suddenlink, Comcast, Shentel, Time-Warner Cable and other members of the West Virginia Cable Television Association oppose building the high-speed Internet network, saying it’s a waste of money.
Click to expand...

This isn't about competition.

This is about the State funding the expansion of fiber broadband into areas where the ISPs don't see the population density to make it worthwhile.

So the State will tax everyone, use the money to build the infrastructure into low population areas, then force the ISPs to pay the State for the connections as if these businesses had invested in the expansion themselves.

Yea, actually I have a problem with this. I have a problem with a State using tax payer dollars to force unprofitable expansion on companies who in turn will be forced to recoup the costs the only way they can, raising all their customers' rates.

I really have a problem with this when all of these rural customers have the option of Satellite Broadband. No it's not as good as fiber or even cable but living in the sticks has it's benefits and it's costs.
 
This is what happens when you allow regional monopolies to flourish. No one can come into their territories without paying a troll tax.
 
sfsuphysics said:
So "it'll compete"... even though the idea behind the project is to serve rural customers who by definition would not be competition since ISPs have no desire to connect to them.

And it took the cable companies $2 billion to run 6600 miles of fiber, yet the state can run about 2500 miles for $100 million?
Click to expand...

Corporations can do everything cheaper. LOL.

Here, my city power utility built out fiber-to home a few years ago....when all TWC offered was DSL. It is all there and just needed switched on. Time Warner Cable paid a ton of money to the State to have that fiber-network made illegal. To this day it sits dark and unused, while TWC finally got around to offering cable modem service.
 
lcpiper said:
This isn't about competition.

This is about the State funding the expansion of fiber broadband into areas where the ISPs don't see the population density to make it worthwhile.

So the State will tax everyone, use the money to build the infrastructure into low population areas, then force the ISPs to pay the State for the connections as if these businesses had invested in the expansion themselves.

Yea, actually I have a problem with this. I have a problem with a State using tax payer dollars to force unprofitable expansion on companies who in turn will be forced to recoup the costs the only way they can, raising all their customers' rates.

I really have a problem with this when all of these rural customers have the option of Satellite Broadband. No it's not as good as fiber or even cable but living in the sticks has it's benefits and it's costs.
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Dude. Where do you get your data from? This will be open access and open for bidding as the "middle mile" of fiber. Straight from the bill:

(a) The West Virginia Broadband Middle Mile Infrastructure, to include more than two thousand miles of fiber optic cable, shall be owned and operated by the State of West Virginia. The network provided or enhanced by the broadband middle mile infrastructure project shall be open access. Existing broadband infrastructure which meets the required specifications of middle mile fiber threshold with a minimum of one hundred forty-four strands of fiber may be purchased as part of the middle mile infrastructure project. Internet services provided through the broadband middle mile shall be available to both business and residential users as well as to governmental agencies. The cost for access to the middle mile will be the cost of constructing, maintaining and administering the middle mile network as determined by the Water Development Authority. The network shall provide free broadband, data and phone to schools, universities and government buildings in the state who directly connect to the states middle mile. Notwithstanding the open access requirement, Water Development Authority shall reserve at least eight strands of fiber for exclusive use by the state, its instrumentalities and political subdivisions.
(b) The Water Development Authority shall establish zones in the broadband middle mile infrastructure. Each zone of the middle mile infrastructure shall be let for bid separately, to encourage participation by multiple project sponsors. A project sponsor may bid to construct part or all of a zone of the middle mile infrastructure project. As a condition of a contract, a project sponsor may be granted indefeasible rights to use up to twenty percent of the fibers in any number of zones of the broadband middle mile, but may not use more than twenty percent of the fibers in any one zone. No single provider may use more than twenty percent of the fibers in any one zone.
Click to expand...
 
TwistedAegis said:
Dude. Where do you get your data from? This will be open access and open for bidding as the "middle mile" of fiber. Straight from the bill:
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oh fantastic...leave fiber maintenance to a state that can't even maintain anything. We still have more dirt roads than anywhere and they don't touch them even though they made a bunch of them and they even start to pave some of them and then just give up and stop.

they paved 800 feet of my road 10 years ago and never came back. for about 5 years they maintained that 800 feet but have since stopped.
 
OEM said:
I can't wait for the republicans to say this is bad because it's a job killer.
Click to expand...

You know people like you are the reason this country is so f'd up. It's "party A's" fault. No It's always 'Party B's' fault

Grow the f up and get a f'ing clue. I'm sick and tired of such mind numbingly stupid lame ass sheep thinking drival.
 
DigitalGriffin said:
You know people like you are the reason this country is so f'd up. It's "party A's" fault. No It's always 'Party B's' fault

Grow the f up and get a f'ing clue. I'm sick and tired of such mind numbingly stupid lame ass sheep thinking drival.
Click to expand...

Lots of adjectives! Good! Also, I agree with you.
 
DigitalGriffin said:
You know people like you are the reason this country is so f'd up. It's "party A's" fault. No It's always 'Party B's' fault

Grow the f up and get a f'ing clue. I'm sick and tired of such mind numbingly stupid lame ass sheep thinking drival.
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Heaven forbid we actually pin voting habits on our representatives like they are...

I say that as a resident of a state full of republican "conservative" legislators who are quite happy to do what their corporate owners ask.
 
Skripka said:
Heaven forbid we actually pin voting habits on our representatives like they are...

I say that as a resident of a state full of republican "conservative" legislators who are quite happy to do what their corporate owners ask.
Click to expand...

Two two big parties are two heads of the same hydra. Libertarir ftw.
 
Skripka said:
Heaven forbid we actually pin voting habits on our representatives like they are...

I say that as a resident of a state full of republican "conservative" legislators who are quite happy to do what their corporate owners ask.
Click to expand...

It's a tech forum. Stick to tech facts. Save this mindless bull crap for the fox and msnbc and huffington post forums.
 
DigitalGriffin said:
It's a tech forum. Stick to tech facts. Save this mindless bull crap for the fox and msnbc and huffington post forums.
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You're the one shoveling the bull crap.

My state legislators passed a law making public-utility-run fiber illegal (specifically, making it unlawful for a public utility to operate in a market where it competes with a private corporation), at the express request and $peech of Time Warner Cable who administers the local ISP monopoly. The legislature is run 95% by Rs after their name. And it was voted on along party lines.

What is more factual than that?
 
Skripka said:
You're the one shoveling the bull crap.

My state legislators passed a law making public-utility-run fiber illegal (specifically, making it unlawful for a public utility to operate in a market where it competes with a private corporation), at the express request and $peech of Time Warner Cable who administers the local ISP monopoly. The legislature is run 95% by Rs after their name. And it was voted on along party lines.

What is more factual than that?
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The gubernment has no business being in business. They also have no business offering "free" stuff to anyone. It's not the tax payers responsibility to ensure that you are healthy, aren't hungry, have employment, digital tv, interwebs, or anything else. They have a very limit scope of responsibly, which has been stretched by both sides of the aisle. So, regardless of intention and reason, they voted appropriately.

I live in a town (45k pop) with three power providers (city, Bluegrass Energy, and KU), two trash providers(city and whoever it is that just bought Rumpke), two water(city and Kentucky American Water), one Telco(Windstream), and one cableco(TWC).
Because of where I live within city limits, I have city for power, water, and trash. The city buys power from KU then resells it. It's quite a bit cheaper. However, it isn't reliable at all. We lose power for probably 4 hours a month. The city owns and makes a pisspoor attempt at maintaining their grid that they sell off of. I hate it that I'm giving the city money for anything. They have no business being a profitable organization.
 
TwistedAegis said:
Dude. Where do you get your data from? This will be open access and open for bidding as the "middle mile" of fiber. Straight from the bill:
Click to expand...

Dude, this Fiber expansion isn't standalone, it will have to connect to existing commercial communications networks. Read what you quoted again.

Internet services provided through the broadband middle mile shall be available to both business and residential users as well as to governmental agencies.
Click to expand...
Those Internet Services have to come from somewhere, they are not created from thin air.

The cost for access to the middle mile will be the cost of constructing, maintaining and administering the middle mile network as determined by the Water Development Authority.
Click to expand...

This Fiber network doesn't connect to the internet or anywhere else unless it's connected to commercially owned infrastructure. They are passing a law requiring these businesses to make that connection and the costs for access will pay for the project. But if access at the user end is free of cost, then the people paying "The cost for access" is at the other end, the end that is providing the "Internet Services".

You feel free to show me another way to interpret this legislation but this is how I read it. Show me I'm wrong if I am.
 
Oh, and the "open bidding" is primarily bidding for the construction of the zones. Additionally, winners may opt to include in their bids operation of up to 20% of a zone.

They can bid just to build it, but they can choose to also bid on operating up to 20% of a zones' capacity.
 
I think they have good intentions, but the ISP's have some good arguments. Connecting to their existing networks, reaching places they won't support (the little guys want in, though).

Sounds like a good idea. I'd love to have super fast internet and live out in the middle of nowhere. Hell, I'd take anything >25Mb where I'm at. It's just not a good deal to do it, though...
 
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