Before asking NCASE about Micro-ATX...

Acapella75 said:
Is the Raven 90 degree motherboard layout patented? That seems like a great orientation for air cooling.
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I really like the the rotated design for a roomy uATX case, it is a very good candidate design IMO. I doubt it really makes a big difference for air-cooling performance (even if Silverstone claims it does). The chimney effect is very minimal in such a short chimney.It does have some very cosmetic advantages however.

Basically by flipping the airflow vents from being front&bottom ---> back to bottom&back ---> top you gain improved cleanliness (word?) on all sides.

  1. The front facia can be made totally clean as it needs no vents.
  2. The back can be made very clean as it needs no wiring.
  3. The top can be made very clean by having a panel cover the wiring (similar to Silverstones cases). Additionally I think there is room to innovate here by having built-in cable routing clips/channel at the top to bundle up all the cables. The result is that the cables coming out at the back is neatly organized.

The big disadvantage is that the case needs quite a bit more height to accomodate for the cables. This is somewhat offset by not having a cable mess on the back that takes up room.
 
Acapella75 said:
Is the Raven 90 degree motherboard layout patented? That seems like a great orientation for air cooling.
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That would be amazing. The 90 degree mb orientation with that G5 wing at the bottom would be great for cooling.

Edit: This design with 2, 120mm intakes at the bottom would be perfect:

X35JsIQm.jpg
 
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itschop said:
That would be amazing. The 90 degree mb orientation with that G5 wing at the bottom would be great for cooling.

Edit: This design with 2, 120mm intakes at the bottom would be perfect:

X35JsIQm.jpg
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A vertical layout would be taller than it is deep, due partly to the necessary cable cover:



Ignoring the potential strength issues with that style of foot, the design would look awkward with these proportions, IMO.
 
This reminds me of Silverstone's FT03 case, a vertical mATX case with a small squarish footprint. Maybe Necere should take a stab at that layout?
 
Necere said:
Ignoring the potential strength issues with that style of foot, the design would look awkward with these proportions, IMO.
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I agree about the awkwardness.


I have wanted to ask you, are those images created in AutoCad? I have Maya experience and woould like to play around with designing the case. Any chance I could get the guts of a case to play with (i.e. MB, GPU, fans etc) in .obj or something like that?
 
sunefred said:
I have wanted to ask you, are those images created in AutoCad? I have Maya experience and woould like to play around with designing the case. Any chance I could get the guts of a case to play with (i.e. MB, GPU, fans etc) in .obj or something like that?
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I use Sketchup. You can grab the file with the components here.
 
Random thought... how consistent is the CPU position in Micro-ATX?

Because if it is consistent, I can see a way around the issues with watercooling for air travel, and for heavy heatsinks for mechanical durability, that would allow for a smaller case. (Watercooling gives room for the power supply to be over the motherboard, which can make things much more compact.)

Basically, create an AIO-shaped aircooler that instead of a waterblock, hoses, and a radiator, has heatpipes to a fixed location huge heatsink that's mounted to the chassis.
 
Necere said:
I use Sketchup. You can grab the file with the components here.
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Necere, thanks for the files.


I thought you guys might want to check out Corsairs new clean case designs because it is related to what we are talking about. It is basically a 1c design for ATX. Still that Corsair is moving in our direction in terms of the lack of 5.25 inch slots and the clear airflow design, talks to the strength of our idea. Ofcourse we already knew our ideas were valid and strong =)

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The cases are the Corsair Carbide 400Q and 400C where the C is the windowed version. For ATX this is now my favorite case.

For a 1c micro ATX, imagine removing the height of three expansion slots and possibly shorten the case a few cm. Then add some Necere grade design. Perfection.
 
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It's a little less minimalist and compact than the S340 (42L vs 38L). On the other hand, having a silenced/windowless option is great.
 
The S340 isn't 38L unfortunately, as that calculation doesn't include the feet. When I placed it next to the the FT05 in person (46L) they were nearly identical.
 
"Nearly identical" doesn't cut it when the difference in width alone would account for ~4L. Real numbers are needed.

We also don't know if Corsair's measurement include the feet.
 
I don't own either the S340 or FT05 anymore, so I can't do the measurements myself. You'll have to rely on someone else for the actual volume of the S340.

Corsair typically includes feet in their calculations, but this could be an edge case.
 
I looked at shots of the back of both the S340 and 400Q and couldn't point to any specific area that would account for the ~20mm height difference between the two, so you could very well be right.
 
While I'm at it, here's a 30-something liter ATX concept I did a little while back:



Those are dual 180mm fans in front.
 
Wow, that front section reminds me of the monolith in 2001: A Space Odyssey!
 
Necere said:
New minimalist 30L concept, with novel-ish intake design:

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Amazing, a really well-balanced monolithic design. No perforations except the back, I'm impressed. Knowing you this won't be thermally limited to a baked potato too. I'm strangely compelled to throw stacks of money at my screen.

make-it-so-captain.jpg
 
I have to say that those concepts look nice.

I felt inspired by that and made 20L SFF concept with similar looks but yet another configuration.

pF5KwPi.jpg

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Putting SFX-L over the gpu's can be an interesting idea if you still want to use tall cpu coolers while maintaining the fans in front of the case.

After putting together this 20L concept and define R5 I now get that 20L can still be considered SFF in this segment :)
 
Personally I'd rather have more GPU cooling options than CPU cooling options with mATX. two GPUs could generate 400-550W while a CPU would generate 90-150W. Your concept does reduce size but it also limits the case to reference GPUs mainly. This might be acceptable for Lian-Li and <10L boxes, but for these volumes I'd expect to be able to mount a Strix or Windforce card.

I do like your ATX support idea and the PSU cable gutter, but it's basically lost space with the gap in between for no reason except to hide it's size. But maybe storage could go there ?
 
SaperPL said:
pF5KwPi.jpg

hE91iaj.jpg

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PKvuIdA.jpg

FdhQf1U.jpg

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I've made a quick render for this too:

vqdp245.jpg
Phuncz said:
Personally I'd rather have more GPU cooling options than CPU cooling options with mATX. two GPUs could generate 400-550W while a CPU would generate 90-150W. Your concept does reduce size but it also limits the case to reference GPUs mainly. This might be acceptable for Lian-Li and <10L boxes, but for these volumes I'd expect to be able to mount a Strix or Windforce card.

I do like your ATX support idea and the PSU cable gutter, but it's basically lost space with the gap in between for no reason except to hide it's size. But maybe storage could go there ?
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For now it's just a concept - I just put together bunch of external pieces. Of course we should take some average pcb oversize into account but I think supporting strix is not something we can think about if we want to put psu over the gpu.

The supported card length on the other hand is something worth tweaking.

While I get that there's a lot big cards to pick from I think that at this point we have a lot nice mid-range and high end reference cards with blowers so targeting just those card sizes might still be okay.

The "fake feet" gutters give such benefits:
1) You may fit full ATX board in mATX like looking case
2) the ssd's can be connected with 90 degree plugs
3) it's a gutter for long psu cables as you said.
4) it's additional exhaust area even if tiny but still for the open air gpu's

Of course it's a bit of lost space like you said. I think with few additional mm you could put 3.5" drive there externally/between those feet. On the other hand if you were to make it part of the case internal space than it wouldn't deceive your perception of space as it is now(at least trying). This idea could also be used to make an inlet for gpu cooling.

I generally like the idea of making such 20L tops case with psu either over gpu's or cpu. It's kind of possible to make this swappable as well so you can choose the config you like more.
 
Hi guys, first time poster here. Last week I went from a YouTube video to speccing out my next build in the M1 to reading almost all posts in this thread. I am now posting to keep up to date as I am planning my next build in the M1 with some future-proofing in mind and going mATX opens SLI possibilities, which I am sure we'll benefit from with the advent of VR (also interested, particularly for Elite Dangerous).

I must say I am astonished at the power of the community. These past few days of reading posts and Necere's interaction with the folks in this thread has proven to me why a project like the M1 was not only taken successfully to production and shortly after in backers hands, but now on it's 5th revision, all with the community's help and feedback. It is a wonderful experience for a technology enthusiast to witness the entire process of creating a new product from rough idea inception to first renders, and so forth. I especially like the very educated, polite and collaborative discussion, and it is good to see that a good idea can still get a bunch of strangers together to form a group of highly passionate people who are willing to invest countless hours of their personal time in a project that will be enjoyed by many other strangers.

In full height of the democratization of technology, information and resources, it is wonderful to see the community taking advantage of this to bring forth their wildest (or perhaps not so wild, but the most personal nonetheless) ideas from screen to product. I am happy to be part of this process, even if as a mere spectator. You have my attention!
 
SaperPL said:
I have to say that those concepts look nice.

I felt inspired by that and made 20L SFF concept with similar looks but yet another configuration.

pF5KwPi.jpg

hE91iaj.jpg

wnrQ90d.jpg

PKvuIdA.jpg

FdhQf1U.jpg

2jDSvRp.jpg

bkKOPqG.jpg

dMZVDTu.jpg

Putting SFX-L over the gpu's can be an interesting idea if you still want to use tall cpu coolers while maintaining the fans in front of the case.

After putting together this 20L concept and define R5 I now get that 20L can still be considered SFF in this segment :)
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I don't think PSU next to the GPU(s) is a great idea since even blower cards vent some of their exhaust out the sides, and the last thing an SFX PSU needs is preheated intake air.

pazoo said:
The side intakes look really nice.
What would be the volume if you keep this exact configuration but replace the atx psu with an sfx?
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About 1.8 liter difference, from 30.4L to 28.56L. And that's entirely height reduction (-23mm), which isn't typically the most useful dimension to reduce. I don't think it's worth it, personally. In my mind, this concept is targeted more at low noise and/or high performance SLI systems, so ATX PSU support is justified.
 
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Necere said:
I don't think PSU next to the GPU(s) is a great idea since even blower cards vent some of their exhaust out the sides, and the last thing an SFX PSU needs is preheated intake air.
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I would agree with that if not for the front fans pumping fresh air all the time. It might be a problem with recycled air but I don't think that's what'll happen if there's proper air exchange.
 
Necere said:
New minimalist 30L concept, with novel-ish intake design:

Click to expand...

Necere said:
While I'm at it, here's a 30-something liter ATX concept I did a little while back:



Those are dual 180mm fans in front.
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Interesting designs.

I like the aesthetics of the mATX case, but the concept of 30L ATX with 2x180MM fans is far more interesting to me.. which is unfortunate considering the purpose of this thread. :p
 
What size are the front fans in the first monolithic model with the side intake slots? Dual 140s? There are more 140 mm fans to choose from than 180s, as evidenced by discussions between TJ08-E owners.
 
Qrash said:
What size are the front fans in the first monolithic model with the side intake slots? Dual 140s?
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Yes, dual 140mm. The 180s only work on the ATX concept because of the extra height. It's also short-depth (~355mm) to keep the volume down, but that would limit front rad+long GPU builds. The mATX concept by comparison is 400mm deep, partly due to the baffled front intake.


More renders of the mATX in silver:

 
Does the front section on the mATX model open? Can you show us renders of the interior? Looks like it could be a very quiet case.
 
Qrash said:
Does the front section on the mATX model open? Can you show us renders of the interior? Looks like it could be a very quiet case.
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Yeah, the idea is for the front panel to be removable for access to dust filters and fan installation:

 
On the mATX design, I really like the inner bevel on the intake, and I think it would look even better if you can't see where they end in the back like in the front.

rfXEQhp.png


Maybe move the side intakes forward so they line up with the front I/O?
 
vipz said:
On the mATX design, I really like the inner bevel on the intake, and I think it would look even better if you can't see where they end in the back like in the front.

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I have mixed feelings on it. It makes the window wider, which is kind of nice, and the I/O lining up with the vent isn't bad. On the other hand, the front panel is now less deep, which I feel detracts somewhat from the uniqueness of the design. Also, the depth serves a functional purpose: it forms a longer path for sound to travel, which means the sound bounces off the walls more times before exiting the chassis. With a bit of foam applied to the inside of the front panel, this could provide greater sound damping.
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Maybe shift the front ports back to line up with the side intake instead?
 
Qrash said:
Maybe shift the front ports back to line up with the side intake instead?
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I think at that point it's a little too far from the front - it's just sort of floating out mid-panel by itself:




I threw this concept together pretty quickly, so there are a lot of things that could probably use tweaking. The entire I/O was just copy+pasted from another file as is. I pretty much just want to get some feedback to see if this seems like a direction I should pursue. We have a number of concepts on the table for a ~30L design alone, so I'd like to get an idea of which style(s) people prefer.
 
Yeah, I thought that might be the result. I think centering the row of ports between the very front edge of the case and the frontmost point of the side intake slot would be best.

Thanks so much for sharing your ideas with us and considering our suggestions.
 
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Vittra said:
I like the aesthetics of the mATX case, but the concept of 30L ATX with 2x180MM fans is far more interesting to me.. which is unfortunate considering the purpose of this thread. :p
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I completely tunnelvisioned after seeing that first one and read over the ATX support :eek:

Necere, mind sharing more about that design internally ?
 
Necere said:
I have mixed feelings on it. It makes the window wider, which is kind of nice, and the I/O lining up with the vent isn't bad. On the other hand, the front panel is now less deep, which I feel detracts somewhat from the uniqueness of the design. Also, the depth serves a functional purpose: it forms a longer path for sound to travel, which means the sound bounces off the walls more times before exiting the chassis. With a bit of foam applied to the inside of the front panel, this could provide greater sound damping.
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This angle seems to make the original design look more awkward. I'm also not a huge fan of the window personally so I mspainted the window away and I agree with you about the intake-forward design being less unique.

 
I really like the new mATX design, the outside is just so damn clean. Maybe I overread that part, but it looks like it still has support for ATX boards, right?
 
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