Massive Windows 10 News Hides 5 Nasty Surprises

Foxhack said:
I don't understand how Europe isn't going after Microsoft over this. The simple fact that they refuse to say the extent of the data they collect should cause a lot of people to notice it.
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The Europeans probably will. But it takes time to collect all the facts and then build the legal case. Microsoft could end up with more than just a bloody nose over this one.
 
x509 said:
The Europeans probably will. But it takes time to collect all the facts and then build the legal case. Microsoft could end up with more than just a bloody nose over this one.
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Not sure though how they'd just single out Microsoft as common as data collection and leverage is these days.
 
^ good point. I've had good luck with majorgeeks in the past, but a good precaution anyway.

Couldn't find a link on bleepingcomputer.
 
couldn't you check the Hash on the mirror vs safer networking to see if they are the same ?
 
I really don't think Microsoft is collecting anything that you need to be concerned about. I mean how many of you are using Android with google services (gmail, drive, etc etc) and we never heard complaints about that? I do wish Microsoft would come clean and explain exactly what they are collecting though.
 
x509 said:
The Europeans probably will. But it takes time to collect all the facts and then build the legal case. Microsoft could end up with more than just a bloody nose over this one.
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It didn't take them long to tell MS they had to do that goofy browser election thing.

Besides, all the internet detectives who are absolutely, 100%, undeniably sure, without ANY doubt, that MS is collecting something outside of what they say they are collecting, have already done all the thorough investigative work. All they do is turn that stuff over to the EU and the EU drops the 40 ton hammer.
 
AltTabbins said:
I really don't think Microsoft is collecting anything that you need to be concerned about. I mean how many of you are using Android with google services (gmail, drive, etc etc) and we never heard complaints about that? I do wish Microsoft would come clean and explain exactly what they are collecting though.
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There's been plenty of complaining about Google data collection.
 
AltTabbins said:
I really don't think Microsoft is collecting anything that you need to be concerned about. I mean how many of you are using Android with google services (gmail, drive, etc etc) and we never heard complaints about that? I do wish Microsoft would come clean and explain exactly what they are collecting though.
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That kind of highlights the difference. On most Android devices, most if not all of the data sharing can be avoided by not using services or specific apps (for example, any email client instead of the GMail app). Don't like Google Now? Replace the launcher. Don't want to sync to cloud? Turn it off. The net result is a fairly private Android device*, at least from the OS perspective (individual apps may do lots of things if you give it permission to do so before installing).

Contrast that with disabling all data collection options on Windows 10, where MS STILL sends Cortana data, still contacts cloud storage services that aren't even enabled, all start menu searches, and who the hell knows what MS is encrypting in proxy bypassing traffic (no, it's not simple telemetry). MS tracks what you are using, how you are using it, and with unfortunate defaults can pretty much transfer and "analyze" any file it sees fit to. That is beyond the "standard" and into horrifically invasive.

* individual carriers are probably doing nasty things on some devices, so YMMV with your SUCKY phone service. :p

And as far as MS explaining what it's doing: that's not even the biggest problem. MS doesn't even have basic privacy controls working in Windows 10, and it's unlikely to be a mistake.
 
Regardless of data collection policies, it remains an excellent OS, besides some issues about Metro apps, its faster than 7/8 (how many OS's can you say that about?), they fixed the usability issues in 8, and I honestly don't think why people complain about using an MS account, it provides a bunch of useful features.
 
MrCrispy said:
Regardless of data collection policies, it remains an excellent OS, besides some issues about Metro apps, its faster than 7/8 (how many OS's can you say that about?), they fixed the usability issues in 8, and I honestly don't think why people complain about using an MS account, it provides a bunch of useful features.
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Metro...It works on a phone, but not on my desktop. How much faster is it then 7/8?
MS account? If I wanted one, I would get one.


I like having choices.
 
If you want to use Google services, you setup an account with them. Same for MS.

The OS gives you clear choices and options, what exactly is the problem? And why do so many sites and people spread FUD about MS account integrated in Windows? Combine that with the OneDrive storage, sync etc and it only benefits users with no downsides. And you're free not to use it.

It's a ridiculous double standard.
 
Raudulfr said:
There is choice:

Use Microsoft account
Use local account


No one is forced to use a Microsoft account.
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Does nothing to stop spyware. All the background data is still collected and shipped off.

All it changes is your access to the appstore crap.
 
MrCrispy said:
If you want to use Google services, you setup an account with them. Same for MS.

The OS gives you clear choices and options, what exactly is the problem? And why do so many sites and people spread FUD about MS account integrated in Windows? Combine that with the OneDrive storage, sync etc and it only benefits users with no downsides. And you're free not to use it.

It's a ridiculous double standard.
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"Clear choices" - right, as if the local account option isn't intentionally obfuscated and made super tiny so people don't see it during setup.
 
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Raudulfr said:
There is choice:

Use Microsoft account
Use local account


No one is forced to use a Microsoft account.
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Not exactly an exciting option there. If they truly wanted to be innovative with bringing the OS to the world of the web, they'd facilitate the use of the many different account providers people already use - through OAuth or the like. The web provided a platform for sharing and collaboration, but now it's just a collection of silos and one way data flows (ex. Every big service is an OAuth provider, few also offer consumption.)

IMO true innovation in the interest of the OS of would be working in a consortium to standardize interfacing with all duplicate services being provided. Google drive/mail/apps, Microsoft OneDrive/mail/webapps, Apple iCloud Drive/mail/webapps, Amazon Cloud Drive/{ room for more }, SelfHosted OwnCloud/Mail/LibreOffice Online... Authentication, storage, e-mail, and web applications are not something that the world is in short supply of and could be standardized to be accessed uniformly by operating systems.

Of course in this pipe dream, I'd like to see it be real and open collaboration.. not an agreed upon standard that a company then extends in their own implementation to differentiate.
 
Frobozz said:
Of course in this pipe dream, I'd like to see it be real and open collaboration.. not an agreed upon standard that a company then extends in their own implementation to differentiate.
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Most of this would depend on the willingness of companies to bring their products to other platforms. Google won't even develop a YouTube app for Windows though about a half-dozen ISVs have. Meanwhile Microsoft has bought Office, OneDrive and even Cortana to iOS and Android.
 
heatlesssun said:
Most of this would depend on the willingness of companies to bring their products to other platforms. Google won't even develop a YouTube app for Windows though about a half-dozen ISVs have. Meanwhile Microsoft has bought Office, OneDrive and even Cortana to iOS and Android.
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Not necessarily >bringing their products< to other platforms (there's cost/effort per platform to port your particular thing), but opening their products by standardizing how you interact with them. Then you could have pluggable storage/authentication systems without having to build unique solutions for each cloud storage/app provider. I don't think there's enough collaborative energy between these entities to make anything remotely like that happen (hence the pipe dream.) It'd be nice if software as a service had the same ubiquity as the floppy drive did or HTTP today.

I realize that this is the main business battlefield at the moment, and the big players involved see siloing as profit protection. so .. yeah... it's just wishful thinking and I acknowledge that.

I guess a short rehash of my previous post: "It'd be cool if you could login with your Google/Amazon/Facebook/Apple/Newegg/HardForum/SelfHostedSolution account and have it 'just work' instead of having to sign up for yet another user account with another company. IMO, we already have enough accounts to keep up with."
 
heatlesssun said:
Most of this would depend on the willingness of companies to bring their products to other platforms. Google won't even develop a YouTube app for Windows though about a half-dozen ISVs have. Meanwhile Microsoft has bought Office, OneDrive and even Cortana to iOS and Android.
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Windows doesn't need a Metro app for YouTube. Browser. Something other than crashy Edge - which is a metro app.

Windows Phone doesn't need a YouTube app because Windows Phone barely exists.

MS has brought Office/OneDrive/Cortana to iOS/ANdroid because they had to, because they're desperate, and would only be further behind if they didn't. Not for any altruistic reasons.

You'll be free to complain about lack of Google metro apps the day Microsoft brings Office to Linux. Until then, Google's only doing what MS has demonstrably done time and again when in the same dominant marketshare position.
 
DPI said:
Windows Phone doesn't need a YouTube app because Windows Phone barely exists.
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I think it's more basic than that. Companies generally don't want to port over successful products to competitors' platforms. It took MS several years to port over the mobile version of Office to Android and iOS, and only because it serves MS interests to prop up its proprietary file formats.

Nothing would prevent MS from making a native YouTube app. The API and developer key are available to registered developers. I've used non-Google YouTube apps (on Maemo and Symbian), so it's not like Google is required to be directly involved. It looks more like MS is letting (snicker) interested developers make solutions to that problem rather than just include an in house YouTube app.
 
DPI said:
Windows doesn't need a Metro app for YouTube. Browser. Something other than crashy Edge - which is a metro app.
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Strange, I use YouTube with Edge all of the with no issues on a number of machine. As someone that makes comments about Surface devices from time to time however, I'd think you might actually have some idea that perhaps touch optimized apps are better than desktop oriented web sites for tablet use. Even so, something like HyperTube is a better video player than an embedded Flash or HTML5 video player even on a desktop. The better YouTube players are actually among the most popular apps in the Windows Store.

DPI said:
Windows Phone doesn't need a YouTube app because Windows Phone barely exists.
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Just like desktop Linux. In any case these are the kinds of platforms that need all the app support they can get.

DPI said:
MS has brought Office/OneDrive/Cortana to iOS/ANdroid because they had to, because they're desperate, and would only be further behind if they didn't. Not for any altruistic reasons.
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Never said it was for altruistic reasons. Altruism isn't typically a motive of for-profit companies.

DPI said:
You'll be free to complain about lack of Google metro apps the day Microsoft brings Office to Linux. Until then, Google's only doing what MS has demonstrably done time and again when in the same dominant marketshare position.
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[/QUOTE]

Well if Windows phone doesn't need a YouTube player than why would desktop Linux need a native version of Office? Companies go with markets. For instance, there is a YouTube player for the Xbox isn't there?
 
heatlesssun said:
Or not. There's still the Windows Store, modern apps, etc. that you have complained about. Essentially I think you want Windows 7 N or whatever it's called.
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Well you see the really cool thing about not having blind allegiance or personal financial interests tangled up in one's opinion or assessment of something as inanimate as operating system software, is the ability to re-evaluate and change one's opinion at any time.

And things like a real telemetry Off switch, plus the ability to decide on updates for myself rather than getting them force-fed, are two things that would make me think "okay I can ignore the other parts of this OS that hold no value for me personally".

But it's adorable how you're keeping track. ;)
 
DPI said:
Well you see the really cool thing about not having blind allegiance or personal financial interests tangled up in one's opinion or assessment of something as inanimate as operating system software, is the ability to re-evaluate and change one's opinion at any time.

And things like a real telemetry Off switch, plus the ability to decide on updates for myself rather than getting them force-fed, are two things that would make me think "okay I can ignore the other parts of this OS that hold no value for me personally".

But it's adorable how you're keeping track. ;)
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If there were a better alternative to Windows 10 that supports the hardware and software I use daily then I'd use that. It's just that simple and why Windows has long dominated the desktop space. It has it's problems but it has the best support there is for desktop OSes. I've said time and time again that's why I use it, indeed it is the ONLY reason to use it.
 
Mathematician said:
Why should I care if they want to know how many hours I log in their OS?? If they ask me I'd just tell them, it's not a big deal at all.
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They won't ask just take.

Its already been said before, its not a big deal if they asked, but they did not.
 
Now they come out with this: Microsoft updates support policy: New CPUs will require Windows 10

http://www.zdnet.com/article/micros...cpus-will-require-windows-10/#ftag=YHFb1d24ec

Going forward, as new silicon generations are introduced, they will require the latest Windows platform at that time for support... Windows 10 will be the only supported Windows platform on Intel's upcoming "Kaby Lake" silicon, Qualcomm's upcoming "8996" silicon, and AMD's upcoming "Bristol Ridge" silicon.

The policy will be phased in beginning with systems based on Intel's new 6th-generation CPUs (code-named Skylake), which debuted a few months ago. New consumer-based Skylake devices must run Windows 10 to be supported.

For enterprise customers that want to buy "future proof" new hardware based on Skylake processors running older Windows versions, Microsoft will publish "a list of specific new Skylake devices we will support to run Windows 7 and Windows 8.1." That support will run for a period 18 months, until July 17, 2017, after which those enterprise customers will be expected to upgrade to Windows 10.
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I guess we will all be Assimilated...
 
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Executioner said:
Now they come out with this: Microsoft updates support policy: New CPUs will require Windows 10
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Yep. just posted a thread about it before seeing this. Another article about this change:

http://arstechnica.com/information-...ers-given-18-months-to-upgrade-to-windows-10/

Basically... upgrade to 10 or drop Windows.

At this point, I'm strongly considering biting the bullet and just running everything i need from Windows in a VM on Linux. I'm getting tired of this shit.
 
AltTabbins said:
What would running things in a Windows vm solve? You are still running Windows.
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An older version that is independent of the hardware. Only reason I continue to run Windows is for specific applications which will never be updated.
 
I'm more pissed about this update that came back after it's reboot and said "we've removed your Windows 7 sidebar gadget program because it's incompatible with Windows 10"

Bull fucking shit -- it's compatible just fine, they just felt like removing it because they can.
 
control control control, MS seems to be going down the Apple route of "we know what is best for you so we can make more money.."
 
collegeboy69us said:
I'm more pissed about this update that came back after it's reboot and said "we've removed your Windows 7 sidebar gadget program because it's incompatible with Windows 10"

Bull fucking shit -- it's compatible just fine, they just felt like removing it because they can.
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Microsoft stopped supporting gadgets for Windows 7 even before Windows 8 was released: "Gadgets are no longer available on our website because the Windows Sidebar platform in Windows 7 and Windows Vista has serious vulnerabilities." Gadgets still worked if you wanted to use them, but it wasn't recommended.

Windows 8 dropped support for gadgets completely in favor of live tiles on the start screen (yeah, pointless as a desktop convenience). The feature has been removed for 2 major Windows releases. Windows 7 desktop gadgets are not compatible with Windows 10 or Windows 8 or Windows 8.1.
 
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