Satya Nadella Admits Microsoft’s Phone Share Is Unsustainable

Merc1138 said:
But as it stands, the consumer and business markets have no room for a new phone OS that doesn't actually support anything(no matter the reason).
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Exactly. How is this even an issue? History has example after example after example of how platforms fail in market share when they don't have 3rd party support. And they don't get they support without market share. Even if the tiles UI was the big problem from the beginning for Windows phone it's not anymore.
 
heatlesssun said:
You do have to use this stuff to know what's there. There's tons of criticism of Windows 10 and privacy issues, very little discussion of what is there. I do use this stuff and I understand the privacy concerns. But why be concerned about the privacy of Google Now and use Gmail or GDrive?
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Does GMail or GDrive use your GPS to datamine where you go and sell that info to the highest bidder? You're really this obtuse?

W10 you can turn Cortana off...but all your local search strings are still CC'd to Microsoft anyway. I presume you cannot turn Cortana off in any meaningful way in Windows Phone as you can't turn the datamining off, by design, in W10 search.
 
heatlesssun said:
Exactly. How is this even an issue? History has example after example after example of how platforms fail in market share when they don't have 3rd party support. And they don't get they support without market share. Even if the tiles UI was the big problem from the beginning for Windows phone it's not anymore.
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MS needs to build a lot of sub $200 phones and run promotions for this stuff.
 
Skripka said:
Does GMail or GDrive use your GPS to datamine where you go and sell that info to the highest bidder? You're really this obtuse?
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Not sure what the point is there. I was simply pointing out that if on uses these features they are sharing personal data with a 3rd party. And there's no one here that can say with definitive proof exactly how that data is being handled. That's I think most of this privacy debate about Windows 10 is a farce. The average computer user of today is sharing their personal data with someone and no one really knows exactly how it's being handled.

Skripka said:
W10 you can turn Cortana off...but all your local search strings are still CC'd to Microsoft anyway.
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There's no proof of this. Again, all I am saying is that people are in a raging fit over something very specific with now proof and there's any other number of things to be in a raging fit over with no proof.

What's really sad about the Windows 10 privacy debate is the utter thoughtlessness of it. Countless millions have been sharing data with 3rd parties for many years now. Yet somehow all that can now be ignored and not used. Only Windows 10 "forces" people to share data because it's in the DNA of PC OS. Because PC OSes were always consider a safe haven. There's so much twisting of reality and lack of truth in the Windows 10 debate that it's really not even worth arguing anymore.

Here's the truth. Unless you live under a rock, you've shared personal information with a 3rd party and you really have now idea how it's being used. I've been working in risk management at a mega bank for nearly a decade now. I've began to accept that the notion of privacy that some purport around here is more fanciful than Peter Pan.

That's not excuse for Microsoft or Windows 10. Just a friendly reminder that for most folks and privacy, Windows 10 is unlikely the thing you should be concerned about most, whether you use it or not.

Skripka said:
I presume you cannot turn Cortana off in any meaningful way in Windows Phone as you can't turn the datamining off, by design, in W10 search.
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So you know this for a fact and also know for a fact that it can be done so with Google Now?
 
Trimlock said:
MS needs to build a lot of sub $200 phones and run promotions for this stuff.
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They have done that strategy and it's not worked. Microsoft best shot at phones at this point I think is more or less what they are doing.

1. Get Windows 10 market share up as fast as possible. I know that this pisses some off and I understand why. I'm simply pointing out that the business strategy makes sense given that Microsoft is in no realistic danger of losing desktop share due to the tactic.

2. Get developers on board with universal apps due to large Windows 10 market share. Yes most of that will be on the desktop. That's not a bad place to expand where the app makes sense.

3. Produce an x86 Surface Phone. Not saying that everyone will want one but it will be significantly different from the competition in a significant way.

Not at all keys to success but at least the first two have to happen to have a chance.
 
DPI said:
I like how people assume Microsoft is even *trying*, because clearly they are not. Or they would've already jettisoned that hideous tile interface. And they would be delivering first party apps that are compelling and showcase just how "powerful" the framework is as they claim in press releases, and they would be doing more than just "me too" features that ape Android and iPhone. Me-too doesn't cut it when you're that far behind, you need revolutionary or you don't exist.
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First, you say you cannot do me to and then you want them to do a me too interface. :rolleyes: No one is fooled about where your loyalties lie.
 
heatlesssun said:
They have done that strategy and it's not worked. Microsoft best shot at phones at this point I think is more or less what they are doing.

1. Get Windows 10 market share up as fast as possible. I know that this pisses some off and I understand why. I'm simply pointing out that the business strategy makes sense given that Microsoft is in no realistic danger of losing desktop share due to the tactic.

2. Get developers on board with universal apps due to large Windows 10 market share. Yes most of that will be on the desktop. That's not a bad place to expand where the app makes sense.

3. Produce an x86 Surface Phone. Not saying that everyone will want one but it will be significantly different from the competition in a significant way.

Not at all keys to success but at least the first two have to happen to have a chance.
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They haven't done it before. MS doesn't promote anything other than their most expensive options and they certainly don't promote their better OEM's low-end offerings either. Most people see these cheaper MS phones and think their experience sucks so they don't bother.

But I'll have to say, while I lost WP and their low end offerings are pretty damn good especially for the money, I'm done with them. If they release a Surface phone I will for sure jump on it.
 
heatlesssun said:
They have done that strategy and it's not worked. Microsoft best shot at phones at this point I think is more or less what they are doing.

1. Get Windows 10 market share up as fast as possible. I know that this pisses some off and I understand why. I'm simply pointing out that the business strategy makes sense given that Microsoft is in no realistic danger of losing desktop share due to the tactic.

2. Get developers on board with universal apps due to large Windows 10 market share. Yes most of that will be on the desktop. That's not a bad place to expand where the app makes sense.

3. Produce an x86 Surface Phone. Not saying that everyone will want one but it will be significantly different from the competition in a significant way.

Not at all keys to success but at least the first two have to happen to have a chance.
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I agree that MS's best shot at fixing their mobile situation is by integration into Desktops/Tablets. Universal Apps being the cornerstone of the endeavor.

I don't think a x86 phone is an answer. If anything a stop gap measure which is helping their tablets but only because hardware is getting small enough to do so. Waiting for tech and vendors to go even smaller would be a waste of resource imo.

Universal Apps is a good idea I just think like Edge not completely baked which could present a reputation problem before it has time to be a proper solution. I do think MS chooses to ignore how their software is used in a lot of cases so vendors then start locking people into old proprietary crap. Printers, drivers and software is a good example, most vendors have packages with work around (whether proper or not) that Universal Apps won't work for. They really need to expand what the apps can do to be viable otherwise vendors will just continue to force use of x86.

They just need more app vendors to support it, which obviously is a chicken/egg problem. I just got a new phone and seriously considered windows but decided while I primarily use standard apps its the convenience of having a well supported platform that won me over... That museum you walk into has a mobile app but 99% of the time only android/ios etc.

One HUGE not baked enough situation that will hurt them is App Store support for Enterprises. Right now the support is basically; use the store to buy software as an enterprise and side-load+deploy said purchased software through another means. Practically NO decent/worthwhile integration with their own deployment product other then wizards to help the side-loading. IMO they should have at least on the UI front integrated the Win10 store with enterprise deployment and management tools.

So now yet AGAIN we are forced with trying to force 2 UIs on to our users to get them to do something new (that MS really wants us to do). Oh go to the windows store to get public apps, THEN go to this other app to install enterprise app. How hard would it have been to allow integration of MS's OWN deployment to directly into the UI of the window store??? user opens store clicks on app, if enterprise the deployment client kicks in the background and installs all the while looking the same to the user? That would add immensely to user buy in AND help us IT deployment folk.

One Edge feature that I was greatly impressed and delighted to see was the ability to flag sites/URLs to use IE11 via enterprise mode. This is an idea MS should be doing MORE to allow enterprises bridge the old vs new tech within the company. For Win10 we are hoping to use Edge as primary browser because of this feature. We were excited that MS would make the user experience of change easier to manage, otherwise the business just says forget it use the old browser (until too late and we have to rush a project to implement new tech).

Then they sorta shoot themselves in the foot and set Edge to not use the standard favorites location (or some at least merge) IE11 uses so the user/support experience becomes more complicated. In the end we are still seriously looking at a sync type solution but many companies will just disable edge because of the hassle with old, not to mention site compatibility.
 
DPI said:
Tell that to consumers that wrinkle their noses when they walk by that Fischer Price Metro UI on display anywhere.

Android UI is what Windows Mobile should've been. People want icons just like on Windows PC. Deal with it.
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Eh?
It's the other way around. The WP UI and this UX is far superior to Android and iOS. While I can agree that the perception of whether the UI & UX is good is somewhat relative, let me point to use of display real estate. Both Android and iOS waste huge amounts of display space on displaying the background. That's brilliant ... NOT!
 
Thuleman said:
Eh?
It's the other way around. The WP UI and this UX is far superior to Android and iOS. While I can agree that the perception of whether the UI & UX is good is somewhat relative, let me point to use of display real estate. Both Android and iOS waste huge amounts of display space on displaying the background. That's brilliant ... NOT!
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Android's icons are nice, you can make folders, which is neat. Having a background is nice... For my wife is fairly important actually.
 
Uvaman said:
Android's icons are nice, you can make folders, which is neat. Having a background is nice... For my wife is fairly important actually.
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drawers and transparent tiles are available in WP 8.1

Universal apps and easy iOS porting are strong steps forward, but dropping the android wrapper was a much larger step backwards. for 90+% of consumers, the only thing keeping them from trying a WP is the lack of an App(s).
 
Uvaman said:
Android's icons are nice, you can make folders, which is neat. Having a background is nice... For my wife is fairly important actually.
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I understand what you are saying and I don't disagree that it's super awesome for your wife that she can see some background image.

For a business user though the background image doesn't matter. Display real estate is extremely limited and shouldn't be taken up by fluff that adds no value. That's where the WP UI shines. Its using space most efficiently, and if someone wants to see a photo on the home screen that option is there, but it's not made mandatory.

Skripka said:
Does GMail or GDrive use your GPS to datamine where you go and sell that info to the highest bidder? You're really this obtuse?
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The answer is YES.
GMail does absolutely use location data to display ads.
 
Thuleman said:
Eh?
It's the other way around. The WP UI and this UX is far superior to Android and iOS. While I can agree that the perception of whether the UI & UX is good is somewhat relative, let me point to use of display real estate. Both Android and iOS waste huge amounts of display space on displaying the background. That's brilliant ... NOT!
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Sorry but if there's any UX that's guilty of wasted space, it's Metro. How is this even an argument? Monocolored tiles of negative space.

In any case the beauty of Android is you are able to change it to whatever look and style you want, kinda like Windows PC. Apple doesn't give that freedom, neither does Windows Phone.
 
ManofGod said:
First, you say you cannot do me to and then you want them to do a me too interface. :rolleyes: No one is fooled about where your loyalties lie.
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Selective reading again? I said me-too features, not UX.

In any case, useless fanboy bickering on both sides don't change the fundamental problem that MS needs something groundbreaking to get noticed in an entrenched mobile market. Metro isn't it, Metro apps are not it, Windows 10 on PC is not it because people don't give a shit about phone apps in the Windows Store.

They should've scrapped the whole mess 4 yrs ago and started over, I'm not sure what they can really do at this stage.
 
DPI said:
Windows 10 on PC is not it because people don't give a shit about phone apps in the Windows Store..
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I was thinking the same way till I installed Synology DS File, DS Photo etc in both Win 10 PC and Lumia 950. Both work great.

Though I am not sure that those are universal apps though they look almost the same.
 
I would say the possibility is certainly there. What I love about Apple is the integration of the eco-system. My phone, tablet, TV and computers can all interact with each other. I can do things on one that affects the others.

Google is very popular, but they don't have a viable operating system or hardware platform to tie it all in. I use a Chromebook and it is not a viable operating system.

Windows and Xbox One/360 however are fantastic platforms. And the "Glass" or whatever the interactive tablet mode is for Xbox is very interesting. I don't see why Microsoft can't tie this all together like Apple can. There is a huge market share potential there.
 
westrock2000 said:
I would say the possibility is certainly there. What I love about Apple is the integration of the eco-system.
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The cool integration of Win 10 Pc and Win 10 phone is Action/Notification center. If you removed notification from the phone it will automatically be removed from PC and vice versa. Very cool indeed.
 
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