Trick HTPC into thinking TV is always on?

I

Immortalwon

Weaksauce
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Feb 21, 2002
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Looking for some advice on how to trick my HTPC into thinking the TV is always on. HDMI connection. I am actually running an ESXI Vmware PLEX HTPC with video pasthrough and every-time I turn the TV off the virtual machine thinks the monitor is gone and I lose sound and audio the next time I turn it back on. Is there a low cost way to make the the computer think the monitor is always there?
 
Make the HDMI Audio default. When the TV source is turned off the computer keeps that setting as default for when the TV is back on the audio will default to the HDMI as audio out. I had the same problem for awhile.
 
try something like the gefen hdmi detective. It capture the monitor EDID, it works great for this application.
 
Someone else on this forum had a problem similar to this not too long ago so I'll just copy & paste it here:

That's a common problem. It's a HDCP handshake error and the EDID doesn't pass right. You can try this fix:
http://www.thehtpc.net/htpc-tips-and-tweaks/solving-your-hdmi-handshake-issues-once-and-for-all/

I tried it on my HTPC and it did not work for me. How I get around it on my HTPC is I start playing something with audio and turn the AVR off and on and then sound works again.

If that doesn't work you can buy the Dr. HDMI device:
http://www.monoprice.com/product?p_...m=11064683&utm_term=KB+Networks,+Inc.-2959392
 
Another option is if you have one of those hdmi splitters, some also do edid capture and build a hybrid profile for all the output devices (lowest common denominator). I did the same thing a while back, esxi vm with ATI -> hdmi splitter and ran them into different rooms.
 
Yeah, you need an HDMI Doctor. Common problem. I have one from Gefen that works great.
 
I see more and more people running their HTPC in VMware. Can anybody explain the logic in this? I'm so confused.
 
Verge said:
I see more and more people running their HTPC in VMware. Can anybody explain the logic in this? I'm so confused.
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Greater reliability, redundancy and performance for each VM.

For example. My WMC runs bare metal. At the same time I run plex, a torrent client and VMware to emulate me some more OS's. If someone is watching TV and I need to do something to plex for example, its now a problem. If I need to tweak the VM's, its now a problem. The other problem is to get more VM's, I need to run Vmware on the host OS. Thankfully I am not doing anything CPU intensive so I dont need them to have baremetal access to resources. BUT the real problem is this, if my wife decides to browse the web on the HTPC and hoses that install of windows, I am going to lose all my VM's, my plex server and the torrent client. With everything running as guest os's on a baremetal hypervisor, it would only hose that one VM for the HTPC and i'd only have to lose one application.
 
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Verge said:
I see more and more people running their HTPC in VMware. Can anybody explain the logic in this? I'm so confused.
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There is a free version of VMWARE called ESXI. Now ESXI can be installed on a PC but you want to do your research on what is supported. VMWARE can be picky about motherboards, network cards, SATA controllers, etc. If you do your homework one can add drivers to ESXI that will support old PCI cards. So you can build one of these machines on the cheap. I good Google query is "ESXI Whitebox"

The logic is simply convenience. Less maintenance and less energy. I was able to condense several old computers into virtual machines running on a single older server computer. ESXI shares the memory, hard drives, and CPU's very efficiently. On one real machine I am running virtual machines for a squeezebox PC, PLEX PC, FREENAS, Ubunto, UPS software, etc. You can also take snapshots of these machines and back them up easily.

There is also a cool thing called pass-through which allows you to dedicate a specific device to a given virtual machine. To make an awesome HTPC I simply passed through an old Radeon 4550 card with HDMI and a USB 3.0 on the virtual PLEX PC.

Runs great, full HD movies with surround. No hesitation or buffering. The only bug was losing the audio/video settings when I turn the TV off.
 
Immortalwon said:
There is a free version of VMWARE called ESXI. Now ESXI can be installed on a PC but you want to do your research on what is supported. VMWARE can be picky about motherboards, network cards, SATA controllers, etc. If you do your homework one can add drivers to ESXI that will support old PCI cards. So you can build one of these machines on the cheap. I good Google query is "ESXI Whitebox"

The logic is simply convenience. Less maintenance and less energy. I was able to condense several old computers into virtual machines running on a single older server computer. ESXI shares the memory, hard drives, and CPU's very efficiently. On one real machine I am running virtual machines for a squeezebox PC, PLEX PC, FREENAS, Ubunto, UPS software, etc. You can also take snapshots of these machines and back them up easily.

There is also a cool thing called pass-through which allows you to dedicate a specific device to a given virtual machine. To make an awesome HTPC I simply passed through an old Radeon 4550 card with HDMI and a USB 3.0 on the virtual PLEX PC.

Runs great, full HD movies with surround. No hesitation or buffering. The only bug was losing the audio/video settings when I turn the TV off.
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So you have like a full fledged desktop, and want multiple roles on it. I've always ran the smallest HTPC possible with hardware acceleration and hit everything over the network.

Makes sense, I see lots of other doing the same on various forums and was just curious.
 
Verge said:
So you have like a full fledged desktop, and want multiple roles on it. I've always ran the smallest HTPC possible with hardware acceleration and hit everything over the network.

Makes sense, I see lots of other doing the same on various forums and was just curious.
Click to expand...

Yes in a sense (I am no expert) but ESXI is more of a self contained OS itself called a HYPERVISOR. It is the first thing to boot. You can install it to USB flash drive from a CD. Once booted you can access the HYPERVISOR from a browser window or a client (free too) called vSphere. From there you pretty much create your virtual PC's as you like or download existing ones. Pretty much any OS you can think of. There is also free software that converts real PC's to virtual machines which you can import.
 
Immortalwon said:
Yes in a sense (I am no expert) but ESXI is more of a self contained OS itself called a HYPERVISOR. It is the first thing to boot. You can install it to USB flash drive from a CD. Once booted you can access the HYPERVISOR from a browser window or a client (free too) called vSphere. From there you pretty much create your virtual PC's as you like or download existing ones. Pretty much any OS you can think of. There is also free software that converts real PC's to virtual machines which you can import.
Click to expand...

Its called a Host OS and everything that runs on it is a Guest OS. ;)

We have a great virtualization forum for this stuff.
 
Verge said:
So you have like a full fledged desktop, and want multiple roles on it. I've always ran the smallest HTPC possible with hardware acceleration and hit everything over the network.

Makes sense, I see lots of other doing the same on various forums and was just curious.
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Its just a different approach. You can consolidate roles into one uber box or break them out to special purpose boxes. User preference.
 
So a little update, the HDMI Doctor worked perfect. Another problem showed up where the streaming video would go black if opened on the TV versus the virtual monitor. Took a shot and upgraded the Virtual Machine OS to Windows 10. Everything works flawlessly now. Go figure.
 
The Lurker said:
i missed this too.

I wonder if it will help with HDCP handshake issues. If the screen never actually disappears it shouldnt really affect the handshake that was already established.

What has your experience been?
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I haven't had any HDMI handshake issues after installing it. Actually I haven't had any issues with the PC/receiver/TV HDMI connection at all since this went in the mix.
 
malacoda said:
I haven't had any HDMI handshake issues after installing it. Actually I haven't had any issues with the PC/receiver/TV HDMI connection at all since this went in the mix.
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How many did you need and where did you install it in the chain?

I actually emailed the people selling it and a polite gentlemen, Leo, and I had a very nice conversation regarding HDCP handshaking. He says I was the first person to raise the question. He recommended 2 as he was not 100% certain regarding the effectiveness of one. He said one should be at the video card and second at the monitor out from the receiver. I think more than one is pointless honestly.
 
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I think some video cards indicate if you're transmission path is hdcp compliant in the control panel if the vendor is willing to check for you. I suspect these devices don't count as an HDMI device any more than a cable counts as an HDMI device as far as hdcp is concerned since hdcp is just a protocol that needs to be supported by an active device while the HDMI doctors really just intercept and respond to the edid packet while passing through everything else it doesn't recognize.
 
Exactly. None of these are detectable, as far as the computer knows it doesnt even exist. How they work is different though.

The HDMI doctor has the brains to copy the displays EDID information and continue repeating it to the source, and even accepting custom EDID information for those displays or projectors that do not provide them, then fooling the source into thinking that the device is always there while giving you exactly what you want on the output.

The monitor detect killer is a much more rudimentary device. I will put money on it simply cutting off one of the legs in the HDMI cable that is responsible for transmitting the detection signal when a device is connected. The source captures the EDID information once and then is fooled into thinking the display is always present because it never transmits that it disconnected. This helps with handshake issues because the computer never has to re-initiate it everytime the display disconnects.

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Probably pin 19 - hot plug detect.

http://electronics.howstuffworks.com/hdmi2.htm - search: hot plug detect

http://www.ni.com/white-paper/12680/en/ - search: hot-plug-detect
 
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Also found some instructions to DIY:
Solder a +-10k resistor between pin 18 19.
If you want a fancy button to reset the detection (to force rechecking of screen)
add a button with wires to pin 19 and and 17 to pull the signal low.

Relevant pins:
17 — GND
18 — 5v (0.05amp max, 5v/0.05 = 100ohms so 10.000r is safe enough.
19 — hot plug detect (active high, disconnect low)

I used a 10k 805 smd resistor, its mostly the same thickness as the backside of the HDMI plug so it can be placed directly to the plug. You can also use a wire resistor, but please do add some heat shrink.
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And another DIY Solution.

Here is my solution about this problem, which is an extend version of pin 19 block (for advanced users).

After I saw the solution with the 19 pin block and try it out, I found that my integrated video card can't detect in any way the connected monitor if this pin was blocked. Also, there are no any extended options or anything to force the detection of the monitor. So, after a little digging, I saw that usually, wen a device is plugged in the HDMI port, this pin gets a +5V signal, which comes from another pin in the HDMI cable, and this is the 18 pin.

So, in short. If you have a low cost video card without any settings to force the monitor detection, you well need an 1K Ohm resistor (from any junk electronics), flexible HDMI adapter and a little soldering skills.

Open the HDMI adapter and from the female side, disconnect the wire to pin 19. Then solder the 1k Ohm resistor to the disconnected wire and the wire on pin 18. Be sure that the pin 18 wire is still connected to it's place and not shorted with any other pins! Wrap some isolation on the resistor and the wire, and you are ready.

Use the adapter from the computer side. First plug the adapter to the cable, and then to the computer. Once the cable with the adapter is connected, the monitor will be detected and will not dispersal until you unplug the cable/adapter.

WTWSl3A.jpg
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Looks like the MDK guys are selling an elbow adapter with the same modification, looks just like the picture above.
 
So. I picked up 3 elbows from monoprice for 10 bucks, and im going to attempt it.
 
Check this out: http://www.microprocessor.org/HDMISpecification13a.pdf

Search: "8.5 Hot Plug Detect Signal"

You will find:
An HDMI Sink shall not assert high voltage level on its Hot Plug Detect pin when the E-EDID is not available for reading. This requirement shall be fulfilled at all times, even if the Sink is powered-off or in standby. The Hot Plug Detect pin may be asserted only when the +5V Power line from the Source is detected. This will ensure that the Hot Plug Detect pin is not asserted before the Third Make of the connector (see Section 4.1.5). A Source may use a high voltage level Hot Plug Detect signal to initiate the reading of E-EDID data. A Source shall assume hat any voltage within the range specified for High voltage level in Table 4-26 indicates that a Sink is connected and that E-EDID is readable. It does not indicate whether or not the Sink is powered or whether or not the HDMI input on the Sink is selected or active. An HDMI Sink shall indicate any change to the contents of the E-EDID by driving a low voltage level pulse on the Hot Plug Detect pin. his pulse shall be at least 100 msec.​
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Search: "Table 4-26 Required Detection Levels for Hot Plug Detect Signal"

You will find this:

Note that many Sink devices simply connect the HPD signal to the +5V Power signal through a 1000 ohm resistor. It may therefore be necessary for a Source to pull-down the HPD signal in order to reliably differentiate between a floating (disconnected) HPD and a high voltage level HPD signal
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What this is basically saying, the source(video card) sends a 5v signal, it runs into the TV or Receiver(my money is on it passing it through) and the TV connects the +5v to pin 19 which is sent back to the source where it detects the pin 19 has +5v now. This triggers it to detect the EDID. SO! By permanently attaching the +5V to pin 19, the video card will forever think the "sink" device is always there after the initial connection and will never be called to re-detect the EDID.
 
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The Lurker said:
How many did you need and where did you install it in the chain?

I actually emailed the people selling it and a polite gentlemen, Leo, and I had a very nice conversation regarding HDCP handshaking. He says I was the first person to raise the question. He recommended 2 as he was not 100% certain regarding the effectiveness of one. He said one should be at the video card and second at the monitor out from the receiver. I think more than one is pointless honestly.
Click to expand...

I have one at the PC. I looked into making my own from some elbows but by then I was getting so much grief from the wife about the HDMI issues I ordered the detectkiller. Once I hooked it up that was the last I heard of any HDMI issues
 
I have never experienced this issue with HDMI but I do have that issue with DP. When I turn off my monitor, computer makes the disconnected device sound and my desktop shifts over to the other monitor connected with DVI.
It does shift back when I turn the monitor back on though.
 
Zepher said:
I have never experienced this issue with HDMI but I do have that issue with DP. When I turn off my monitor, computer makes the disconnected device sound and my desktop shifts over to the other monitor connected with DVI.
It does shift back when I turn the monitor back on though.
Click to expand...

Not surprised. Read the part I have in bold in the HDMI spec. Turning off the monitor does not trigger the hot plug detect, only unplugging it does.
 
IT WORKS!

Play channel, turn off TV, audio continues playing into receiver.

Play a copy once channel, turn off TV, turn back on, playback continues without a single hiccup.

I bought 3 elbows from monoprice. Sadly they are not easy to get apart as they are glued around the seam. Had to tap a razor into each side and carefully pry the case apart. I ruined one because I tried solder directly to the connector but the pads were to close to each other and ended up with a short. The second try, I melted a small section of insulation off of the middle of the wire going to pin 18 and desoldering the wire from 19. I attached the resistor that way, put some heatshrink tube on it and shoved it all back into the case.

Oh, and I used 1/4 watt resistors. Anything bigger would not have fit.
 
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I also use the "MonitorDetectKiller" hardware piece to override the EDID handshake and trick the PC into thinking it's always 'on' they work well especially on my signage PCs.
 
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